[Dialogue] Hmm, the Methodists weigh in, sounds like the "council of a lifetime"

[Bill Parker]

George,

I think your statement about the institutional church is an important insight that is easily overlooked in the midst of our frustration with the church. We make a mistake when we expect the institutional church to fulfill the criteria of the movemental church. That is not who or what they are. They have powers to contend with, budgets to meet, programs to conduct to keep their constituencies happy with the church as an institution. They are stationary in scope, intent, and form plus they often appear to be shallow, misguided and self serving. Yet, it is the source, the birthplace of the movemental religious. 

When you think about it, it is like a lot of us expect insurance companies to take responsibility for our healthcare system. That is not their job. That is the job of the society who wants to make sure people have access to healthcare. We can't expect that from a corporation, that is not what a corporation is.

Anyway.....just thinking,

Thanks,
Bill 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: George Holcombe 
  To: Colleague Dialogue 
  Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 10:31 AM
  Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Hmm, the Methodists weigh in,sounds like the "council of a lifetime"


  With Joe being a Methodist and Slicker a Presbyterian, we can look at ourselves as a movement that sprang from the institutional church, and there are others, even now.  I think Joe was right when he said that the institutional church was dead some years ago.  However, there is lots of life within the movemental church dynamic, and that includes all the religions, that springs from institutional religion.  What's interesting about the institutional expressions of religion is that they hold on to the symbols and scriptures, the history, etc. even when they misinterpret and misrepresent them.


  George Holcombe
  14900 Yellowleaf Tr.
  Austin, TX 78728
  Mobile 512/252-2756
  geowanda at earthlink.net


  Hope appeareth, but it is not your Hope—you do not have anything to do with it. It just appeareth. It comes as a stranger, as an alien—it just appeareth! You do not even know why you hope. How in the world could you hope when there is absolutely nothing to justify any hope?    ~Joseph W. Mathews








  On Jun 11, 2012, at 9:52 PM, R Williams wrote:


    In the midst of the turmoil the church is going through this is one of the most hopeful pieces I've seen.  The primary question for me is, can a church that has been so embedded in institutional structures for so long realistically be expected to reverse course and again become a movemental presence?

    Randy 

    "Listen to what is emerging from yourself to the course of being in the world; not to be supported by it, but to bring it to reality as it desires."
    -Martin Buber (adapted)

    From: James Wiegel <jfwiegel at yahoo.com>
    To: "oe at lists.wedgeblade.net" <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>; Colleague Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net> 
    Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 9:42 PM
    Subject: [Dialogue] Hmm, the Methodists weigh in, sounds like the "council of a lifetime"

          http://www.unitedmethodistreporter.com/2012/06/new-england-conference-delegation-no-common-identity-for-umc/

          Jim Wiegel

          If you hear a voice within you say 'you cannot paint,' then by all means paint, and that voice will be silenced. Vincent Van Gogh

          401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353-2401
          +1 623-363-3277 skype: jfredwiegel
          jfwiegel at yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com

          Upcoming public course opportunities:
          ToP Facilitation Methods, Sept 11-12, 2012
          ToP Strategic Planning, Oct 9-10, 2012
          The AZ Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday- Sept 7, 2012
          Facilitation Mastery : Our Mastering the Technology of Participation program is available in Phoenix in 2012-3. Program begins on Nov 14-16, 2012 
          See short video http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=55 and website for further details.

          --- On Mon, 6/11/12, Timothy Wegner <twegner at swbell.net> wrote:


            From: Timothy Wegner <twegner at swbell.net>
            Subject: [Dialogue] wedgeblade.net is back up.
            To: "oe at lists.wedgeblade.net" <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>, "dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net" <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
            Date: Monday, June 11, 2012, 10:24 AM


            Wedgeblade.net has actually been up since yesterday, but I just received a message from our host that their backup restore is complete. All is good. In fact, all is good even when the website is down! Tim----------Sent from AT&T's Wireless network using Mobile Email_______________________________________________Dialogue mailing listDialogue at lists.wedgeblade.nethttp://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net 

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