[Oe List ...] A review of Charles Taylor's "The Secular Society"

[George Holcombe]

Great statement, John, did Ann tell that to you?

Anyway looking forward to the book.  

Good conversation.  Wesley's Quadrilateral keeps coming up (scripture, reason, tradition and experience), which Outler, our old prof., actually pulled that term together out of Wesley's works.  I sure hope more of our conversation leaks out to the wider world, I'm experiencing a crazy world, which seems to be dominated by bad science, horrible religion and an economic system crushing the political and the cultural.  Don't know if this can be finally called the economic, since the decision making, business models, and the extractive processes and consumerism appear to be really bad economics.  Is this "the Secular Society" or a transition to it?  Does humanity have to go nuts to move to another level.

George Holcombe
14900 Yellowleaf Tr.
Austin TX 78728
Mobile 512/252-2756
grholcombe at gmail.com

"Whatever the problem, community is the answer.  There is no power greater than a community discovering what it cares about."  Margaret Wheatley


On Jul 9, 2013, at 8:19 PM, jlepps at pc.jaring.my wrote:

> How could I stay out of this conversation???
> 
> There are at least three essays in my forthcoming book that address this issue. 2 are reviews of naive "theological" statements by Steven Hawking, and one is an essay on Faith. The latter is particularly pertinent here, since much of the controversy is about mis-understanding of language. Briefly, Faith seeks understanding, Faith seeks action, and Faith seeks expression. It's the expressions of faith that are sometimes confused with understandings of faith, and this leads to grossly flawed (and "unscientific") beliefs. It's as if one were to take Humpty Dumpty as a historical account rather than a mythological statement of profound truth!
> 
> Anyway the book is called "The Theology of Surprise: Exploring Life's Mysteries." It should be out around the first of August through Resurgence Publishing. Should be available through Amazon soon.
> 
> John
> 
> At 04:19 PM 7/9/2013, you wrote:
>> On Jul 9, 2013, at 3:49 PM, Herman Greene <hfgreenenc at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Now this is an incomplete response and there is much more to be said, including some positive things about Michael's approach. By the way, in some senses I am a religious naturalist, but along the lines of process theology. See 
>>> 
>>> Reenchantment without Supernaturalism: A Process Philosophy of Religion (Cornell Studies in the Philosophy of... by David Ray Griffin (Nov 16, 2000). In the process approach there's plenty of transcendence as well as immanence, and religious knowledge is not only what can be known through the five senses and logic. There are other ways of knowing.
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I think of myself as an avid scientist. What I believe is secondary and derivative of what I experience, with gratitude to the RS-I and Frank, Amy, Lyn, et al. I find myself thinking these days, "I don't believe in God, I have a God Hypothesis."
>> 
>> I observe in more ways than I can name a mystery, depth, and greatness in the world (and dozens of et ceteras that I'll lump under the category gracious and holy mystery) that come at me in the form of relationships and events, inside me and outside me. It's all sustaining and energizing, etc., etc.
>> 
>> My God hypothesis (for which read: narrative of what to expect) gives me eyes to see. My hypothesis is a narrative about trinitarian dynamics (limits, possibilities, freedom) and it has been uniformly and reliably predictive for over 40 years now. It's saved my life, one might say.
>> 
>> Rather than "do you believe in God?" I prefer to ask, "What are our images of God? Are they predictive of life experience? Do they give us eyes to see?" 
>> 
>> I toy with images of myself as contemplative or mystic or inveterate listener or ceaseless questioner. All of them, really, are about constantly, unobtrusively observing, testing my hypothesis, refining my images of the way life is, and looking again, to see if I can see more of what is there and what is real.
>> 
>> I think I'd better read Dowd, Griffin, and Brooks, to see what all the energy is about.
>> 
>> I go a bit berserk at the endless, mindless contraversy about conflict between religious belief and scientific knowledge.
>> 
>> David
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---
>> 
>> <149b35.jpg> 
>> 
>> 
>> David Dunn
>> 740 S Alton Way 9B
>> Denver, CO 80247
>> 720-314-5991
>> dmdunn1 at gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
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