Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. - Dear Susan
Dear Group. Jon Elizondo here. Son of Tony and Ellery. Long time "Order kid" and short time Order adult. This conversation is very important, especially with all the perspectives. I will try to hone in now on one of my key points. The change needed in the system is huge. Our current system is incredible broken in so many ways. We are a first world country "purposefully" going backwards by not investing in our infrastructure nor in our people. In my observation and opinion, much of the national frustration shows itself in the desire to elect Trump, or Bernie, or any alternative. The "Cry" for change is massive, and will not let up. One of the traps is either/or thinking. one of the ways forward is both/and/plus-more thinking. One of the traps is "personal attacks". one of the ways forward is "come join us at the table". What I know in my bones is that we are all connected. That mysterious truth, combined with my passion & respect, is my key to intentionally moving forward. Walk in Beauty,Jon ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Isobel Bishop via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Wilson Priscilla H <pris@teamtechpress.com>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. - Dear Susan Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2016 07:23:32 +1100 Thankyou for this conversation, colleagues. I appreciate the Honesty, pain and fear expressed indepth,to give us outsiders some real hope. Thankyou all.In peace and love,Isobel Sent from my iPhone On 2 Nov 2016, at 7:02 am, Wilson Priscilla H via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: No one has said that better, Randy. You should put that on Facebook…so we can all copy your words.Priscilla WilsonOn Nov 1, 2016, at 2:35 PM, Joyce Sloan via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:Well said, Randy!! On Nov 1, 2016 2:20 PM, "Randy Williams via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:I keep asking, but still have not seen, one shred of verifiable evidence to substantiate the charge that Hillary has committed a criminal act of any sort. She's made serious mistakes like with the private server, she has not been as transparent as she could and perhaps should have been, she got paid a lot of money for some speeches (but less than some men), she's flip-flopped on some positions she's taken like on TPP, she has a super-healthy ego (an asset for a man but a huge liability for a woman in our culture), she didn't play nice when she was First Lady trying to get health care passed, as Secretary of State she traveled the world and spoke truth to power like the Premier of China, and after much gut-wrenching deliberation and prayer she chose to stay true to her vow to her husband of "for better or worse" through "worse." And to add insult to injury, she decided to run to be the first woman in the Office of President of the United States. How dare she. Despise her for all those things and hate all her positions on the issues, but don't accuse her of being a criminal unless you have some rock solid proof that hours and years and millions of dollars worth of hearings, investigations and witch hunts by scores of government agencies, news media and nondescript malcontents have been unable to produce. I've heard the rumors, innuendos, exaggerations, conjecture, gross distortions and outright lies, everything but verifiable truth. Got any? Then let's have it. But double check your sources before you put it out there because there really are some malingering, deplorable liars afoot in the land and a lot of fools are believing them and then repeating what they heard them say and calling it truth, and it just isn't. RandySent from my iPadOn Nov 1, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Susan Fertig via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:Trump was never my choice, and Hillary is a criminal--her vision for the country is my first nightmare. And Trump is just as flawed. Both of them scare me to death. But neither if the other candidates is really an option either. I fear we're about to see this great American experiment in democracy become something no less evil than the many kleptocracies around the world. Susan Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE DroidOn Nov 1, 2016 11:55 AM, Judi White <sophiacircle@gmail.com> wrote:Well, what you wrote is what Frumper repeats over and over. Mist who parrot him do support him. I Personally prefer to read responses to a candidates vision for this nation. Also I stand firm in ny admiration which never ceases, of this woman who has continued in spite of the unbelievable accusations which are so blown up out of the real world of truth and honesty that it is cause for seriously asking "Why?". Why the hell bent mission to destroy a solid vision for this nation and this planet? There is no other candidate who shines so brightly and qualified to be an example for our children and grandchildren at this time. Rightly so. On Nov 1, 2016 12:20 PM, "Susan Fertig via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:How in the world did you infer that I must be a Trump supporter from my message? Susan Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE DroidOn Nov 1, 2016 7:56 AM, Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942@gmail.com> wrote: Dear Susan, Writing to you as a Canadian Christian and 16-year Order member, I am awed by your commitment to American Republicanism and conservative Christianity. How in the world did you spend so much time with the EI/OE/ICA community and have your world view remain unaffected? From the perspective of Canada, we are 87% supporters of HRC and the image of America she represents. Probably Russia is 87% in favour of Donald. Each and every ‘crime’ that I have read about that is attributed to Hillary has been most grandly committed by Republicans in previous Bush administrations. Surely you would agree that Donald Trump is an out and out racist, sexist, homophobe, parochial narcissist and most of all a climate change denier? HRC is none of the above. Thankfully, she is responsive to both Bernie and to Elizabeth. We may get out of this mess yet. Your phrase: "only values I see are abject greed, a pathological allegiance to lies, and arrogant flaunting of her ability to circumvent the law. She has done absolutely nothing to improve the lives of the poor and disadvantaged yet claims she has in the face of all evidence to the contrary.” is really the truth that the world sees about Trump. I would invite you to see all that as a projection. Should Trump take ownership of any of the above, that would be a fine moment of grace. Would you not agree? Margaret Atwood, (a Canadian poet, novelist, literary critic, essayist, and environmental activist) describes America in the midst of a Salem type witch hunt. I agree. It is, at the bottom a war against women. While there are indeed my contradictions in American society that both the Republican and Democratic administrations must answer for, the attached article came closest - for me - in describing how the Republican voice has committed itself to an ‘end game’ and it would seem that indeed, the GOP will ‘end’. Love and best wishes to you, Susan and to all Trump supporters who have been left without any vision other than rebellion or depression. We are all responsible. Everyone. Ken in Canada. A Republican intellectual explains why the Republican Party is going to diehttp://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/12256510/republican-party-trump-avik-roy On Nov 1, 2016, at 12:03 AM, Susan Fertig via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:Values??? The only values I see are abject greed, a pathological allegiance to lies, and arrogant flaunting of her ability to circumvent the law. She has done absolutely nothing to improve the lives of the poor and disadvantaged yet claims she has in the face of all evidence to the contrary. I've heard for years about this possible connection to EI/ICA, and I truly hope it's not true. It would be a horrible embarrassment to the movement. Susan Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE DroidOn Oct 31, 2016 11:22 PM, William Salmon via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:Colleagues-- So many raise the question concerning Hillary Clinton's relationship to E.I. I decided to cast this bread upon the waters. The first sign is that while I addressed it to Hillary Clinton, an alternate address popped up. Consequently, it may really get to her attention, to that of some aid. May it be a Kool-Aid. Inner Peace, Bill Mrs. Hillary Clinton: It is my prayer that this reaches you concerning your experience in 5th City, Chicago, or it could have been in Evanston. Your Youth Director, Don Jones, must have been at a training event to become known as RS-I. About the same time, a large number of us dedicated ourselves to this renewal movement that grew from our experience in Chicago Ghetto to literally embrace the world. It makes me wonder if your experience under his leadership influenced the values you hold dear, and now wish to step onto the platform of the Presidency to do for our United States and for the world what was embraced by the courageous citizens in 5th City. You carry my prayers during this last turbulent week. You have my vote. Grace and Peace, Pastor William E. Salmon 744 So. 10th Salina, KS 67401 wsalmon@cox.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net__________________... mailing listOE@lists.wedgeblade.nethttp://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net__________________... OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net__________________... mailing listOE@lists.wedgeblade.nethttp://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.netWilson Priscilla Hpris@teamtechpress.comwww.teamtechpress.com follow me on:FacebookTwitter _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Hillary will not change the toxic system we have. Change cannot come from within the current structure. The two party stranglehold has to end. They are two sides of the same coin. Join the Green Party movement. The Green Party is value based. Check out the 4 Pillars and 10 Key Values on gp.org <http://www.gp.org/> Vote for Jill Stein and support Green candidates down ballot. Jill2016.com <http://jill2016.com/> Vote your values, not your fears.
On Nov 1, 2016, at 3:36 PM, jonzondo@juno.com via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Dear Group. Jon Elizondo here. Son of Tony and Ellery. Long time "Order kid" and short time Order adult.
This conversation is very important, especially with all the perspectives. I will try to hone in now on one of my key points. The change needed in the system is huge. Our current system is incredible broken in so many ways. We are a first world country "purposefully" going backwards by not investing in our infrastructure nor in our people. In my observation and opinion, much of the national frustration shows itself in the desire to elect Trump, or Bernie, or any alternative. The "Cry" for change is massive, and will not let up.
One of the traps is either/or thinking.
one of the ways forward is both/and/plus-more thinking.
One of the traps is "personal attacks".
one of the ways forward is "come join us at the table".
What I know in my bones is that we are all connected. That mysterious truth, combined with my passion & respect, is my key to intentionally moving forward.
Walk in Beauty, Jon
---------- Original Message ---------- From: Isobel Bishop via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Wilson Priscilla H <pris@teamtechpress.com>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. - Dear Susan Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2016 07:23:32 +1100
Thankyou for this conversation, colleagues. I appreciate the Honesty, pain and fear expressed in depth,to give us outsiders some real hope. Thankyou all. In peace and love, Isobel Sent from my iPhone
On 2 Nov 2016, at 7:02 am, Wilson Priscilla H via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
No one has said that better, Randy. You should put that on Facebook…so we can all copy your words. Priscilla Wilson
On Nov 1, 2016, at 2:35 PM, Joyce Sloan via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote: Well said, Randy!!
On Nov 1, 2016 2:20 PM, "Randy Williams via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote: I keep asking, but still have not seen, one shred of verifiable evidence to substantiate the charge that Hillary has committed a criminal act of any sort. She's made serious mistakes like with the private server, she has not been as transparent as she could and perhaps should have been, she got paid a lot of money for some speeches (but less than some men), she's flip-flopped on some positions she's taken like on TPP, she has a super-healthy ego (an asset for a man but a huge liability for a woman in our culture), she didn't play nice when she was First Lady trying to get health care passed, as Secretary of State she traveled the world and spoke truth to power like the Premier of China, and after much gut-wrenching deliberation and prayer she chose to stay true to her vow to her husband of "for better or worse" through "worse." And to add insult to injury, she decided to run to be the first woman in the Office of President of the United States. How dare she. Despise her for all those things and hate all her positions on the issues, but don't accuse her of being a criminal unless you have some rock solid proof that hours and years and millions of dollars worth of hearings, investigations and witch hunts by scores of government agencies, news media and nondescript malcontents have been unable to produce. I've heard the rumors, innuendos, exaggerations, conjecture, gross distortions and outright lies, everything but verifiable truth. Got any? Then let's have it. But double check your sources before you put it out there because there really are some malingering, deplorable liars afoot in the land and a lot of fools are believing them and then repeating what they heard them say and calling it truth, and it just isn't. Randy
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 1, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Susan Fertig via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
Trump was never my choice, and Hillary is a criminal--her vision for the country is my first nightmare. And Trump is just as flawed. Both of them scare me to death. But neither if the other candidates is really an option either. I fear we're about to see this great American experiment in democracy become something no less evil than the many kleptocracies around the world.
Susan
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid On Nov 1, 2016 11:55 AM, Judi White <sophiacircle@gmail.com <mailto:sophiacircle@gmail.com>> wrote: Well, what you wrote is what Frumper repeats over and over. Mist who parrot him do support him. I Personally prefer to read responses to a candidates vision for this nation. Also I stand firm in ny admiration which never ceases, of this woman who has continued in spite of the unbelievable accusations which are so blown up out of the real world of truth and honesty that it is cause for seriously asking "Why?". Why the hell bent mission to destroy a solid vision for this nation and this planet? There is no other candidate who shines so brightly and qualified to be an example for our children and grandchildren at this time. Rightly so.
On Nov 1, 2016 12:20 PM, "Susan Fertig via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote: How in the world did you infer that I must be a Trump supporter from my message?
Susan
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid On Nov 1, 2016 7:56 AM, Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942@gmail.com <mailto:kenfisher1942@gmail.com>> wrote:
Dear Susan,
Writing to you as a Canadian Christian and 16-year Order member, I am awed by your commitment to American Republicanism and conservative Christianity. How in the world did you spend so much time with the EI/OE/ICA community and have your world view remain unaffected?
From the perspective of Canada, we are 87% supporters of HRC and the image of America she represents. Probably Russia is 87% in favour of Donald.
Each and every ‘crime’ that I have read about that is attributed to Hillary has been most grandly committed by Republicans in previous Bush administrations.
Surely you would agree that Donald Trump is an out and out racist, sexist, homophobe, parochial narcissist and most of all a climate change denier? HRC is none of the above. Thankfully, she is responsive to both Bernie and to Elizabeth. We may get out of this mess yet.
Your phrase: "only values I see are abject greed, a pathological allegiance to lies, and arrogant flaunting of her ability to circumvent the law. She has done absolutely nothing to improve the lives of the poor and disadvantaged yet claims she has in the face of all evidence to the contrary.” is really the truth that the world sees about Trump.
I would invite you to see all that as a projection.
Should Trump take ownership of any of the above, that would be a fine moment of grace. Would you not agree?
Margaret Atwood, (a Canadian poet, novelist, literary critic, essayist, and environmental activist) describes America in the midst of a Salem type witch hunt. I agree. It is, at the bottom a war against women.
While there are indeed my contradictions in American society that both the Republican and Democratic administrations must answer for, the attached article came closest - for me - in describing how the Republican voice has committed itself to an ‘end game’ and it would seem that indeed, the GOP will ‘end’.
Love and best wishes to you, Susan and to all Trump supporters who have been left without any vision other than rebellion or depression.
We are all responsible. Everyone.
Ken in Canada.
A Republican intellectual explains why the Republican Party is going to die http://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/12256510/republican-party-trump-avik-roy <http://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/12256510/republican-party-trump-avik-roy>
On Nov 1, 2016, at 12:03 AM, Susan Fertig via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
Values??? The only values I see are abject greed, a pathological allegiance to lies, and arrogant flaunting of her ability to circumvent the law. She has done absolutely nothing to improve the lives of the poor and disadvantaged yet claims she has in the face of all evidence to the contrary. I've heard for years about this possible connection to EI/ICA, and I truly hope it's not true. It would be a horrible embarrassment to the movement.
Susan
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid On Oct 31, 2016 11:22 PM, William Salmon via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote: Colleagues-- So many raise the question concerning Hillary Clinton's relationship to E.I. I decided to cast this bread upon the waters. The first sign is that while I addressed it to Hillary Clinton, an alternate address popped up. Consequently, it may really get to her attention, to that of some aid. May it be a Kool-Aid. Inner Peace, Bill
Mrs. Hillary Clinton: It is my prayer that this reaches you concerning your experience in 5th City, Chicago, or it could have been in Evanston. Your Youth Director, Don Jones, must have been at a training event to become known as RS-I. About the same time, a large number of us dedicated ourselves to this renewal movement that grew from our experience in Chicago Ghetto to literally embrace the world. It makes me wonder if your experience under his leadership influenced the values you hold dear, and now wish to step onto the platform of the Presidency to do for our United States and for the world what was embraced by the courageous citizens in 5th City. You carry my prayers during this last turbulent week. You have my vote. Grace and Peace, Pastor William E. Salmon 744 So. 10th Salina, KS 67401 wsalmon@cox.net <mailto:wsalmon@cox.net>
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net> _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net> _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net> _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net>_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net> Wilson Priscilla H pris@teamtechpress.com <mailto:pris@teamtechpress.com> www.teamtechpress.com <http://www.teamtechpress.com/>
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A vote for a third party this year is a vote for Trump. I, for one, am willing to work in the next 4 years to build the infrastructure necessary for viable new parties, either Green or Social Democrat. I'm not willing to sacrifice the next 4 years. Jann McGuire -----Original Message----- From: Wesson Gaige via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: jonzondo <jonzondo@juno.com>; Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Tue, Nov 1, 2016 1:46 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. - Dear Susan Hillary will not change the toxic system we have. Change cannot come from within the current structure. The two party stranglehold has to end. They are two sides of the same coin. Join the Green Party movement. The Green Party is value based. Check out the 4 Pillars and 10 Key Values on gp.org Vote for Jill Stein and support Green candidates down ballot. Jill2016.com Vote your values, not your fears. On Nov 1, 2016, at 3:36 PM, jonzondo@juno.com via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Dear Group. Jon Elizondo here. Son of Tony and Ellery. Long time "Order kid" and short time Order adult. This conversation is very important, especially with all the perspectives. I will try to hone in now on one of my key points. The change needed in the system is huge. Our current system is incredible broken in so many ways. We are a first world country "purposefully" going backwards by not investing in our infrastructure nor in our people. In my observation and opinion, much of the national frustration shows itself in the desire to elect Trump, or Bernie, or any alternative. The "Cry" for change is massive, and will not let up. One of the traps is either/or thinking. one of the ways forward is both/and/plus-more thinking. One of the traps is "personal attacks". one of the ways forward is "come join us at the table". What I know in my bones is that we are all connected. That mysterious truth, combined with my passion & respect, is my key to intentionally moving forward. Walk in Beauty, Jon ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Isobel Bishop via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Wilson Priscilla H <pris@teamtechpress.com>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. - Dear Susan Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2016 07:23:32 +1100 Thankyou for this conversation, colleagues. I appreciate the Honesty, pain and fear expressed in depth,to give us outsiders some real hope. Thankyou all. In peace and love, Isobel Sent from my iPhone On 2 Nov 2016, at 7:02 am, Wilson Priscilla H via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: No one has said that better, Randy. You should put that on Facebook…so we can all copy your words. Priscilla Wilson On Nov 1, 2016, at 2:35 PM, Joyce Sloan via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Well said, Randy!! On Nov 1, 2016 2:20 PM, "Randy Williams via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: I keep asking, but still have not seen, one shred of verifiable evidence to substantiate the charge that Hillary has committed a criminal act of any sort. She's made serious mistakes like with the private server, she has not been as transparent as she could and perhaps should have been, she got paid a lot of money for some speeches (but less than some men), she's flip-flopped on some positions she's taken like on TPP, she has a super-healthy ego (an asset for a man but a huge liability for a woman in our culture), she didn't play nice when she was First Lady trying to get health care passed, as Secretary of State she traveled the world and spoke truth to power like the Premier of China, and after much gut-wrenching deliberation and prayer she chose to stay true to her vow to her husband of "for better or worse" through "worse." And to add insult to injury, she decided to run to be the first woman in the Office of President of the United States. How dare she. Despise her for all those things and hate all her positions on the issues, but don't accuse her of being a criminal unless you have some rock solid proof that hours and years and millions of dollars worth of hearings, investigations and witch hunts by scores of government agencies, news media and nondescript malcontents have been unable to produce. I've heard the rumors, innuendos, exaggerations, conjecture, gross distortions and outright lies, everything but verifiable truth. Got any? Then let's have it. But double check your sources before you put it out there because there really are some malingering, deplorable liars afoot in the land and a lot of fools are believing them and then repeating what they heard them say and calling it truth, and it just isn't. Randy Sent from my iPad On Nov 1, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Susan Fertig via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Trump was never my choice, and Hillary is a criminal--her vision for the country is my first nightmare. And Trump is just as flawed. Both of them scare me to death. But neither if the other candidates is really an option either. I fear we're about to see this great American experiment in democracy become something no less evil than the many kleptocracies around the world. Susan Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid On Nov 1, 2016 11:55 AM, Judi White <sophiacircle@gmail.com> wrote: Well, what you wrote is what Frumper repeats over and over. Mist who parrot him do support him. I Personally prefer to read responses to a candidates vision for this nation. Also I stand firm in ny admiration which never ceases, of this woman who has continued in spite of the unbelievable accusations which are so blown up out of the real world of truth and honesty that it is cause for seriously asking "Why?". Why the hell bent mission to destroy a solid vision for this nation and this planet? There is no other candidate who shines so brightly and qualified to be an example for our children and grandchildren at this time. Rightly so. On Nov 1, 2016 12:20 PM, "Susan Fertig via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: How in the world did you infer that I must be a Trump supporter from my message? Susan Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid On Nov 1, 2016 7:56 AM, Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942@gmail.com> wrote: Dear Susan, Writing to you as a Canadian Christian and 16-year Order member, I am awed by your commitment to American Republicanism and conservative Christianity. How in the world did you spend so much time with the EI/OE/ICA community and have your world view remain unaffected?
From the perspective of Canada, we are 87% supporters of HRC and the image of America she represents. Probably Russia is 87% in favour of Donald. Each and every ‘crime’ that I have read about that is attributed to Hillary has been most grandly committed by Republicans in previous Bush administrations. Surely you would agree that Donald Trump is an out and out racist, sexist, homophobe, parochial narcissist and most of all a climate change denier? HRC is none of the above. Thankfully, she is responsive to both Bernie and to Elizabeth. We may get out of this mess yet. Your phrase: "only values I see are abject greed, a pathological allegiance to lies, and arrogant flaunting of her ability to circumvent the law. She has done absolutely nothing to improve the lives of the poor and disadvantaged yet claims she has in the face of all evidence to the contrary.” is really the truth that the world sees about Trump. I would invite you to see all that as a projection. Should Trump take ownership of any of the above, that would be a fine moment of grace. Would you not agree? Margaret Atwood, (a Canadian poet, novelist, literary critic, essayist, and environmental activist) describes America in the midst of a Salem type witch hunt. I agree. It is, at the bottom a war against women. While there are indeed my contradictions in American society that both the Republican and Democratic administrations must answer for, the attached article came closest - for me - in describing how the Republican voice has committed itself to an ‘end game’ and it would seem that indeed, the GOP will ‘end’. Love and best wishes to you, Susan and to all Trump supporters who have been left without any vision other than rebellion or depression. We are all responsible. Everyone. Ken in Canada. A Republican intellectual explains why the Republican Party is going to die http://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/12256510/republican-party-trump-avik-roy
On Nov 1, 2016, at 12:03 AM, Susan Fertig via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Values??? The only values I see are abject greed, a pathological allegiance to lies, and arrogant flaunting of her ability to circumvent the law. She has done absolutely nothing to improve the lives of the poor and disadvantaged yet claims she has in the face of all evidence to the contrary. I've heard for years about this possible connection to EI/ICA, and I truly hope it's not true. It would be a horrible embarrassment to the movement. Susan Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid On Oct 31, 2016 11:22 PM, William Salmon via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Colleagues-- So many raise the question concerning Hillary Clinton's relationship to E.I. I decided to cast this bread upon the waters. The first sign is that while I addressed it to Hillary Clinton, an alternate address popped up. Consequently, it may really get to her attention, to that of some aid. May it be a Kool-Aid. Inner Peace, Bill Mrs. Hillary Clinton: It is my prayer that this reaches you concerning your experience in 5th City, Chicago, or it could have been in Evanston. Your Youth Director, Don Jones, must have been at a training event to become known as RS-I. About the same time, a large number of us dedicated ourselves to this renewal movement that grew from our experience in Chicago Ghetto to literally embrace the world. It makes me wonder if your experience under his leadership influenced the values you hold dear, and now wish to step onto the platform of the Presidency to do for our United States and for the world what was embraced by the courageous citizens in 5th City. You carry my prayers during this last turbulent week. You have my vote. Grace and Peace, Pastor William E. Salmon 744 So. 10th Salina, KS 67401 wsalmon@cox.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net Wilson Priscilla H pris@teamtechpress.com www.teamtechpress.com follow me on: Facebook Twitter _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
No matter which of the major party candidates is elected, the next 4 years will be sacrificed. You’re voting out of fear rather than your values. I refuse to accept the 'two party' paradigm. The 'winner take all' paradigm is not serving us well. In this paradigm, I can't win because I do not agree with either choice. And I'm too old to continue accepting the 'lesser of two evils' argument. There needs to be more than two choices. We need a broad spectrum of choices. It's one reason the political participation is so pathetic. People are smart enough to figure out their voice will not be heard. We need proportional representation. The views of people along the entire spectrum of need to be used. That way we can all win.
On Nov 1, 2016, at 4:57 PM, laurelcg@aol.com wrote:
A vote for a third party this year is a vote for Trump.
I, for one, am willing to work in the next 4 years to build the infrastructure necessary for viable new parties, either Green or Social Democrat. I'm not willing to sacrifice the next 4 years.
Jann McGuire
-----Original Message----- From: Wesson Gaige via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: jonzondo <jonzondo@juno.com>; Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Tue, Nov 1, 2016 1:46 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. - Dear Susan
Hillary will not change the toxic system we have. Change cannot come from within the current structure. The two party stranglehold has to end. They are two sides of the same coin. Join the Green Party movement. The Green Party is value based. Check out the 4 Pillars and 10 Key Values on gp.org <http://www.gp.org/> Vote for Jill Stein and support Green candidates down ballot.
Jill2016.com <http://jill2016.com/>
Vote your values, not your fears.
On Nov 1, 2016, at 3:36 PM, jonzondo@juno.com <mailto:jonzondo@juno.com> via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
Dear Group. Jon Elizondo here. Son of Tony and Ellery. Long time "Order kid" and short time Order adult.
This conversation is very important, especially with all the perspectives. I will try to hone in now on one of my key points. The change needed in the system is huge. Our current system is incredible broken in so many ways. We are a first world country "purposefully" going backwards by not investing in our infrastructure nor in our people. In my observation and opinion, much of the national frustration shows itself in the desire to elect Trump, or Bernie, or any alternative. The "Cry" for change is massive, and will not let up.
One of the traps is either/or thinking.
one of the ways forward is both/and/plus-more thinking.
One of the traps is "personal attacks".
one of the ways forward is "come join us at the table".
What I know in my bones is that we are all connected. That mysterious truth, combined with my passion & respect, is my key to intentionally moving forward.
Walk in Beauty, Jon
---------- Original Message ---------- From: Isobel Bishop via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> To: Wilson Priscilla H <pris@teamtechpress.com <mailto:pris@teamtechpress.com>>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. - Dear Susan Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2016 07:23:32 +1100
Thankyou for this conversation, colleagues. I appreciate the Honesty, pain and fear expressed in depth,to give us outsiders some real hope. Thankyou all. In peace and love, Isobel Sent from my iPhone
On 2 Nov 2016, at 7:02 am, Wilson Priscilla H via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
No one has said that better, Randy. You should put that on Facebook…so we can all copy your words. Priscilla Wilson
On Nov 1, 2016, at 2:35 PM, Joyce Sloan via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote: Well said, Randy!!
On Nov 1, 2016 2:20 PM, "Randy Williams via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote: I keep asking, but still have not seen, one shred of verifiable evidence to substantiate the charge that Hillary has committed a criminal act of any sort. She's made serious mistakes like with the private server, she has not been as transparent as she could and perhaps should have been, she got paid a lot of money for some speeches (but less than some men), she's flip-flopped on some positions she's taken like on TPP, she has a super-healthy ego (an asset for a man but a huge liability for a woman in our culture), she didn't play nice when she was First Lady trying to get health care passed, as Secretary of State she traveled the world and spoke truth to power like the Premier of China, and after much gut-wrenching deliberation and prayer she chose to stay true to her vow to her husband of "for better or worse" through "worse." And to add insult to injury, she decided to run to be the first woman in the Office of President of the United States. How dare she. Despise her for all those things and hate all her positions on the issues, but don't accuse her of being a criminal unless you have some rock solid proof that hours and years and millions of dollars worth of hearings, investigations and witch hunts by scores of government agencies, news media and nondescript malcontents have been unable to produce. I've heard the rumors, innuendos, exaggerations, conjecture, gross distortions and outright lies, everything but verifiable truth. Got any? Then let's have it. But double check your sources before you put it out there because there really are some malingering, deplorable liars afoot in the land and a lot of fools are believing them and then repeating what they heard them say and calling it truth, and it just isn't. Randy
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 1, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Susan Fertig via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
Trump was never my choice, and Hillary is a criminal--her vision for the country is my first nightmare. And Trump is just as flawed. Both of them scare me to death. But neither if the other candidates is really an option either. I fear we're about to see this great American experiment in democracy become something no less evil than the many kleptocracies around the world.
Susan
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid On Nov 1, 2016 11:55 AM, Judi White <sophiacircle@gmail.com <mailto:sophiacircle@gmail.com>> wrote: Well, what you wrote is what Frumper repeats over and over. Mist who parrot him do support him. I Personally prefer to read responses to a candidates vision for this nation. Also I stand firm in ny admiration which never ceases, of this woman who has continued in spite of the unbelievable accusations which are so blown up out of the real world of truth and honesty that it is cause for seriously asking "Why?". Why the hell bent mission to destroy a solid vision for this nation and this planet? There is no other candidate who shines so brightly and qualified to be an example for our children and grandchildren at this time. Rightly so.
On Nov 1, 2016 12:20 PM, "Susan Fertig via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote: How in the world did you infer that I must be a Trump supporter from my message?
Susan
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid On Nov 1, 2016 7:56 AM, Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942@gmail.com <mailto:kenfisher1942@gmail.com>> wrote:
Dear Susan,
Writing to you as a Canadian Christian and 16-year Order member, I am awed by your commitment to American Republicanism and conservative Christianity. How in the world did you spend so much time with the EI/OE/ICA community and have your world view remain unaffected?
From the perspective of Canada, we are 87% supporters of HRC and the image of America she represents. Probably Russia is 87% in favour of Donald.
Each and every ‘crime’ that I have read about that is attributed to Hillary has been most grandly committed by Republicans in previous Bush administrations.
Surely you would agree that Donald Trump is an out and out racist, sexist, homophobe, parochial narcissist and most of all a climate change denier? HRC is none of the above. Thankfully, she is responsive to both Bernie and to Elizabeth. We may get out of this mess yet.
Your phrase: "only values I see are abject greed, a pathological allegiance to lies, and arrogant flaunting of her ability to circumvent the law. She has done absolutely nothing to improve the lives of the poor and disadvantaged yet claims she has in the face of all evidence to the contrary.” is really the truth that the world sees about Trump.
I would invite you to see all that as a projection.
Should Trump take ownership of any of the above, that would be a fine moment of grace. Would you not agree?
Margaret Atwood, (a Canadian poet, novelist, literary critic, essayist, and environmental activist) describes America in the midst of a Salem type witch hunt. I agree. It is, at the bottom a war against women.
While there are indeed my contradictions in American society that both the Republican and Democratic administrations must answer for, the attached article came closest - for me - in describing how the Republican voice has committed itself to an ‘end game’ and it would seem that indeed, the GOP will ‘end’.
Love and best wishes to you, Susan and to all Trump supporters who have been left without any vision other than rebellion or depression.
We are all responsible. Everyone.
Ken in Canada.
A Republican intellectual explains why the Republican Party is going to die http://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/12256510/republican-party-trump-avik-roy <http://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/12256510/republican-party-trump-avik-roy>
On Nov 1, 2016, at 12:03 AM, Susan Fertig via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
Values??? The only values I see are abject greed, a pathological allegiance to lies, and arrogant flaunting of her ability to circumvent the law. She has done absolutely nothing to improve the lives of the poor and disadvantaged yet claims she has in the face of all evidence to the contrary. I've heard for years about this possible connection to EI/ICA, and I truly hope it's not true. It would be a horrible embarrassment to the movement.
Susan
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid On Oct 31, 2016 11:22 PM, William Salmon via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote: Colleagues-- So many raise the question concerning Hillary Clinton's relationship to E.I. I decided to cast this bread upon the waters. The first sign is that while I addressed it to Hillary Clinton, an alternate address popped up. Consequently, it may really get to her attention, to that of some aid. May it be a Kool-Aid. Inner Peace, Bill
Mrs. Hillary Clinton: It is my prayer that this reaches you concerning your experience in 5th City, Chicago, or it could have been in Evanston. Your Youth Director, Don Jones, must have been at a training event to become known as RS-I. About the same time, a large number of us dedicated ourselves to this renewal movement that grew from our experience in Chicago Ghetto to literally embrace the world. It makes me wonder if your experience under his leadership influenced the values you hold dear, and now wish to step onto the platform of the Presidency to do for our United States and for the world what was embraced by the courageous citizens in 5th City. You carry my prayers during this last turbulent week. You have my vote. Grace and Peace, Pastor William E. Salmon 744 So. 10th Salina, KS 67401 wsalmon@cox.net <mailto:wsalmon@cox.net>
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net> _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net> _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net> _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net>_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net> Wilson Priscilla H pris@teamtechpress.com <mailto:pris@teamtechpress.com> www.teamtechpress.com <http://www.teamtechpress.com/>
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Love this, Jon. Thanks. Jann -----Original Message----- From: jonzondo@juno.com via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: isobeljimbish <isobeljimbish@optusnet.com.au>; oe <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: oe <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Tue, Nov 1, 2016 1:37 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. - Dear Susan Dear Group. Jon Elizondo here. Son of Tony and Ellery. Long time "Order kid" and short time Order adult. This conversation is very important, especially with all the perspectives. I will try to hone in now on one of my key points. The change needed in the system is huge. Our current system is incredible broken in so many ways. We are a first world country "purposefully" going backwards by not investing in our infrastructure nor in our people. In my observation and opinion, much of the national frustration shows itself in the desire to elect Trump, or Bernie, or any alternative. The "Cry" for change is massive, and will not let up. One of the traps is either/or thinking. one of the ways forward is both/and/plus-more thinking. One of the traps is "personal attacks". one of the ways forward is "come join us at the table". What I know in my bones is that we are all connected. That mysterious truth, combined with my passion & respect, is my key to intentionally moving forward. Walk in Beauty, Jon ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Isobel Bishop via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Wilson Priscilla H <pris@teamtechpress.com>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. - Dear Susan Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2016 07:23:32 +1100 Thankyou for this conversation, colleagues. I appreciate the Honesty, pain and fear expressed in depth,to give us outsiders some real hope. Thankyou all. In peace and love, Isobel Sent from my iPhone On 2 Nov 2016, at 7:02 am, Wilson Priscilla H via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: No one has said that better, Randy. You should put that on Facebook…so we can all copy your words. Priscilla Wilson On Nov 1, 2016, at 2:35 PM, Joyce Sloan via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Well said, Randy!! On Nov 1, 2016 2:20 PM, "Randy Williams via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: I keep asking, but still have not seen, one shred of verifiable evidence to substantiate the charge that Hillary has committed a criminal act of any sort. She's made serious mistakes like with the private server, she has not been as transparent as she could and perhaps should have been, she got paid a lot of money for some speeches (but less than some men), she's flip-flopped on some positions she's taken like on TPP, she has a super-healthy ego (an asset for a man but a huge liability for a woman in our culture), she didn't play nice when she was First Lady trying to get health care passed, as Secretary of State she traveled the world and spoke truth to power like the Premier of China, and after much gut-wrenching deliberation and prayer she chose to stay true to her vow to her husband of "for better or worse" through "worse." And to add insult to injury, she decided to run to be the first woman in the Office of President of the United States. How dare she. Despise her for all those things and hate all her positions on the issues, but don't accuse her of being a criminal unless you have some rock solid proof that hours and years and millions of dollars worth of hearings, investigations and witch hunts by scores of government agencies, news media and nondescript malcontents have been unable to produce. I've heard the rumors, innuendos, exaggerations, conjecture, gross distortions and outright lies, everything but verifiable truth. Got any? Then let's have it. But double check your sources before you put it out there because there really are some malingering, deplorable liars afoot in the land and a lot of fools are believing them and then repeating what they heard them say and calling it truth, and it just isn't. Randy Sent from my iPad On Nov 1, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Susan Fertig via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Trump was never my choice, and Hillary is a criminal--her vision for the country is my first nightmare. And Trump is just as flawed. Both of them scare me to death. But neither if the other candidates is really an option either. I fear we're about to see this great American experiment in democracy become something no less evil than the many kleptocracies around the world. Susan Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid On Nov 1, 2016 11:55 AM, Judi White <sophiacircle@gmail.com> wrote: Well, what you wrote is what Frumper repeats over and over. Mist who parrot him do support him. I Personally prefer to read responses to a candidates vision for this nation. Also I stand firm in ny admiration which never ceases, of this woman who has continued in spite of the unbelievable accusations which are so blown up out of the real world of truth and honesty that it is cause for seriously asking "Why?". Why the hell bent mission to destroy a solid vision for this nation and this planet? There is no other candidate who shines so brightly and qualified to be an example for our children and grandchildren at this time. Rightly so. On Nov 1, 2016 12:20 PM, "Susan Fertig via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: How in the world did you infer that I must be a Trump supporter from my message? Susan Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid On Nov 1, 2016 7:56 AM, Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942@gmail.com> wrote: Dear Susan, Writing to you as a Canadian Christian and 16-year Order member, I am awed by your commitment to American Republicanism and conservative Christianity. How in the world did you spend so much time with the EI/OE/ICA community and have your world view remain unaffected?
From the perspective of Canada, we are 87% supporters of HRC and the image of America she represents. Probably Russia is 87% in favour of Donald. Each and every ‘crime’ that I have read about that is attributed to Hillary has been most grandly committed by Republicans in previous Bush administrations. Surely you would agree that Donald Trump is an out and out racist, sexist, homophobe, parochial narcissist and most of all a climate change denier? HRC is none of the above. Thankfully, she is responsive to both Bernie and to Elizabeth. We may get out of this mess yet. Your phrase: "only values I see are abject greed, a pathological allegiance to lies, and arrogant flaunting of her ability to circumvent the law. She has done absolutely nothing to improve the lives of the poor and disadvantaged yet claims she has in the face of all evidence to the contrary.” is really the truth that the world sees about Trump. I would invite you to see all that as a projection. Should Trump take ownership of any of the above, that would be a fine moment of grace. Would you not agree? Margaret Atwood, (a Canadian poet, novelist, literary critic, essayist, and environmental activist) describes America in the midst of a Salem type witch hunt. I agree. It is, at the bottom a war against women. While there are indeed my contradictions in American society that both the Republican and Democratic administrations must answer for, the attached article came closest - for me - in describing how the Republican voice has committed itself to an ‘end game’ and it would seem that indeed, the GOP will ‘end’. Love and best wishes to you, Susan and to all Trump supporters who have been left without any vision other than rebellion or depression. We are all responsible. Everyone. Ken in Canada. A Republican intellectual explains why the Republican Party is going to die http://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/12256510/republican-party-trump-avik-roy
On Nov 1, 2016, at 12:03 AM, Susan Fertig via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Values??? The only values I see are abject greed, a pathological allegiance to lies, and arrogant flaunting of her ability to circumvent the law. She has done absolutely nothing to improve the lives of the poor and disadvantaged yet claims she has in the face of all evidence to the contrary. I've heard for years about this possible connection to EI/ICA, and I truly hope it's not true. It would be a horrible embarrassment to the movement. Susan Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid On Oct 31, 2016 11:22 PM, William Salmon via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Colleagues-- So many raise the question concerning Hillary Clinton's relationship to E.I. I decided to cast this bread upon the waters. The first sign is that while I addressed it to Hillary Clinton, an alternate address popped up. Consequently, it may really get to her attention, to that of some aid. May it be a Kool-Aid. Inner Peace, Bill Mrs. Hillary Clinton: It is my prayer that this reaches you concerning your experience in 5th City, Chicago, or it could have been in Evanston. Your Youth Director, Don Jones, must have been at a training event to become known as RS-I. About the same time, a large number of us dedicated ourselves to this renewal movement that grew from our experience in Chicago Ghetto to literally embrace the world. It makes me wonder if your experience under his leadership influenced the values you hold dear, and now wish to step onto the platform of the Presidency to do for our United States and for the world what was embraced by the courageous citizens in 5th City. You carry my prayers during this last turbulent week. You have my vote. Grace and Peace, Pastor William E. Salmon 744 So. 10th Salina, KS 67401 wsalmon@cox.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net Wilson Priscilla H pris@teamtechpress.com www.teamtechpress.com follow me on: Facebook Twitter _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Dido Jon, *The Naked Now* by Richard Rohr is required reading! Len Hockley On 11/1/2016 2:58 PM, via OE wrote:
Love this, Jon. Thanks.
Jann
-----Original Message----- From: jonzondo@juno.com via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: isobeljimbish <isobeljimbish@optusnet.com.au>; oe <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: oe <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Tue, Nov 1, 2016 1:37 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. - Dear Susan
Dear Group. Jon Elizondo here. Son of Tony and Ellery. Long time "Order kid" and short time Order adult.
This conversation is very important, especially with all the perspectives. I will try to hone in now on one of my key points. The change needed in the system is huge. Our current system is incredible broken in so many ways. We are a first world country "purposefully" going backwards by not investing in our infrastructure nor in our people. In my observation and opinion, much of the national frustration shows itself in the desire to elect Trump, or Bernie, or any alternative. The "Cry" for change is massive, and will not let up. One of the traps is either/or thinking. one of the ways forward is both/and/plus-more thinking. One of the traps is "personal attacks". one of the ways forward is "come join us at the table". What I know in my bones is that we are all connected. That mysterious truth, combined with my passion & respect, is my key to intentionally moving forward. Walk in Beauty, Jon
---------- Original Message ---------- From: Isobel Bishop via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> To: Wilson Priscilla H <pris@teamtechpress.com <mailto:pris@teamtechpress.com>>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. - Dear Susan Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2016 07:23:32 +1100
Thankyou for this conversation, colleagues. I appreciate the Honesty, pain and fear expressed in depth,to give us outsiders some real hope. Thankyou all. In peace and love, Isobel Sent from my iPhone
On 2 Nov 2016, at 7:02 am, Wilson Priscilla H via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
No one has said that better, Randy. You should put that on Facebook…so we can all copy your words. Priscilla Wilson
On Nov 1, 2016, at 2:35 PM, Joyce Sloan via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
Well said, Randy!!
On Nov 1, 2016 2:20 PM, "Randy Williams via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
I keep asking, but still have not seen, one shred of verifiable evidence to substantiate the charge that Hillary has committed a criminal act of any sort. She's made serious mistakes like with the private server, she has not been as transparent as she could and perhaps should have been, she got paid a lot of money for some speeches (but less than some men), she's flip-flopped on some positions she's taken like on TPP, she has a super-healthy ego (an asset for a man but a huge liability for a woman in our culture), she didn't play nice when she was First Lady trying to get health care passed, as Secretary of State she traveled the world and spoke truth to power like the Premier of China, and after much gut-wrenching deliberation and prayer she chose to stay true to her vow to her husband of "for better or worse" through "worse." And to add insult to injury, she decided to run to be the first woman in the Office of President of the United States. How dare she. Despise her for all those things and hate all her positions on the issues, but don't accuse her of being a criminal unless you have some rock solid proof that hours and years and millions of dollars worth of hearings, investigations and witch hunts by scores of government agencies, news media and nondescript malcontents have been unable to produce. I've heard the rumors, innuendos, exaggerations, conjecture, gross distortions and outright lies, everything but verifiable truth. Got any? Then let's have it. But double check your sources before you put it out there because there really are some malingering, deplorable liars afoot in the land and a lot of fools are believing them and then repeating what they heard them say and calling it truth, and it just isn't. Randy
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 1, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Susan Fertig via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
Trump was never my choice, and Hillary is a criminal--her vision for the country is my first nightmare. And Trump is just as flawed. Both of them scare me to death. But neither if the other candidates is really an option either. I fear we're about to see this great American experiment in democracy become something no less evil than the many kleptocracies around the world. Susan /Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid/ On Nov 1, 2016 11:55 AM, Judi White <sophiacircle@gmail.com <mailto:sophiacircle@gmail.com>> wrote:
Well, what you wrote is what Frumper repeats over and over. Mist who parrot him do support him. I Personally prefer to read responses to a candidates vision for this nation. Also I stand firm in ny admiration which never ceases, of this woman who has continued in spite of the unbelievable accusations which are so blown up out of the real world of truth and honesty that it is cause for seriously asking "Why?". Why the hell bent mission to destroy a solid vision for this nation and this planet? There is no other candidate who shines so brightly and qualified to be an example for our children and grandchildren at this time. Rightly so.
On Nov 1, 2016 12:20 PM, "Susan Fertig via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
How in the world did you infer that I must be a Trump supporter from my message? Susan /Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid/ On Nov 1, 2016 7:56 AM, Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942@gmail.com <mailto:kenfisher1942@gmail.com>> wrote:
Dear Susan, Writing to you as a Canadian Christian and 16-year Order member, I am awed by your commitment to American Republicanism and conservative Christianity. How in the world did you spend so much time with the EI/OE/ICA community and have your world view remain unaffected? From the perspective of Canada, we are 87% supporters of HRC and the image of America she represents. Probably Russia is 87% in favour of Donald. Each and every ‘crime’ that I have read about that is attributed to Hillary has been most grandly committed by Republicans in previous Bush administrations. Surely you would agree that Donald Trump is an out and out racist, sexist, homophobe, parochial narcissist and most of all a climate change denier? HRC is none of the above. Thankfully, she is responsive to both Bernie and to Elizabeth. We may get out of this mess yet. Your phrase: "only values I see are abject greed, a pathological allegiance to lies, and arrogant flaunting of her ability to circumvent the law. She has done absolutely nothing to improve the lives of the poor and disadvantaged yet claims she has in the face of all evidence to the contrary.” is really the truth that the world sees about Trump. I would invite you to see all that as a projection. Should Trump take ownership of any of the above, that would be a fine moment of grace. Would you not agree? Margaret Atwood, (a Canadian poet, novelist, literary critic, essayist, and environmental activist) describes America in the midst of a Salem type witch hunt. I agree. It is, at the bottom a war against women. While there are indeed my contradictions in American society that both the Republican and Democratic administrations must answer for, the attached article came closest - for me - in describing how the Republican voice has committed itself to an ‘end game’ and it would seem that indeed, the GOP will ‘end’. Love and best wishes to you, Susan and to all Trump supporters who have been left without any vision other than rebellion or depression. We are all responsible. Everyone. Ken in Canada.
A Republican intellectual explains why the Republican Party is going to die
http://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/12256510/republican-party-trump-avik-roy <http://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/12256510/republican-party-trump-avik-roy>
On Nov 1, 2016, at 12:03 AM, Susan Fertig via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
Values??? The only values I see are abject greed, a pathological allegiance to lies, and arrogant flaunting of her ability to circumvent the law. She has done absolutely nothing to improve the lives of the poor and disadvantaged yet claims she has in the face of all evidence to the contrary. I've heard for years about this possible connection to EI/ICA, and I truly hope it's not true. It would be a horrible embarrassment to the movement. Susan /Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid/ On Oct 31, 2016 11:22 PM, William Salmon via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
Colleagues-- So many raise the question concerning Hillary Clinton's relationship to E.I. I decided to cast this bread upon the waters. The first sign is that while I addressed it to Hillary Clinton, an alternate address popped up. Consequently, it may really get to her attention, to that of some aid. May it be a Kool-Aid. Inner Peace, Bill Mrs. Hillary Clinton: It is my prayer that this reaches you concerning your experience in 5th City, Chicago, or it could have been in Evanston. Your Youth Director, Don Jones, must have been at a training event to become known as RS-I. About the same time, a large number of us dedicated ourselves to this renewal movement that grew from our experience in Chicago Ghetto to literally embrace the world. It makes me wonder if your experience under his leadership influenced the values you hold dear, and now wish to step onto the platform of the Presidency to do for our United States and for the world what was embraced by the courageous citizens in 5th City. You carry my prayers during this last turbulent week. You have my vote. Grace and Peace, Pastor William E. Salmon 744 So. 10th Salina, KS 67401 wsalmon@cox.net <mailto:wsalmon@cox.net>
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As an outsider, being in the Order/ICA gave me a close-up viewof the US and how its citizens related to it. In all those years, beginningwith Nixon all the way up to Obama, I’ve seen it invade and destroy nationsaround the world, releasing waves of refugees and other miseries. Butwithin the US, people lived in a cocoon thathelped them avert their eyes. I remember the Vietnam war protesters and the manyyoung people who fled the US in order not to be driven to kill “gooks”overseas. I noticed that at best, we were silent on this and at worst,disapproving. When I look back, I see that the protesters were the “sensitiveand responsive” part that Niebuhr wrote about. I also noticed the hunger amongus to cite links to famous figures while pointing out that to live in the “nolonger and the not-yet” was to be “nobodies”. Perhaps this was the effect of consuming the stories meant for ourframing and fund-raising strategies. I see that same hunger now reflected in recalling somedistant crossing of trails with Hillary Clinton. Americans have been set up bythe political elite to adopt positions around two equally ugly candidates putbefore them for the exercise of their “democratic rights”. For all the emotionsthe Republican-Democrat tension evokes in our emails, election after election, thatrivalry is a sham. This is a nation ruled by a “single party with two factions”.Whichever you praise or denigrate, the real owners of the land always win. Andfor the rest of us around the world, we can only wait for the light from this “beaconon the hill” to eventually fade. Then, perhaps, the US will take its place as an ordinary member in thecommunity of nations. Dharma On Wednesday, 2 November 2016, 7:33, Len Hockley via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Dido Jon, The Naked Now by Richard Rohr is required reading! Len Hockley On 11/1/2016 2:58 PM, via OE wrote: Love this, Jon. Thanks. Jann -----Original Message----- From: jonzondo@juno.com via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: isobeljimbish <isobeljimbish@optusnet.com.au>; oe <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: oe <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Tue, Nov 1, 2016 1:37 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. - Dear Susan Dear Group. Jon Elizondo here. Son of Tony and Ellery. Long time "Order kid" and short time Order adult. This conversation is very important, especially with all the perspectives. I will try to hone in now on one of my key points. The change needed in the system is huge. Our current system is incredible broken in so many ways. We are a first world country "purposefully" going backwards by not investing in our infrastructure nor in our people. In my observation and opinion, much of the national frustration shows itself in the desire to elect Trump, or Bernie, or any alternative. The "Cry" for change is massive, and will not let up. One of the traps is either/or thinking. one of the ways forward is both/and/plus-more thinking. One of the traps is "personal attacks". one of the ways forward is "come join us at the table". What I know in my bones is that we are all connected. That mysterious truth, combined with my passion & respect, is my key to intentionally moving forward. Walk in Beauty, Jon ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Isobel Bishop via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Wilson Priscilla H <pris@teamtechpress.com>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. - Dear Susan Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2016 07:23:32 +1100 Thankyou for this conversation, colleagues. I appreciate the Honesty, pain and fear expressed in depth,to give us outsiders some real hope. Thankyou all. In peace and love, Isobel Sent from my iPhone On 2 Nov 2016, at 7:02 am, Wilson Priscilla H via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: No one has said that better, Randy. You should put that on Facebook…so we can all copy your words. Priscilla Wilson On Nov 1, 2016, at 2:35 PM, Joyce Sloan via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Well said, Randy!! On Nov 1, 2016 2:20 PM, "Randy Williams via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: I keep asking, but still have not seen, one shred of verifiable evidence to substantiate the charge that Hillary has committed a criminal act of any sort. She's made serious mistakes like with the private server, she has not been as transparent as she could and perhaps should have been, she got paid a lot of money for some speeches (but less than some men), she's flip-flopped on some positions she's taken like on TPP, she has a super-healthy ego (an asset for a man but a huge liability for a woman in our culture), she didn't play nice when she was First Lady trying to get health care passed, as Secretary of State she traveled the world and spoke truth to power like the Premier of China, and after much gut-wrenching deliberation and prayer she chose to stay true to her vow to her husband of "for better or worse" through "worse." And to add insult to injury, she decided to run to be the first woman in the Office of President of the United States. How dare she. Despise her for all those things and hate all her positions on the issues, but don't accuse her of being a criminal unless you have some rock solid proof that hours and years and millions of dollars worth of hearings, investigations and witch hunts by scores of government agencies, news media and nondescript malcontents have been unable to produce. I've heard the rumors, innuendos, exaggerations, conjecture, gross distortions and outright lies, everything but verifiable truth. Got any? Then let's have it. But double check your sources before you put it out there because there really are some malingering, deplorable liars afoot in the land and a lot of fools are believing them and then repeating what they heard them say and calling it truth, and it just isn't. Randy Sent from my iPad On Nov 1, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Susan Fertig via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Trump was never my choice, and Hillary is a criminal--her vision for the country is my first nightmare. And Trump is just as flawed. Both of them scare me to death. But neither if the other candidates is really an option either. I fear we're about to see this great American experiment in democracy become something no less evil than the many kleptocracies around the world. Susan Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid On Nov 1, 2016 11:55 AM, Judi White <sophiacircle@gmail.com> wrote: Well, what you wrote is what Frumper repeats over and over. Mist who parrot him do support him. I Personally prefer to read responses to a candidates vision for this nation. Also I stand firm in ny admiration which never ceases, of this woman who has continued in spite of the unbelievable accusations which are so blown up out of the real world of truth and honesty that it is cause for seriously asking "Why?". Why the hell bent mission to destroy a solid vision for this nation and this planet? There is no other candidate who shines so brightly and qualified to be an example for our children and grandchildren at this time. Rightly so. On Nov 1, 2016 12:20 PM, "Susan Fertig via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: How in the world did you infer that I must be a Trump supporter from my message? Susan Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid On Nov 1, 2016 7:56 AM, Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942@gmail.com> wrote: Dear Susan, Writing to you as a Canadian Christian and 16-year Order member, I am awed by your commitment to American Republicanism and conservative Christianity. How in the world did you spend so much time with the EI/OE/ICA community and have your world view remain unaffected? From the perspective of Canada, we are 87% supporters of HRC and the image of America she represents. Probably Russia is 87% in favour of Donald. Each and every ‘crime’ that I have read about that is attributed to Hillary has been most grandly committed by Republicans in previous Bushadministrations. Surely you would agree that Donald Trump is an out and out racist, sexist, homophobe, parochial narcissist and most of all a climate change denier? HRC is none of the above. Thankfully, she is responsive to both Bernie and to Elizabeth. We may get out of this mess yet. Your phrase: "only values I see are abject greed, a pathological allegiance to lies, and arrogant flaunting of her ability to circumvent the law. She has done absolutely nothing to improve the lives of the poor and disadvantaged yet claims she has in the face of all evidence to the contrary.” is really the truth that the world sees about Trump. I would invite you to see all that as a projection. Should Trump take ownership of any of the above, that would be a fine moment of grace. Would you not agree? Margaret Atwood, (a Canadian poet, novelist, literary critic, essayist, and environmental activist) describes America in the midst of a Salem type witch hunt. I agree. It is, at the bottom a war against women. While there are indeed my contradictions in American society that both the Republican and Democratic administrations must answer for, the attached article came closest - for me - in describing how the Republican voice has committed itself to an ‘end game’ and it would seem that indeed, the GOP will ‘end’. Love and best wishes to you, Susan and to all Trump supporters who have been left without any vision other than rebellion or depression. We are all responsible. Everyone. Ken in Canada. A Republican intellectual explains why the Republican Party is going to die http://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/1 2256510/republican-party-trump -avik-roy On Nov 1, 2016, at 12:03 AM, Susan Fertig via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Values??? The only values I see are abject greed, a pathological allegiance to lies, and arrogant flaunting of her ability to circumvent the law. She has done absolutely nothing to improve the lives of the poor and disadvantaged yet claims she has in the face of all evidence to the contrary. I've heard for years about this possible connection to EI/ICA, and I truly hope it's not true. It would be a horrible embarrassment to the movement. Susan Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid On Oct 31, 2016 11:22 PM, William Salmon via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Colleagues-- So many raise the question concerning Hillary Clinton's relationship to E.I. I decided to cast this bread upon the waters. The first sign is that while I addressed it to Hillary Clinton, an alternate address popped up. Consequently, it may really get to her attention, to that of some aid. May it be a Kool-Aid. Inner Peace, Bill Mrs. Hillary Clinton: It is my prayer that this reaches you concerning your experience in 5th City, Chicago, or it could have been in Evanston. Your Youth Director, Don Jones, must have been at a training event to become known as RS-I. About the same time, a large number of us dedicated ourselves to this renewal movement that grew from our experience in Chicago Ghetto to literally embrace the world. It makes me wonder if your experience under his leadership influenced the values you hold dear, and now wish to step onto the platform of the Presidency to do for our United States and for the world what was embraced by the courageous citizens in 5th City. You carry my prayers during this last turbulent week. You have my vote. Grace and Peace, Pastor William E. Salmon 744 So. 10th Salina, KS 67401 wsalmon@cox.net ______________________________ _________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/li stinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net ______________________________ _________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/li stinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net ______________________________ _________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/ listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net ______________________________ _________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/ listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net Wilson Priscilla H pris@teamtechpress.com www.teamtechpress.com follow me on: Facebook Twitter _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Very insightful, Dharma. The US needs a huge and profound awakening to our effects on other nations. Thank you, Nancy Trask From: OE [mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2016 8:16 PM To: Len Hockley <LCHockley@gmail.com>; laurelcg@aol.com; Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. - Dear Susan As an outsider, being in the Order/ICA gave me a close-up view of the US and how its citizens related to it. In all those years, beginning with Nixon all the way up to Obama, I’ve seen it invade and destroy nations around the world, releasing waves of refugees and other miseries. But within the US, people lived in a cocoon that helped them avert their eyes. I remember the Vietnam war protesters and the many young people who fled the US in order not to be driven to kill “gooks” overseas. I noticed that at best, we were silent on this and at worst, disapproving. When I look back, I see that the protesters were the “sensitive and responsive” part that Niebuhr wrote about. I also noticed the hunger among us to cite links to famous figures while pointing out that to live in the “no longer and the not-yet” was to be “nobodies”. Perhaps this was the effect of consuming the stories meant for our framing and fund-raising strategies. I see that same hunger now reflected in recalling some distant crossing of trails with Hillary Clinton. Americans have been set up by the political elite to adopt positions around two equally ugly candidates put before them for the exercise of their “democratic rights”. For all the emotions the Republican-Democrat tension evokes in our emails, election after election, that rivalry is a sham. This is a nation ruled by a “single party with two factions”. Whichever you praise or denigrate, the real owners of the land always win. And for the rest of us around the world, we can only wait for the light from this “beacon on the hill” to eventually fade. Then, perhaps, the US will take its place as an ordinary member in the community of nations. Dharma On Wednesday, 2 November 2016, 7:33, Len Hockley via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> > wrote: Dido Jon, The Naked Now by Richard Rohr is required reading! Len Hockley On 11/1/2016 2:58 PM, via OE wrote: Love this, Jon. Thanks. Jann -----Original Message----- From: jonzondo@juno.com <mailto:jonzondo@juno.com> via OE <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: isobeljimbish <mailto:isobeljimbish@optusnet.com.au> <isobeljimbish@optusnet.com.au>; oe <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: oe <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Tue, Nov 1, 2016 1:37 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. - Dear Susan Dear Group. Jon Elizondo here. Son of Tony and Ellery. Long time "Order kid" and short time Order adult. This conversation is very important, especially with all the perspectives. I will try to hone in now on one of my key points. The change needed in the system is huge. Our current system is incredible broken in so many ways. We are a first world country "purposefully" going backwards by not investing in our infrastructure nor in our people. In my observation and opinion, much of the national frustration shows itself in the desire to elect Trump, or Bernie, or any alternative. The "Cry" for change is massive, and will not let up. One of the traps is either/or thinking. one of the ways forward is both/and/plus-more thinking. One of the traps is "personal attacks". one of the ways forward is "come join us at the table". What I know in my bones is that we are all connected. That mysterious truth, combined with my passion & respect, is my key to intentionally moving forward. Walk in Beauty, Jon ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Isobel Bishop via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> > To: Wilson Priscilla H <pris@teamtechpress.com <mailto:pris@teamtechpress.com> >, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> > Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. - Dear Susan Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2016 07:23:32 +1100 Thankyou for this conversation, colleagues. I appreciate the Honesty, pain and fear expressed in depth,to give us outsiders some real hope. Thankyou all. In peace and love, Isobel Sent from my iPhone On 2 Nov 2016, at 7:02 am, Wilson Priscilla H via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> > wrote: No one has said that better, Randy. You should put that on Facebook…so we can all copy your words. Priscilla Wilson On Nov 1, 2016, at 2:35 PM, Joyce Sloan via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> > wrote: Well said, Randy!! On Nov 1, 2016 2:20 PM, "Randy Williams via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> > wrote: I keep asking, but still have not seen, one shred of verifiable evidence to substantiate the charge that Hillary has committed a criminal act of any sort. She's made serious mistakes like with the private server, she has not been as transparent as she could and perhaps should have been, she got paid a lot of money for some speeches (but less than some men), she's flip-flopped on some positions she's taken like on TPP, she has a super-healthy ego (an asset for a man but a huge liability for a woman in our culture), she didn't play nice when she was First Lady trying to get health care passed, as Secretary of State she traveled the world and spoke truth to power like the Premier of China, and after much gut-wrenching deliberation and prayer she chose to stay true to her vow to her husband of "for better or worse" through "worse." And to add insult to injury, she decided to run to be the first woman in the Office of President of the United States. How dare she. Despise her for all those things and hate all her positions on the issues, but don't accuse her of being a criminal unless you have some rock solid proof that hours and years and millions of dollars worth of hearings, investigations and witch hunts by scores of government agencies, news media and nondescript malcontents have been unable to produce. I've heard the rumors, innuendos, exaggerations, conjecture, gross distortions and outright lies, everything but verifiable truth. Got any? Then let's have it. But double check your sources before you put it out there because there really are some malingering, deplorable liars afoot in the land and a lot of fools are believing them and then repeating what they heard them say and calling it truth, and it just isn't. Randy Sent from my iPad On Nov 1, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Susan Fertig via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> > wrote: Trump was never my choice, and Hillary is a criminal--her vision for the country is my first nightmare. And Trump is just as flawed. Both of them scare me to death. But neither if the other candidates is really an option either. I fear we're about to see this great American experiment in democracy become something no less evil than the many kleptocracies around the world. Susan Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid On Nov 1, 2016 11:55 AM, Judi White <sophiacircle@gmail.com <mailto:sophiacircle@gmail.com> > wrote: Well, what you wrote is what Frumper repeats over and over. Mist who parrot him do support him. I Personally prefer to read responses to a candidates vision for this nation. Also I stand firm in ny admiration which never ceases, of this woman who has continued in spite of the unbelievable accusations which are so blown up out of the real world of truth and honesty that it is cause for seriously asking "Why?". Why the hell bent mission to destroy a solid vision for this nation and this planet? There is no other candidate who shines so brightly and qualified to be an example for our children and grandchildren at this time. Rightly so. On Nov 1, 2016 12:20 PM, "Susan Fertig via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> > wrote: How in the world did you infer that I must be a Trump supporter from my message? Susan Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid On Nov 1, 2016 7:56 AM, Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942@gmail.com <mailto:kenfisher1942@gmail.com> > wrote: Dear Susan, Writing to you as a Canadian Christian and 16-year Order member, I am awed by your commitment to American Republicanism and conservative Christianity. How in the world did you spend so much time with the EI/OE/ICA community and have your world view remain unaffected?
From the perspective of Canada, we are 87% supporters of HRC and the image of America she represents. Probably Russia is 87% in favour of Donald.
Each and every ‘crime’ that I have read about that is attributed to Hillary has been most grandly committed by Republicans in previous Bush administrations. Surely you would agree that Donald Trump is an out and out racist, sexist, homophobe, parochial narcissist and most of all a climate change denier? HRC is none of the above. Thankfully, she is responsive to both Bernie and to Elizabeth. We may get out of this mess yet. Your phrase: "only values I see are abject greed, a pathological allegiance to lies, and arrogant flaunting of her ability to circumvent the law. She has done absolutely nothing to improve the lives of the poor and disadvantaged yet claims she has in the face of all evidence to the contrary.” is really the truth that the world sees about Trump. I would invite you to see all that as a projection. Should Trump take ownership of any of the above, that would be a fine moment of grace. Would you not agree? Margaret Atwood, (a Canadian poet, novelist, literary critic, essayist, and environmental activist) describes America in the midst of a Salem type witch hunt. I agree. It is, at the bottom a war against women. While there are indeed my contradictions in American society that both the Republican and Democratic administrations must answer for, the attached article came closest - for me - in describing how the Republican voice has committed itself to an ‘end game’ and it would seem that indeed, the GOP will ‘end’. Love and best wishes to you, Susan and to all Trump supporters who have been left without any vision other than rebellion or depression. We are all responsible. Everyone. Ken in Canada. A Republican intellectual explains why the Republican Party is going to die http://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/1 2256510/republican-party-trump -avik-roy <http://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/12256510/republican-party-trump-avik-roy> On Nov 1, 2016, at 12:03 AM, Susan Fertig via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> > wrote: Values??? The only values I see are abject greed, a pathological allegiance to lies, and arrogant flaunting of her ability to circumvent the law. She has done absolutely nothing to improve the lives of the poor and disadvantaged yet claims she has in the face of all evidence to the contrary. I've heard for years about this possible connection to EI/ICA, and I truly hope it's not true. It would be a horrible embarrassment to the movement. Susan Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid On Oct 31, 2016 11:22 PM, William Salmon via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> > wrote: Colleagues-- So many raise the question concerning Hillary Clinton's relationship to E.I. I decided to cast this bread upon the waters. The first sign is that while I addressed it to Hillary Clinton, an alternate address popped up. Consequently, it may really get to her attention, to that of some aid. May it be a Kool-Aid. Inner Peace, Bill Mrs. Hillary Clinton: It is my prayer that this reaches you concerning your experience in 5th City, Chicago, or it could have been in Evanston. Your Youth Director, Don Jones, must have been at a training event to become known as RS-I. About the same time, a large number of us dedicated ourselves to this renewal movement that grew from our experience in Chicago Ghetto to literally embrace the world. It makes me wonder if your experience under his leadership influenced the values you hold dear, and now wish to step onto the platform of the Presidency to do for our United States and for the world what was embraced by the courageous citizens in 5th City. You carry my prayers during this last turbulent week. You have my vote. Grace and Peace, Pastor William E. Salmon 744 So. 10th Salina, KS 67401 wsalmon@cox.net <mailto:wsalmon@cox.net> ______________________________ _________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/li stinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net> ______________________________ _________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/li stinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net> ______________________________ _________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/ listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net> ______________________________ _________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/ listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net> _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net Wilson Priscilla H pris@teamtechpress.com <mailto:pris@teamtechpress.com> www.teamtechpress.com <http://www.teamtechpress.com/> follow me on: Facebook Twitter _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Dear colleagues, It appears we the electorate have on our hands two imperfect and flawed human beings who happen to be racing from the back of the ship of state to command the Captain's Wheel where they can keep the ship aright and turn it as necessary. We put our trust in the one with the most comprehensive, intentional and futuric map over the sea of life be it tranquil or tumultuous. We also deign to follow the one with the most inclusive vision and understanding of the strategies, tactics, etc. to deal with the moral contradiction as faced by diverse communities at various strata of being (from displaced to developed). I find myself asking the question: Which candidate is best prepared to repent on behalf of the community writ large that struggles to inject and focus care into structural E-C-P renewal and work with those who are ready to demonstrate a primary concern for the betterment of our planet on behalf of the world? Grace & Peace, Dawn Collins We love the Source because the Source first loved us.- 1 John 4:19 From: Nancy Trask via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: 'Dharmalingam Vinasithamby' <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com>; 'Order Ecumenical Community' <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2016 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. - Dear Susan <!--#yiv4995027334 _filtered #yiv4995027334 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;} _filtered #yiv4995027334 {font-family:"Cambria Math";panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv4995027334 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv4995027334 {font-family:Consolas;panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv4995027334 {font-family:Verdana;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv4995027334 #yiv4995027334 p.yiv4995027334MsoNormal, #yiv4995027334 li.yiv4995027334MsoNormal, #yiv4995027334 div.yiv4995027334MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman", serif;}#yiv4995027334 h1 {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman", serif;}#yiv4995027334 a:link, #yiv4995027334 span.yiv4995027334MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4995027334 a:visited, #yiv4995027334 span.yiv4995027334MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv4995027334 pre {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";}#yiv4995027334 p.yiv4995027334msonormal0, #yiv4995027334 li.yiv4995027334msonormal0, #yiv4995027334 div.yiv4995027334msonormal0 {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman", serif;}#yiv4995027334 span.yiv4995027334Heading1Char {font-family:"Calibri Light", sans-serif;color:#2E74B5;}#yiv4995027334 span.yiv4995027334HTMLPreformattedChar {font-family:"Consolas", serif;}#yiv4995027334 span.yiv4995027334EmailStyle22 {font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif;color:windowtext;}#yiv4995027334 .yiv4995027334MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv4995027334 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv4995027334 div.yiv4995027334WordSection1 {}-->Very insightful, Dharma. The US needs a huge and profound awakening to our effects on other nations.Thank you,Nancy Trask From: OE [mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2016 8:16 PM To: Len Hockley <LCHockley@gmail.com>; laurelcg@aol.com; Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. - Dear Susan As an outsider, being in the Order/ICA gave me a close-up view of the US and how its citizens related to it. In all those years, beginning with Nixon all the way up to Obama, I’ve seen it invade and destroy nations around the world, releasing waves of refugees and other miseries. But within the US, people lived in a cocoon that helped them avert their eyes. I remember the Vietnam war protesters and the many young people who fled the US in order not to be driven to kill “gooks” overseas. I noticed that at best, we were silent on this and at worst, disapproving. When I look back, I see that the protesters were the “sensitive and responsive” part that Niebuhr wrote about. I also noticed the hunger among us to cite links to famous figures while pointing out that to live in the “no longer and the not-yet” was to be “nobodies”. Perhaps this was the effect of consuming the stories meant for our framing and fund-raising strategies. I see that same hunger now reflected in recalling some distant crossing of trails with Hillary Clinton. Americans have been set up by the political elite to adopt positions around two equally ugly candidates put before them for the exercise of their “democratic rights”. For all the emotions the Republican-Democrat tension evokes in our emails, election after election, that rivalry is a sham. This is a nation ruled by a “single party with two factions”. Whichever you praise or denigrate, the real owners of the land always win. And for the rest of us around the world, we can only wait for the light from this “beacon on the hill” to eventually fade. Then, perhaps, the US will take its place as an ordinary member in the community of nations. Dharma On Wednesday, 2 November 2016, 7:33, Len Hockley via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Dido Jon, The Naked Now by Richard Rohr is required reading! Len Hockley On 11/1/2016 2:58 PM, via OE wrote: Love this, Jon. Thanks. Jann -----Original Message----- From: jonzondo@juno.com via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: isobeljimbish <isobeljimbish@optusnet.com.au>; oe <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: oe <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Tue, Nov 1, 2016 1:37 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. - Dear SusanDear Group. Jon Elizondo here. Son of Tony and Ellery. Long time "Order kid" and short time Order adult. This conversation is very important, especially with all the perspectives. I will try to hone in now on one of my key points. The change needed in the system is huge. Our current system is incredible broken in so many ways. We are a first world country "purposefully" going backwards by not investing in our infrastructure nor in our people. In my observation and opinion, much of the national frustration shows itself in the desire to elect Trump, or Bernie, or any alternative. The "Cry" for change is massive, and will not let up. One of the traps is either/or thinking. one of the ways forward is both/and/plus-more thinking. One of the traps is "personal attacks". one of the ways forward is "come join us at the table". What I know in my bones is that we are all connected. That mysterious truth, combined with my passion & respect, is my key to intentionally moving forward. Walk in Beauty,Jon ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Isobel Bishop via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Wilson Priscilla H <pris@teamtechpress.com>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. - Dear Susan Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2016 07:23:32 +1100Thankyou for this conversation, colleagues. I appreciate the Honesty, pain and fear expressed indepth,to give us outsiders some real hope. Thankyou all.In peace and love,Isobel Sent from my iPhone On 2 Nov 2016, at 7:02 am, Wilson Priscilla H via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: No one has said that better, Randy. You should put that on Facebook…so we can all copy your words. Priscilla Wilson On Nov 1, 2016, at 2:35 PM, Joyce Sloan via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:Well said, Randy!! On Nov 1, 2016 2:20 PM, "Randy Williams via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: I keep asking, but still have not seen, one shred of verifiable evidence to substantiate the charge that Hillary has committed a criminal act of any sort. She's made serious mistakes like with the private server, she has not been as transparent as she could and perhaps should have been, she got paid a lot of money for some speeches (but less than some men), she's flip-flopped on some positions she's taken like on TPP, she has a super-healthy ego (an asset for a man but a huge liability for a woman in our culture), she didn't play nice when she was First Lady trying to get health care passed, as Secretary of State she traveled the world and spoke truth to power like the Premier of China, and after much gut-wrenching deliberation and prayer she chose to stay true to her vow to her husband of "for better or worse" through "worse." And to add insult to injury, she decided to run to be the first woman in the Office of President of the United States. How dare she. Despise her for all those things and hate all her positions on the issues, but don't accuse her of being a criminal unless you have some rock solid proof that hours and years and millions of dollars worth of hearings, investigations and witch hunts by scores of government agencies, news media and nondescript malcontents have been unable to produce. I've heard the rumors, innuendos, exaggerations, conjecture, gross distortions and outright lies, everything but verifiable truth. Got any? Then let's have it. But double check your sources before you put it out there because there really are some malingering, deplorable liars afoot in the land and a lot of fools are believing them and then repeating what they heard them say and calling it truth, and it just isn't. Randy Sent from my iPad On Nov 1, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Susan Fertig via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Trump was never my choice, and Hillary is a criminal--her vision for the country is my first nightmare. And Trump is just as flawed. Both of them scare me to death. But neither if the other candidates is really an option either. I fear we're about to see this great American experiment in democracy become something no less evil than the many kleptocracies around the world. Susan Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE DroidOn Nov 1, 2016 11:55 AM, Judi White <sophiacircle@gmail.com> wrote: Well, what you wrote is what Frumper repeats over and over. Mist who parrot him do support him. I Personally prefer to read responses to a candidates vision for this nation. Also I stand firm in ny admiration which never ceases, of this woman who has continued in spite of the unbelievable accusations which are so blown up out of the real world of truth and honesty that it is cause for seriously asking "Why?". Why the hell bent mission to destroy a solid vision for this nation and this planet? There is no other candidate who shines so brightly and qualified to be an example for our children and grandchildren at this time. Rightly so. On Nov 1, 2016 12:20 PM, "Susan Fertig via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: How in the world did you infer that I must be a Trump supporter from my message? Susan Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE DroidOn Nov 1, 2016 7:56 AM, Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942@gmail.com> wrote: Dear Susan, Writing to you as a Canadian Christian and 16-year Order member, I am awed by your commitment to American Republicanism and conservative Christianity. How in the world did you spend so much time with the EI/OE/ICA community and have your world view remain unaffected? From the perspective of Canada, we are 87% supporters of HRC and the image of America she represents. Probably Russia is 87% in favour of Donald. Each and every ‘crime’ that I have read about that is attributed to Hillary has been most grandly committed by Republicans in previous Bush administrations. Surely you would agree that Donald Trump is an out and out racist, sexist, homophobe, parochial narcissist and most of all a climate change denier? HRC is none of the above. Thankfully, she is responsive to both Bernie and to Elizabeth. We may get out of this mess yet. Your phrase: "only values I see are abject greed, a pathological allegiance to lies, and arrogant flaunting of her ability to circumvent the law. She has done absolutely nothing to improve the lives of the poor and disadvantaged yet claims she has in the face of all evidence to the contrary.” is really the truth that the world sees about Trump. I would invite you to see all that as a projection. Should Trump take ownership of any of the above, that would be a fine moment of grace. Would you not agree? Margaret Atwood, (a Canadian poet, novelist, literary critic, essayist, and environmental activist) describes America in the midst of a Salem type witch hunt. I agree. It is, at the bottom a war against women. While there are indeed my contradictions in American society that both the Republican and Democratic administrations must answer for, the attached article came closest - for me - in describing how the Republican voice has committed itself to an ‘end game’ and it would seem that indeed, the GOP will ‘end’. Love and best wishes to you, Susan and to all Trump supporters who have been left without any vision other than rebellion or depression. We are all responsible. Everyone. Ken in Canada. A Republican intellectual explains why the Republican Party is going to die http://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/1 2256510/republican-party-trump -avik-roy On Nov 1, 2016, at 12:03 AM, Susan Fertig via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Values??? The only values I see are abject greed, a pathological allegiance to lies, and arrogant flaunting of her ability to circumvent the law. She has done absolutely nothing to improve the lives of the poor and disadvantaged yet claims she has in the face of all evidence to the contrary. I've heard for years about this possible connection to EI/ICA, and I truly hope it's not true. It would be a horrible embarrassment to the movement. Susan Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE DroidOn Oct 31, 2016 11:22 PM, William Salmon via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Colleagues-- So many raise the question concerning Hillary Clinton's relationship to E.I. I decided to cast this bread upon the waters. The first sign is that while I addressed it to Hillary Clinton, an alternate address popped up. Consequently, it may really get to her attention, to that of some aid. May it be a Kool-Aid. Inner Peace, Bill Mrs. Hillary Clinton: It is my prayer that this reaches you concerning your experience in 5th City, Chicago, or it could have been in Evanston. Your Youth Director, Don Jones, must have been at a training event to become known as RS-I. About the same time, a large number of us dedicated ourselves to this renewal movement that grew from our experience in Chicago Ghetto to literally embrace the world. It makes me wonder if your experience under his leadership influenced the values you hold dear, and now wish to step onto the platform of the Presidency to do for our United States and for the world what was embraced by the courageous citizens in 5th City. You carry my prayers during this last turbulent week. You have my vote. Grace and Peace, Pastor William E. Salmon 744 So. 10th Salina, KS 67401 wsalmon@cox.net ______________________________ _________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/li stinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net ______________________________ _________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/li stinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net ______________________________ _________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/ listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net ______________________________ _________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/ listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net Wilson Priscilla Hpris@teamtechpress.comwww.teamtechpress.com follow me on:FacebookTwitter _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________OE mailing listOE@lists.wedgeblade.nethttp://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Thanks for this very helpful insight, Dharma. As we are consumed with the rancor between left and right in this country, the broader view calls us to consider what issues deserve our attention when it comes to being compassionate and responsible world citizens. Catherine Welch, Denver From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 7:16 PM To: Len Hockley ; laurelcg@aol.com ; Order Ecumenical Community ; Order Ecumenical Community Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. -Dear Susan As an outsider, being in the Order/ICA gave me a close-up view of the US and how its citizens related to it. In all those years, beginning with Nixon all the way up to Obama, I’ve seen it invade and destroy nations around the world, releasing waves of refugees and other miseries. But within the US, people lived in a cocoon that helped them avert their eyes. I remember the Vietnam war protesters and the many young people who fled the US in order not to be driven to kill “gooks” overseas. I noticed that at best, we were silent on this and at worst, disapproving. When I look back, I see that the protesters were the “sensitive and responsive” part that Niebuhr wrote about. I also noticed the hunger among us to cite links to famous figures while pointing out that to live in the “no longer and the not-yet” was to be “nobodies”. Perhaps this was the effect of consuming the stories meant for our framing and fund-raising strategies. I see that same hunger now reflected in recalling some distant crossing of trails with Hillary Clinton. Americans have been set up by the political elite to adopt positions around two equally ugly candidates put before them for the exercise of their “democratic rights”. For all the emotions the Republican-Democrat tension evokes in our emails, election after election, that rivalry is a sham. This is a nation ruled by a “single party with two factions”. Whichever you praise or denigrate, the real owners of the land always win. And for the rest of us around the world, we can only wait for the light from this “beacon on the hill” to eventually fade. Then, perhaps, the US will take its place as an ordinary member in the community of nations. Dharma On Wednesday, 2 November 2016, 7:33, Len Hockley via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Dido Jon, The Naked Now by Richard Rohr is required reading! Len Hockley On 11/1/2016 2:58 PM, via OE wrote: Love this, Jon. Thanks. Jann -----Original Message----- From: jonzondo@juno.com via OE mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net To: isobeljimbish mailto:isobeljimbish@optusnet.com.au; oe mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net Cc: oe mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net Sent: Tue, Nov 1, 2016 1:37 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. - Dear Susan Dear Group. Jon Elizondo here. Son of Tony and Ellery. Long time "Order kid" and short time Order adult. This conversation is very important, especially with all the perspectives. I will try to hone in now on one of my key points. The change needed in the system is huge. Our current system is incredible broken in so many ways. We are a first world country "purposefully" going backwards by not investing in our infrastructure nor in our people. In my observation and opinion, much of the national frustration shows itself in the desire to elect Trump, or Bernie, or any alternative. The "Cry" for change is massive, and will not let up. One of the traps is either/or thinking. one of the ways forward is both/and/plus-more thinking. One of the traps is "personal attacks". one of the ways forward is "come join us at the table". What I know in my bones is that we are all connected. That mysterious truth, combined with my passion & respect, is my key to intentionally moving forward. Walk in Beauty, Jon ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Isobel Bishop via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Wilson Priscilla H <pris@teamtechpress.com>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. - Dear Susan Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2016 07:23:32 +1100 Thankyou for this conversation, colleagues. I appreciate the Honesty, pain and fear expressed in depth,to give us outsiders some real hope. Thankyou all. In peace and love, Isobel Sent from my iPhone On 2 Nov 2016, at 7:02 am, Wilson Priscilla H via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: No one has said that better, Randy. You should put that on Facebook…so we can all copy your words. Priscilla Wilson On Nov 1, 2016, at 2:35 PM, Joyce Sloan via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Well said, Randy!! On Nov 1, 2016 2:20 PM, "Randy Williams via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: I keep asking, but still have not seen, one shred of verifiable evidence to substantiate the charge that Hillary has committed a criminal act of any sort. She's made serious mistakes like with the private server, she has not been as transparent as she could and perhaps should have been, she got paid a lot of money for some speeches (but less than some men), she's flip-flopped on some positions she's taken like on TPP, she has a super-healthy ego (an asset for a man but a huge liability for a woman in our culture), she didn't play nice when she was First Lady trying to get health care passed, as Secretary of State she traveled the world and spoke truth to power like the Premier of China, and after much gut-wrenching deliberation and prayer she chose to stay true to her vow to her husband of "for better or worse" through "worse." And to add insult to injury, she decided to run to be the first woman in the Office of President of the United States. How dare she. Despise her for all those things and hate all her positions on the issues, but don't accuse her of being a criminal unless you have some rock solid proof that hours and years and millions of dollars worth of hearings, investigations and witch hunts by scores of government agencies, news media and nondescript malcontents have been unable to produce. I've heard the rumors, innuendos, exaggerations, conjecture, gross distortions and outright lies, everything but verifiable truth. Got any? Then let's have it. But double check your sources before you put it out there because there really are some malingering, deplorable liars afoot in the land and a lot of fools are believing them and then repeating what they heard them say and calling it truth, and it just isn't. Randy Sent from my iPad On Nov 1, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Susan Fertig via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Trump was never my choice, and Hillary is a criminal--her vision for the country is my first nightmare. And Trump is just as flawed. Both of them scare me to death. But neither if the other candidates is really an option either. I fear we're about to see this great American experiment in democracy become something no less evil than the many kleptocracies around the world. Susan Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid On Nov 1, 2016 11:55 AM, Judi White <sophiacircle@gmail.com> wrote: Well, what you wrote is what Frumper repeats over and over. Mist who parrot him do support him. I Personally prefer to read responses to a candidates vision for this nation. Also I stand firm in ny admiration which never ceases, of this woman who has continued in spite of the unbelievable accusations which are so blown up out of the real world of truth and honesty that it is cause for seriously asking "Why?". Why the hell bent mission to destroy a solid vision for this nation and this planet? There is no other candidate who shines so brightly and qualified to be an example for our children and grandchildren at this time. Rightly so. On Nov 1, 2016 12:20 PM, "Susan Fertig via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: How in the world did you infer that I must be a Trump supporter from my message? Susan Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid On Nov 1, 2016 7:56 AM, Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942@gmail.com> wrote: Dear Susan, Writing to you as a Canadian Christian and 16-year Order member, I am awed by your commitment to American Republicanism and conservative Christianity. How in the world did you spend so much time with the EI/OE/ICA community and have your world view remain unaffected? From the perspective of Canada, we are 87% supporters of HRC and the image of America she represents. Probably Russia is 87% in favour of Donald. Each and every ‘crime’ that I have read about that is attributed to Hillary has been most grandly committed by Republicans in previous Bush administrations. Surely you would agree that Donald Trump is an out and out racist, sexist, homophobe, parochial narcissist and most of all a climate change denier? HRC is none of the above. Thankfully, she is responsive to both Bernie and to Elizabeth. We may get out of this mess yet. Your phrase: "only values I see are abject greed, a pathological allegiance to lies, and arrogant flaunting of her ability to circumvent the law. She has done absolutely nothing to improve the lives of the poor and disadvantaged yet claims she has in the face of all evidence to the contrary.” is really the truth that the world sees about Trump. I would invite you to see all that as a projection. Should Trump take ownership of any of the above, that would be a fine moment of grace. Would you not agree? Margaret Atwood, (a Canadian poet, novelist, literary critic, essayist, and environmental activist) describes America in the midst of a Salem type witch hunt. I agree. It is, at the bottom a war against women. While there are indeed my contradictions in American society that both the Republican and Democratic administrations must answer for, the attached article came closest - for me - in describing how the Republican voice has committed itself to an ‘end game’ and it would seem that indeed, the GOP will ‘end’. Love and best wishes to you, Susan and to all Trump supporters who have been left without any vision other than rebellion or depression. We are all responsible. Everyone. Ken in Canada. A Republican intellectual explains why the Republican Party is going to die http://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/1 2256510/republican-party-trump -avik-roy On Nov 1, 2016, at 12:03 AM, Susan Fertig via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Values??? The only values I see are abject greed, a pathological allegiance to lies, and arrogant flaunting of her ability to circumvent the law. She has done absolutely nothing to improve the lives of the poor and disadvantaged yet claims she has in the face of all evidence to the contrary. I've heard for years about this possible connection to EI/ICA, and I truly hope it's not true. It would be a horrible embarrassment to the movement. Susan Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid On Oct 31, 2016 11:22 PM, William Salmon via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Colleagues-- So many raise the question concerning Hillary Clinton's relationship to E.I. I decided to cast this bread upon the waters. The first sign is that while I addressed it to Hillary Clinton, an alternate address popped up. Consequently, it may really get to her attention, to that of some aid. May it be a Kool-Aid. Inner Peace, Bill Mrs. Hillary Clinton: It is my prayer that this reaches you concerning your experience in 5th City, Chicago, or it could have been in Evanston. Your Youth Director, Don Jones, must have been at a training event to become known as RS-I. About the same time, a large number of us dedicated ourselves to this renewal movement that grew from our experience in Chicago Ghetto to literally embrace the world. It makes me wonder if your experience under his leadership influenced the values you hold dear, and now wish to step onto the platform of the Presidency to do for our United States and for the world what was embraced by the courageous citizens in 5th City. You carry my prayers during this last turbulent week. You have my vote. Grace and Peace, Pastor William E. Salmon 744 So. 10th Salina, KS 67401 wsalmon@cox.net ______________________________ _________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/li stinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net ______________________________ _________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/li stinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net ______________________________ _________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/ listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net ______________________________ _________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/ listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net Wilson Priscilla H pris@teamtechpress.com www.teamtechpress.com follow me on: Facebook Twitter _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
From Adam Thomson, Dover in the UK, As one who originally consciously and physically joined the Spirit Movement in 1972, I have been stimulated by the responses in this stream - especially from Jaime, Dharma and Randy. I was also negatively stimulated by Susan Fertig's comments concerning HRC, and applauded Randy's posting on that. I had been struck by Susan's comments that revealingly included, "I've heard for years about this possible connection to EI/ICA, and I truly hope it's not true. It would be a horrible embarrassment to the movement." I have to say that Sue Fertig - even after many years - still has not grasped what the "movement" is about, at least in part: as the Spirit Movement - as the forgiven ones - we are not "embarrassed" by the actions or otherwise of anyone allegedly or otherwise connected with it. As it happens, I am still smarting from Susan's outrageous comments, including alleging that HRC was a criminal. And then, last night (Wednesday) in the UK, I happened to see Michael Moore's most recent short film, "Michael Moore in Trumpland", which cheered me up no end. I STRONGLY recommend people see this. Michael Moore was filmed doing a one-hour stand-up routine in Wilmington OH before an audience of committed HRC-haters, and the result was fascinating. Michael certainly put HRC's alleged past into a perspective that was helpful to me. By the way - our daughter Mary (born July 4 1978 at Weiss Memorial Hospital in Chicago) has taken great pains to exert her right to a VOTE as a US citizen (for the first time!), and she posted off her absentee ballot yesterday. I'm not telling anybody how she voted... Do try and see "Michael Moore in Trumpland", ASAP. It's a tremendous documentary. Love to all, Adam Thomson END OF MESSAGE "At 12:31 PM 03-11-16, via OE wrote:
Thanks for this very helpful insight, Dharma. As we are consumed with the rancor between left and right in this country, the broader view calls us to consider what issues deserve our attention when it comes to being compassionate and responsible world citizens.
Catherine Welch, Denver
From: <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2016 7:16 PM To: <mailto:LCHockley@gmail.com>Len Hockley ; <mailto:laurelcg@aol.com>laurelcg@aol.com ; <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>Order Ecumenical Community ; <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>Order Ecumenical Community Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. -Dear Susan
As an outsider, being in the Order/ICA gave me a close-up view of the US and how its citizens related to it. In all those years, beginning with Nixon all the way up to Obama, Iâve seen it invade and destroy nations around the world, releasing waves of refugees and other miseries. But within the US, people lived in a cocoon that helped them avert their eyes. I remember the Vietnam war protesters and the many young people who fled the US in order not to be driven to kill âgooksâ overseas. I noticed that at best, we were silent on this and at worst, disapproving. When I look back, I see that the protesters were the âsensitive and responsiveâ part that Niebuhr wrote about. I also noticed the hunger among us to cite links to famous figures while pointing out that to live in the âno longer and the not-yetâ was to be ânobodiesâ. Perhaps this was the effect of consuming the stories meant for our framing and fund-raising strategies.
I see that same hunger now reflected in recalling some distant crossing of trails with Hillary Clinton. Americans have been set up by the political elite to adopt positions around two equally ugly candidates put before them for the exercise of their âdemocratic rightsâ. For all the emotions the Republican-Democrat tension evokes in our emails, election after election, that rivalry is a sham. This is a nation ruled by a âsingle party with two factionsâ. Whichever you praise or denigrate, the real owners of the land always win. And for the rest of us around the world, we can only wait for the light from this âbeacon on the hillâ to eventually fade. Then, perhaps, the US will take its place as an ordinary member in the community of nations.
Dharma
On Wednesday, 2 November 2016, 7:33, Len Hockley via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Dido Jon, The Naked Now by Richard Rohr is required reading!
Len Hockley
On 11/1/2016 2:58 PM, via OE wrote:
Love this, Jon. Thanks.
Jann
-----Original Message----- From: <mailto:jonzondo@juno.com>jonzondo@juno.com via OE <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net To: isobeljimbish <mailto:isobeljimbish@optusnet.com.au>mailto:isobeljimbish@optusnet.com.au; oe <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net Cc: oe <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net Sent: Tue, Nov 1, 2016 1:37 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. - Dear Susan
Dear Group. Jon Elizondo here. Son of Tony and Ellery. Long time "Order kid" and short time Order adult.
This conversation is very important, especially with all the perspectives. I will try to hone in now on one of my key points. The change needed in the system is huge. Our current system is incredible broken in so many ways. We are a first world country "purposefully" going backwards by not investing in our infrastructure nor in our people. In my observation and opinion, much of the national frustration shows itself in the desire to elect Trump, or Bernie, or any alternative. The "Cry" for change is massive, and will not let up.
One of the traps is either/or thinking.
one of the ways forward is both/and/plus-more thinking.
One of the traps is "personal attacks".
one of the ways forward is "come join us at the table".
What I know in my bones is that we are all connected. That mysterious truth, combined with my passion & respect, is my key to intentionally moving forward.
Walk in Beauty, Jon
---------- Original Message ---------- From: Isobel Bishop via OE <<mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Wilson Priscilla H <<mailto:pris@teamtechpress.com>pris@teamtechpress.com>, Order Ecumenical Community <<mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. - Dear Susan Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2016 07:23:32 +1100
Thankyou for this conversation, colleagues. I appreciate the Honesty, pain and fear expressed in depth,to give us outsiders some real hope. Thankyou all. In peace and love, Isobel Sent from my iPhone
On 2 Nov 2016, at 7:02 am, Wilson Priscilla H via OE <<mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
No one has said that better, Randy. You should put that on Facebook so we can all copy your words. Priscilla Wilson
On Nov 1, 2016, at 2:35 PM, Joyce Sloan via OE <<mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Well said, Randy!!
On Nov 1, 2016 2:20 PM, "Randy Williams via OE" <<mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: I keep asking, but still have not seen, one shred of verifiable evidence to substantiate the charge that Hillary has committed a criminal act of any sort. She's made serious mistakes like with the private server, she has not been as transparent as she could and perhaps should have been, she got paid a lot of money for some speeches (but less than some men), she's flip-flopped on some positions she's taken like on TPP, she has a super-healthy ego (an asset for a man but a huge liability for a woman in our culture), she didn't play nice when she was First Lady trying to get health care passed, as Secretary of State she traveled the world and spoke truth to power like the Premier of China, and after much gut-wrenching deliberation and prayer she chose to stay true to her vow to her husband of "for better or worse" through "worse." And to add insult to injury, she decided to run to be the first woman in the Office of President of the United States. How dare she. Despise her for all those things and hate all her positions on the issues, but don't accuse her of being a criminal unless you have some rock solid proof that hours and years and millions of dollars worth of hearings, investigations and witch hunts by scores of government agencies, news media and nondescript malcontents have been unable to produce. I've heard the rumors, innuendos, exaggerations, conjecture, gross distortions and outright lies, everything but verifiable truth. Got any? Then let's have it. But double check your sources before you put it out there because there really are some malingering, deplorable liars afoot in the land and a lot of fools are believing them and then repeating what they heard them say and calling it truth, and it just isn't. Randy Sent from my iPad On Nov 1, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Susan Fertig via OE <<mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Trump was never my choice, and Hillary is a criminal--her vision for the country is my first nightmare. And Trump is just as flawed. Both of them scare me to death. But neither if the other candidates is really an option either. I fear we're about to see this great American experiment in democracy become something no less evil than the many kleptocracies around the world.
Susan
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid On Nov 1, 2016 11:55 AM, Judi White <<mailto:sophiacircle@gmail.com>sophiacircle@gmail.com> wrote: Well, what you wrote is what Frumper repeats over and over. Mist who parrot him do support him. I Personally prefer to read responses to a candidates vision for this nation. Also I stand firm in ny admiration which never ceases, of this woman who has continued in spite of the unbelievable accusations which are so blown up out of the real world of truth and honesty that it is cause for seriously asking "Why?". Why the hell bent mission to destroy a solid vision for this nation and this planet? There is no other candidate who shines so brightly and qualified to be an example for our children and grandchildren at this time. Rightly so.
On Nov 1, 2016 12:20 PM, "Susan Fertig via OE" <<mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: How in the world did you infer that I must be a Trump supporter from my message?
Susan
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid On Nov 1, 2016 7:56 AM, Ken Fisher <<mailto:kenfisher1942@gmail.com>kenfisher1942@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Susan,
Writing to you as a Canadian Christian and 16-year Order member, I am awed by your commitment to American Republicanism and conservative Christianity. How in the world did you spend so much time with the EI/OE/ICA community and have your world view remain unaffected?
From the perspective of Canada, we are 87% supporters of HRC and the image of America she represents. Probably Russia is 87% in favour of Donald.
Each and every âcrimeâ that I have read about that is attributed to Hillary has been most grandly committed by Republicans in previous Bush administrations.
Surely you would agree that Donald Trump is an out and out racist, sexist, homophobe, parochial narcissist and most of all a climate change denier? HRC is none of the above. Thankfully, she is responsive to both Bernie and to Elizabeth. We may get out of this mess yet.
Your phrase: "only values I see are abject greed, a pathological allegiance to lies, and arrogant flaunting of her ability to circumvent the law. She has done absolutely nothing to improve the lives of the poor and disadvantaged yet claims she has in the face of all evidence to the contrary.â is really the truth that the world sees about Trump.
I would invite you to see all that as a projection.
Should Trump take ownership of any of the above, that would be a fine moment of grace. Would you not agree?
Margaret Atwood, (a Canadian poet, novelist, literary critic, essayist, and environmental activist) describes America in the midst of a Salem type witch hunt. I agree. It is, at the bottom a war against women.
While there are indeed my contradictions in American society that both the Republican and Democratic administrations must answer for, the attached article came closest - for me - in describing how the Republican voice has committed itself to an âend gameâ and it would seem that indeed, the GOP will âendâ.
Love and best wishes to you, Susan and to all Trump supporters who have been left without any vision other than rebellion or depression.
We are all responsible. Everyone.
Ken in Canada.
A Republican intellectual explains why the Republican Party is going to die
<http://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/12256510/republican-party-trump-avik-roy>http://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/1 2256510/republican-party-trump -avik-roy
On Nov 1, 2016, at 12:03 AM, Susan Fertig via OE <<mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Values??? The only values I see are abject greed, a pathological allegiance to lies, and arrogant flaunting of her ability to circumvent the law. She has done absolutely nothing to improve the lives of the poor and disadvantaged yet claims she has in the face of all evidence to the contrary. I've heard for years about this possible connection to EI/ICA, and I truly hope it's not true. It would be a horrible embarrassment to the movement.
Susan
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid On Oct 31, 2016 11:22 PM, William Salmon via OE <<mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Colleagues-- So many raise the question concerning Hillary Clinton's relationship to E.I. I decided to cast this bread upon the waters. The first sign is that while I addressed it to Hillary Clinton, an alternate address popped up. Consequently, it may really get to her attention, to that of some aid. May it be a Kool-Aid. Inner Peace, Bill
Mrs. Hillary Clinton: It is my prayer that this reaches you concerning your experience in 5th City, Chicago, or it could have been in Evanston. Your Youth Director, Don Jones, must have been at a training event to become known as RS-I. About the same time, a large number of us dedicated ourselves to this renewal movement that grew from our experience in Chicago Ghetto to literally embrace the world. It makes me wonder if your experience under his leadership influenced the values you hold dear, and now wish to step onto the platform of the Presidency to do for our United States and for the world what was embraced by the courageous citizens in 5th City. You carry my prayers during this last turbulent week. You have my vote. Grace and Peace, Pastor William E. Salmon 744 So. 10th Salina, KS 67401 <mailto:wsalmon@cox.net>wsalmon@cox.net
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Thanks for this, Dharma, it is still too easy for me to focus down . . . Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353623-363-3277jfwiegel@yahoo.comwww.partnersinparticipation.com Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona More info on: ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation Register on line / see the ToP National ScheduleAICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003 From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Len Hockley <LCHockley@gmail.com>; "laurelcg@aol.com" <laurelcg@aol.com>; Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2016 6:16 PM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. - Dear Susan As an outsider, being in the Order/ICA gave me a close-up viewof the US and how its citizens related to it. In all those years, beginningwith Nixon all the way up to Obama, I’ve seen it invade and destroy nationsaround the world, releasing waves of refugees and other miseries. Butwithin the US, people lived in a cocoon thathelped them avert their eyes. I remember the Vietnam war protesters and the manyyoung people who fled the US in order not to be driven to kill “gooks”overseas. I noticed that at best, we were silent on this and at worst,disapproving. When I look back, I see that the protesters were the “sensitiveand responsive” part that Niebuhr wrote about. I also noticed the hunger amongus to cite links to famous figures while pointing out that to live in the “nolonger and the not-yet” was to be “nobodies”. Perhaps this was the effect of consuming the stories meant for ourframing and fund-raising strategies. I see that same hunger now reflected in recalling somedistant crossing of trails with Hillary Clinton. Americans have been set up bythe political elite to adopt positions around two equally ugly candidates putbefore them for the exercise of their “democratic rights”. For all the emotionsthe Republican-Democrat tension evokes in our emails, election after election, thatrivalry is a sham. This is a nation ruled by a “single party with two factions”.Whichever you praise or denigrate, the real owners of the land always win. Andfor the rest of us around the world, we can only wait for the light from this “beaconon the hill” to eventually fade. Then, perhaps, the US will take its place as an ordinary member in thecommunity of nations. Dharma On Wednesday, 2 November 2016, 7:33, Len Hockley via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Dido Jon, The Naked Now by Richard Rohr is required reading! Len Hockley On 11/1/2016 2:58 PM, via OE wrote: Love this, Jon. Thanks. Jann -----Original Message----- From: jonzondo@juno.com via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: isobeljimbish <isobeljimbish@optusnet.com.au>; oe <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: oe <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Tue, Nov 1, 2016 1:37 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. - Dear Susan Dear Group. Jon Elizondo here. Son of Tony and Ellery. Long time "Order kid" and short time Order adult. This conversation is very important, especially with all the perspectives. I will try to hone in now on one of my key points. The change needed in the system is huge. Our current system is incredible broken in so many ways. We are a first world country "purposefully" going backwards by not investing in our infrastructure nor in our people. In my observation and opinion, much of the national frustration shows itself in the desire to elect Trump, or Bernie, or any alternative. The "Cry" for change is massive, and will not let up. One of the traps is either/or thinking. one of the ways forward is both/and/plus-more thinking. One of the traps is "personal attacks". one of the ways forward is "come join us at the table". What I know in my bones is that we are all connected. That mysterious truth, combined with my passion & respect, is my key to intentionally moving forward. Walk in Beauty, Jon ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Isobel Bishop via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Wilson Priscilla H <pris@teamtechpress.com>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. - Dear Susan Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2016 07:23:32 +1100 Thankyou for this conversation, colleagues. I appreciate the Honesty, pain and fear expressed in depth,to give us outsiders some real hope. Thankyou all. In peace and love, Isobel Sent from my iPhone On 2 Nov 2016, at 7:02 am, Wilson Priscilla H via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: No one has said that better, Randy. You should put that on Facebook…so we can all copy your words. Priscilla Wilson On Nov 1, 2016, at 2:35 PM, Joyce Sloan via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Well said, Randy!! On Nov 1, 2016 2:20 PM, "Randy Williams via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: I keep asking, but still have not seen, one shred of verifiable evidence to substantiate the charge that Hillary has committed a criminal act of any sort. She's made serious mistakes like with the private server, she has not been as transparent as she could and perhaps should have been, she got paid a lot of money for some speeches (but less than some men), she's flip-flopped on some positions she's taken like on TPP, she has a super-healthy ego (an asset for a man but a huge liability for a woman in our culture), she didn't play nice when she was First Lady trying to get health care passed, as Secretary of State she traveled the world and spoke truth to power like the Premier of China, and after much gut-wrenching deliberation and prayer she chose to stay true to her vow to her husband of "for better or worse" through "worse." And to add insult to injury, she decided to run to be the first woman in the Office of President of the United States. How dare she. Despise her for all those things and hate all her positions on the issues, but don't accuse her of being a criminal unless you have some rock solid proof that hours and years and millions of dollars worth of hearings, investigations and witch hunts by scores of government agencies, news media and nondescript malcontents have been unable to produce. I've heard the rumors, innuendos, exaggerations, conjecture, gross distortions and outright lies, everything but verifiable truth. Got any? Then let's have it. But double check your sources before you put it out there because there really are some malingering, deplorable liars afoot in the land and a lot of fools are believing them and then repeating what they heard them say and calling it truth, and it just isn't. Randy Sent from my iPad On Nov 1, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Susan Fertig via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Trump was never my choice, and Hillary is a criminal--her vision for the country is my first nightmare. And Trump is just as flawed. Both of them scare me to death. But neither if the other candidates is really an option either. I fear we're about to see this great American experiment in democracy become something no less evil than the many kleptocracies around the world. Susan Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid On Nov 1, 2016 11:55 AM, Judi White <sophiacircle@gmail.com> wrote: Well, what you wrote is what Frumper repeats over and over. Mist who parrot him do support him. I Personally prefer to read responses to a candidates vision for this nation. Also I stand firm in ny admiration which never ceases, of this woman who has continued in spite of the unbelievable accusations which are so blown up out of the real world of truth and honesty that it is cause for seriously asking "Why?". Why the hell bent mission to destroy a solid vision for this nation and this planet? There is no other candidate who shines so brightly and qualified to be an example for our children and grandchildren at this time. Rightly so. On Nov 1, 2016 12:20 PM, "Susan Fertig via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: How in the world did you infer that I must be a Trump supporter from my message? Susan Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid On Nov 1, 2016 7:56 AM, Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942@gmail.com> wrote: Dear Susan, Writing to you as a Canadian Christian and 16-year Order member, I am awed by your commitment to American Republicanism and conservative Christianity. How in the world did you spend so much time with the EI/OE/ICA community and have your world view remain unaffected? From the perspective of Canada, we are 87% supporters of HRC and the image of America she represents. Probably Russia is 87% in favour of Donald. Each and every ‘crime’ that I have read about that is attributed to Hillary has been most grandly committed by Republicans in previous Bushadministrations. Surely you would agree that Donald Trump is an out and out racist, sexist, homophobe, parochial narcissist and most of all a climate change denier? HRC is none of the above. Thankfully, she is responsive to both Bernie and to Elizabeth. We may get out of this mess yet. Your phrase: "only values I see are abject greed, a pathological allegiance to lies, and arrogant flaunting of her ability to circumvent the law. She has done absolutely nothing to improve the lives of the poor and disadvantaged yet claims she has in the face of all evidence to the contrary.” is really the truth that the world sees about Trump. I would invite you to see all that as a projection. Should Trump take ownership of any of the above, that would be a fine moment of grace. Would you not agree? Margaret Atwood, (a Canadian poet, novelist, literary critic, essayist, and environmental activist) describes America in the midst of a Salem type witch hunt. I agree. It is, at the bottom a war against women. While there are indeed my contradictions in American society that both the Republican and Democratic administrations must answer for, the attached article came closest - for me - in describing how the Republican voice has committed itself to an ‘end game’ and it would seem that indeed, the GOP will ‘end’. Love and best wishes to you, Susan and to all Trump supporters who have been left without any vision other than rebellion or depression. We are all responsible. Everyone. Ken in Canada. A Republican intellectual explains why the Republican Party is going to die http://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/1 2256510/republican-party-trump -avik-roy On Nov 1, 2016, at 12:03 AM, Susan Fertig via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Values??? The only values I see are abject greed, a pathological allegiance to lies, and arrogant flaunting of her ability to circumvent the law. She has done absolutely nothing to improve the lives of the poor and disadvantaged yet claims she has in the face of all evidence to the contrary. I've heard for years about this possible connection to EI/ICA, and I truly hope it's not true. It would be a horrible embarrassment to the movement. Susan Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid On Oct 31, 2016 11:22 PM, William Salmon via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Colleagues-- So many raise the question concerning Hillary Clinton's relationship to E.I. I decided to cast this bread upon the waters. The first sign is that while I addressed it to Hillary Clinton, an alternate address popped up. Consequently, it may really get to her attention, to that of some aid. May it be a Kool-Aid. Inner Peace, Bill Mrs. Hillary Clinton: It is my prayer that this reaches you concerning your experience in 5th City, Chicago, or it could have been in Evanston. Your Youth Director, Don Jones, must have been at a training event to become known as RS-I. About the same time, a large number of us dedicated ourselves to this renewal movement that grew from our experience in Chicago Ghetto to literally embrace the world. It makes me wonder if your experience under his leadership influenced the values you hold dear, and now wish to step onto the platform of the Presidency to do for our United States and for the world what was embraced by the courageous citizens in 5th City. You carry my prayers during this last turbulent week. You have my vote. Grace and Peace, Pastor William E. Salmon 744 So. 10th Salina, KS 67401 wsalmon@cox.net ______________________________ _________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/li stinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net ______________________________ _________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/li stinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net ______________________________ _________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/ listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net ______________________________ _________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/ listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net Wilson Priscilla H pris@teamtechpress.com www.teamtechpress.com follow me on: Facebook Twitter _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
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