[Dialogue] [Oe List ...] Trends in Theology

jlepps@pc.jaring.my via Dialogue dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net
Wed Jun 3 13:54:41 PDT 2015 

Just to input a little, here's an incredible 
YouTube video of Ricardo Semler from Brazil 
talking about the issue and what he's doing to 
address it -- in companies and schools and NGO's. 
It's worth considering in this context. Here it 
is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQxf9wviXyc

John

At 10:44 AM 6/1/2015, Jack Gilles via Dialogue wrote:
>Dear All,
>
>I agree that there are so many “good” things 
>happening at the local levels all over. That is 
>how history will change. I get frustrated at the 
>continuing  emphasis on military solutions for 
>ISIS and Iraq’s mess. No one is “training” 
>ISIS! They have a cause and a vision and are willing to die for it.
>
>That said, I have reached the conclusion that we 
>are in for a mighty correction via the climate 
>change. There will be unavoidable suffering all 
>over the world, and additional conflicts 
>(especially water). I never was a Casandra on 
>the climate, but have become so. I feel that 
>perhaps in our (old folks!) lifetime we will see 
>its front end affects. I guess all we can really 
>do is continue to work where we are, link with 
>others and do a whole lot of praying.
>
>Watching 60 Minutes last night I saw the 
>absolute blindness to the decreasing water 
>tables all over the world. This will take 
>decades of good rain to replenish. Everyone 
>knows it who are dealing with the CA water 
>crisis, but still they drill deeper and deeper. Madness!
>
>Jack
>
>>On Jun 1, 2015, at 10:54 AM, Sherwood Shankland 
>>via Dialogue 
>><<mailto:dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>>
>>I like it 
 tipping points
aligning our 
>>energies with the 100 key tipping points
which 
>>if we grasp whole systems are connected in ways 
>>that we may not now or ever know. For example: 
>>microfinance is now active in every country on 
>>the planet; and independently many locations 
>>are discovering that in pathways which lead 
>>sustainably out of poverty – microfinance is 
>>linked to efforts in health and education  “ 
>>so integrated community development efforts are 
>>rising, and a tipping point is facilitating 
>>partnerships that reflect those linkages. We 
>>each have to choose where to act or we will all 
>>just watch the daily news and deepen our 
>>despair. Actions speak loudly. Go for a tipping 
>>point, really. Best regards, Sherwood
>>
>>From: OE 
>>[<mailto:oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net>mailto:oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net] 
>>On Behalf Of Randy Williams via OE
>>Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 9:29 AM
>>To: George Holcombe
>>Cc: ICA/OE List Serves; ICA/OE List Serves
>>Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Trends in Theology
>>
>>George,
>>
>>One of the things you have described is the old 
>>perversion of "institutionalism," perhaps 
>>somewhat in new clothing. I think part of why 
>>this conversation continues to come up from 
>>time to time among us is the experience I 
>>expect most of us share of our love/hate 
>>relationship with the church. Joe's analogy 
>>that illuminated that realization for many of 
>>us was, "the church is a whore but she's my 
>>mother."  That still kind of holds it for me.
>>
>>By the way, I always thought that analogy 
>>originated with Joe, but I recently found it in 
>>the early writings of Dorothy Day, founder of 
>>the Catholic workers movement.  In her day she 
>>was a pretty feisty, salty old sister (not nun) 
>>who was later sainted by the church. We need a few more like her today.
>>
>>Randy
>>
>>Sent from my iPad
>>
>>
>>On Mar 27, 2015, at 9:59 AM, George Holcombe 
>>via OE <<mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>>>There seems to be several streams around the 
>>>same discussion (I’m guessing). It would be 
>>>wonderful if we could gather in the collegium 
>>>room at 3444 and have a go, or have Joe give 
>>>us a lecture, but I suppose this is as close as it gets in this digital age.
>>>
>>>As I remember it, we used the word church in 
>>>RS-1 to describe a dynamic, that part between 
>>>no longer and not yet where you bump into 
>>>people laying their life down to create the 
>>>new future.  Our institutional churches have 
>>>always had a struggle with that as have we 
>>>all, and both have used the symbols and story 
>>>surrounding our understanding of that dynamic for all sorts of purposes.
>>>
>>>Some think we failed (came apart at the 
>>>center), others think we’ve had some 
>>>conditional success, but then that happens when we missed the Bonhoeffer paper.
>>>
>>>I enjoy Borg, Crossan, and the research of 
>>>late into early Christianity (try getting 
>>>through Crossan’s The Birth of 
>>>Christianity), especially Borg’s description 
>>>of Jesus as a Jewish mystic in the prophetic 
>>>tradition, pushing the Judaism of his day into 
>>>the future, refusing the domination of 
>>>Rome.  Our local Presbyterian Seminary 
>>>professors seem to have some criticisms of 
>>>Borg, though I don’t understand them at 
>>>all.  Richard Rohr and others have done an 
>>>impressive job of pulling all this through our 
>>>daily lives in some creative ways.
>>>
>>>But all that aside, the suffering (in all its 
>>>forms) of the world seems to lose its footing 
>>>in all of this.  Religions and adherents (or 
>>>non adherents) attempting to justify their 
>>>various perspectives, which leaks over into 
>>>the political and economic discussions 
>>>(interesting how their efforts at 
>>>justification of their position follows much 
>>>the same lines as religions), put the majority 
>>>of their efforts into keeping afloat, while 
>>>pointing to their minimal efforts to address 
>>>the suffering of the world, as their raison 
>>>d’être. With a few notable exceptions, most 
>>>local churches (denominations, etc.) I know 
>>>anything about spend about 80-90% on 
>>>themselves and a little for some social/health 
>>>projects, not unlike Political and other 
>>>groups.  Much of this has been known for 
>>>awhile and more is coming to surface, which is 
>>>growing the sense of distrust and disgust with 
>>>institutions, but does not create an atmosphere for positive change.
>>>
>>>But amidst all of this the world is 
>>>suffering.  Climate change is having dramatic 
>>>effects, wealth inequality hardly describes 
>>>what the poor are experiencing, corporations 
>>>contribute as much to the destruction of the 
>>>environment as to wealth creation, wars are 
>>>endless.  Most if not all of us have intimate 
>>>experience with all of this.  The old hope if 
>>>things get bad enough, good will happen 
>>>doesn’t seem to be working.  It may be that 
>>>we should shift our conversation from the good 
>>>or bad old days to what we see are the tipping 
>>>points and what we’re trying where we are to 
>>>make the future happen.  In this digital age, 
>>>this may be one new/old way to create the new future.
>>>
>>>George Holcombe
>>>14900 Yellowleaf Tr.
>>>Austin, TX 78728
>>>Mobile 512/252-2756
>>><mailto:geowanda1 at me.com>geowanda1 at me.com
>>>
>>>
>>>"Whatever the problem, community is the 
>>>answer.  There is no power greater than a 
>>>community discovering what it cares about."  Margaret Wheatley
>>>
>>>>On Mar 23, 2015, at 7:14 PM, Judi White via 
>>>>OE <<mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>I do not go to a church. I remember the awe 
>>>>of high ritual. In the scotch Presbyterian 
>>>>and Eppiscopal Cathedral in my upbringing. 
>>>>The praying and preaching were not much. The 
>>>>music held it all. The daily office was a 
>>>>recovery of the awe...every day. RS1 sunk in 
>>>>after I learned to meditate and function in 
>>>>the world of spirit.  Before meditation life 
>>>>was a regular series of burnouts.By 
>>>>meditation I dont mean sitting in silence, 
>>>>although I do. I mean living mindfully. 
>>>>Social pioneering and the new church is pure 
>>>>spirit. The Divine and We are One. How to 
>>>>catalyze this experience in the lives of 
>>>>people incommunities is foundational to 
>>>>sustainable changes. Sometimes OE/ICA  got it right. Sometimes it doesn't.
>>>>
>>>>On Sunday, March 22, 2015, Karenbueno via OE 
>>>><<mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Thank you, Dharma!  I continue to attend my 
>>>>local United Methodist Church.  I find there 
>>>>people who are wanting to serve others, who 
>>>>relate to the Christian symbols, and who give 
>>>>of their time, talent, and finances to the 
>>>>work of the Christian church.  I may not 
>>>>agree with all of the theology I hear, but I 
>>>>know that this is an agency that is doing good work in the world.
>>>>
>>>>I am also active in the broader work of the 
>>>>United Methodist Women, who give generously 
>>>>for leadership training of women, and for 
>>>>mission projects around the world, for health 
>>>>care, feeding programs, child care, etc.
>>>>
>>>>I sometimes even hear sermons with great authenticity!
>>>>:-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Karen Bueno
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE 
>>>><<mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
>>>>To: Marilyn Crocker 
>>>><<mailto:marilyncrocker at juno.com>marilyncrocker at juno.com>; 
>>>>'Mary Kurian D'Souza' 
>>>><<mailto:marykdsouza at gmail.com>marykdsouza at gmail.com>; 
>>>>oe <<mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
>>>>Sent: Sun, Mar 22, 2015 9:05 am
>>>>Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Trends in Theology
>>>>Dear all,
>>>>
>>>>What a great opportunity it is to be able to 
>>>>talk about issues lie this with a community 
>>>>spread around the globe. My take on these 
>>>>issues - the only reason to go to church, 
>>>>temple, mosque etc is to be in dialogue with 
>>>>the symbol systems of the world that help us 
>>>>make sense of living. Dialogue goes both ways 
>>>>so we either get something from that 
>>>>experience or we give it new meaning. This is 
>>>>one avenue for social change. Of course, it 
>>>>is possible that the meaning building dynamic 
>>>>has move onto to other institutions. In which 
>>>>case, that's where we too would want to be.
>>>>
>>>>Although a life of service has an impact on 
>>>>those around us, symbols have their own 
>>>>unique role. When these are not rejuvenated, 
>>>>society develops monstrosities like ISIS, 
>>>>religious fanatics from the various faiths of the world etc.
>>>>
>>>>So the question for me is -  what are the 
>>>>symbols in our life and how do we let our love for life speak through them.
>>>>
>>>>Dharma
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Sunday, March 22, 2015 6:02 AM, Marilyn 
>>>>Crocker via OE <<mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Hi Dear Mary,
>>>>
>>>>I’m intrigued by your comment that “For 
>>>>Cyprian and myself RS1 was not as profound as 
>>>>the methods of participation etc. that were 
>>>>transmitted to us through the order/ICA.”
>>>>
>>>>For me our “methods of participation” 
>>>>were all about the life dynamics undergirding 
>>>>RSI, but couched in secular terms describing 
>>>>“the way life is” (TWLI) as we used to 
>>>>say – or limits, possibility, freedom, 
>>>>corporate resolve/action – or the consult 
>>>>method of  baseline situation, vision, 
>>>>contradictions, proposals, tactics and implementaries.
>>>>
>>>>My sense of that alignment of TWLI and our 
>>>>methods allowed me to keep serving in 
>>>>villages, local communities, schools, 
>>>>businesses, often at great personal cost.  I 
>>>>experienced deep and profound spiritual 
>>>>interpersonal connections in these 
>>>>interactions that allowed me to say, “I am 
>>>>being my personal mission or calling.”
>>>>
>>>>Now at 72, in retirement and needing to be a 
>>>>24/7 caregiver for my 87 year old husband who 
>>>>has progressive cognitive impairment, I still 
>>>>depend upon the fundamental understandings 
>>>>RSI gifted to me:  All is Good, the Past is 
>>>>Approved, All that I Am is Received, and the 
>>>>Future is Open – filled with radical Possibility.
>>>>
>>>>I respect your perspective and your hope to 
>>>>awaken in your children depth and 
>>>>mystery.  My experience is that although 
>>>>Christian liturgy and mindfulness practices 
>>>>help some, the raw living a life of selfless care is the best entry point.
>>>>
>>>>With love and respect,
>>>>
>>>>Marilyn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>From: OE 
>>>><mailto:[mailto:oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net]>[mailto:oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net] 
>>>>On Behalf Of Mary Kurian D'Souza via OE
>>>>Sent: Friday, March 20, 2015 10:43 PM
>>>>To: Rod Rippel
>>>>Cc: Colleague Dialogue; 
>>>><mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>oe at lists.wedgeblade.net
>>>>Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Trends in Theology
>>>>
>>>>Rod,
>>>>
>>>>Thank you for raising this question.
>>>>I have noticed that the recent celebrations 
>>>>of completed lives of our colleagues from the 
>>>>order used less of the rituals and more of poetry.
>>>>
>>>>I myself do not go to Church and am 
>>>>suffocated by sermons etc. that are not authentic.
>>>>
>>>>  Spirituality has become more alive. Am 
>>>> searching for a way to deepen this 
>>>> experience and to communicate to my children 
>>>> the depth and mystery that open up in life 
>>>> through practices such as through meditation and in being mindful.
>>>>
>>>>For Cyprian and myself RS1 was not as 
>>>>profound as the methods of participation etc. 
>>>>that were transmitted to us through the order/ICA
>>>>
>>>>With respect,
>>>>Mary
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 11:17 PM, Rod Rippel 
>>>>via Dialogue < 
>>>><mailto:dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>>>>Almost to a person colleagues of the Spirit 
>>>>Movement and the Order never referred to God 
>>>>or used the word 'God'  very much when 
>>>>talking about their lives or life 
>>>>decisions.  Instead they simply said, "I had 
>>>>RS-1 in...." or they would ask, "When was your RS-1?"
>>>>God-talk had already moved beyond theism to 
>>>>Event and poetry, and personal myth.
>>>>
>>>>What was your experience?
>>>>Rod R
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>list
>>>>
>>>><mailto:OE at lists.wedgeblade.net>OE at lists.wedgeblade.net
>>>>
>>>>http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Judi White
>>>><http://circlefireflydance.blogspot.com/>http://circlefireflydance.blogspot.com
>>>>http://porchtimechats.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>><mailto:OE at lists.wedgeblade.net>OE at lists.wedgeblade.net
>>>>http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
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