seems to me forgiveness heals the transgressed in their offering of forgiveness. reconciliation is another matter. I cannot bequeath redemption - forgiveness yes. acceptance - yes. - the transgressors earthly redemption and reconciliation is contingent on reparation. On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 12:39 PM, via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

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Today's Topics:

1. VP #73 The Question of Forgiveness (Rod Rippel via OE)

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Message: 1 Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2015 08:06:15 -0700 From: Rod Rippel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: "Betty Skinner" <bettyskinner34@gmail.com>, "Betty Turner" <btturner4@aol.com>, "Bill Schaffer" <bcschaffer@sbcglobal.net>, "Bob Lang" <bob34lang@verizon.net>, <Cmae36@aol.com>, "Connie Canter" <washoe@allglobal.net>, "Dick Wilt" <dwilted@sbcglobal.net>, "Dolores Lowry" <D107c@aol.com>, "Don Schaffer" <dondonna@sbcglobal.net>, "Gene Dennis" <geno65270@yahoo.com>, "Herb Lawrence" <herb.lawrence@att.net>, "Jack Stewart" < stewart538@gmail.com>, "Jeff Rippel" <jarip45@verizon.net>, "Martha Burton Hall" <mobmom@sbcglobal.net>, "Maurice Frazier" < doefrazier@sbcglobal.net>, <ZOURAH4@aol.com> Cc: Marion Muma <marionmuma@gmail.com>, Linda Orr <lorr56@comcast.net>, Jeff Rippel <jarip45@verizon.net>, Sarah Beth Rippel <fitprosarah@gmail.com>, John Fistere < johnfistere@gmail.com>, Curtiss Rippel <ripson2@prodigy.net>, Linda Armacost <larmacost@cox.net>, Clifford Rippel <crippel@mac.com>, Victoria Freiheit <qvfreiheit@sbcglobal.net>, Dolores Lowry < D107c@aol.com>, Andrew Rippel <rippeldrew@yahoo.com>, Pauline Rippel <peacepwr@cox.net>, MW Sattva <morgsat@gmail.com>, Cmae36@aol.com, staley pitts <staley.pitts@gmail.com>, Michael Dorfi < mdorfi@cox.net>, Steve Rippel <rippone@q.com>, Dorcas and Bob Holtsmith <holtsmith@sbcglobal.net> Subject: [Oe List ...] VP #73 The Question of Forgiveness Message-ID: <1B140105C15E4FBCA39FFA69619B9BF0@RodHP> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

The question of forgiveness is raised by the events of the shooting of 9 people in a Bible class at Emmanuel AME Church in Charleston, SC.

Is forgiveness contingent or unconditional? Are we to forgive seven times over (or 70X7) and then what? Is forgiveness contingent on repentance? or on Metanoia? Is it contingent on the perpetrator asking for forgiveness, giving an explanation, reasons, justifications, circumstances, rationalizations, mitigating considerations...Or?. Or does he have to say, "Metanoo," "I have had a change of heart." "My heart has been made over." No mention of the deed itself? No act of repenting? No apology even? No defense? Only say Metanoo, I have been transformed? Or is even that needed to wipe out the deed? To make it 'As if, as if, it never happened at all? Is the event of the deed wiped out by the event a change of heart? And if there is no change of heart? Are we still to forgive? To forget as if...

Recently, for my wife's birthday I gave my her a small package wrapped in plain paper. On the wrapping I had written: "Forgiveness Implementer - with Practical Applicator with instructions on the label." Of course it was a 'gag gift,' a sock-filler among other such gifts for her to open. The item in question was a small bottle of White Out, an item well used in the days of typewriters to blot out errors. The instructions on the bottle were: COVER IT. Blot it out as if you never made the typo. Forget about it and make the correction as if it never happened. Can the past transgression of so heinous

a deed be forgotten? Is the forgiveness enhanced by the memory and depth of the injury? If so who is the benefactor of forgiveness, the perpetrator or the victim?

What happens when a perpetrator doesn't repent and shows no sign of a 'change of heart?'

I wonder if the case can be made that forgiveness, that forgiving, is unconditional. Maybe that's what Jesus of Nazareth was really all about.