[Dialogue] 2 questions about the other world in the midst of this world

Sun Apr 13 16:45:08 PDT 2025

I think Bud says about the turn to the world, “In so doing they decided to emphasize Cultural Studies over Religious Studies”. 

In my memory it had less to do with studies and more to do with strategy.  Joe Mathews came back from a world church meeting that declined to confirm the Order Ecumenical as an entity.  That and other dynamics led to a decision to shift from focusing on the local church as the change agent in history (a la HRN) to a direct facilitation method in the community, public and private sectors with LENS and then ICA Facilitation.  Along with the Global Demonstration Projects and the ‘whistle points,’ the ICA became a strategic attempt to create a consensus based societal direction.  Many of us took those methods and models into a variety of corporate, community and non-profit entities.

That in turn involved looking at the dynamics that created and sustained a context that was derived from RS-1 but expressed in non-theological language.  Formal Christian language and symbolism had become a restricting dynamic in addressing and engaging a wider audience.

My take anyway.  And apologies for the wordy rant in my previous response.  I get that way sometimes.

FWIW

Bill Schlesinger

From: Dialogue <dialogue-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net> On Behalf Of James Wiegel via Dialogue
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2025 1:25 PM
To: rev.bud at mac.com
Cc: James Wiegel <jfwiegel at yahoo.com>; Colleague Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>; Order Community <oe at wedgeblade.net>
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] 2 questions about the other world in the midst of this world

SO . . .looks like no one has a recording of "The Mys'try is Everywhere"  Would anyone be willing to SING it on zoom while I record?

SO . . . 2 people responded that we did indeed encounter / (re) discover /map the other world (the phenomena of mystery, consciousness, care and tranquility) in the midst of "this world".  

ANYONE ELSE??

As to Bud's question, see below some interweaving.

<rev.bud at mac.com <mailto:rev.bud at mac.com> > wrote:

Let me be clearer, if I can, of what I’m asking, which is in reference to Jim Wiegel’s question: "Did we actually encounter/(re)discover the other world in the midst of this world (the realities of mystery, consciousness, care and tranquillity as present in our lives and world) or did we just say that?”

I’m aware of a lot concerning the beginnings of the Order.  <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://youtu.be/TmUQj4_wKtE?si%3Dra_czWIN1uUzTsv9&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw3b9nAx2XaeuxYkE9zU_v9k> Jack Lewis hiring Joe Matthews to be an extraordinary lecturer for the Christian Faith and Life Community in Austin. The development of RSI around a Christian existentialism based on Bultmann, Tillich, and Bonhoeffer in the early 1950s.  I think you should include H. Richard Niebuhr . . .

  <https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/youtube.png> 

24 Joe Slicker Mathews Went Down to be with Jack Lewis

I’m aware of what we may call a ’turn to the church’ by part of the CFLC staff <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://youtu.be/wwSefTMgDH4?si%3Dvy28C99WlyVQNpme&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw3o5OMLgcdCp46vcrFUPkjC>  with part of them going off to Chicago <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://youtu.be/uIutSynAQV0?si%3DllE6EueDZd8Vg-qi&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw0vO5ByIaAWp7rACbTdn2jG>  in Easter 1962 to create E.I.  <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://youtu.be/qsGecqvnQqs?si%3DdJsgi_uw6MPnQPu3&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw2Fu9bCwIhJHYKQajI49pyx> I’m aware of the ’turn to the world’ in the 1970s. In so doing they decided to emphasize Cultural Studies over Religious Studies. 

  <https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/youtube.png> 

41 Joe Slicker Let Me Tell You a Little About Evanston

  <https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/youtube.png> 

42 Joe Slicker Who Went Up from Austin in that Truck%

  <https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/youtube.png> 

31 Joe Slicker In '62 We Got Run out of Austin

This was not a discontinuation of dependence upon an existentialist theology. Though the Order shunned Gene Marshall, he did not shun the thought of Bultmann, Tillich, and Bonhoeffer. I reference his writings where he develops their thought (https://www.realisticliving.org/koob/GreatParagraphs/)

It is even clearer his continued reliance on existentialism in his lecture on Consciousness:

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2d5zZB1e5A <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2d5zZB1e5A&t=403s> &t=403s)

But I lost contact with the Order and its thought basis after the ’turn to the world'. Was there further theological reflection beyond existentialism? If so, what form did it take?

I don't really know enough theology or philosophy in a formal or academic sense to answer your question.  Here are some possibilities.

What about this little talk about  <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://wedgeblade.net/gold_path/data/comd/100012.htm&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw3yq0bumSB7rYlIJuHCkTZ2> "The Barefoot Jesus"  

Untitled

I also attach a paper attributed to John Epps "The Jesus Principle" that may be helpful.

Peace,

Bud

On 12 Apr 2025, at 16:34, James Wiegel <jfwiegel at yahoo.com <mailto:jfwiegel at yahoo.com> > wrote:

Bud asked ( and Jim dodged) this question:  "How is the claim of "encountering another world” related to the Gospel?"

Anyone??

I am still hoping for a recording of “The Mys’try is Everywhere”

Anyone?

Jim Wiegel

“…the long work
of turning their lives
into a celebration
is not easy. Come and let us talk“. 

The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver

On Apr 12, 2025, at 8:15 AM, rev.bud at mac.com <mailto:rev.bud at mac.com>  wrote:

"How is the claim of "encountering another world” related to the Gospel?"

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