George Conway DESTROYS Trump In Most DEVASTATING Ad Yet! (youtube.com) <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyRD47IBNmY> A.M. Noel
Destruction is our future? Bill Schlesinger From: OE <oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> On Behalf Of A.M. Noel via OE Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2024 5:41 AM To: Molly Shaw <mollyshaw54@gmail.com>; OE Listserv <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: A.M. Noel <anthonymarianoel@gmail.com> Subject: [Oe List ...] Our Future George Conway DESTROYS Trump In Most DEVASTATING Ad Yet! (youtube.com) <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v%3DNyRD47IBNmY&source=gmail-imap&ust=1722166883000000&usg=AOvVaw3SZLwJlPxtPWAdG0ZMgrTh> A.M. Noel -- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you
A president who has made the US complicit in the genocide ofPalestinians – 38,000 and more killed in the last few months. A president whoinvaded a sovereign nation to eliminate weapons of mass destruction but turnedit into a festering sore of terrorism. And many other presidents who led the USin some of the greatest crimes that a nation can commit. Compare Trump to thosemen. Then imagine what the US will continueto do if the July 13th bullet had found its mark and saved the dayfor Biden. On Sunday, 21 July 2024 at 07:41:33 pm GMT+8, A.M. Noel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: George Conway DESTROYS Trump In Most DEVASTATING Ad Yet! (youtube.com) A.M. Noel_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
I speak only for myself. What i hear, is an understanding that this is not a choice between Good and Evil, right and wrong, but part of a complex historical and political process that has done great damage to the world even as it has done some good things for the world. On Sun, Jul 21, 2024, 8:59 AM Randy Williams via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Dharma, I’m not sure I’m getting your point. Please explain. Randy
On Jul 21, 2024, at 9:35 AM, Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
A president who has made the US complicit in the genocide of Palestinians – 38,000 and more killed in the last few months. A president who invaded a sovereign nation to eliminate weapons of mass destruction but turned it into a festering sore of terrorism. And many other presidents who led the US in some of the greatest crimes that a nation can commit. Compare Trump to those men. Then imagine what the US will continue to do if the July 13 th bullet had found its mark and saved the day for Biden.
On Sunday, 21 July 2024 at 07:41:33 pm GMT+8, A.M. Noel via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
George Conway DESTROYS Trump In Most DEVASTATING Ad Yet! (youtube.com) <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyRD47IBNmY> A.M. Noel _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
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-- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you
In a binary choice world – I agree. I find former President Trump a charlatan and – more dangerous – a successfully scapegoating demagogue. However, I am painfully aware that the world is more than binary, and that avoiding a second term for Trump is a minimal step in a maximal world. Bill From: Randy Williams <randycw1938@gmail.com> Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2024 9:19 AM To: William Schlesinger <w.schlesinger@pvida.net> Cc: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Molly Shaw <mollyshaw54@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Our Future Bill, That may be true. And I’m as displeased with Biden’s role in Gaza and Bush’s invasion of Iraq, along with things Clinton, Obama and most other U.S. presidents have done. But on November 5 we will have to make a choice. And to suggest that there is some equivalence between Trump and ANY other American president, Nixon included, if indeed that’s what Dharma was doing, is a step way too far for me. In my opinion, Trump is the most morally bankrupt character to ever have walked across the stage of American history, bar none. Randy On Jul 21, 2024, at 11:04 AM, William Schlesinger <w.schlesinger@pvida.net <mailto:w.schlesinger@pvida.net> > wrote: I speak only for myself. What i hear, is an understanding that this is not a choice between Good and Evil, right and wrong, but part of a complex historical and political process that has done great damage to the world even as it has done some good things for the world. On Sun, Jul 21, 2024, 8:59 AM Randy Williams via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> > wrote: Dharma, I’m not sure I’m getting your point. Please explain. Randy On Jul 21, 2024, at 9:35 AM, Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> > wrote: A president who has made the US complicit in the genocide of Palestinians – 38,000 and more killed in the last few months. A president who invaded a sovereign nation to eliminate weapons of mass destruction but turned it into a festering sore of terrorism. And many other presidents who led the US in some of the greatest crimes that a nation can commit. Compare Trump to those men. Then imagine what the US will continue to do if the July 13th bullet had found its mark and saved the day for Biden. On Sunday, 21 July 2024 at 07:41:33 pm GMT+8, A.M. Noel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> > wrote: George Conway DESTROYS Trump In Most DEVASTATING Ad Yet! (youtube.com) <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v%3DNyRD47IBNmY&source=gmail-imap&ust=1722179979000000&usg=AOvVaw2ReCY7lFpI5bSVsFp_KMaf> A.M. Noel _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net <https://www.google.com/url?q=http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net&source=gmail-imap&ust=1722179979000000&usg=AOvVaw30JYq6P-BOfa7NbEgzJUaQ> _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net <https://www.google.com/url?q=http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net&source=gmail-imap&ust=1722179979000000&usg=AOvVaw30JYq6P-BOfa7NbEgzJUaQ> _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net <https://www.google.com/url?q=http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net&source=gmail-imap&ust=1722179979000000&usg=AOvVaw30JYq6P-BOfa7NbEgzJUaQ> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you -- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you
It does not need to be a binary choice. Support is needed to get us beyond the FPTP mentality and change the SYSTEM. This group should understand it is changing the SYSTEM that affects change. It’s one of the things I learned from my association with it. Get out of world made by the current system. I’m voting for Jill Stein. Join me. Don’t stay stuck. Support change. Wesson Gaige, Secretary Green Party of Texas Cell - 214 906-2909 wesgaige <mailto:wesgaige@txgreens.org>@txgreens.org <mailto:cochair@txgreens.org> He/Him/His Prevent Future War Crimes Prosecute War Criminals Eco-socialism is a vital part of being Green. But, it is not the whole of being Green.
On Jul 21, 2024, at 10:30, Bill Schlesinger via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
In a binary choice world – I agree. I find former President Trump a charlatan and – more dangerous – a successfully scapegoating demagogue. However, I am painfully aware that the world is more than binary, and that avoiding a second term for Trump is a minimal step in a maximal world.
Bill
From: Randy Williams <randycw1938@gmail.com <mailto:randycw1938@gmail.com>> Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2024 9:19 AM To: William Schlesinger <w.schlesinger@pvida.net <mailto:w.schlesinger@pvida.net>> Cc: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>>; Molly Shaw <mollyshaw54@gmail.com <mailto:mollyshaw54@gmail.com>> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Our Future
Bill, That may be true. And I’m as displeased with Biden’s role in Gaza and Bush’s invasion of Iraq, along with things Clinton, Obama and most other U.S. presidents have done. But on November 5 we will have to make a choice. And to suggest that there is some equivalence between Trump and ANY other American president, Nixon included, if indeed that’s what Dharma was doing, is a step way too far for me. In my opinion, Trump is the most morally bankrupt character to ever have walked across the stage of American history, bar none. Randy
On Jul 21, 2024, at 11:04 AM, William Schlesinger <w.schlesinger@pvida.net <mailto:w.schlesinger@pvida.net>> wrote:
I speak only for myself. What i hear, is an understanding that this is not a choice between Good and Evil, right and wrong, but part of a complex historical and political process that has done great damage to the world even as it has done some good things for the world.
On Sun, Jul 21, 2024, 8:59 AM Randy Williams via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
Dharma, I’m not sure I’m getting your point. Please explain. Randy
On Jul 21, 2024, at 9:35 AM, Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
A president who has made the US complicit in the genocide of Palestinians – 38,000 and more killed in the last few months. A president who invaded a sovereign nation to eliminate weapons of mass destruction but turned it into a festering sore of terrorism. And many other presidents who led the US in some of the greatest crimes that a nation can commit. Compare Trump to those men. Then imagine what the US will continue to do if the July 13th bullet had found its mark and saved the day for Biden.
Wesson Gaige, Secretary Green Party of Texas Cell - 214 906-2909 wesgaige <mailto:wesgaige@txgreens.org>@txgreens.org <mailto:cochair@txgreens.org> He/Him/His Prevent Future War Crimes Prosecute War Criminals Eco-socialism is a vital part of being Green. But, it is not the whole of being Green.
Just yesterday in the grocery store parking lot signed a petition to vote in Colorado to use ranked voting. 828-292-9696 On Sun, Jul 21, 2024 at 11:10 AM Wesson Gaige via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
It does not need to be a binary choice. Support is needed to get us beyond the FPTP mentality and change the SYSTEM. This group should understand it is changing the SYSTEM that affects change. It’s one of the things I learned from my association with it. Get out of world made by the current system. I’m voting for Jill Stein. Join me. Don’t stay stuck. Support change.
Wesson Gaige, Secretary Green Party of Texas Cell - 214 906-2909 wesgaige <wesgaige@txgreens.org>@txgreens.org <cochair@txgreens.org> He/Him/His
Prevent Future War Crimes Prosecute War Criminals
Eco-socialism is a vital part of being Green. But, it is not the whole of being Green.
On Jul 21, 2024, at 10:30, Bill Schlesinger via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
In a binary choice world – I agree. I find former President Trump a charlatan and – more dangerous – a successfully scapegoating demagogue. However, I am painfully aware that the world is more than binary, and that avoiding a second term for Trump is a minimal step in a maximal world.
Bill
*From:* Randy Williams <randycw1938@gmail.com> *Sent:* Sunday, July 21, 2024 9:19 AM *To:* William Schlesinger <w.schlesinger@pvida.net> *Cc:* Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Molly Shaw < mollyshaw54@gmail.com> *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] Our Future
Bill, That may be true. And I’m as displeased with Biden’s role in Gaza and Bush’s invasion of Iraq, along with things Clinton, Obama and most other U.S. presidents have done. But on November 5 we will have to make a choice. And to suggest that there is some equivalence between Trump and ANY other American president, Nixon included, if indeed that’s what Dharma was doing, is a step way too far for me. In my opinion, Trump is the most morally bankrupt character to ever have walked across the stage of American history, bar none. Randy
On Jul 21, 2024, at 11:04 AM, William Schlesinger <w.schlesinger@pvida.net> wrote:
I speak only for myself. What i hear, is an understanding that this is not a choice between Good and Evil, right and wrong, but part of a complex historical and political process that has done great damage to the world even as it has done some good things for the world.
On Sun, Jul 21, 2024, 8:59 AM Randy Williams via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Dharma, I’m not sure I’m getting your point. Please explain. Randy
On Jul 21, 2024, at 9:35 AM, Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
A president who has made the US complicit in the genocide of Palestinians – 38,000 and more killed in the last few months. A president who invaded a sovereign nation to eliminate weapons of mass destruction but turned it into a festering sore of terrorism. And many other presidents who led the US in some of the greatest crimes that a nation can commit. Compare Trump to those men. Then imagine what the US will continue to do if the July 13 th bullet had found its mark and saved the day for Biden.
Wesson Gaige, Secretary Green Party of Texas Cell - 214 906-2909 wesgaige <wesgaige@txgreens.org>@txgreens.org <cochair@txgreens.org> He/Him/His
Prevent Future War Crimes Prosecute War Criminals
Eco-socialism is a vital part of being Green. But, it is not the whole of being Green.
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Thanks, Don. I hadn't seen it at my grocery (one on homeschooling and another I forget what! duh). *Sunny Walker * *She/her/hers* *On **Arapaho, Cheyenne, Núu-agha-tʉvʉ-pʉ̱ (Ute), and Očeti Šakówiŋ (Sioux) tribal land* Certified Facilitator (Also Certified ToP Facilitator) ToP Methods Mentor Trainer - Upcoming Courses <https://www.top-training.net/w/> Virtual Facilitation Collaborative Senior Facilitator sunny.sunwalker@gmail.com 303-587-3017 For diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging inquiries: sunny@diversityinnovators.com www.diversityinnovators.com For virtual facilitation inquiries: sunny@virtualfacilitationcollaborative.com www.virtualfacilitationcollaborative.com On Sun, Jul 21, 2024 at 3:45 PM Don Bushman via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Just yesterday in the grocery store parking lot signed a petition to vote in Colorado to use ranked voting.
828-292-9696
On Sun, Jul 21, 2024 at 11:10 AM Wesson Gaige via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
It does not need to be a binary choice. Support is needed to get us beyond the FPTP mentality and change the SYSTEM. This group should understand it is changing the SYSTEM that affects change. It’s one of the things I learned from my association with it. Get out of world made by the current system. I’m voting for Jill Stein. Join me. Don’t stay stuck. Support change.
Wesson Gaige, Secretary Green Party of Texas Cell - 214 906-2909 wesgaige <wesgaige@txgreens.org>@txgreens.org <cochair@txgreens.org> He/Him/His
Prevent Future War Crimes Prosecute War Criminals
Eco-socialism is a vital part of being Green. But, it is not the whole of being Green.
On Jul 21, 2024, at 10:30, Bill Schlesinger via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
In a binary choice world – I agree. I find former President Trump a charlatan and – more dangerous – a successfully scapegoating demagogue. However, I am painfully aware that the world is more than binary, and that avoiding a second term for Trump is a minimal step in a maximal world.
Bill
*From:* Randy Williams <randycw1938@gmail.com> *Sent:* Sunday, July 21, 2024 9:19 AM *To:* William Schlesinger <w.schlesinger@pvida.net> *Cc:* Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Molly Shaw < mollyshaw54@gmail.com> *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] Our Future
Bill, That may be true. And I’m as displeased with Biden’s role in Gaza and Bush’s invasion of Iraq, along with things Clinton, Obama and most other U.S. presidents have done. But on November 5 we will have to make a choice. And to suggest that there is some equivalence between Trump and ANY other American president, Nixon included, if indeed that’s what Dharma was doing, is a step way too far for me. In my opinion, Trump is the most morally bankrupt character to ever have walked across the stage of American history, bar none. Randy
On Jul 21, 2024, at 11:04 AM, William Schlesinger < w.schlesinger@pvida.net> wrote:
I speak only for myself. What i hear, is an understanding that this is not a choice between Good and Evil, right and wrong, but part of a complex historical and political process that has done great damage to the world even as it has done some good things for the world.
On Sun, Jul 21, 2024, 8:59 AM Randy Williams via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Dharma, I’m not sure I’m getting your point. Please explain. Randy
On Jul 21, 2024, at 9:35 AM, Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
A president who has made the US complicit in the genocide of Palestinians – 38,000 and more killed in the last few months. A president who invaded a sovereign nation to eliminate weapons of mass destruction but turned it into a festering sore of terrorism. And many other presidents who led the US in some of the greatest crimes that a nation can commit. Compare Trump to those men. Then imagine what the US will continue to do if the July 13 th bullet had found its mark and saved the day for Biden.
Wesson Gaige, Secretary Green Party of Texas Cell - 214 906-2909 wesgaige <wesgaige@txgreens.org>@txgreens.org <cochair@txgreens.org> He/Him/His
Prevent Future War Crimes Prosecute War Criminals
Eco-socialism is a vital part of being Green. But, it is not the whole of being Green.
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
I wish I could agree – but I can’t. In this particular election, a vote for a third party candidate does not affect the outcome of this race. I’d develop third party candidates in local elections before attempting a national candidacy – remembering Eugene V. Debs’ history. There are functional differences in a Trump administration from other Republican or Democratic administrations (Dharmalingam’s comments still being real). A vote for a third party candidate in this election removes support from either of those two binary choices. Period. Bill From: Wesson Gaige <wesgaige@mac.com> Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2024 11:09 AM To: Herman F Greene <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: Randy Williams <randycw1938@gmail.com>; Bill Schlesinger <w.schlesinger@pvida.net>; Molly Shaw <mollyshaw54@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Our Future It does not need to be a binary choice. Support is needed to get us beyond the FPTP mentality and change the SYSTEM. This group should understand it is changing the SYSTEM that affects change. It’s one of the things I learned from my association with it. Get out of world made by the current system. I’m voting for Jill Stein. Join me. Don’t stay stuck. Support change. Wesson Gaige, Secretary Green Party of Texas Cell - 214 906-2909 wesgaige <mailto:wesgaige@txgreens.org> @txgreens.org <mailto:cochair@txgreens.org> He/Him/His Prevent Future War Crimes Prosecute War Criminals Eco-socialism is a vital part of being Green. But, it is not the whole of being Green. On Jul 21, 2024, at 10:30, Bill Schlesinger via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> > wrote: In a binary choice world – I agree. I find former President Trump a charlatan and – more dangerous – a successfully scapegoating demagogue. However, I am painfully aware that the world is more than binary, and that avoiding a second term for Trump is a minimal step in a maximal world. Bill From: Randy Williams < <mailto:randycw1938@gmail.com> randycw1938@gmail.com> Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2024 9:19 AM To: William Schlesinger < <mailto:w.schlesinger@pvida.net> w.schlesinger@pvida.net> Cc: Order Ecumenical Community < <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Molly Shaw < <mailto:mollyshaw54@gmail.com> mollyshaw54@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Our Future Bill, That may be true. And I’m as displeased with Biden’s role in Gaza and Bush’s invasion of Iraq, along with things Clinton, Obama and most other U.S. presidents have done. But on November 5 we will have to make a choice. And to suggest that there is some equivalence between Trump and ANY other American president, Nixon included, if indeed that’s what Dharma was doing, is a step way too far for me. In my opinion, Trump is the most morally bankrupt character to ever have walked across the stage of American history, bar none. Randy On Jul 21, 2024, at 11:04 AM, William Schlesinger < <mailto:w.schlesinger@pvida.net> w.schlesinger@pvida.net> wrote: I speak only for myself. What i hear, is an understanding that this is not a choice between Good and Evil, right and wrong, but part of a complex historical and political process that has done great damage to the world even as it has done some good things for the world. On Sun, Jul 21, 2024, 8:59 AM Randy Williams via OE < <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Dharma, I’m not sure I’m getting your point. Please explain. Randy On Jul 21, 2024, at 9:35 AM, Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE < <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: A president who has made the US complicit in the genocide of Palestinians – 38,000 and more killed in the last few months. A president who invaded a sovereign nation to eliminate weapons of mass destruction but turned it into a festering sore of terrorism. And many other presidents who led the US in some of the greatest crimes that a nation can commit. Compare Trump to those men. Then imagine what the US will continue to do if the July 13th bullet had found its mark and saved the day for Biden. Wesson Gaige, Secretary Green Party of Texas Cell - 214 906-2909 wesgaige <mailto:wesgaige@txgreens.org> @txgreens.org <mailto:cochair@txgreens.org> He/Him/His Prevent Future War Crimes Prosecute War Criminals Eco-socialism is a vital part of being Green. But, it is not the whole of being Green. -- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you
Dear colleagues, My comments were a reaction to George Conway’s attack onTrump. It reflects the disdain of some Americans who reject Trump and his bad behaviourbut accept leaders with better personalities but more bankrupt morals. To an outsideobserver, what matters is the impact that US presidents make on my country andthe world generally. When I compare Bush, Trump and Biden, I see one president desperatelylooking for an excuse to invade Iraq when people were shell shocked by the twintower attack apparently engineered by Osama and his Saudi Arabian gang. WithTrump, I expected a similarly trigger-happy leader. I was surprised when he threwout the Pentagon’s recommendation that he bomb Iran. With Biden, I am aghast athow he and his associates let Israel lead them by the nose (with politicalfunding as sweeteners). When the US is in danger of being ousted by China, why allowdistractions like Israel and Ukraine to take precedence? Are they loyal toAmericans or to weapons manufacturers? Why doesn’t that create a greaterdisgust than Trump’s erratic behaviour? On Sunday, 21 July 2024 at 10:59:35 pm GMT+8, Randy Williams <randycw1938@gmail.com> wrote: Dharma,I’m not sure I’m getting your point. Please explain.Randy On Jul 21, 2024, at 9:35 AM, Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: A president who has made the US complicit in the genocide ofPalestinians – 38,000 and more killed in the last few months. A president whoinvaded a sovereign nation to eliminate weapons of mass destruction but turnedit into a festering sore of terrorism. And many other presidents who led the USin some of the greatest crimes that a nation can commit. Compare Trump to thosemen. Then imagine what the US will continueto do if the July 13th bullet had found its mark and saved the dayfor Biden. On Sunday, 21 July 2024 at 07:41:33 pm GMT+8, A.M. Noel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: George Conway DESTROYS Trump In Most DEVASTATING Ad Yet! (youtube.com) A.M. Noel_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Dharma, I appreciate your reasoned comments. I agree with most of it, including that Trump is an odious personality and Biden is unconscionably, disgustingly corrupt. The only thing I disagree with is the part about Israel. Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East and it is our only ally, so we MUST defend them. (Ukraine not so much!!) But further, Israel will never be safe, and that teeny tiny country is her last bastion. When the attacks came, they came so horrifically—babies beheaded, girls raped, and how many hostages! They must go forward—all attempts to free the hostages have been met with lies and prevarications. And what is happening in this country (the riots and “demonstrations”) is nothing but shameful. Didn’t the Jews lose enough in WWII? How is it that anyone can practice discrimination and persecution of the Jews in current times. I have not much sympathy for the Palestinians—nearly all of them were in sympathy for and supporting Hamas. I have been to Israel, and I’ve seen the terrible conditions the Palestinians live under. But the fact remains that nearly all of them have been guilty of terrorism against Israel. Susan Susan Fertig-Dykes And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought . Isaiah 58:11 From: OE <oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> On Behalf Of Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2024 8:40 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Randy Williams <randycw1938@gmail.com> Cc: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com>; Molly Shaw <mollyshaw54@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Our Future Dear colleagues, My comments were a reaction to George Conway’s attack on Trump. It reflects the disdain of some Americans who reject Trump and his bad behaviour but accept leaders with better personalities but more bankrupt morals. To an outside observer, what matters is the impact that US presidents make on my country and the world generally. When I compare Bush, Trump and Biden, I see one president desperately looking for an excuse to invade Iraq when people were shell shocked by the twin tower attack apparently engineered by Osama and his Saudi Arabian gang. With Trump, I expected a similarly trigger-happy leader. I was surprised when he threw out the Pentagon’s recommendation that he bomb Iran. With Biden, I am aghast at how he and his associates let Israel lead them by the nose (with political funding as sweeteners). When the US is in danger of being ousted by China, why allow distractions like Israel and Ukraine to take precedence? Are they loyal to Americans or to weapons manufacturers? Why doesn’t that create a greater disgust than Trump’s erratic behaviour? On Sunday, 21 July 2024 at 10:59:35 pm GMT+8, Randy Williams <randycw1938@gmail.com<mailto:randycw1938@gmail.com>> wrote: Dharma, I’m not sure I’m getting your point. Please explain. Randy On Jul 21, 2024, at 9:35 AM, Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote: A president who has made the US complicit in the genocide of Palestinians – 38,000 and more killed in the last few months. A president who invaded a sovereign nation to eliminate weapons of mass destruction but turned it into a festering sore of terrorism. And many other presidents who led the US in some of the greatest crimes that a nation can commit. Compare Trump to those men. Then imagine what the US will continue to do if the July 13th bullet had found its mark and saved the day for Biden. On Sunday, 21 July 2024 at 07:41:33 pm GMT+8, A.M. Noel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote: George Conway DESTROYS Trump In Most DEVASTATING Ad Yet! (youtube.com)<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyRD47IBNmY> A.M. Noel _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net<mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Some of you may remember Herman Greene. I am involved in a "study group" with him and several dozen others looking into what kind of governance we need moving forward in this century with all that it holds. Just wondering what thoughts any of you might have about what improvements, innovations, shifts or changes in governance, politics, morals, leadership that might produce better outcomes for all of us? Thanks in advance. Jim Wiegel “We are all time travelers journeying into the future. But let us make that future a place we want to visit. “ Stephen Hawking
Jim, thank you for your question. Very thoughtful. I seem to remember that you did a group facilitation with people in Palestine. I've always appreciated your efforts. Maybe something from your work there might apply? So about the question of what news in governance. There no doubt will be forms and interactions that will have to be innovated in the future. Hopefully the local, particularly the village or the neighborhood, could regain recognition have some economic stability and cultural life. But the big reason I'm emailing you is that I would like you to pay attention to the innovative work in Estonia. They are pioneers in e-government. The only two things not available from a telephone or a home computer are marriage licenses and property transfers. Everything else can be done from someone's home. That means that even people living here in the United States with dual citizenship for example, or with a green card, can access their telephone and access Estonian government, using their Master pin number, the government computers in Estonia. They can get whatever they need done even thousands of miles away. Good luck with your study. On Sun, Jul 21, 2024, 8:26 PM James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Some of you may remember Herman Greene. I am involved in a "study group" with him and several dozen others looking into what kind of governance we need moving forward in this century with all that it holds.
Just wondering what thoughts any of you might have about what improvements, innovations, shifts or changes in governance, politics, morals, leadership that might produce better outcomes for all of us?
Thanks in advance. Jim Wiegel
“We are all time travelers journeying into the future. But let us make that future a place we want to visit. “ Stephen Hawking
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Hi Jim,Related to your question about what innovations, shifts or changes would be needed, I (probably like many of you) am aware of the growing gap in world view between the “West” and the “Global South” in recent years. I see this particularly in Western perceptions of and attitudes to specific nations – Russia, Israel, Ukraine and China, among them. My (?jaundiced) explanation is that those who run the media are eager to keep the “West” in a bubble that shapes how they see the world. For some reason, they are either unable or uninterested in doing this for those outside the West. Identifying these gaps and trying to figure out what causes them would help us get a grip on this gap that will surely affect how we as the world envision the future. Dharma On Monday, 22 July 2024 at 09:25:59 am GMT+8, James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Some of you may remember Herman Greene. I am involved in a "study group" with him and several dozen others looking into what kind of governance we need moving forward in this century with all that it holds. Just wondering what thoughts any of you might have about what improvements, innovations, shifts or changes in governance, politics, morals, leadership that might produce better outcomes for all of us? Thanks in advance. Jim Wiegel “We are all time travelers journeying into the future. But let us make that future a place we want to visit. “ Stephen Hawking _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Yes Jim. Thank you for your follow-up. It is true that that Finland, and for the most part the rest of Scandinavia, is very tech savvy. Estonia is very much in the sphere of influence of Finland. Besides singing and music, Estonia very much prides itself as being a math and science oriented country. At least they are proud of the people who pioneer in these areas. So yes most people are online. Most people can suffice with a smartphone and this gives them access to government anywhere in the world. On Mon, Jul 22, 2024, 12:18 AM James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Thanks, Ed; thanks, Dharma.
Local government and local community, whether bioregion or neighborhood or even intentional communities -- there seems to be an instinctive realization that that is important though how??
I did not know about Estonia--or maybe heard of it and forgot. Would it be correct to assume they made a signficant investment in technology to do that? Does most everyone there have online access??
To Dharma's point, at least in the US, I feel so self-obsessed with what is going on here that there is little room in my consciousness to think seriously of all the innovations elsewhere. Dharma, can you describe a bit the gap you see between "the west". And the "global south"?? And the places you mentioned --Russia, Israel, Ukraine, China. There is a lot of talk in Herman's study group about recovering indigenous world views and insights re: governance.
Jim Wiegel
“We are all time travelers journeying into the future. But let us make that future a place we want to visit. “ Stephen Hawking
On Jul 21, 2024, at 10:12 PM, Dharmalingam Vinasithamby < dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Jim, Related to your question about what innovations, shifts or changes would be needed, I (probably like many of you) am aware of the growing gap in world view between the “West” and the “Global South” in recent years. I see this particularly in Western perceptions of and attitudes to specific nations – Russia, Israel, Ukraine and China, among them. My (?jaundiced) explanation is that those who run the media are eager to keep the “West” in a bubble that shapes how they see the world. For some reason, they are either unable or uninterested in doing this for those outside the West. Identifying these gaps and trying to figure out what causes them would help us get a grip on this gap that will surely affect how we as the world envision the future.
Dharma
On Monday, 22 July 2024 at 09:25:59 am GMT+8, James Wiegel via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Some of you may remember Herman Greene. I am involved in a "study group" with him and several dozen others looking into what kind of governance we need moving forward in this century with all that it holds.
Just wondering what thoughts any of you might have about what improvements, innovations, shifts or changes in governance, politics, morals, leadership that might produce better outcomes for all of us?
Thanks in advance. Jim Wiegel
“We are all time travelers journeying into the future. But let us make that future a place we want to visit. “ Stephen Hawking
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Dear Jim, this is my bid to elaborate on the gaps THE PERCEPTION GAP BETWEEN THE WEST AND THE SOUTH Walden Bello’s article “Crisis of the West, Opportunity forthe Rest?” that Elsa forwarded is a good context for understanding the gaps in howthe West and the Global South perceives the world. At one time, this would not evenhave been an issue. Gaps in perception? Could the “Global South” even have a perceptionindependent of the West? But as Walden explains, with the unravelling of the globalhegemony of the US and its allies, the liberal “rules-based” order has lost itslegitimacy, and many countries recognize it as a system designed to keep themdown. ISRAEL: The article describes the US, in its relations withIsrael, as “reduced to a dog being wagged by the Zionist tail”. Fornon-Westerners, the racism that drives Israeli leaders is not surprising. But theypuzzle over the readiness of the US to get involved in what is clearly another country’sgenocidal mission to broaden its territory. Why do they do that? And it’sinteresting that American youth seem to havea different take. RUSSIA & UKRAINE: Russia is shown as going after Ukraineto compensate for the pain of having seen the Soviet Union collapse. The US,its European allies and Nato are presented as saviours. But in the South, it’s seenas America’s proxy war against Russia with Ukraine as its pawn. The US regime changetactics that ousted President Viktor Yanukovych a decade ago, the use of Natomembership as a bait for Zelensky, and the pressure on him to withdraw frompeace talks with Russia are not forgotten. The US, not Russia, is seen as themastermind willing to shed Ukrainian blood to further its ends. Attempts to get nations in the South to condemn Russia are mainlyunsuccessful and seen as a bid to boost the anti-Russia strategy. US appeals forinternational law against the invasion of a sovereign nation to be honouredring hollow compared to US invasions over the years. CHINA: In this unravelling, the rise of China, the world’slargest economy, plays an important part. The US hopes and believes it can containit. Nations in the South know this drives the foreign relations of the US and areunlikely to be taken in by anti-China narratives. They welcome China’s rise asit has given them an economic boost. At the same time, especially in Asean andIndia, there is worry over China’s growing appetite for broadening its borders. On Monday, 22 July 2024 at 01:18:24 pm GMT+8, James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> wrote: Thanks, Ed; thanks, Dharma. Local government and local community, whether bioregion or neighborhood or even intentional communities -- there seems to be an instinctive realization that that is important though how?? I did not know about Estonia--or maybe heard of it and forgot. Would it be correct to assume they made a signficant investment in technology to do that? Does most everyone there have online access?? To Dharma's point, at least in the US, I feel so self-obsessed with what is going on here that there is little room in my consciousness to think seriously of all the innovations elsewhere. Dharma, can you describe a bit the gap you see between "the west". And the "global south"?? And the places you mentioned --Russia, Israel, Ukraine, China. There is a lot of talk in Herman's study group about recovering indigenous world views and insights re: governance. Jim Wiegel “We are all time travelers journeying into the future. But let us make that future a place we want to visit. “ Stephen Hawking On Jul 21, 2024, at 10:12 PM, Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> wrote: Hi Jim,Related to your question about what innovations, shifts or changes would be needed, I (probably like many of you) am aware of the growing gap in world view between the “West” and the “Global South” in recent years. I see this particularly in Western perceptions of and attitudes to specific nations – Russia, Israel, Ukraine and China, among them. My (?jaundiced) explanation is that those who run the media are eager to keep the “West” in a bubble that shapes how they see the world. For some reason, they are either unable or uninterested in doing this for those outside the West. Identifying these gaps and trying to figure out what causes them would help us get a grip on this gap that will surely affect how we as the world envision the future. Dharma On Monday, 22 July 2024 at 09:25:59 am GMT+8, James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Some of you may remember Herman Greene. I am involved in a "study group" with him and several dozen others looking into what kind of governance we need moving forward in this century with all that it holds. Just wondering what thoughts any of you might have about what improvements, innovations, shifts or changes in governance, politics, morals, leadership that might produce better outcomes for all of us? Thanks in advance. Jim Wiegel “We are all time travelers journeying into the future. But let us make that future a place we want to visit. “ Stephen Hawking _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Helpful to see this not as ‘who’s right,’ but – as stated – different perceptions. Assuming everyone does – or should – see things the same is a bit illusory as well as dangerous. That said, assuming that all the West or all the Global South agree internally is also a bit overreaching. Trends are there, but are more complex than simple. FWIW Bill Schlesinger Project Vida www.pvida.net 3607 Rivera Avenue El Paso TX 79905 (915) 465-1191 Ext. 207 (915) 490-6148 Cell From: OE <oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> On Behalf Of Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2024 3:05 AM To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Cc: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com>; Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Our Future --- as it so happens . . . Dear Jim, this is my bid to elaborate on the gaps THE PERCEPTION GAP BETWEEN THE WEST AND THE SOUTH Walden Bello’s article “Crisis of the West, Opportunity for the Rest?” that Elsa forwarded is a good context for understanding the gaps in how the West and the Global South perceives the world. At one time, this would not even have been an issue. Gaps in perception? Could the “Global South” even have a perception independent of the West? But as Walden explains, with the unravelling of the global hegemony of the US and its allies, the liberal “rules-based” order has lost its legitimacy, and many countries recognize it as a system designed to keep them down. ISRAEL: The article describes the US, in its relations with Israel, as “reduced to a dog being wagged by the Zionist tail”. For non-Westerners, the racism that drives Israeli leaders is not surprising. But they puzzle over the readiness of the US to get involved in what is clearly another country’s genocidal mission to broaden its territory. Why do they do that? And it’s interesting that American youth seem to have a different take. RUSSIA & UKRAINE: Russia is shown as going after Ukraine to compensate for the pain of having seen the Soviet Union collapse. The US, its European allies and Nato are presented as saviours. But in the South, it’s seen as America’s proxy war against Russia with Ukraine as its pawn. The US regime change tactics that ousted President Viktor Yanukovych a decade ago, the use of Nato membership as a bait for Zelensky, and the pressure on him to withdraw from peace talks with Russia are not forgotten. The US, not Russia, is seen as the mastermind willing to shed Ukrainian blood to further its ends. Attempts to get nations in the South to condemn Russia are mainly unsuccessful and seen as a bid to boost the anti-Russia strategy. US appeals for international law against the invasion of a sovereign nation to be honoured ring hollow compared to US invasions over the years. CHINA: In this unravelling, the rise of China, the world’s largest economy, plays an important part. The US hopes and believes it can contain it. Nations in the South know this drives the foreign relations of the US and are unlikely to be taken in by anti-China narratives. They welcome China’s rise as it has given them an economic boost. At the same time, especially in Asean and India, there is worry over China’s growing appetite for broadening its borders. On Monday, 22 July 2024 at 01:18:24 pm GMT+8, James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com <mailto:jfwiegel@yahoo.com> > wrote: Thanks, Ed; thanks, Dharma. Local government and local community, whether bioregion or neighborhood or even intentional communities -- there seems to be an instinctive realization that that is important though how?? I did not know about Estonia--or maybe heard of it and forgot. Would it be correct to assume they made a signficant investment in technology to do that? Does most everyone there have online access?? To Dharma's point, at least in the US, I feel so self-obsessed with what is going on here that there is little room in my consciousness to think seriously of all the innovations elsewhere. Dharma, can you describe a bit the gap you see between "the west". And the "global south"?? And the places you mentioned --Russia, Israel, Ukraine, China. There is a lot of talk in Herman's study group about recovering indigenous world views and insights re: governance. Jim Wiegel “We are all time travelers journeying into the future. But let us make that future a place we want to visit. “ Stephen Hawking On Jul 21, 2024, at 10:12 PM, Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com <mailto:dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> > wrote: Hi Jim, Related to your question about what innovations, shifts or changes would be needed, I (probably like many of you) am aware of the growing gap in world view between the “West” and the “Global South” in recent years. I see this particularly in Western perceptions of and attitudes to specific nations – Russia, Israel, Ukraine and China, among them. My (?jaundiced) explanation is that those who run the media are eager to keep the “West” in a bubble that shapes how they see the world. For some reason, they are either unable or uninterested in doing this for those outside the West. Identifying these gaps and trying to figure out what causes them would help us get a grip on this gap that will surely affect how we as the world envision the future. Dharma On Monday, 22 July 2024 at 09:25:59 am GMT+8, James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> > wrote: Some of you may remember Herman Greene. I am involved in a "study group" with him and several dozen others looking into what kind of governance we need moving forward in this century with all that it holds. Just wondering what thoughts any of you might have about what improvements, innovations, shifts or changes in governance, politics, morals, leadership that might produce better outcomes for all of us? Thanks in advance. Jim Wiegel “We are all time travelers journeying into the future. But let us make that future a place we want to visit. “ Stephen Hawking _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net <https://www.google.com/url?q=http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net&source=gmail-imap&ust=1722330339000000&usg=AOvVaw2JeXuWIwvq56vRDGyHiQSN> -- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you
Hi Jim, Here are some musings re leadership for your study group to chew on. Responses are welcome. The Locus of Leadership: making a way (six marks) Cultivating a rigorous reality orientation: this includes affirming ambiguity, being willing to live with questions, and always asking, “what is the real situation and how do we know?” Assuring and ensuring a liveable future – asking “how are the coming generations to live” (Dietrich Bonhoeffer’s query)? This “mark” presumes the importance of the entire biosphere in a liveable future; hence, it might be termed an ecological orientation. Speaking truth to power – calling power into accountability; This mark indicates solidarity with the oppressed and the resolve to be and live in accountable solidarity. Demonstrating and Fostering hopeful engagement – presuming and reinforcing agency, personal and communal; This mark presumes that others have the capacity for decisional responsibility; it also assumes an open future that is, as yet, unformed. Shaping and ensuring viable community – a bias for communal wellbeing. This mark presumes that community is that without which humanity is not; we are a communal species; we do not live simply as god-like individuals bound by a self-serving survival instinct. Cultivating historical memory and imagination (the Sankofa principle– embodying and bringing a sense of history - remythologizing the archaic); This mark underscores the centrality of story – historical narrative – and the importance of social rituals and symbols that rehearse the stories that give meaning to our lives. This is searching for the gems hidden in our past that are relevant to the present moment, and recontextualizing them in ways that illuminate our times. (In West African mythology, the Sankofa bird moves into the future with an eye on the past, searching for the pearls that need be carried into the future – or the eggs that house the yet unborn). © R. James Addington, MAL July 2024 Use with attribution
On 07/21/2024 6:25 PM PDT James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Some of you may remember Herman Greene. I am involved in a "study group" with him and several dozen others looking into what kind of governance we need moving forward in this century with all that it holds.
Just wondering what thoughts any of you might have about what improvements, innovations, shifts or changes in governance, politics, morals, leadership that might produce better outcomes for all of us?
Thanks in advance. Jim Wiegel
“We are all time travelers journeying into the future. But let us make that future a place we want to visit. “ Stephen Hawking
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Thanks, Jim. May I share this with the other study group? A subgroup of us have been exploring the notion of a "truth quest" approach to decision making -- based on some background related to indigenous cultures, particularly the San people in South Africa. To me it is a bit similar to the approach of "Theory U" -- both of which would seem to have implications not only for decision making but also re: qualities of leadership. Thanks for sharing. (And also for doing the work of articulating these marks. I seem to recall, around the 30th anniversary of ICA in the US a pamphlet describing marks of leadership. Jim Wiegel “We are all time travelers journeying into the future. But let us make that future a place we want to visit. “ Stephen Hawking
On Jul 22, 2024, at 12:56 PM, JAMES ADDINGTON <inarja@comcast.net> wrote:
Hi Jim, Here are some musings re leadership for your study group to chew on. Responses are welcome. The Locus of Leadership: making a way (six marks)
Cultivating a rigorous reality orientation: this includes affirming ambiguity, being willing to live with questions, and always asking, “what is the real situation and how do we know?”
Assuring and ensuring a liveable future – asking “how are the coming generations to live” (Dietrich Bonhoeffer’s query)? This “mark” presumes the importance of the entire biosphere in a liveable future; hence, it might be termed an ecological orientation.
Speaking truth to power – calling power into accountability; This mark indicates solidarity with the oppressed and the resolve to be and live in accountable solidarity.
Demonstrating and Fostering hopeful engagement – presuming and reinforcing agency, personal and communal; This mark presumes that others have the capacity for decisional responsibility; it also assumes an open future that is, as yet, unformed.
Shaping and ensuring viable community – a bias for communal wellbeing. This mark presumes that community is that without which humanity is not; we are a communal species; we do not live simply as god-like individuals bound by a self-serving survival instinct.
Cultivating historical memory and imagination (the Sankofa principle– embodying and bringing a sense of history - remythologizing the archaic); This mark underscores the centrality of story – historical narrative – and the importance of social rituals and symbols that rehearse the stories that give meaning to our lives. This is searching for the gems hidden in our past that are relevant to the present moment, and recontextualizing them in ways that illuminate our times. (In West African mythology, the Sankofa bird moves into the future with an eye on the past, searching for the pearls that need be carried into the future – or the eggs that house the yet unborn).
© R. James Addington, MAL July 2024 Use with attribution
On 07/21/2024 6:25 PM PDT James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Some of you may remember Herman Greene. I am involved in a "study group" with him and several dozen others looking into what kind of governance we need moving forward in this century with all that it holds.
Just wondering what thoughts any of you might have about what improvements, innovations, shifts or changes in governance, politics, morals, leadership that might produce better outcomes for all of us?
Thanks in advance. Jim Wiegel “We are all time travelers journeying into the future. But let us make that future a place we want to visit. “ Stephen Hawking
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
James Addington, these marks of the Locus of Leadership are transforming. How have you seen or do you suggest communities use these marks? Clearly, I can see it as a helpful screen to evaluate leadership action. How else do you see it used? Thanks, Sharon Fisher On Mon, Jul 22, 2024 at 1:46 PM James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Thanks, Jim. May I share this with the other study group? A subgroup of us have been exploring the notion of a "truth quest" approach to decision making -- based on some background related to indigenous cultures, particularly the San people in South Africa. To me it is a bit similar to the approach of "Theory U" -- both of which would seem to have implications not only for decision making but also re: qualities of leadership.
Thanks for sharing. (And also for doing the work of articulating these marks. I seem to recall, around the 30th anniversary of ICA in the US a pamphlet describing marks of leadership. Jim Wiegel
“We are all time travelers journeying into the future. But let us make that future a place we want to visit. “ Stephen Hawking
On Jul 22, 2024, at 12:56 PM, JAMES ADDINGTON <inarja@comcast.net> wrote:
Hi Jim, Here are some musings re leadership for your study group to chew on. Responses are welcome. *The Locus of Leadership: making a way (six marks) *
Cultivating a *rigorous reality orientati*on: this includes affirming ambiguity, being willing to live with questions, and always asking, “what is the real situation and how do we know?”
Assuring and ensuring a *liveable future* – asking “how are the coming generations to live” (Dietrich Bonhoeffer’s query)? This “mark” presumes the importance of the entire biosphere in a liveable future; hence, it might be termed an ecological orientation.
Speaking *truth to powe*r – calling power into accountability; This mark indicates solidarity with the oppressed and the resolve to be and live in accountable solidarity.
Demonstrating and Fostering *hopeful engagement* – presuming and reinforcing agency, personal and communal; This mark presumes that others have the capacity for decisional responsibility; it also assumes an open future that is, as yet, unformed.
Shaping and ensuring *viable community* – a bias for communal wellbeing. This mark presumes that community is that without which humanity is not; we are a communal species; we do not live simply as god-like individuals bound by a self-serving survival instinct.
Cultivating* historical memory* *and imagination* (the Sankofa principle– embodying and bringing a sense of history - remythologizing the archaic); This mark underscores the centrality of story – historical narrative – and the importance of social rituals and symbols that rehearse the stories that give meaning to our lives. This is searching for the gems hidden in our past that are relevant to the present moment, and recontextualizing them in ways that illuminate our times. (*In West* *African mythology, the Sankofa bird moves into the future with an eye on the past, searching for the pearls that need be carried into the future – or the eggs that house the yet unborn)*.
© R. James Addington, *MAL* July 2024 Use with attribution
On 07/21/2024 6:25 PM PDT James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Some of you may remember Herman Greene. I am involved in a "study group" with him and several dozen others looking into what kind of governance we need moving forward in this century with all that it holds.
Just wondering what thoughts any of you might have about what improvements, innovations, shifts or changes in governance, politics, morals, leadership that might produce better outcomes for all of us?
Thanks in advance. Jim Wiegel
“We are all time travelers journeying into the future. But let us make that future a place we want to visit. “ Stephen Hawking
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
-- saf1220@gmail.com c: 503.807.7385
At least as a template that allows communities to assess, cultivate, and urge... James
On 07/22/2024 2:39 PM PDT Sharon Fisher <saf1220@gmail.com> wrote:
James Addington, these marks of the Locus of Leadership are transforming. How have you seen or do you suggest communities use these marks? Clearly, I can see it as a helpful screen to evaluate leadership action. How else do you see it used?
Thanks, Sharon Fisher
On Mon, Jul 22, 2024 at 1:46 PM James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Thanks, Jim. May I share this with the other study group? A subgroup of us have been exploring the notion of a "truth quest" approach to decision making -- based on some background related to indigenous cultures, particularly the San people in South Africa. To me it is a bit similar to the approach of "Theory U" -- both of which would seem to have implications not only for decision making but also re: qualities of leadership.
Thanks for sharing. (And also for doing the work of articulating these marks. I seem to recall, around the 30th anniversary of ICA in the US a pamphlet describing marks of leadership. Jim Wiegel
“We are all time travelers journeying into the future. But let us make that future a place we want to visit. “ Stephen Hawking
On Jul 22, 2024, at 12:56 PM, JAMES ADDINGTON <inarja@comcast.net mailto:inarja@comcast.net> wrote:
Hi Jim, Here are some musings re leadership for your study group to chew on. Responses are welcome. The Locus of Leadership: making a way (six marks)
Cultivating a rigorous reality orientation: this includes affirming ambiguity, being willing to live with questions, and always asking, “what is the real situation and how do we know?”
Assuring and ensuring a liveable future – asking “how are the coming generations to live” (Dietrich Bonhoeffer’s query)? This “mark” presumes the importance of the entire biosphere in a liveable future; hence, it might be termed an ecological orientation.
Speaking truth to power – calling power into accountability; This mark indicates solidarity with the oppressed and the resolve to be and live in accountable solidarity.
Demonstrating and Fostering hopeful engagement – presuming and reinforcing agency, personal and communal; This mark presumes that others have the capacity for decisional responsibility; it also assumes an open future that is, as yet, unformed.
Shaping and ensuring viable community – a bias for communal wellbeing. This mark presumes that community is that without which humanity is not; we are a communal species; we do not live simply as god-like individuals bound by a self-serving survival instinct.
Cultivating historical memory and imagination (the Sankofa principle– embodying and bringing a sense of history - remythologizing the archaic); This mark underscores the centrality of story – historical narrative – and the importance of social rituals and symbols that rehearse the stories that give meaning to our lives. This is searching for the gems hidden in our past that are relevant to the present moment, and recontextualizing them in ways that illuminate our times. (In West African mythology, the Sankofa bird moves into the future with an eye on the past, searching for the pearls that need be carried into the future – or the eggs that house the yet unborn).
© R. James Addington, MAL July 2024 Use with attribution
On 07/21/2024 6:25 PM PDT James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Some of you may remember Herman Greene. I am involved in a "study group" with him and several dozen others looking into what kind of governance we need moving forward in this century with all that it holds.
Just wondering what thoughts any of you might have about what improvements, innovations, shifts or changes in governance, politics, morals, leadership that might produce better outcomes for all of us?
Thanks in advance. Jim Wiegel
“We are all time travelers journeying into the future. But let us make that future a place we want to visit. “ Stephen Hawking
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
--
saf1220@gmail.com mailto:saf1220@gmail.com c: 503.807.7385
Feel free to share; if this stimulates a creative conversation, all the better. James
On 07/22/2024 1:45 PM PDT James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> wrote:
Thanks, Jim. May I share this with the other study group? A subgroup of us have been exploring the notion of a "truth quest" approach to decision making -- based on some background related to indigenous cultures, particularly the San people in South Africa. To me it is a bit similar to the approach of "Theory U" -- both of which would seem to have implications not only for decision making but also re: qualities of leadership.
Thanks for sharing. (And also for doing the work of articulating these marks. I seem to recall, around the 30th anniversary of ICA in the US a pamphlet describing marks of leadership. Jim Wiegel
“We are all time travelers journeying into the future. But let us make that future a place we want to visit. “ Stephen Hawking
On Jul 22, 2024, at 12:56 PM, JAMES ADDINGTON <inarja@comcast.net> wrote:
Hi Jim, Here are some musings re leadership for your study group to chew on. Responses are welcome. The Locus of Leadership: making a way (six marks)
Cultivating a rigorous reality orientation: this includes affirming ambiguity, being willing to live with questions, and always asking, “what is the real situation and how do we know?”
Assuring and ensuring a liveable future – asking “how are the coming generations to live” (Dietrich Bonhoeffer’s query)? This “mark” presumes the importance of the entire biosphere in a liveable future; hence, it might be termed an ecological orientation.
Speaking truth to power – calling power into accountability; This mark indicates solidarity with the oppressed and the resolve to be and live in accountable solidarity.
Demonstrating and Fostering hopeful engagement – presuming and reinforcing agency, personal and communal; This mark presumes that others have the capacity for decisional responsibility; it also assumes an open future that is, as yet, unformed.
Shaping and ensuring viable community – a bias for communal wellbeing. This mark presumes that community is that without which humanity is not; we are a communal species; we do not live simply as god-like individuals bound by a self-serving survival instinct.
Cultivating historical memory and imagination (the Sankofa principle– embodying and bringing a sense of history - remythologizing the archaic); This mark underscores the centrality of story – historical narrative – and the importance of social rituals and symbols that rehearse the stories that give meaning to our lives. This is searching for the gems hidden in our past that are relevant to the present moment, and recontextualizing them in ways that illuminate our times. (In West African mythology, the Sankofa bird moves into the future with an eye on the past, searching for the pearls that need be carried into the future – or the eggs that house the yet unborn).
© R. James Addington, MAL July 2024 Use with attribution
On 07/21/2024 6:25 PM PDT James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Some of you may remember Herman Greene. I am involved in a "study group" with him and several dozen others looking into what kind of governance we need moving forward in this century with all that it holds.
Just wondering what thoughts any of you might have about what improvements, innovations, shifts or changes in governance, politics, morals, leadership that might produce better outcomes for all of us?
Thanks in advance. Jim Wiegel
“We are all time travelers journeying into the future. But let us make that future a place we want to visit. “ Stephen Hawking
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
participants (13)
-
A.M. Noel -
Dharmalingam Vinasithamby -
Don Bushman -
Ed Feldmanis -
JAMES ADDINGTON -
James Wiegel -
Randy Williams -
Sharon Fisher -
Sunny Walker -
Susan Fertig -
w.schlesinger＠pvida.net -
Wesson Gaige -
William Schlesinger