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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>I think Bud says about the turn to the world, “<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>In so doing they decided to emphasize Cultural Studies over Religious Studies”. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>In my memory it had less to do with studies and more to do with strategy. Joe Mathews came back from a world church meeting that declined to confirm the Order Ecumenical as an entity. That and other dynamics led to a decision to shift from focusing on the local church as the change agent in history (a la HRN) to a direct facilitation method in the community, public and private sectors with LENS and then ICA Facilitation. Along with the Global Demonstration Projects and the ‘whistle points,’ the ICA became a strategic attempt to create a consensus based societal direction. Many of us took those methods and models into a variety of corporate, community and non-profit entities.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>That in turn involved looking at the dynamics that created and sustained a context that was derived from RS-1 but expressed in non-theological language. Formal Christian language and symbolism had become a restricting dynamic in addressing and engaging a wider audience.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>My take anyway. And apologies for the wordy rant in my previous response. I get that way sometimes.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>FWIW<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Bill Schlesinger<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Dialogue <dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> <b>On Behalf Of </b>James Wiegel via Dialogue<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, April 13, 2025 1:25 PM<br><b>To:</b> rev.bud@mac.com<br><b>Cc:</b> James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com>; Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Order Community <oe@wedgeblade.net><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Dialogue] 2 questions about the other world in the midst of this world<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>SO . . .looks like no one has a recording of "The Mys'try is Everywhere" Would anyone be willing to SING it on zoom while I record?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>SO . . . 2 people responded that we did indeed encounter / (re) discover /map the other world (the phenomena of mystery, consciousness, care and tranquility) in the midst of "this world". <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>ANYONE ELSE??<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>As to Bud's question, see below some interweaving.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><<a href="mailto:rev.bud@mac.com">rev.bud@mac.com</a>> wrote:</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div id="ydp5fbe1f42yahoo_quoted_4725343228"><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div id=ydp5fbe1f42yiv4562258622><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>Let me be clearer, if I can, of what I’m asking, which is in reference to Jim Wiegel’s question: "Did we actually encounter/(re)discover the other world in the midst of this world (the realities of mystery, consciousness, care and tranquillity as present in our lives and world) or did we just say that?”</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>I’m aware of a lot concerning the beginnings of the Order. </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><a href="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://youtu.be/TmUQj4_wKtE?si%3Dra_czWIN1uUzTsv9&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw3b9nAx2XaeuxYkE9zU_v9k"><span style='color:#26282A'>Jack Lewis hiring Joe Matthews</span></a><span style='color:#26282A'> to be an extraordinary lecturer for the Christian Faith and Life Community in Austin. The development of RSI around a Christian existentialism based on Bultmann, Tillich, and Bonhoeffer in the early 1950s. </span><span style='color:#9C005C'> I think you should include H. Richard Niebuhr . . .</span><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="ydp8de7ee8fenhancr_card_5015285043"><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style='max-width:300.0pt'><tr><td width=400 style='width:300.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'><table class=MsoNormalTable border=1 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style='max-width:300.0pt;border:solid #E0E4E9 1.0pt'><tr style='height:105.0pt'><td valign=top style='border:none;background:black;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;height:105.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:rect id="_x0000_s1026" style='position:absolute;margin-left:0;margin-top:0;width:297pt;height:131.25pt;z-index:251654144' fillcolor="black" stroked="f">
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</v:rect><![endif]--><![if !vml]><span style='mso-ignore:vglayout;position:absolute;z-index:251657216;margin-left:7px;margin-top:319px;width:499px;height:223px'><img width=399 height=178 style='width:4.1583in;height:1.8583in' src="cid:image010.png@01DBAC9B.CBDD7C00" alt="Text Box:
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<![if !mso]><table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width="100%"><tr><td><![endif]><div><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=3 cellpadding=0 width="100%" style='width:100.0%;min-height: 175px'><tr><td valign=top style='padding:11.25pt 0in 0in 11.25pt'></td><td valign=top style='padding:11.25pt 11.25pt 0in 0in'></td></tr></table><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><![if !mso]></td></tr></table><![endif]></v:textbox>
</v:rect><![endif]--><![if !vml]><span style='mso-ignore:vglayout;position:absolute;z-index:251659264;margin-left:7px;margin-top:387px;width:499px;height:222px'><img width=399 height=178 style='width:4.1583in;height:1.85in' src="cid:image012.png@01DBAC9B.CBDD7C00" alt="Text Box:
" v:shapes="_x0000_s1031"></span><![endif]><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table></td></tr><tr><td style='border:none;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;border-radius:0 0 0 2px'><div align=center><table class=MsoNormalTable border=1 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style='max-width:300.0pt;background:white;border:none;border-top:solid #E0E4E9 1.0pt;border-radius:0 0 2px 2px;z-index:2'><tr><td valign=top style='border:none;padding:12.0pt 0in 12.0pt 9.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><img border=0 height=36 style='height:.375in' id="_x0000_i1027" src="https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/youtube.png"><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width="99%" style='width:99.0%;border:none;padding:9.0pt .25in 12.0pt 9.0pt;border-radius:0 0 2px 0'><h2 style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:4.5pt;margin-left:0in;line-height:14.25pt'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#1D2228'>42 Joe Slicker Who Went Up from Austin in that Truck</span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#1D2228'>%</span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#1D2228'><o:p></o:p></span></h2></td></tr></table></div></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="ydp6f94f169enhancr_card_5478403859"><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style='max-width:300.0pt'><tr><td width=400 style='width:300.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'><table class=MsoNormalTable border=1 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style='max-width:300.0pt;border:solid #E0E4E9 1.0pt'><tr style='height:105.0pt'><td valign=top style='border:none;background:black;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;height:105.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:rect id="_x0000_s1032" style='position:absolute;margin-left:0;margin-top:0;width:297pt;height:131.25pt;z-index:251660288' fillcolor="black" stroked="f">
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<![if !mso]><table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width="100%"><tr><td><![endif]><div><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=3 cellpadding=0 width="100%" style='width:100.0%;min-height: 175px'><tr><td valign=top style='padding:11.25pt 0in 0in 11.25pt'></td><td valign=top style='padding:11.25pt 11.25pt 0in 0in'></td></tr></table><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><![if !mso]></td></tr></table><![endif]></v:textbox>
</v:rect><![endif]--><![if !vml]><span style='mso-ignore:vglayout;position:absolute;z-index:251661312;margin-left:7px;margin-top:454px;width:499px;height:223px'><img width=399 height=178 style='width:4.1583in;height:1.8583in' src="cid:image010.png@01DBAC9B.CBDD7C00" alt="Text Box:
" v:shapes="_x0000_s1033"></span><![endif]><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table></td></tr><tr><td style='border:none;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;border-radius:0 0 0 2px'><div align=center><table class=MsoNormalTable border=1 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style='max-width:300.0pt;background:white;border:none;border-top:solid #E0E4E9 1.0pt;border-radius:0 0 2px 2px;z-index:2'><tr><td valign=top style='border:none;padding:12.0pt 0in 12.0pt 9.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><img border=0 height=36 style='height:.375in' id="_x0000_i1028" src="https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/youtube.png"><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width="99%" style='width:99.0%;border:none;padding:9.0pt .25in 12.0pt 9.0pt;border-radius:0 0 2px 0'><h2 style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:4.5pt;margin-left:0in;line-height:14.25pt'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#1D2228'>31 Joe Slicker In '62 We Got Run out of Austin<o:p></o:p></span></h2></td></tr></table></div></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>This was not a discontinuation of dependence upon an existentialist theology. Though the Order shunned Gene Marshall, he did not shun the thought of Bultmann, Tillich, and Bonhoeffer. I reference his writings where he develops their thought (<a href="https://www.realisticliving.org/koob/GreatParagraphs/">https://www.realisticliving.org/koob/GreatParagraphs/</a>)<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>It is even clearer his continued reliance on existentialism in his lecture on Consciousness:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>(<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2d5zZB1e5A&t=403s">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2d5zZB1e5A&t=403s</a>)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>But I lost contact with the Order and its thought basis after the ’turn to the world'. Was there further theological reflection beyond existentialism? If so, what form did it take?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>I don't really know enough theology or philosophy in a formal or academic sense to answer your question. Here are some possibilities.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>What about this little talk about <a href="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://wedgeblade.net/gold_path/data/comd/100012.htm&source=gmail-imap&ust=1745177129000000&usg=AOvVaw3yq0bumSB7rYlIJuHCkTZ2">"The Barefoot Jesus"</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="ydpa97a06deenhancr_card_4694694916"><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style='max-width:300.0pt'><tr><td width=400 style='width:300.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'><table class=MsoNormalTable border=1 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style='max-width:300.0pt;border:solid #E0E4E9 1.0pt'><tr><td style='border:none;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'><table class=MsoNormalTable border=1 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style='max-width:300.0pt;background:white;border:none;border-top:solid #E0E4E9 1.0pt'><tr><td valign=top style='border:none;padding:12.0pt 0in 12.0pt 9.0pt'></td><td width="99%" style='width:99.0%;border:none;padding:9.0pt .25in 12.0pt 9.0pt;border-radius:0 0 2px 0'><h2 style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:4.5pt;margin-left:0in;line-height:14.25pt'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#1D2228'>Untitled<o:p></o:p></span></h2></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>I also attach a paper attributed to John Epps "The Jesus Principle" that may be helpful.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>Peace,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>Bud<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id=ydp5fbe1f42yiv4562258622yqt19637><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>On 12 Apr 2025, at 16:34, James Wiegel <<a href="mailto:jfwiegel@yahoo.com">jfwiegel@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div><div id=ydp5fbe1f42yiv4562258622yqt12736><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>Bud asked ( and Jim dodged) this question: "How is the claim of "encountering another world” related to the Gospel?"<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>Anyone??<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>I am still hoping for a recording of “The Mys’try is Everywhere”<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>Anyone?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>Jim Wiegel</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=ydp5fbe1f42yiv4562258622p1><span class=ydp5fbe1f42yiv4562258622s1><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>“…the long work</span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><br><span class=ydp5fbe1f42yiv4562258622s1>of turning their lives</span><br><span class=ydp5fbe1f42yiv4562258622s1>into a celebration</span><br><span class=ydp5fbe1f42yiv4562258622s1>is not easy. Come </span></span><span style='font-size:19.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>and let us talk“. </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=ydp5fbe1f42yiv4562258622p1><span style='font-size:19.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>On Apr 12, 2025, at 8:15 AM, <a href="mailto:rev.bud@mac.com">rev.bud@mac.com</a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>"How is the claim of "encountering another world” related to the Gospel?"<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>
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