[Dialogue] [Oe List ...] WHAT IS THE RIGHT QUESTION THESE DAYS?
James Wiegel
jfwiegel at yahoo.com
Fri Jul 6 18:09:06 PDT 2012
Wow. Thanks, Jim. Someone on this list recommended Prophetic Imagination by Walter Bruggemann, and I found it as an ebook and downloaded and read it. He is very much in line with your perspective, and points to the experience of the prophets and their role and function as what we need. Since reading it, I have been saying to myself, we are moving into a prophetic moment.
Jim Wiegel
"The problem with quotes on the internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity." Abraham Lincoln
401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353-2401
+1 623-363-3277 skype: jfredwiegel
jfwiegel at yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com
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--- On Fri, 7/6/12, Jim Baumbach <wtw0bl at new.rr.com> wrote:
From: Jim Baumbach <wtw0bl at new.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] [Oe List ...] WHAT IS THE RIGHT QUESTION THESE DAYS?
To: "Colleague Dialogue" <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
Date: Friday, July 6, 2012, 4:55 PM
Certainly Boulding was aware of some of the ominous crises and saw
within them a potential for extinction of our human species. But
several other crises are also pending including global warming
(environmental change), unending wars, physical and chemical
pollution, droughts and starvation, declining water sources, etc.
My question was not intended to be supercilious but as a thought
regarding how fragile our own current existence is. Measured in a
geologic time frame, the total presence of human life is so
minuscule as to be in all probability essentially zero. Yet within
that time frame, human beings have been able to so threaten their
own existence that one can hardly imagine any other life form as
suicidal. Despite all of the dire scientific projections I, for
one, am unable to stop doing exactly what I, and many like me, have
been doing for decades and centuries--consuming the Earth's
resources in unsustainable amounts. And now the populations of
China and India are also anticipating doing what I am doing!
I don't see anything changing so profoundly that we will reverse our
present course. There are, of course, many band aid-type remedies
such as alternative energy sources but these only prolong this
process. Is it possible to change human nature to such an extent
that we, in Biblical tradition when Jonah proclaimed disaster to
Nineveh:
"...Then tidings reached the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his
throne, removed his robe, and covered himself with sackcloth, and
sat in ashes. And he made proclamation and published through
Nineveh, "By the decree of the king and his nobles: Let neither man
nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything; let them not feed, or
drink water, but let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and
let them cry mightily to God; yea, let every one turn from his evil
way and from the violence which is in his hands." (Jonah 3:3-8 RSV),
actually change our habits? Without this dramatic turn-around
possibly our question will be: "How do we prepare all human life to
face the inevitable extinction of our species?"
Jim Baumbach
On 7/6/2012 3:56 PM, James Wiegel
wrote:
I was just
reminded of an old, old, friend, Kenneth Boulding, and
a chapter from his book, The Meaning of the Twentieth
Century -- The Great Transition, published in 1964.
He described this "great transition" thusly:
The Great Transition (1964)
The twentieth century might be described as the crucial
central period in
the third great transition in the state of mankind. The
first great transition
was from the paleolithic to the neolithic about ten
thousand years ago, which
was characterized by the invention of agriculture, the
domestication of
animals, and the development of a settled life in
villages. The second great
transition, sometimes called the urban revolution, about
five thousand years
ago, was characterized by the development of political
power and the
centralization of the food surplus from agriculture in
cities. This is the
transition from neolithic agriculture to civilizations.
What is underway now is
a third great transition, in which civilization is
passing away and a new order
of society altogether, which I have sometimes called
post-civilized but which
perhaps deserves the name of the Developed Society, is
coming into being. The
twentieth century is the crucial midstage of this
transition which will
determine very largely whether it will be made
successful or not.
HERE ARE SOME PARAGRAPHS FROM THE FINAL CHAPTER. I
FOUND THEM ON THE GOLDEN PATHWAYS:
The fact
of the great transition is not in
dispute. Almost anyone in middle life today has simply
to look back to his own
childhood, or still more to the days of his
grandparents, to realize that we
are living in a world in which there is an enormous
rate of change. If anyone
in an advanced society today were to suddenly thrust
back into the world of
only a hundred years ago, he would feel utterly alien
and strange. A
considerable part of his vocabulary would be
meaningless to the people around
him. He would find it hard to adapt to the
inconveniences and to the restricted
life which would have to lead. He would feel indeed in
an alien society.
....................................................
I,
therefore, have no hesitation in
recommending the attitude toward the great transition
which I have described as
critical acceptance. There may be times when we wish
nostalgically that it had
never started, for then at least the danger that the
evolutionary experiment in
this part of the universe would be terminated would be
more remote. Now that
the transition is under way, however, there is no
going back on it. We must
learn to use its enormous potential for good rather
than for evil, and we must
learn to diminish and eventually eliminate the dangers
which are inherent in
it. If I had to sum up the situation in a sentence I
would say that the
situation has arisen because of the development of
certain methods of reality
testing applied to our images of nature. If we are to
ride out the transition
successfully we must apply these or similar methods
for reality testing to our
images of man and his society.
There
is in the world today an
"invisible college" of people in many different
countries and many
different cultures, who have this vision of the nature
of the transition through
which we are passing and who are determined to devote
their lives to
contributing toward its successful fulfillment.
Membership in this college is
consistent with many different philosophical,
religious, and political
positions. It is a college without a founder and
without a president, without
buildings and without organization. Its founding
members might have included a
Jesuit like Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, a humanist
like Aldous Huxley, a writer
of science fiction like H. G. Wells, and it might even
have given honorary
degrees to Adam Smith, Karl Marx, Pope John XXIII, and
even Khrushchev and John
F. Kennedy. Its living representatives are still a
pretty small group of
people. I think, however, that it is they who hold the
future of the world in their
hands or at least in their minds.
For
this invisible college I am an unashamed
propagandist and I confess without a blush that this
book is a tract. Our
precious little planet, this blue green cradle of life
with its rosy mantle, is
in one of the most critical stages of its whole
existence. It is in a position
of immense danger and immense potentiality. There are
no doubt many experiments
in evolution going on in different parts of this big
universe. But this happens
to be my planet and I am very much attached to it, and
I am desperately anxious
that this particular experiment should be a success.
If this be ethnocentrism,
then let me be ethnocentric! I am pretty sure,
however, that it will not be a
success unless something is done. There is danger both
of the bang of nuclear
detonation and of the whimper of exhausted
overpopulation, and either would
mean an end of the evolutionary process in these
parts. If man were merely
capable of destroying himself, one could perhaps bear
the thought. One could at
least console oneself with the thought of elementary
justice, that if man does
destroy himself it is his own silly fault. He is
captain, however, of a frai1
and delicate vessel, and in the course of destroying
himself he might easily
destroy the vessel that is, the planet which carries
him, with its immense
wealth and variety of evolutionary freight and
evolutionary potential. This
makes the dangers of the transition doubly
intolerable, and demands a desperate
effort to remove them.
Jim Wiegel
"The problem with quotes on the internet is that it is
hard to verify their authenticity." Abraham Lincoln
401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353-2401
+1 623-363-3277 skype: jfredwiegel
jfwiegel at yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com
Upcoming public course opportunities:
ToP Facilitation Methods, Sept 11-12, 2012
ToP Strategic Planning, Oct 9-10, 2012
The AZ Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday- Sept 7,
2012
Facilitation Mastery : Our Mastering the Technology of
Participation program is available in Phoenix in 2012-3.
Program begins on Nov 14-16, 2012
See short video
http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=55 and website
for further details.
--- On Fri, 7/6/12, R Williams <rcwmbw at yahoo.com>
wrote:
From: R Williams <rcwmbw at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] [Oe List ...] WHAT IS THE RIGHT
QUESTION THESE DAYS?
To: "Order Ecumenical Community"
<oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>, "Colleague Dialogue"
<dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
Date: Friday, July 6, 2012, 11:30 AM
Jim,
By "peace" I meant something more than
the absence of war. I suppose I meant
something like "with civility," " with mutual
respect," "acknowledging the dignity and worth
of all." This may be idealistic but without
it I am skeptical that we can continue. The
by-product of this kind of peace is
sustainability, so my statement may have been
a bit redundant.
I agree with Wayne up to a point. I
believe there is really one moral issue at a
time, but there must be many ways to describe
it and thus to articulate the question. With
the way issues are so inter-related, it's
difficult to talk about one without eventually
getting into most of the others, and probably
even more difficult to finally boil it down to
"the" underlying root/moral issue of the
time. I would have to say that the way we
articulated it in the 70's as the disparity
between the 85/15, or today maybe the 99/1,
isn't that far off base for today as well.
One thing I do feel fairly certain
about. Whereas in RS-1 days we asked, "Who am
I?" "What do I?" and "How be I?"--today I
would insist that the question, whatever it
is, is not an "I" question, but rather a "we"
question.
Randy
"Listen to what is emerging from yourself to
the course of being in the world; not to be
supported by it, but to bring it to reality as
it desires."
-Martin Buber (adapted)
From:
James Wiegel <jfwiegel at yahoo.com>
To:
Colleague Dialogue
<dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>;
Order Ecumenical Community
<oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
Sent:
Friday, July 6, 2012 12:33 PM
Subject:
[Oe List ...] WHAT IS THE RIGHT QUESTION
THESE DAYS?
WHAT IS THE RIGHT QUESTION THESE DAYS?
Over coffee, this morning, i recopied the
emails from this thread and tried to narrow
down to just the questions that were posed.
I think i missed an email that Lee Early was
responding to in his message.
A couple of reflections:
Randy, in yours, i was struggling with the
phrase "in peace", wondering, a bit like the
word "church" or "religious" what that might
point to that would seem true to life vs. sort
of an ideal future.
Wayne, your response that there may not be "a"
question, but many and we each have to figure
out our own for ourselves got me to reflecting
on the evident complicatedness of things in a
systemic or interconnected world. My auto
mechanic was explaining to me how to simply
fix the health care system in the US, and your
comment came up for me, and i said that is a
good idea, but i think we are looking too
often for simple silver bullet solutions when
thngs are actually much more complicated. And
that made sense to both of us and moved the
conversation on.
Jim Baumbach's question put me back on my
heels . "How do I get you to change your mind
and do what I think is right?" then, when in
linking it with Bill Parker's notion that none
of this is new, and why haven't we all woken
up? Got me thinking, at least on the liberal
or progressive side, whether the new religion
arising is the religion of human rights . . .
Progressives, at least, seem to hold these as
sacred and as a moral obligation to be
enforced.
I could go on, but my eggs are getting cold,
and the slice of cantelope from Judy's garden
is calling.
THE GIST AS I SEE IT
Mary Hampton: Enough, all ready, its too good
to miss and I am not ready to edit. Good
stuff, folks!
Ken Gilgren: why am I here? What am I doing?
How am I being? What quickens the current
action of my soul?
what was the question again?
Wayne Nelson: What are the pivotal moral
issues of our moment? I think there are
likely to be several. Of course there are
many, many but there are probably some major
ones. To reduce it to a single one makes it
too abstract and denies the obvious
complexity. We all have to name 'the moral
issue of our time.' There's not likely to be
one for everyone. It's a job we all have to
do.
Bill Parker: What are the warning signs of
the destruction and endangerment of the entire
human community? Then ask, what is the
underlying question to be addressed and how it
can be addressed. Why are people not being
awakened to the clear, obvious truth of our
crisis? Secondly, what methods must we develop
or employ to radically reveal this all
encompassing truth?
John Cock: My take: If it does not have
something like "on behalf of a transformed
Earth community" in the statement, it is the
WRONG right question, moral issue, or
vocation.
Lee Early: "Who is Tiger Woods?", What is his
mission? Can we re-answer the second
question? Mission, social pioneer, church,
college, league, crimson line and movement?
The answer to the question of mission will
carry the first of who. (At least here in the
West.) Sometimes the question of mission
changes. Sometimes by chance and sometimes on
purpose. What is our mission TODAY?
Randy Williams: In reflecting on the dialogue
around what is "the question," I realized we
really were assuming two questions. How may
"we" (all species) live together on this
planet in peace, in a way that secures life
for future generations? What is the new face,
form and mission of the "movement" (the
religious, the invisible college, the church
with a little"c," ) and what stories, style
and symbols will sustain it?
Jan Sanders: What are the key images of the
future of evolution?
Steve Harrington: You had to say it, eh?
What does it look like to be the Sensitive
& Responsive. To what concerns? where?
Karen Bueno: "How do we motivate the sensitive
and reponsive ones who understand that the
survival of the people of the earth and the
earth itself depends on our working together
to make that survival possible?" I like the
idea of striving for a T-shirt phrase, like
"Be one of those who dare to live the future
now.", as someone suggested.
David Walters: in the midst of a malaise of
helplessness and an established / controlling
economic and political elite, what can we do
to support and help to form the emerging
groups and movements (both the Tea Party and
the Occupy movement) to be both effective and
inclusive?
Jack Gilles: Given the stance that "History
rides on the back of the religious" that we
embodied and lived..... "Who are the
'religious' today, where would you look to
find them, what are the marks that tell you
so, and what might we share (and how) with
them so that they are empowered and
connected?". The "we" in the question should
refer to "those of us who are scattered" and
who will take seriously the answers.
Janice Ulangca: In this 50th year of EI/ICA,
some of the questions to live with:
Considering what we were/are/might be, what is
our calling? What are we called to
know/do/be? What are some of the important
partnerships the future needs?
Missed the name: What was Neibhur's line?
(and how do you spell his name?) Something
about the sensitive and something ones.
Nancy Lanphear: What is " MY GREAT WORK (IS)
WHERE MY OWN GREAT JOY INTERSECTS WITH EARTH'S
GREAT NEED" ....perhaps EARTH could be
stretched to all my relations, the universe,
life ....
Jan and Steve: Considering what we
were/are/might be, what is our calling? What
are we called to know/do/be?
Jan: What are some of the important
partnerships the future needs?
Jim Baumbach: "How do I get you to change
your mind and do what I think is right?"
Karen Bueno: "How are we to live together and
preserve this planet for the future?"
Jim Wiegel
Jfwiegel at yahoo.com
“One cannot live in the afternoon of life
according to the program of life’s morning;
for what was great in the morning will be of
little importance in the evening, and what in
the morning was true will at evening have
become a lie.” – Carl Jung
Partners in Participation Upcoming public
course opportunities:
ToP Facilitation Methods, Sept 11-12, 2012
ToP Strategic Planning, Oct 9-10, 2012
The AZ Community of Practice meets the 1st
Friday- Sept 7, 2012
Facilitation Mastery : Our Mastering the
Technology of Participation program is
available in Phoenix in 2012-3. Program begins
on Nov 14-16, 2012
See short video http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=55
and website for further details.
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