Re: [Oe List ...] Have you been watching the Vietnam series on PBS?
I'm profoundly grateful for this amazing 21st Century Art piece. Last night reminded me of a couple of Vietnam veterans: my cousin J.Mac Cates, a career army officer, who died young of leukemia, probably caused by agent orange exposure, as well as Israel Reyna, a teaching colleague. I appreciate this ongoing art form conversation. It has mostly been on the Reflective level. Can't wait for Interpretive and Decisional. Here's an Objective observation, though not an exact quote. An interviewee last night said that the student protests and veteran counter protests caused a divide in the country that has never healed. I was struck by young John Kerry's speech. I felt emotional when the veterans threw their medals at Nixon's White House barriers. Thank you all, Jann
Tonight was the final session. All that the US fought for was lost. But what we fought for was an abstraction at the leadership level and at the level of noncombatant citizens, right and left, as well. On the one hand we fought to defeat Communism and keep our promises to our allies, on the other we fought for a mistake. The lives of the people involved in the war on all sides, perpetrators and victims, were forgotten. Never has the story of this war or perhaps any war been told like it was in this series. All sides were presented. Every side was right and every side was wrong and so much, so much, so much carnage, suffering and tragedy. The armaments, the bombing, the artillery, oh my. Bullets flying by the millions. I feel anger for our the perfidy of our national leaders and for the war crimes committed on all sides. And I, like the protester at the end of the series, feel sorry at my own simplification of the issues, for my righteous, blind resistance. Three of my high school classmates died in the war. Now I want to go to the wall and touch their names. Herman On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 12:25 PM, McGuire, Jann & Fred via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
I'm profoundly grateful for this amazing 21st Century Art piece. Last night reminded me of a couple of Vietnam veterans: my cousin J.Mac Cates, a career army officer, who died young of leukemia, probably caused by agent orange exposure, as well as Israel Reyna, a teaching colleague.
I appreciate this ongoing art form conversation. It has mostly been on the Reflective level. Can't wait for Interpretive and Decisional. Here's an Objective observation, though not an exact quote. An interviewee last night said that the student protests and veteran counter protests caused a divide in the country that has never healed.
I was struck by young John Kerry's speech. I felt emotional when the veterans threw their medals at Nixon's White House barriers.
Thank you all,
Jann
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
-- __________________________________________________ Herman F. Greene 2516 Winningham Road Chapel Hill, NC 27516 919-942-4358 (ph & fax) hfgreenenc@gmail.com
Colleagues. Burna and I have been glued to "The Vietnam War” for all ten episodes. Tonight, for lots of reasons, the last hour of the last episode of the documentary broke my heart wide open. I cried a lot. David Footnotes. 1. Apropos "the upheaval of all that has been"—The Introduction to a little book of poems, Poema dla Russki Druzye (Poems for Russian Friends), 19 August 1992 A two-week visit in Moscow at the time of the abortive coup of August 19, 1991 and the reflection that followed during the next few months, is the occasion for an observation. A force is at work in the world with which historians, politicians, and sociologists have not yet reckoned—the powerful attraction between people once separated by ideology and ignorance. Even ten years ago, who could have imagined that on such a global scale the familiar, the prudent, the expected would all be set aside by life demanding to be reunited with life. Tourists, citizen diplomats, and entrepreneurs alike will be captured, broken open, and transformed by a passion for connection that arises in spite of all attempts to hold i back These poems are a way of saying thank you to may people who have become new friends on this journey of transformation. I know that the upheaval of all that has been is first and last an assault on the heart. I hope that you find courage to build what must be built. 2. Apropos the Viet Nam War veterans from both countries who were drawn together in Viet Nam to meet, remember, forgive, and serve: a poem from Poems for Russian Friends. Electric Arms You and I have been imprisoned by years of lies, held hostage by terrorists of heart and mind, afraid of letting either of us know the other. We strain at the bars keeping us apart with desperate longing to find the truth and courage to embrace it. Charged souls so long apart must feel somewhere deep within, so great a need to be united, they will do foolish things to find each other’s electric arms. 3. Apropos expanding one’s context through long term international, cross-cultural friendship—Burna’s and my friends, Alexey and Liuba Kuzmin in Moscow Alexey and I met in August 1991 at a Russian-American Family Camp (Virginia Satir model) in Moscow. Our families have spent time together in both Moscow and the US. Alexey and I check in with each other more or less weekly over Skype. He’s teaching about Program Evaluation in Turin, Italy this week. 4. Apropos the image of Russia and America as two exhausted prize fighters locked in a sweaty clinch—another poem from Poems for Russian Friends Mirrors We live in a world of mirrors, each nation reflected in another. Only other eyes see what we avoid; only other hearts forgive what we reject.
On Sep 28, 2017, at 8:24 PM, Herman Greene wrote:
On the one hand we fought to defeat Communism and keep our promises to our allies, on the other we fought for a mistake. The lives of the people involved in the war on all sides, perpetrators and victims, were forgotten.
— David Dunn 740 S Alton Way 9B Denver, CO 80247 720-314-5991 dmdunn1@gmail.com
Thanks so much David. My wife, Sandi, and I just sat silently for a long time after the end of the series. Herman On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 12:12 AM, David Dunn via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net
wrote:
Colleagues.
Burna and I have been glued to "The Vietnam War” for all ten episodes.
Tonight, for lots of reasons, the last hour of the last episode of the documentary broke my heart wide open. I cried a lot.
David
*Footnotes.*
1. *Apropos "the upheaval of all that has been"*—The Introduction to a little book of poems, *Poema dla Russki Druzye* (*Poems for Russian Friends*), 19 August 1992
A two-week visit in Moscow at the time of the abortive coup of August 19, 1991 and the reflection that followed during the next few months, is the occasion for an observation. A force is at work in the world with which historians, politicians, and sociologists have not yet reckoned—the powerful attraction between people once separated by ideology and ignorance. Even ten years ago, who could have imagined that on such a global scale the familiar, the prudent, the expected would all be set aside by life demanding to be reunited with life. Tourists, citizen diplomats, and entrepreneurs alike will be captured, broken open, and transformed by a passion for connection that arises in spite of all attempts to hold i back
These poems are a way of saying thank you to may people who have become new friends on this journey of transformation.
I know that the upheaval of all that has been is first and last an assault on the heart. I hope that you find courage to build what must be built.
2. *Apropos the Viet Nam War veterans from both countries *who were drawn together in Viet Nam to meet, remember, forgive, and serve: a poem from *Poems for Russian Friends*.
Electric Arms
You and I have been imprisoned by years of lies, held hostage by terrorists of heart and mind, afraid of letting either of us know the other.
We strain at the bars keeping us apart with desperate longing to find the truth and courage to embrace it.
Charged souls so long apart must feel somewhere deep within, so great a need to be united, they will do foolish things to find each other’s electric arms.
3. *Apropos expanding one’s context* through long term international, cross-cultural friendship—Burna’s and my friends, Alexey and Liuba Kuzmin in Moscow
Alexey and I met in August 1991 at a Russian-American Family Camp (Virginia Satir model) in Moscow. Our families have spent time together in both Moscow and the US. Alexey and I check in with each other more or less weekly over Skype. He’s teaching about Program Evaluation in Turin, Italy this week.
4. *Apropos the image of Russia and America* as two exhausted prize fighters locked in a sweaty clinch—another poem from *Poems for Russian Friends*
Mirrors
We live in a world of mirrors, each nation reflected in another. Only other eyes see what we avoid; only other hearts forgive what we reject.
On Sep 28, 2017, at 8:24 PM, Herman Greene wrote:
On the one hand we fought to defeat Communism and keep our promises to our allies, on the other we fought for a mistake. The lives of the people involved in the war on all sides, perpetrators and victims, were forgotten.
—
David Dunn 740 S Alton Way 9B Denver, CO 80247 720-314-5991 <(720)%20314-5991> dmdunn1@gmail.com
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
-- __________________________________________________ Herman F. Greene 2516 Winningham Road Chapel Hill, NC 27516 919-942-4358 (ph & fax) hfgreenenc@gmail.com
This was posted in my other group discussion I thought I'd share here. This is a fascinating story about CIA running of opium out of Laos, and getting it to the US and also the US troops in Vietnam, with many of them coming home as addicts. Note that it refers also to Edward Lansdale (Philippines CIA master) and research by Alfred McCoy. Burns and Novick also omitted this from their film: https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/09/29/armies-addicts-and-spooks-the-cia-in... Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 28, 2017, at 9:24 PM, Herman Greene via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Tonight was the final session. All that the US fought for was lost. But what we fought for was an abstraction at the leadership level and at the level of noncombatant citizens, right and left, as well. On the one hand we fought to defeat Communism and keep our promises to our allies, on the other we fought for a mistake. The lives of the people involved in the war on all sides, perpetrators and victims, were forgotten.
Never has the story of this war or perhaps any war been told like it was in this series. All sides were presented. Every side was right and every side was wrong and so much, so much, so much carnage, suffering and tragedy. The armaments, the bombing, the artillery, oh my. Bullets flying by the millions.
I feel anger for our the perfidy of our national leaders and for the war crimes committed on all sides. And I, like the protester at the end of the series, feel sorry at my own simplification of the issues, for my righteous, blind resistance.
Three of my high school classmates died in the war. Now I want to go to the wall and touch their names.
Herman
On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 12:25 PM, McGuire, Jann & Fred via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: I'm profoundly grateful for this amazing 21st Century Art piece. Last night reminded me of a couple of Vietnam veterans: my cousin J.Mac Cates, a career army officer, who died young of leukemia, probably caused by agent orange exposure, as well as Israel Reyna, a teaching colleague.
I appreciate this ongoing art form conversation. It has mostly been on the Reflective level. Can't wait for Interpretive and Decisional. Here's an Objective observation, though not an exact quote. An interviewee last night said that the student protests and veteran counter protests caused a divide in the country that has never healed.
I was struck by young John Kerry's speech. I felt emotional when the veterans threw their medals at Nixon's White House barriers.
Thank you all,
Jann
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
-- __________________________________________________ Herman F. Greene 2516 Winningham Road Chapel Hill, NC 27516 919-942-4358 (ph & fax) hfgreenenc@gmail.com _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Elsa, Thanks so much for the link! The CIA story of how they controlled and interfered with Governments all over the world is not in the awareness of the new generation and needs to be told. Jack On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 11:27 PM, Elsa Batica via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
This was posted in my other group discussion I thought I'd share here.
This is a fascinating story about CIA running of opium out of Laos, and getting it to the US and also the US troops in Vietnam, with many of them coming home as addicts.
Note that it refers also to Edward Lansdale (Philippines CIA master) and research by Alfred McCoy.
Burns and Novick also omitted this from their film: https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/09/29/armies-addicts-and- spooks-the-cia-in-vietnam-and-laos/
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 28, 2017, at 9:24 PM, Herman Greene via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Tonight was the final session. All that the US fought for was lost. But what we fought for was an abstraction at the leadership level and at the level of noncombatant citizens, right and left, as well. On the one hand we fought to defeat Communism and keep our promises to our allies, on the other we fought for a mistake. The lives of the people involved in the war on all sides, perpetrators and victims, were forgotten.
Never has the story of this war or perhaps any war been told like it was in this series. All sides were presented. Every side was right and every side was wrong and so much, so much, so much carnage, suffering and tragedy. The armaments, the bombing, the artillery, oh my. Bullets flying by the millions.
I feel anger for our the perfidy of our national leaders and for the war crimes committed on all sides. And I, like the protester at the end of the series, feel sorry at my own simplification of the issues, for my righteous, blind resistance.
Three of my high school classmates died in the war. Now I want to go to the wall and touch their names.
Herman
On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 12:25 PM, McGuire, Jann & Fred via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
I'm profoundly grateful for this amazing 21st Century Art piece. Last night reminded me of a couple of Vietnam veterans: my cousin J.Mac Cates, a career army officer, who died young of leukemia, probably caused by agent orange exposure, as well as Israel Reyna, a teaching colleague.
I appreciate this ongoing art form conversation. It has mostly been on the Reflective level. Can't wait for Interpretive and Decisional. Here's an Objective observation, though not an exact quote. An interviewee last night said that the student protests and veteran counter protests caused a divide in the country that has never healed.
I was struck by young John Kerry's speech. I felt emotional when the veterans threw their medals at Nixon's White House barriers.
Thank you all,
Jann
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
-- __________________________________________________ Herman F. Greene 2516 Winningham Road Chapel Hill, NC 27516 919-942-4358 (ph & fax) hfgreenenc@gmail.com
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade..net>
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participants (5)
-
David Dunn -
Elsa Batica -
Herman Greene -
Jack Gilles -
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