[Dialogue] And another . . .

Sat Dec 15 18:41:15 PST 2012

Cynthia Vance In
 light of Sandy Hook and other recent mass killings and football players
 on steroids killing women.   The women of the world need to TAKE OVER, 
pass laws to ban steroid injections for men, but instead inject estrogen
 into every male alive.  Let's get rid of testosterone-driven men.  No 
more killing, no more war, also no more uncontrolled (on steroids) men 
out of control.

Jim Wiegel

". . . In this whole world i don't know a more sly, more cunning, useful virtue than sheer dizzy pluck!"  The Odyssey A Modern Sequel.  Nikos Kazantzakis

401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353-2401

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--- On Sat, 12/15/12, James Wiegel <jfwiegel at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: James Wiegel <jfwiegel at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Dialogue] Another angle on the brainstorm . . .
To: "Colleague Dialogue" <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
Date: Saturday, December 15, 2012, 5:30 PM

Morgan Freeman's statement about these random shootings....

 "You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

 It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and 
watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall 
shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you kn

 ow the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would
 otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want 
to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. 
Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a 
horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

 CNN's article says 
that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second 
deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make 
one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of 
third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the 
shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on 
all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus
 on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen 
yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, 
you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day 
care center or a maternity ward next.

 You can help by 
forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at
 least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research 
instead of pointing to gun control as the problem."

Jim Wiegel

". . . In this whole world i don't know a more sly, more cunning, useful virtue than sheer dizzy pluck!"  The Odyssey A Modern Sequel.  Nikos Kazantzakis

401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353-2401

+1  623-363-3277  skype:  jfredwiegel

jfwiegel at yahoo.com   www.partnersinparticipation.com

Upcoming public course opportunities:

ToP  Facilitation Methods,      Feb 12-13, May 21-22, Sept 17-18, 2013

ToP Strategic Planning,   Nov 12-13, 2013

Facilitation Graphics,   March 19, 2013

The AZ Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday- Nov 2, 2012

Facilitation Mastery : Our Mastering the Technology of Participation program is available in Phoenix in 2012-3.  Program begins on Nov 14-16, 2012 

See short video http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=55 and website for further details.  

AICP Planners:  14.5 CM for all ToP courses

--- On Sat, 12/15/12, Marianna Bailey <wmbailey at charter.net> wrote:

From: Marianna Bailey <wmbailey at charter.net>
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Guns
To: "Colleague Dialogue" <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
Date: Saturday, December 15, 2012, 5:09 PM

That would be great to have 5,000 person (or more) discourse on creating safe communities. I'm wondering what would be a good "vision" question to start the conversation.
On Dec 15, 2012, at 5:20 PM, Wilson Priscilla wrote:
Does anyone know Carolyn J. Lukensmeyer...who founded and was the president of AmericaSpeaks. She is now Executive Director of the
 National Institute for Civil Discourse at the University of Arizona.AmericaSpeaks led a 5,000 person Town Meeting discourse in NYC when the plans first came out for rebuilding Ground Zero.I was a table facilitator...and quite impressed with the folks they managed to reach. Talking with her about a "national" sponsor might produce something. 
I think the conversation about needing ways to pull together TM type events in multiple locations makes sense.All of this after the continuing dialogue here...but it needs to go beyond that.Priscilla Wilson

On Dec 15, 2012, at 4:00 PM, Jack Gilles wrote:
Marianna,
TM would be good but you need a "national" sponsor. The World Cate process I think would be easier to do and for this
 might work better.

Jack

Sent from my iPad
On Dec 15, 2012, at 3:35 PM, Marianna Bailey <wmbailey at charter.net> wrote:

What about "Town Meetings" ? A 2 hour workshop designed for a community to solve the problem of guns in the community. We need to "brainstorm"  organizations that could sponsor the workshops.
Marianna
On Dec 15, 2012, at 4:15 PM, Jack Gilles wrote:

John,
I like your thinking and the tactics. Your "tiger" strategy really shifts the thinking. Perhaps having a traveling forum with justice department people, gun advocates, local law officials and a way for the local people to speak (tables of five or so) and present a question or suggestion from each table. Go to 10 or 15 locations. All of this telecast by PBS with call in and perhaps 'vote graphs' for affirming ideas. Keep it before the larger picture and audience. Affirm the second amendment, but stress safety, accountability and public health & safety.

Jack

Sent from my iPad
On Dec 15, 2012, at 2:34 PM, "jlepps at pc.jaring.my" <jlepps at pc.jaring.my> wrote:

Thanks, Lee, for starting this conversation, and for all the
contributions. Here's my two cents:

I. CONTEXT

I grew up in a home where guns were part of the normal possessions.
I've owned a BB, a 22, a 410, and a couple of 12-gage shotguns (though I
never was a hunter). Dad, my brother and I all participated in skeet
shooting as a hobby, and spent many hours loading shotgun shells for
re-use at the range. There was plenty of safety training, both at home
and through Boy Scouts. Then in my brief stint with the Army, I earned a
sharpshooter medal on the rifle range and learned a lot about the M-1
(major learning: don't point it at anything you don't intend to kill).

For the past 20+ years I have lived in Malaysia where it is a capital
offense to own a gun or a bullet, and people have been sent to the
gallows for the possession of a single bullet. Occasionally criminals
have been found to possess guns -- usually after they've been shot dead
by the police. Criminals still function, but usually with machetes.

So my personal relation to the issue has some ambiguity.

One other bit of context: We DID succeed with the smoking issue, and that
was QUITE a cultural transformation. It's not impossible.

II. IDEAS

In addition to the analysis recommended by Randy & Jack, it seems
to me some strategic thinking is in order, and a very appropriate way to
begin is with the Chinese strategem, "Lure the Tiger out of the
mountains." The insight is, if you go tiger hunting, don't do it
on the tiger's home turf. That's a strategy for getting eaten! You lure
the tiger onto your home turf. Put another way, make it an advantage for
the enemy to agree with you.

Of course identifying the tiger in this situation is complex. Is it the
NRA or gun-owners or the firearms industry? Probably all of the
above.

So in this case the "tiger bait" might be inviting a debate
around the theme of protecting your home & family. One of the
arguments from proponents of guns is to provide protection against
burglars & other intruders. The rational "hook" in the bait
would be to compare statistics of those who've wounded or killed burglars
vs those who've been accidentally killed or otherwise murdered with
abundant guns. I'm guessing that the statistics would be around 1,000 to
1. But rationality never convinces anyone, though it can disclose the
fallacy of an argument.

To this, we might add the proposition that all newly built homes are
required to have a burglar alarm system installed and connected to the
police station. Existing homes could be retro-fitted (with a tax
incentive.- similar to the solar energy incentive, this one creatively
named "Home Protection System." Think of the jobs!)

Another part of the strategy is to make it disadvantageous to oppose gun
control. That's what happened when schoolchildren began hassling parents
who were smokers. What if school curricula had a module that pointed out
the crudity and danger of guns? Then kids might, instead of  playing
gun-games, become advocates of no-gun games. (In addition to my
previously-mentioned firearm collection, I also had a couple of fine cap
pistols!)

In terms of regulation, perhaps there might be licenses for hunting
(already, but add a license for the gun(s) used); license for skeet
shooting, and a license for home protection. The latter would be issued
with the purchase of the gun, and a locked container to secure it with a
complicated combination.  Of course there needs to be a ban on
civilian ownership of assault weapons and multi-shot magazines. These
regulations simply make it more inconvenient for gun users to operate.

In addition to licenses, it might be interesting to require purchasers of
guns to be enrolled in a "citizen's militia" (the Constitution
says that is the basis for the right to bear arms) run by the NRA &
local police and conducting required training in safety in use of
firearms. The unit might even develop drill teams and perform at sports
events! Take a look at this as what a good drill team can look like:

http://sorisomail.com/email/16993/exibicao-de-banda-militar--um-espectaculo-imperdivel.html

Maybe that would make it easier for the "tigers" to agree.
Still it will take some doing -- maybe even some pilot projects (God
forbid!).

Anyway brainstorms are meant to generate ideas.

Of course the cries for increased mental health need to be implemented.
Those strategies are long range and necessary.

John                           

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Priscilla H WilsonPris at TeamTechPress.com913-432-2107www.teamtechpress.com

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