Thanks for this meaningful response, Jack, for it does speak to the other side of things, which is to truly appreciate the being and works of this colleague. I most certainly do honor what Charles has given to the world in the past, and what his life has meant o those who've known him. I guess I was simply so shocked at the way he chose to do this, especially not letting his family know of his plans. This is one of the reasons I felt it was totally unfair of him to choose this way out life. I appreciate his life, but still consider his act one of a totally disillusioned man, rather than an act of social conscience. But, as usual, that is my opinion. I am sure that Charles' hope included that his death would, indeed, stimulate dialogue of one kind or another, not only by us, but by all who saw and heard about it. Del Del Hunter Morrill 3217 North Mason Avenue Tacoma WA 98407-5419 H: (253) 752-1506; W: (253) 383-5757 delhmor@wamail.net Web site: www. hypnocenter.com The cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you seek. (Joseph Campbell) -----Original Message----- From: Jack Gilles [mailto:jackcgilles@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2014 8:39 AM To: Del Morril Cc: Order Ecumenical Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] death of Charles Moore Del, For many of us we are his family, still. It is not for us to judge his act nor its sanity. That is between he and the Mystery, which I am sure he was deeply aware of. It sounds insane and a waste to most, I'm sure. I certainly wouldn't have done it. But that is an opinion and we will never know the deeps of his soul or the call he felt. Our task is to celebrate his existence, his place in the galaxy of the Order and pray for his immediate family that they may be comforted. In one sense all our deaths are absurd. We were born to be free and act in forgiveness. I take him at his word and deed. We die our own deaths or we allow death to decide for us. As I said, his choice is not my choice, but he certainly understood the call to act on behalf of all. The last time I saw Charles was at the 2000 Order Gathering in Vail. He spoke and it was not received well and for that I am sorry. He was a beloved man, with so many gifts and so much anguish. May he be at home in the ultimate Mystery. I shall miss him and am grateful for having him shape, as so many hundreds did, my life and direction. Grace & Peace, Jack On Jul 3, 2014, at 10:22 AM, Del Morril via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Can you imagine what this act has done to his family?! He may think it
was
sacrificial, but I think, like any open suicide for any reason, it is totally self-serving, regardless of his philosophy! An insane demonstration, from my perspective, and yet, in some ways, understandable. I just don't think it will make a bit of difference in changing the social conscience. That's the truly sad part of this act.
-----Original Message----- From: Dialogue [mailto:dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of George Holcombe via Dialogue Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2014 12:19 AM To: ICA/OE List Serves; ICA/OE List Serves Subject: Re: [Dialogue] death of Charles Moore
Our colleague Charles immolated himself June 23, see article at
http://www.umc.org/news-and-media/retired-pastor-saw-destiny-in-self-immolat
ion
Memorial service will be held July 12 at Faith Presbyterian Church in Austin.
George Holcombe 14900 Yellowleaf Tr. Austin, TX 78728 Mobile 512/252-2756
"...we have the choice: we can gratefully cultivate the relationships that make us part of a vast network, or we can take them for granted and allow them to wither and die." Brother David Steindl-Rast, Deeper than Words
Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
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Like many of us, the last time I saw Charles was at the Vail event in 2000. The mode and intentionality of his death are very much appropriate topics for our reflection; so is our way of celebrating this unrepeatable life by recalling our own stories and the impact this life had on us. I generally appreciated Charles' dour perspective on whatever was happening, including what we were doing at the moment and he was himself involved in. In a community which was decisionally upbeat, Charles perpetually saw a lack of attire on the Emperor--and I found refreshing his willingness to share those perceptions with the rest of us. A line attributed to Thomas Hardy comes to my mind when I think of Charles: "Cheer up--the worst is yet to come." Our only posting together was the team sent to Maliwada in 1976 to launch the first HDTIs and the replication effort in Maharashtra. Charles and Pat were there for the first year. All of us on that team are profoundly indebted to Pat's keeping us alive during it by managing to find food when there was none. My recollection is that Charles found himself utterly lost in that environment and soldiered on during the year they spent there without ever finding a role that genuinely engaged him. Most of what happened in his life after that I knew little about. My favorite recollection of Charles, though, is of a moment during the 1971 Global Research Assembly. Our plenaries that summer were at Malcolm X College (pre-Kemper era). On the occasion of this evening's plenary, a thousand or so of us were gathered in the assembly hall following dinner, and there was a great deal of excitement and accompanying din. I happened to be backstage with Joe and a few of the staff, getting ready for the upcoming session. Joe turned and said, "The mood out there is entirely too high. Charles, will you go out and say a few words." This simple request broke us all up for a moment, recognizing that Joe was calling on one of our colleague's special gifts, namely, that of lowering the mood of a group. Charles did go out and say a few words, and the mood quieted dramatically. I have sometimes told this story, which sticks in my memory along with the one Slicker was fond of telling about his friend, Red, as a way of recognizing that we all have remarkable gifts to contribute to the mission, however strange they may appear to be. We celebrate this completed life of a colleague -- Gordon On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 8:49 AM, Del Morril via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Thanks for this meaningful response, Jack, for it does speak to the other side of things, which is to truly appreciate the being and works of this colleague. I most certainly do honor what Charles has given to the world in the past, and what his life has meant o those who've known him.
I guess I was simply so shocked at the way he chose to do this, especially not letting his family know of his plans. This is one of the reasons I felt it was totally unfair of him to choose this way out life. I appreciate his life, but still consider his act one of a totally disillusioned man, rather than an act of social conscience. But, as usual, that is my opinion.
I am sure that Charles' hope included that his death would, indeed, stimulate dialogue of one kind or another, not only by us, but by all who saw and heard about it.
Del
Del Hunter Morrill 3217 North Mason Avenue Tacoma WA 98407-5419 H: (253) 752-1506; W: (253) 383-5757 delhmor@wamail.net Web site: www. hypnocenter.com
The cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you seek. (Joseph Campbell)
-----Original Message----- From: Jack Gilles [mailto:jackcgilles@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2014 8:39 AM To: Del Morril Cc: Order Ecumenical Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] death of Charles Moore
Del,
For many of us we are his family, still. It is not for us to judge his act nor its sanity. That is between he and the Mystery, which I am sure he was deeply aware of. It sounds insane and a waste to most, I'm sure. I certainly wouldn't have done it. But that is an opinion and we will never know the deeps of his soul or the call he felt. Our task is to celebrate his existence, his place in the galaxy of the Order and pray for his immediate family that they may be comforted.
In one sense all our deaths are absurd. We were born to be free and act in forgiveness. I take him at his word and deed. We die our own deaths or we allow death to decide for us. As I said, his choice is not my choice, but he certainly understood the call to act on behalf of all.
The last time I saw Charles was at the 2000 Order Gathering in Vail. He spoke and it was not received well and for that I am sorry. He was a beloved man, with so many gifts and so much anguish. May he be at home in the ultimate Mystery. I shall miss him and am grateful for having him shape, as so many hundreds did, my life and direction.
Grace & Peace,
Jack
On Jul 3, 2014, at 10:22 AM, Del Morril via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Can you imagine what this act has done to his family?! He may think it
was
sacrificial, but I think, like any open suicide for any reason, it is totally self-serving, regardless of his philosophy! An insane demonstration, from my perspective, and yet, in some ways, understandable. I just don't think it will make a bit of difference in changing the social conscience. That's the truly sad part of this act.
-----Original Message----- From: Dialogue [mailto:dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of George Holcombe via Dialogue Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2014 12:19 AM To: ICA/OE List Serves; ICA/OE List Serves Subject: Re: [Dialogue] death of Charles Moore
Our colleague Charles immolated himself June 23, see article at
ion
Memorial service will be held July 12 at Faith Presbyterian Church in Austin.
George Holcombe 14900 Yellowleaf Tr. Austin, TX 78728 Mobile 512/252-2756
"...we have the choice: we can gratefully cultivate the relationships
http://www.umc.org/news-and-media/retired-pastor-saw-destiny-in-self-immolat that
make us part of a vast network, or we can take them for granted and allow them to wither and die." Brother David Steindl-Rast, Deeper than Words
Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
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I worked with Charles on a couple of courses in Bombay and at other events. I too was struck by his dry humour and dour perspective. I, too do not know what was going on in Charles mind when he immolated himself and also do not want to hurt his memory and that of his relatives with my comments. But I do not find this act an inspiration although it does draw attention to what he may have said about racism in the US. But the shocking nature of this act can cause us to either speak imprudently or clam up with guilt. To use a cliche, "all of us live lives of quiet desperation". I remember rumours from a decade or so ago of Charles' plan to immolate himself in a similar fashion. Did we miss an important signal of what was happening in his interior then? I too missed seeing what was happening to one of my colleagues who ended up immolating herself in one of our projects in India. While each of us are responsible for our own interior, we can be of help to others if we stay alert. with love and respect towards Charles and all of us. Dharma On Friday, July 4, 2014 3:04 AM, Gordon Harper via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Like many of us, the last time I saw Charles was at the Vail event in 2000. The mode and intentionality of his death are very much appropriate topics for our reflection; so is our way of celebrating this unrepeatable life by recalling our own stories and the impact this life had on us.
I generally appreciated Charles' dour perspective on whatever was happening, including what we were doing at the moment and he was himself involved in. In a community which was decisionally upbeat, Charles perpetually saw a lack of attire on the Emperor--and I found refreshing his willingness to share those perceptions with the rest of us. A line attributed to Thomas Hardy comes to my mind when I think of Charles: "Cheer up--the worst is yet to come."
Our only posting together was the team sent to Maliwada in 1976 to launch the first HDTIs and the replication effort in Maharashtra. Charles and Pat were there for the first year. All of us on that team are profoundly indebted to Pat's keeping us alive during it by managing to find food when there was none. My recollection is that Charles found himself utterly lost in that environment and soldiered on during the year they spent there without ever finding a role that genuinely engaged him. Most of what happened in his life after that I knew little about.
My favorite recollection of Charles, though, is of a moment during the 1971 Global Research Assembly. Our plenaries that summer were at Malcolm X College (pre-Kemper era). On the occasion of this evening's plenary, a thousand or so of us were gathered in the assembly hall following dinner, and there was a great deal of excitement and accompanying din. I happened to be backstage with Joe and a few of the staff, getting ready for the upcoming session. Joe turned and said, "The mood out there is entirely too high. Charles, will you go out and say a few words."
This simple request broke us all up for a moment, recognizing that Joe was calling on one of our colleague's special gifts, namely, that of lowering the mood of a group. Charles did go out and say a few words, and the mood quieted dramatically. I have sometimes told this story, which sticks in my memory along with the one Slicker was fond of telling about his friend, Red, as a way of recognizing that we all have remarkable gifts to contribute to the mission, however strange they may appear to be.
We celebrate this completed life of a colleague --
Gordon
On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 8:49 AM, Del Morril via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Thanks for this meaningful response, Jack, for it does speak to the other
side of things, which is to truly appreciate the being and works of this colleague. I most certainly do honor what Charles has given to the world in the past, and what his life has meant o those who've known him.
I guess I was simply so shocked at the way he chose to do this, especially not letting his family know of his plans. This is one of the reasons I felt it was totally unfair of him to choose this way out life. I appreciate his life, but still consider his act one of a totally disillusioned man, rather than an act of social conscience. But, as usual, that is my opinion.
I am sure that Charles' hope included that his death would, indeed, stimulate dialogue of one kind or another, not only by us, but by all who saw and heard about it.
Del
Del Hunter Morrill 3217 North Mason Avenue Tacoma WA 98407-5419 H: (253) 752-1506; W: (253) 383-5757 delhmor@wamail.net Web site: www. hypnocenter.com
The cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you seek. (Joseph Campbell)
-----Original Message----- From: Jack Gilles [mailto:jackcgilles@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2014 8:39 AM To: Del Morril Cc: Order Ecumenical Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] death of Charles Moore
Del,
For many of us we are his family, still. It is not for us to judge his act nor its sanity. That is between he and the Mystery, which I am sure he was deeply aware of. It sounds insane and a waste to most, I'm sure. I certainly wouldn't have done it. But that is an opinion and we will never know the deeps of his soul or the call he felt. Our task is to celebrate his existence, his place in the galaxy of the Order and pray for his immediate family that they may be comforted.
In one sense all our deaths are absurd. We were born to be free and act in forgiveness. I take him at his word and deed. We die our own deaths or we allow death to decide for us. As I said, his choice is not my choice, but he certainly understood the call to act on behalf of all.
The last time I saw Charles was at the 2000 Order Gathering in Vail. He spoke and it was not received well and for that I am sorry. He was a beloved man, with so many gifts and so much anguish. May he be at home in the ultimate Mystery. I shall miss him and am grateful for having him shape, as so many hundreds did, my life and direction.
Grace & Peace,
Jack
On Jul 3, 2014, at 10:22 AM, Del Morril via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Can you imagine what this act has done to his family?! He may think it was sacrificial, but I think, like any open suicide for any reason, it is totally self-serving, regardless of his philosophy! An insane demonstration, from my perspective, and yet, in some ways, understandable. I just don't think it will make a bit of difference in changing the social conscience. That's the truly sad part of this act.
-----Original Message----- From: Dialogue [mailto:dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of George Holcombe via Dialogue Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2014 12:19 AM To: ICA/OE List Serves; ICA/OE List Serves Subject: Re: [Dialogue] death of Charles Moore
Our colleague Charles immolated himself June 23, see article at
http://www.umc.org/news-and-media/retired-pastor-saw-destiny-in-self-immolat
ion
Memorial service will be held July 12 at Faith Presbyterian Church in Austin.
George Holcombe 14900 Yellowleaf Tr. Austin, TX 78728 Mobile 512/252-2756
"...we have the choice: we can gratefully cultivate the relationships that make us part of a vast network, or we can take them for granted and allow them to wither and die." Brother David Steindl-Rast, Deeper than Words
Sent from my iPad _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
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participants (3)
-
Del Morril via OE -
Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE
-
Gordon Harper via OE