I became an American in 1983 (and maintained dual citizenship since the Philippines recognizes two allegiances) so I am not quite an outsider as Dharma is, but I share his sentiments and more. 1968 was the "earthrise" of which I was an intentional casualty, and in it, the picture of nations and their flags faded as the singular image of the earth took me in. I suppose, the Order was that for me, a new gluteal reality that transcended the fealty to nations, though we all still carried our individual passports. Whether Hillary ever had an RS-I, or looked at the materials, is of no importance. And the US, in its quadrennial frenzy to have an occupant in the White House, has diminished the place's mythological powers, as it should. Camelot was a media image. Obama is to be thanked for that for crossing the color line, and not acting cowed while in Office, and Hillary will act the same way as she will be the first woman president of the US. One only has to pick up an elementary School Social Studies book to see the pictures of the Presidents to be all male, and all white, until Barack. Susan's calling Hillary "criminal" reflects an American perspective, though as Randy has said, he has yet to see any charge that she actually committed a crime, her understandable though perhaps unjustifiable use of a private Internet server as the Secretary of State, notwithstanding. Hillary will be President, or I am returning my blue book. Wild, neh? Jaime V wangzhimu2031 earthrise consciousness, a gift; earthbound commitment, my choice yesterday, appreciate; tomorrow, anticipate; today, participate! in all, celebrate! -----Original Message----- From: via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: oe <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Thu, Nov 3, 2016 12:34 am Subject: OE Digest, Vol 56, Issue 5 Send OE mailing list submissions to oe@lists.wedgeblade.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net You can reach the person managing the list at oe-owner@lists.wedgeblade.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of OE digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. - Dear Susan (Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE) 2. Salmon: Reflection (William Salmon via OE) 3. REMINDER: Today's Conference Call re Standing Rock, Weds, 11/2 (Ellie Stock via OE) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2016 01:16:22 +0000 (UTC) From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Len Hockley <LCHockley@gmail.com>, "laurelcg@aol.com" <laurelcg@aol.com>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. - Dear Susan Message-ID: <1896901192.73383.1478049382295@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" As an outsider, being in the Order/ICA gave me a close-up viewof the US and how its citizens related to it. In all those years, beginningwith Nixon all the way up to Obama, I?ve seen it invade and destroy nationsaround the world, releasing waves of refugees and other miseries. Butwithin? the US, people lived in a cocoon thathelped them avert their eyes. I remember the Vietnam war protesters and the manyyoung people who fled the US in order not to be driven to kill ?gooks?overseas. I noticed that at best, we were silent on this and at worst,disapproving. When I look back, I see that the protesters were the ?sensitiveand responsive? part that Niebuhr wrote about. I also noticed the hunger amongus to cite links to famous figures while pointing out that to live in the ?nolonger and the not-yet? was to be ?nobodies?.?Perhaps this was the effect of consuming the stories meant for ourframing and fund-raising strategies. I see that same hunger now reflected in recalling somedistant crossing of trails with Hillary Clinton. Americans have been set up bythe political elite to adopt positions around two equally ugly candidates putbefore them for the exercise of their ?democratic rights?. For all the emotionsthe Republican-Democrat tension evokes in our emails, election after election, thatrivalry is a sham. This is a nation ruled by a ?single party with two factions?.Whichever you praise or denigrate, the real owners of the land always win. Andfor the rest of us around the world, we can only wait for the light from this ?beaconon the hill? to eventually fade. Then, perhaps, the US will ?take its place as an ordinary member in thecommunity of nations. Dharma On Wednesday, 2 November 2016, 7:33, Len Hockley via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Dido Jon,? The Naked Now by Richard Rohr is required reading! Len Hockley On 11/1/2016 2:58 PM, via OE wrote: Love this, Jon. Thanks. Jann -----Original Message----- From: jonzondo@juno.com via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: isobeljimbish <isobeljimbish@optusnet.com.au>; oe <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: oe <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Tue, Nov 1, 2016 1:37 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. - Dear Susan Dear Group. Jon Elizondo here. ?Son of Tony and Ellery. Long time "Order kid" and short time Order adult. This conversation is very important, especially with all the perspectives. I will try to hone in now on one of my key points. The change needed in the system is huge. ?Our current system is incredible broken in so many ways. ?We are a first world country "purposefully" going backwards by not investing in our infrastructure nor in our people. ? In my observation and opinion, much of the national frustration shows itself in the desire to elect Trump, or Bernie, or any alternative. ?The "Cry" for change is massive, and will not let up. ? ? One of the traps is either/or thinking. ? one of the ways forward is both/and/plus-more thinking. ? One of the traps is "personal attacks". ? one of the ways forward is "come join us at the table". ? What I know in my bones is that we are all connected. ?That mysterious truth, combined with my passion & respect, is my key to intentionally moving forward. ? Walk in Beauty, Jon ? ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Isobel Bishop via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Wilson Priscilla H <pris@teamtechpress.com>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Clinton's relationship to E.I. - Dear Susan Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2016 07:23:32 +1100 Thankyou for this conversation,?colleagues. I appreciate the? Honesty, pain and fear expressed in depth,to give us outsiders some real hope. Thankyou all. In peace and love, Isobel? Sent from my iPhone On 2 Nov 2016, at 7:02 am, Wilson Priscilla H via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: No one has said that better, Randy. You should put that on Facebook?so we can all copy your words. Priscilla Wilson On Nov 1, 2016, at 2:35 PM, Joyce Sloan via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Well said, Randy!! On Nov 1, 2016 2:20 PM, "Randy Williams via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: I keep asking, but still have not seen, one shred of verifiable evidence to substantiate the charge that Hillary has committed a criminal act of any sort. She's made serious mistakes like with the private server, she has not been as transparent as she could and perhaps should have been, she got paid a lot of money for some speeches (but less than some men), she's flip-flopped on some positions she's taken like on TPP, she has a super-healthy ego (an asset for a man but a huge liability for a woman in our culture), she didn't play nice when she was First Lady trying to get health care passed, as Secretary of State she traveled the world and spoke truth to power like the Premier of China, and after much gut-wrenching deliberation and prayer she chose to stay true to her vow to her husband of "for better or worse" through "worse." And to add insult to injury, she decided to run to be the first woman in the Office of President of the United States. How dare she. Despise h er for all those things and hate all her positions on the issues, but don't accuse her of being a criminal unless you have some rock solid proof that hours and years and millions of dollars worth of hearings, investigations and witch hunts by scores of government agencies, news media and nondescript malcontents have been unable to produce. I've heard the rumors, innuendos, exaggerations, conjecture, gross distortions and outright lies, everything but verifiable truth. Got any? Then let's have it. But double check your sources before you put it out there because there really are some malingering, deplorable liars afoot in the land and a lot of fools are believing them and then repeating what they heard them say and calling it truth, and it just isn't.? Randy Sent from my iPad On Nov 1, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Susan Fertig via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Trump was never my choice, and Hillary is a criminal--her vision for the country is my first nightmare. And Trump is just as flawed. Both of them scare me to death. But neither if the other candidates is really an option either. I fear we're about to see this great American experiment in democracy become something no less evil than the many kleptocracies around the world. ? Susan ? Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid On Nov 1, 2016 11:55 AM, Judi White <sophiacircle@gmail.com> wrote: Well,? what you wrote is what Frumper repeats over and over. Mist who parrot him do support him. I Personally prefer to read responses to a candidates vision for this nation. Also I stand firm in ny admiration which? never ceases, of this woman who has continued in spite of the unbelievable accusations which are so blown up out of the real world of truth and honesty that it is cause for seriously asking "Why?". Why the hell bent mission to destroy a solid vision for this nation and this planet? There is no other candidate who shines so brightly and qualified to be an example for our children and grandchildren at this time.? Rightly so. On Nov 1, 2016 12:20 PM, "Susan Fertig via OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: How in the world did you infer that I must be a Trump supporter from my message? ? Susan ? Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid On Nov 1, 2016 7:56 AM, Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942@gmail.com> wrote: ? ? Dear Susan, ? Writing to you as a Canadian Christian and 16-year Order member, I am awed by your commitment to American Republicanism and conservative Christianity. How in the world did you spend so much time with the EI/OE/ICA community and have your world view remain unaffected? ? From the perspective of Canada, we are 87% supporters of HRC and the image of America she represents.? Probably Russia is 87% in favour of Donald. ? Each and every ?crime? that I have read about that is attributed to Hillary has been most grandly committed by Republicans in previous Bushadministrations. ? Surely you would agree that Donald Trump is an out and out racist, sexist, homophobe, parochial narcissist and most of all a climate change denier? HRC is none of the above. Thankfully, she is responsive to both Bernie and to Elizabeth. We may get out of this mess yet.? ? Your phrase: "only values I see are? abject greed, a pathological allegiance to lies, and arrogant flaunting of her ability to circumvent the law. She has done absolutely nothing to improve the lives of the poor and disadvantaged yet claims she has in the face of all evidence to the contrary.? is really the truth that the world sees about Trump. ? I would invite you to see all that as a projection. ? Should Trump take ownership of any of the above, that would be a fine moment of grace. Would you not agree? ? Margaret Atwood, (a?Canadian poet, novelist, literary critic, essayist, and environmental activist) describes America in the midst of a Salem type?witch hunt. I agree. It is, at the bottom a war against women. ? While there are indeed my contradictions in American society that both the Republican and Democratic administrations must answer for, the attached article came closest - for me - in describing how the Republican voice has committed itself to an ?end game? and it would seem that indeed, the GOP will ?end?. ? Love and best wishes to you, Sus an and to all Trump supporters who have been left without any vision other than rebellion or depression.? ? We are all responsible. Everyone. ? Ken in Canada. ? A Republican intellectual explains why the Republican Party is going to die http://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/1 2256510/republican-party-trump -avik-roy ? ? ? ? ? ? ? On Nov 1, 2016, at 12:03 AM, Susan Fertig via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Values??? The only values I see are? abject greed, a pathological allegiance to lies, and arrogant flaunting of her ability to circumvent the law. She has done absolutely nothing to improve the lives of the poor and disadvantaged yet claims she has in the face of all evidence to the contrary. I've heard for years about this possible connection to EI/ICA, and I truly hope it's not true. It would be a horrible embarrassment to the movement. ? Susan ? Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Droid On Oct 31, 2016 11:22 PM, William Salmon via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Colleagues-- ??? So many raise the question concerning Hillary Clinton's relationship to E.I. I decided to cast this bread upon the waters. The first sign is that while I addressed it to Hillary Clinton, an alternate address popped up. Consequently, it may really get to her attention, to that of some aid. May it be a Kool-Aid. ??? Inner Peace, ??? Bill ? Mrs. Hillary Clinton: ??? It is my prayer that this reaches you concerning your experience in 5th City, Chicago, or it could have been in Evanston. Your Youth Director, Don Jones, must have been at a training event to become known as RS-I. About the same time, a large number of us dedicated ourselves to this renewal movement that grew from our experience in Chicago Ghetto to literally embrace the world. ??? It makes me wonder if your experience under his leadership influenced the values you hold dear, and now?wish to step onto the platform of the Presidency to do for our United States and for the world what was embraced by the courageous citizens in 5th City. ??? You carry my prayers during this last turbulent week. You have my vote. ??? Grace and Peace, ??? Pastor William E. Salmon ??? 744 So. 10th ??? 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