I've 'enjoyed' Susan's anti-Hillary diatribes, especially her cartoon. Not that I agree with her biases--I actually voted for Hillary (without holding my nose too hard).But I'm stunned that so many of my colleagues took the bait she threw at us--and jumped all over her.Her cartoon, for example, articulates the entrenched "meme" or biased and emotionally charged view of a large segment of voters who have voted or will vote without reference to FBI Director Comey's last-second letter of "reprieve" for Hillary.I predict that this letter won't change Susan's biases at all. She's totally stuck in "their" popular anti-Hillary meme, and nothing you or I or Mr. Comey can say will change her mind.So what does this mean for all of us? Can we even relate to people--relatives, "friends", workmates, or (goddess help us) even old "colleagues"--who have bought the same political malarkey Susan has swallowed whole?How can we make any sense of how Susan can be so misguided, given the depth of our common understanding of the way life is?Or, for that matter, how can we embrace people with whom we have developed personal trust and mutual esteem, once we learn they're "living on a different political planet"?Surely this is the moment for the 'transestablishment' dynamic. We need to speak to the hidden suffering of those who are angry and fearful and feel disempowered by their loss of economic, political, and cultural status as once-prosperous members of the middle class. And also to the segment of the electorate who feels Hillary is WAY too Establishment, is in bed with Wall Street and Corporate America, and has used the political system to disenfranchise them and dismiss their candidate.Finally, it has become obvious that the political process may come to an electoral outcome, but that does not allow for healing or reconciliation between warring political parties, who will feel obliged to take the political battle to the next level--the halls of Congress.Acknowledging and honoring the humanness of those we see as "our" political "enemies"--and eliciting their inclusive wisdom and insights into profound humanness--can be challenging as long as we take their bait and reflect their hate. We need to get WAY beyond this political impasse.MarshallBTW, American political cartoons in the 19th century were historically WAY nastier than anything Susan has sent us. But their distorted perspectives made political points and served an important function: they dramatized the way "ordinary" people perceived political shenanigans. FBI: Review of new emails doesn't change conclusion on Clinton | | | | | | | | | | | FBI: Review of new emails doesn't change conclusion on Clinton By Eric Bradner, CNN FBI Director James Comey told lawmakers Sunday the agency hasn't changed its opinion that Hillary Clinton sh... | | | |
Every time I read one of these condescending “poor misguided Susan” missives, I have to chuckle at the hypocrisy. All of you are guilty of everything of which you each have accused me. The only difference is that I’m not tied to ANY candidate, and you all have drunk the Hillary koolaid. Susan Susan Fertig-Dykes (personal email account) And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought . Isaiah 58:11 Protect against email address harvesting: Use "BCC" when sending to multiple addresses; delete senders’ E-Mail addresses when forwarding. NOTE: I won’t be offended if you ask me to remove you from my emails. From: OE [mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of W. J. via OE Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2016 6:20 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: [Oe List ...] more news for Susan I've 'enjoyed' Susan's anti-Hillary diatribes, especially her cartoon. Not that I agree with her biases--I actually voted for Hillary (without holding my nose too hard). But I'm stunned that so many of my colleagues took the bait she threw at us--and jumped all over her. Her cartoon, for example, articulates the entrenched "meme" or biased and emotionally charged view of a large segment of voters who have voted or will vote without reference to FBI Director Comey's last-second letter of "reprieve" for Hillary. I predict that this letter won't change Susan's biases at all. She's totally stuck in "their" popular anti-Hillary meme, and nothing you or I or Mr. Comey can say will change her mind. So what does this mean for all of us? Can we even relate to people--relatives, "friends", workmates, or (goddess help us) even old "colleagues"--who have bought the same political malarkey Susan has swallowed whole? How can we make any sense of how Susan can be so misguided, given the depth of our common understanding of the way life is? Or, for that matter, how can we embrace people with whom we have developed personal trust and mutual esteem, once we learn they're "living on a different political planet"? Surely this is the moment for the 'transestablishment' dynamic. We need to speak to the hidden suffering of those who are angry and fearful and feel disempowered by their loss of economic, political, and cultural status as once-prosperous members of the middle class. And also to the segment of the electorate who feels Hillary is WAY too Establishment, is in bed with Wall Street and Corporate America, and has used the political system to disenfranchise them and dismiss their candidate. Finally, it has become obvious that the political process may come to an electoral outcome, but that does not allow for healing or reconciliation between warring political parties, who will feel obliged to take the political battle to the next level--the halls of Congress. Acknowledging and honoring the humanness of those we see as "our" political "enemies"--and eliciting their inclusive wisdom and insights into profound humanness--can be challenging as long as we take their bait and reflect their hate. We need to get WAY beyond this political impasse. Marshall BTW, American political cartoons in the 19th century were historically WAY nastier than anything Susan has sent us. But their distorted perspectives made political points and served an important function: they dramatized the way "ordinary" people perceived political shenanigans. FBI: Review of new emails doesn't change conclusion on Clinton<http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/06/politics/comey-tells-congress-fbi-has-not-changed-conclusions/index.html> [cid:image001.jpg@01D23867.FC408740] [Text Box:] [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/cnn.png] FBI: Review of new emails doesn't change conclusion on Clinton By Eric Bradner, CNN FBI Director James Comey told lawmakers Sunday the agency hasn't changed its opinion that Hillary Clinton sh...
The disrespectful comments from both sides of the political spectrum about people with different views has compelled me to leave this list. I will not participate in negative energy and disrespect. Jo Nelson
On Nov 6, 2016, at 7:57 PM, Susan Fertig via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Every time I read one of these condescending “poor misguided Susan” missives, I have to chuckle at the hypocrisy. All of you are guilty of everything of which you each have accused me. The only difference is that I’m not tied to ANY candidate, and you all have drunk the Hillary koolaid.
Susan
Susan Fertig-Dykes (personal email account)
And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought . Isaiah 58:11
Protect against email address harvesting: Use "BCC" when sending to multiple addresses; delete senders’ E-Mail addresses when forwarding.
NOTE: I won’t be offended if you ask me to remove you from my emails.
From: OE [mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net>] On Behalf Of W. J. via OE Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2016 6:20 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>>; Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>> Subject: [Oe List ...] more news for Susan
I've 'enjoyed' Susan's anti-Hillary diatribes, especially her cartoon. Not that I agree with her biases--I actually voted for Hillary (without holding my nose too hard). But I'm stunned that so many of my colleagues took the bait she threw at us--and jumped all over her. Her cartoon, for example, articulates the entrenched "meme" or biased and emotionally charged view of a large segment of voters who have voted or will vote without reference to FBI Director Comey's last-second letter of "reprieve" for Hillary. I predict that this letter won't change Susan's biases at all. She's totally stuck in "their" popular anti-Hillary meme, and nothing you or I or Mr. Comey can say will change her mind. So what does this mean for all of us? Can we even relate to people--relatives, "friends", workmates, or (goddess help us) even old "colleagues"--who have bought the same political malarkey Susan has swallowed whole? How can we make any sense of how Susan can be so misguided, given the depth of our common understanding of the way life is? Or, for that matter, how can we embrace people with whom we have developed personal trust and mutual esteem, once we learn they're "living on a different political planet"? Surely this is the moment for the 'transestablishment' dynamic. We need to speak to the hidden suffering of those who are angry and fearful and feel disempowered by their loss of economic, political, and cultural status as once-prosperous members of the middle class. And also to the segment of the electorate who feels Hillary is WAY too Establishment, is in bed with Wall Street and Corporate America, and has used the political system to disenfranchise them and dismiss their candidate. Finally, it has become obvious that the political process may come to an electoral outcome, but that does not allow for healing or reconciliation between warring political parties, who will feel obliged to take the political battle to the next level--the halls of Congress. Acknowledging and honoring the humanness of those we see as "our" political "enemies"--and eliciting their inclusive wisdom and insights into profound humanness--can be challenging as long as we take their bait and reflect their hate. We need to get WAY beyond this political impasse. Marshall BTW, American political cartoons in the 19th century were historically WAY nastier than anything Susan has sent us. But their distorted perspectives made political points and served an important function: they dramatized the way "ordinary" people perceived political shenanigans.
FBI: Review of new emails doesn't change conclusion on Clinton <http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/06/politics/comey-tells-congress-fbi-has-not-changed-conclusions/index.html>
<image001.jpg>
<image002.png>
FBI: Review of new emails doesn't change conclusion on Clinton By Eric Bradner, CNN FBI Director James Comey told lawmakers Sunday the agency hasn't changed its opinion that Hillary Clinton sh...
_______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net> -- Jo Nelson, CPF, CTF <jnelson@ica-associates.ca> Certified Professional Facilitator and ICA Certified ToP™ Facilitator ICA Associates, Inc. 401 Richmond Street West, Suite #405, Toronto, Canada. M5V 3A8
Ph. 1 416-691-2316, x2230 Toll-free 1 877-691-1422 Fax 1 416-691-2491 Website http://ica-associates.ca Cellphone 647 233 6910 Skype “jofacilitator” Vendor of Record: Government of Ontario Learning and Training Services #OSS00536903 Vendor of Record: ProServices Canada E60ZT-120001/826/ZT Business Consulting/Change Management Pre-qualified Vendor, Alberta Education Resource List “You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. Richard Buckminster Fuller”
Jo, no need to leave the list. I will leave instead. I no longer feel this is my community as I once did, so it is more appropriate for me to be the one to leave. Susan Susan Fertig-Dykes (personal email account) And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought . Isaiah 58:11 Protect against email address harvesting: Use "BCC" when sending to multiple addresses; delete senders’ E-Mail addresses when forwarding. NOTE: I won’t be offended if you ask me to remove you from my emails. From: OE [mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Jo Nelson via OE Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2016 8:43 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] more news for Susan The disrespectful comments from both sides of the political spectrum about people with different views has compelled me to leave this list. I will not participate in negative energy and disrespect. Jo Nelson On Nov 6, 2016, at 7:57 PM, Susan Fertig via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote: Every time I read one of these condescending “poor misguided Susan” missives, I have to chuckle at the hypocrisy. All of you are guilty of everything of which you each have accused me. The only difference is that I’m not tied to ANY candidate, and you all have drunk the Hillary koolaid. Susan Susan Fertig-Dykes (personal email account) And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought . Isaiah 58:11 Protect against email address harvesting: Use "BCC" when sending to multiple addresses; delete senders’ E-Mail addresses when forwarding. NOTE: I won’t be offended if you ask me to remove you from my emails. From: OE [mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of W. J. via OE Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2016 6:20 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>>; Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>> Subject: [Oe List ...] more news for Susan I've 'enjoyed' Susan's anti-Hillary diatribes, especially her cartoon. Not that I agree with her biases--I actually voted for Hillary (without holding my nose too hard). But I'm stunned that so many of my colleagues took the bait she threw at us--and jumped all over her. Her cartoon, for example, articulates the entrenched "meme" or biased and emotionally charged view of a large segment of voters who have voted or will vote without reference to FBI Director Comey's last-second letter of "reprieve" for Hillary. I predict that this letter won't change Susan's biases at all. She's totally stuck in "their" popular anti-Hillary meme, and nothing you or I or Mr. Comey can say will change her mind. So what does this mean for all of us? Can we even relate to people--relatives, "friends", workmates, or (goddess help us) even old "colleagues"--who have bought the same political malarkey Susan has swallowed whole? How can we make any sense of how Susan can be so misguided, given the depth of our common understanding of the way life is? Or, for that matter, how can we embrace people with whom we have developed personal trust and mutual esteem, once we learn they're "living on a different political planet"? Surely this is the moment for the 'transestablishment' dynamic. We need to speak to the hidden suffering of those who are angry and fearful and feel disempowered by their loss of economic, political, and cultural status as once-prosperous members of the middle class. And also to the segment of the electorate who feels Hillary is WAY too Establishment, is in bed with Wall Street and Corporate America, and has used the political system to disenfranchise them and dismiss their candidate. Finally, it has become obvious that the political process may come to an electoral outcome, but that does not allow for healing or reconciliation between warring political parties, who will feel obliged to take the political battle to the next level--the halls of Congress. Acknowledging and honoring the humanness of those we see as "our" political "enemies"--and eliciting their inclusive wisdom and insights into profound humanness--can be challenging as long as we take their bait and reflect their hate. We need to get WAY beyond this political impasse. Marshall BTW, American political cartoons in the 19th century were historically WAY nastier than anything Susan has sent us. But their distorted perspectives made political points and served an important function: they dramatized the way "ordinary" people perceived political shenanigans. FBI: Review of new emails doesn't change conclusion on Clinton<http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/06/politics/comey-tells-congress-fbi-has-not-changed-conclusions/index.html> <image001.jpg> <image002.png> [https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/23/logos/cnn.png] FBI: Review of new emails doesn't change conclusion on Clinton By Eric Bradner, CNN FBI Director James Comey told lawmakers Sunday the agency hasn't changed its opinion that Hillary Clinton sh... _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net -- Jo Nelson, CPF, CTF <jnelson@ica-associates.ca<http://associates.ca>> Certified Professional Facilitator and ICA Certified ToP™ Facilitator ICA Associates, Inc. 401 Richmond Street West, Suite #405, Toronto, Canada. M5V 3A8 Ph. 1 416-691-2316, x2230 Toll-free 1 877-691-1422 Fax 1 416-691-2491 Website http://ica-associates.ca Cellphone 647 233 6910 Skype “jofacilitator” [cid:image001.jpg@01D2386F.09435A60] Vendor of Record: Government of Ontario Learning and Training Services #OSS00536903 Vendor of Record: ProServices Canada E60ZT-120001/826/ZT Business Consulting/Change Management Pre-qualified Vendor, Alberta Education Resource List “You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. Richard Buckminster Fuller”
I already did, for much the same reason. Not behaving like my community. Take care, Jo
On Nov 6, 2016, at 8:47 PM, Susan Fertig <sfertig@blueskytech.us> wrote:
Jo, no need to leave the list. I will leave instead. I no longer feel this is my community as I once did, so it is more appropriate for me to be the one to leave.
Susan
Susan Fertig-Dykes (personal email account)
And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought . Isaiah 58:11
Protect against email address harvesting: Use "BCC" when sending to multiple addresses; delete senders’ E-Mail addresses when forwarding.
NOTE: I won’t be offended if you ask me to remove you from my emails.
From: OE [mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net>] On Behalf Of Jo Nelson via OE Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2016 8:43 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] more news for Susan
The disrespectful comments from both sides of the political spectrum about people with different views has compelled me to leave this list.
I will not participate in negative energy and disrespect.
Jo Nelson
On Nov 6, 2016, at 7:57 PM, Susan Fertig via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
Every time I read one of these condescending “poor misguided Susan” missives, I have to chuckle at the hypocrisy. All of you are guilty of everything of which you each have accused me. The only difference is that I’m not tied to ANY candidate, and you all have drunk the Hillary koolaid.
Susan
Susan Fertig-Dykes (personal email account)
And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought . Isaiah 58:11
Protect against email address harvesting: Use "BCC" when sending to multiple addresses; delete senders’ E-Mail addresses when forwarding.
NOTE: I won’t be offended if you ask me to remove you from my emails.
From: OE [mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net>] On Behalf Of W. J. via OE Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2016 6:20 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>>; Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>> Subject: [Oe List ...] more news for Susan
I've 'enjoyed' Susan's anti-Hillary diatribes, especially her cartoon. Not that I agree with her biases--I actually voted for Hillary (without holding my nose too hard). But I'm stunned that so many of my colleagues took the bait she threw at us--and jumped all over her. Her cartoon, for example, articulates the entrenched "meme" or biased and emotionally charged view of a large segment of voters who have voted or will vote without reference to FBI Director Comey's last-second letter of "reprieve" for Hillary. I predict that this letter won't change Susan's biases at all. She's totally stuck in "their" popular anti-Hillary meme, and nothing you or I or Mr. Comey can say will change her mind. So what does this mean for all of us? Can we even relate to people--relatives, "friends", workmates, or (goddess help us) even old "colleagues"--who have bought the same political malarkey Susan has swallowed whole? How can we make any sense of how Susan can be so misguided, given the depth of our common understanding of the way life is? Or, for that matter, how can we embrace people with whom we have developed personal trust and mutual esteem, once we learn they're "living on a different political planet"? Surely this is the moment for the 'transestablishment' dynamic. We need to speak to the hidden suffering of those who are angry and fearful and feel disempowered by their loss of economic, political, and cultural status as once-prosperous members of the middle class. And also to the segment of the electorate who feels Hillary is WAY too Establishment, is in bed with Wall Street and Corporate America, and has used the political system to disenfranchise them and dismiss their candidate. Finally, it has become obvious that the political process may come to an electoral outcome, but that does not allow for healing or reconciliation between warring political parties, who will feel obliged to take the political battle to the next level--the halls of Congress. Acknowledging and honoring the humanness of those we see as "our" political "enemies"--and eliciting their inclusive wisdom and insights into profound humanness--can be challenging as long as we take their bait and reflect their hate. We need to get WAY beyond this political impasse. Marshall BTW, American political cartoons in the 19th century were historically WAY nastier than anything Susan has sent us. But their distorted perspectives made political points and served an important function: they dramatized the way "ordinary" people perceived political shenanigans.
FBI: Review of new emails doesn't change conclusion on Clinton <http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/06/politics/comey-tells-congress-fbi-has-not-changed-conclusions/index.html>
<image001.jpg>
<image002.png>
FBI: Review of new emails doesn't change conclusion on Clinton By Eric Bradner, CNN FBI Director James Comey told lawmakers Sunday the agency hasn't changed its opinion that Hillary Clinton sh...
_______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net>
-- Jo Nelson, CPF, CTF <jnelson@ica-associates.ca <http://associates.ca/>> Certified Professional Facilitator and ICA Certified ToP™ Facilitator ICA Associates, Inc. 401 Richmond Street West, Suite #405, Toronto, Canada. M5V 3A8
Ph. 1 416-691-2316, x2230 Toll-free 1 877-691-1422 Fax 1 416-691-2491 Website http://ica-associates.ca <http://ica-associates.ca/> Cellphone 647 233 6910 Skype “jofacilitator”
<image001.jpg>
Vendor of Record: Government of Ontario Learning and Training Services #OSS00536903 Vendor of Record: ProServices Canada E60ZT-120001/826/ZT Business Consulting/Change Management Pre-qualified Vendor, Alberta Education Resource List
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. Richard Buckminster Fuller”
-- Jo Nelson, CPF, CTF <jnelson@ica-associates.ca> Certified Professional Facilitator and ICA Certified ToP™ Facilitator ICA Associates, Inc. 401 Richmond Street West, Suite #405, Toronto, Canada. M5V 3A8 Ph. 1 416-691-2316, x2230 Toll-free 1 877-691-1422 Fax 1 416-691-2491 Website http://ica-associates.ca Cellphone 647 233 6910 Skype “jofacilitator” Vendor of Record: Government of Ontario Learning and Training Services #OSS00536903 Vendor of Record: ProServices Canada E60ZT-120001/826/ZT Business Consulting/Change Management Pre-qualified Vendor, Alberta Education Resource List “You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. Richard Buckminster Fuller”
Dear Susan and Jo, I was very sorry to read your last emails about leaving the list serve as well as the recent dialogue conversation regarding the election. I hope you will both reconsider your decisions to leave the list serve. We need the wisdom of both of you. During the last sixty years of ICA/OE/EI and now the list serves, there have been many passionate disagreements and arguments over many issues, decisions, personality conflicts, directions, etc. Although it may have seemed like group think all the time, I don't believe this movement has been based on everyone thinking alike or having the same gifts. We are a passionate and yes, often, very opinionated group, but I believe, ultimately. people who care deeply and broadly. We never claimed to be perfect, and this election season has tested us, not only on the list serve, but with family and friends and often found us wanting. We are all still learning how to disagree passionately without being destructive--an ongoing process. It is my hope that both of you will reconsider in due time. For any part I have played in the dialogue conversation that was destructive, either by speaking or remaining silent, I sincerely apologize and hope to do better in the future. Grace and peace~ Ellie Stock elliestock@aol.com -----Original Message----- From: Jo Nelson via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Susan Fertig <sfertig@blueskytech.us> Cc: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Sun, Nov 6, 2016 7:55 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] more news for Susan I already did, for much the same reason. Not behaving like my community. Take care, Jo On Nov 6, 2016, at 8:47 PM, Susan Fertig <sfertig@blueskytech.us> wrote: Jo, no need to leave the list. I will leave instead. I no longer feel this is my community as I once did, so it is more appropriate for me to be the one to leave. Susan Susan Fertig-Dykes (personal email account) And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought . Isaiah 58:11 Protect against email address harvesting: Use "BCC" when sending to multiple addresses; delete senders’ E-Mail addresses when forwarding. NOTE: I won’t be offended if you ask me to remove you from my emails. From: OE [mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Jo Nelson via OE Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2016 8:43 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] more news for Susan The disrespectful comments from both sides of the political spectrum about people with different views has compelled me to leave this list. I will not participate in negative energy and disrespect. Jo Nelson On Nov 6, 2016, at 7:57 PM, Susan Fertig via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Every time I read one of these condescending “poor misguided Susan” missives, I have to chuckle at the hypocrisy. All of you are guilty of everything of which you each have accused me. The only difference is that I’m not tied to ANY candidate, and you all have drunk the Hillary koolaid. Susan Susan Fertig-Dykes (personal email account) And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought . Isaiah 58:11 Protect against email address harvesting: Use "BCC" when sending to multiple addresses; delete senders’ E-Mail addresses when forwarding. NOTE: I won’t be offended if you ask me to remove you from my emails. From: OE [mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of W. J. via OE Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2016 6:20 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: [Oe List ...] more news for Susan I've 'enjoyed' Susan's anti-Hillary diatribes, especially her cartoon. Not that I agree with her biases--I actually voted for Hillary (without holding my nose too hard). But I'm stunned that so many of my colleagues took the bait she threw at us--and jumped all over her. Her cartoon, for example, articulates the entrenched "meme" or biased and emotionally charged view of a large segment of voters who have voted or will vote without reference to FBI Director Comey's last-second letter of "reprieve" for Hillary. I predict that this letter won't change Susan's biases at all. She's totally stuck in "their" popular anti-Hillary meme, and nothing you or I or Mr. Comey can say will change her mind. So what does this mean for all of us? Can we even relate to people--relatives, "friends", workmates, or (goddess help us) even old "colleagues"--who have bought the same political malarkey Susan has swallowed whole? How can we make any sense of how Susan can be so misguided, given the depth of our common understanding of the way life is? Or, for that matter, how can we embrace people with whom we have developed personal trust and mutual esteem, once we learn they're "living on a different political planet"? Surely this is the moment for the 'transestablishment' dynamic. We need to speak to the hidden suffering of those who are angry and fearful and feel disempowered by their loss of economic, political, and cultural status as once-prosperous members of the middle class. And also to the segment of the electorate who feels Hillary is WAY too Establishment, is in bed with Wall Street and Corporate America, and has used the political system to disenfranchise them and dismiss their candidate. Finally, it has become obvious that the political process may come to an electoral outcome, but that does not allow for healing or reconciliation between warring political parties, who will feel obliged to take the political battle to the next level--the halls of Congress. Acknowledging and honoring the humanness of those we see as "our" political "enemies"--and eliciting their inclusive wisdom and insights into profound humanness--can be challenging as long as we take their bait and reflect their hate. We need to get WAY beyond this political impasse. Marshall BTW, American political cartoons in the 19th century were historically WAY nastier than anything Susan has sent us. But their distorted perspectives made political points and served an important function: they dramatized the way "ordinary" people perceived political shenanigans. FBI: Review of new emails doesn't change conclusion on Clinton <image001.jpg> <image002.png> FBI: Review of new emails doesn't change conclusion on Clinton By Eric Bradner, CNN FBI Director James Comey told lawmakers Sunday the agency hasn't changed its opinion that Hillary Clinton sh... _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net -- Jo Nelson, CPF, CTF <jnelson@ica-associates.ca> Certified Professional Facilitator and ICA Certified ToP™ Facilitator ICA Associates, Inc. 401 Richmond Street West, Suite #405, Toronto, Canada. M5V 3A8 Ph. 1 416-691-2316, x2230 Toll-free 1 877-691-1422 Fax 1 416-691-2491 Website http://ica-associates.ca Cellphone 647 233 6910 Skype “jofacilitator” <image001.jpg> Vendor of Record: Government of Ontario Learning and Training Services #OSS00536903 Vendor of Record: ProServices Canada E60ZT-120001/826/ZT Business Consulting/Change Management Pre-qualified Vendor, Alberta Education Resource List “You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. Richard Buckminster Fuller” -- Jo Nelson, CPF, CTF <jnelson@ica-associates.ca> Certified Professional Facilitator and ICA Certified ToP™ Facilitator ICA Associates, Inc. 401 Richmond Street West, Suite #405, Toronto, Canada. M5V 3A8 Ph. 1 416-691-2316, x2230 Toll-free 1 877-691-1422 Fax 1 416-691-2491 Website http://ica-associates.ca Cellphone 647 233 6910 Skype “jofacilitator” Vendor of Record: Government of Ontario Learning and Training Services #OSS00536903 Vendor of Record: ProServices Canada E60ZT-120001/826/ZT Business Consulting/Change Management Pre-qualified Vendor, Alberta Education Resource List “You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. Richard Buckminster Fuller” _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Isobel and Jim Bishop isobeljimbish@optusnet.com.au Dear colleagues, I feel very privileged to read your writings. All written with good intentions and as Ellie says, with great passion and well articulated. I feel so caught between the ' no longer' and the ' not yet.' We Australians have our own examples of the divisiveness in our Parliamentary system - not the same of course as yours, and yet quite similar, as it plays out. For me, we are hovering over the Abyss and maybe in the middle/ beginning/ ending process ( I know not where, in the timeline ) of a huge transition and evolution towards a new energetic democratic system- each in our unique context. It is a very raw place to find oneself. The Social Process Triangles are helpful, for me. I fervently hope that both Susan and Jo can hang in and hang on- your loss would be most grievous. I meditate every day as my own daily spirit resource, to guide me, through the darkness towards the light. . There are so many examples of ordinary saints who keep on keeping on, as Adam says. As we stood facing the same Abyss when engaged in the 24, or the 1976 Town Meetings across your country, we consciously decided to honour and trust Mystery. We had no road map to ' do' the Town Meetings, we just went out and 'did' them. Nowadays when our physical energy is less, we are the sages, and can act appropriately in that style, as in the LENS course. Many comments written I have said ' yes' to, and a part of my heart will always reside in your great and beautiful country. Just maybe, you will not be such a leading world power any more, and you will adjust to this fact as time goes by. Fear is a very difficult emotion to overcome, for myself I do so much better every day if I name the fear I have, and can contain it. Grace, peace and love to y'all,or is it ya'all ? Thinking about you, right now. Isobel On 07/11/2016, at 2:29 PM, Ellie Stock via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Dear Susan and Jo,
I was very sorry to read your last emails about leaving the list serve as well as the recent dialogue conversation regarding the election. I hope you will both reconsider your decisions to leave the list serve. We need the wisdom of both of you.
During the last sixty years of ICA/OE/EI and now the list serves, there have been many passionate disagreements and arguments over many issues, decisions, personality conflicts, directions, etc. Although it may have seemed like group think all the time, I don't believe this movement has been based on everyone thinking alike or having the same gifts. We are a passionate and yes, often, very opinionated group, but I believe, ultimately. people who care deeply and broadly. We never claimed to be perfect, and this election season has tested us, not only on the list serve, but with family and friends and often found us wanting. We are all still learning how to disagree passionately without being destructive--an ongoing process.
It is my hope that both of you will reconsider in due time. For any part I have played in the dialogue conversation that was destructive, either by speaking or remaining silent, I sincerely apologize and hope to do better in the future.
Grace and peace~ Ellie Stock elliestock@aol.com
-----Original Message----- From: Jo Nelson via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Susan Fertig <sfertig@blueskytech.us> Cc: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Sun, Nov 6, 2016 7:55 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] more news for Susan
I already did, for much the same reason. Not behaving like my community.
Take care, Jo
On Nov 6, 2016, at 8:47 PM, Susan Fertig <sfertig@blueskytech.us> wrote:
Jo, no need to leave the list. I will leave instead. I no longer feel this is my community as I once did, so it is more appropriate for me to be the one to leave.
Susan
Susan Fertig-Dykes (personal email account)
And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought . Isaiah 58:11
Protect against email address harvesting: Use "BCC" when sending to multiple addresses; delete senders’ E-Mail addresses when forwarding.
NOTE: I won’t be offended if you ask me to remove you from my emails.
From: OE [mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Jo Nelson via OE Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2016 8:43 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] more news for Susan
The disrespectful comments from both sides of the political spectrum about people with different views has compelled me to leave this list.
I will not participate in negative energy and disrespect.
Jo Nelson
On Nov 6, 2016, at 7:57 PM, Susan Fertig via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Every time I read one of these condescending “poor misguided Susan” missives, I have to chuckle at the hypocrisy. All of you are guilty of everything of which you each have accused me. The only difference is that I’m not tied to ANY candidate, and you all have drunk the Hillary koolaid.
Susan
Susan Fertig-Dykes (personal email account)
And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought . Isaiah 58:11
Protect against email address harvesting: Use "BCC" when sending to multiple addresses; delete senders’ E-Mail addresses when forwarding.
NOTE: I won’t be offended if you ask me to remove you from my emails.
From: OE [mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of W. J. via OE Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2016 6:20 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: [Oe List ...] more news for Susan
I've 'enjoyed' Susan's anti-Hillary diatribes, especially her cartoon. Not that I agree with her biases--I actually voted for Hillary (without holding my nose too hard). But I'm stunned that so many of my colleagues took the bait she threw at us--and jumped all over her. Her cartoon, for example, articulates the entrenched "meme" or biased and emotionally charged view of a large segment of voters who have voted or will vote without reference to FBI Director Comey's last-second letter of "reprieve" for Hillary. I predict that this letter won't change Susan's biases at all. She's totally stuck in "their" popular anti-Hillary meme, and nothing you or I or Mr. Comey can say will change her mind. So what does this mean for all of us? Can we even relate to people--relatives, "friends", workmates, or (goddess help us) even old "colleagues"--who have bought the same political malarkey Susan has swallowed whole? How can we make any sense of how Susan can be so misguided, given the depth of our common understanding of the way life is? Or, for that matter, how can we embrace people with whom we have developed personal trust and mutual esteem, once we learn they're "living on a different political planet"? Surely this is the moment for the 'transestablishment' dynamic. We need to speak to the hidden suffering of those who are angry and fearful and feel disempowered by their loss of economic, political, and cultural status as once-prosperous members of the middle class. And also to the segment of the electorate who feels Hillary is WAY too Establishment, is in bed with Wall Street and Corporate America, and has used the political system to disenfranchise them and dismiss their candidate. Finally, it has become obvious that the political process may come to an electoral outcome, but that does not allow for healing or reconciliation between warring political parties, who will feel obliged to take the political battle to the next level--the halls of Congress. Acknowledging and honoring the humanness of those we see as "our" political "enemies"--and eliciting their inclusive wisdom and insights into profound humanness--can be challenging as long as we take their bait and reflect their hate. We need to get WAY beyond this political impasse. Marshall BTW, American political cartoons in the 19th century were historically WAY nastier than anything Susan has sent us. But their distorted perspectives made political points and served an important function: they dramatized the way "ordinary" people perceived political shenanigans.
FBI: Review of new emails doesn't change conclusion on Clinton
<image001.jpg>
<image002.png>
FBI: Review of new emails doesn't change conclusion on Clinton By Eric Bradner, CNN FBI Director James Comey told lawmakers Sunday the agency hasn't changed its opinion that Hillary Clinton sh...
_______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
-- Jo Nelson, CPF, CTF <jnelson@ica-associates.ca> Certified Professional Facilitator and ICA Certified ToP™ Facilitator ICA Associates, Inc. 401 Richmond Street West, Suite #405, Toronto, Canada. M5V 3A8
Ph. 1 416-691-2316, x2230 Toll-free 1 877-691-1422 Fax 1 416-691-2491 Website http://ica-associates.ca Cellphone 647 233 6910 Skype “jofacilitator”
<image001.jpg>
Vendor of Record: Government of Ontario Learning and Training Services #OSS00536903 Vendor of Record: ProServices Canada E60ZT-120001/826/ZT Business Consulting/Change Management Pre-qualified Vendor, Alberta Education Resource List
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. Richard Buckminster Fuller”
-- Jo Nelson, CPF, CTF <jnelson@ica-associates.ca> Certified Professional Facilitator and ICA Certified ToP™ Facilitator ICA Associates, Inc. 401 Richmond Street West, Suite #405, Toronto, Canada. M5V 3A8
Ph. 1 416-691-2316, x2230 Toll-free 1 877-691-1422 Fax 1 416-691-2491 Website http://ica-associates.ca Cellphone 647 233 6910 Skype “jofacilitator”
<IAF-CPF-Logo-email.jpeg>
Vendor of Record: Government of Ontario Learning and Training Services #OSS00536903 Vendor of Record: ProServices Canada E60ZT-120001/826/ZT Business Consulting/Change Management Pre-qualified Vendor, Alberta Education Resource List
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. Richard Buckminster Fuller”
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
participants (5)
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Ellie Stock via OE -
Isobel and Jim Bishop via OE
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Jo Nelson via OE
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Susan Fertig via OE
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W. J. via OE