sometimes the question comes to me in this voice... Can the ego/religious church die so that the inclusive, spiritual church may be born? for myself, within the context of my own life, I already know the answer. it is YES, because that is what I'm Living. Jon Mark Elizondo ---------- Original Message ---------- From: "William Salmon" <wsalmon@cox.net> To: "Order Ecumenical Community" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: [Oe List ...] Salmon: Can the church change? Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 10:27:04 -0500 Can the institutional church change? My quick answer is "Yes," the church can change direction immediately! It happens at those times in history that reveals a new paradigm: we believe we live in a World of Squares only to discover there is a World of Rounds. We are living in such times in the death of the Modern Scientific Worldview and the rise of the Postmodern Intuitive Worldview. (Review the Social Process Triangles!) In fact, the change already has occurred within the United Methodist Church; it is now being practiced under the leadership of those born after 1985, and among a few people--like those in the Order--who are the old Awakened Squares who have lived on the point between the No Longer and the Not Yet. All the others will need to die off! No hurry, though. Yes, many of us are getting Rounder but less Square. OK? Such is my life. However, it is exciting to live during the Great (GREAT) Turn. At least it can't be said that at this Great Turn the Awakened are shoveling shit in Louisiana. No, it is in Kansas where we shovel the shit of a dead metaphor under the leadership of the Great Asshole himself--Gov. BROWNback. Go figure. (Sorry? Not really!) Pastor Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: R Williams To: Colleague Dialogue ; oe@lists.wedgeblade.net Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 9:52 PMSubject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Hmm, the Methodists weigh in,sounds like the "council of a lifetime" In the midst of the turmoil the church is going through this is one of the most hopeful pieces I've seen. The primary question for me is, can a church that has been so embedded in institutional structures for so long realistically be expected to reverse course and again become a movemental presence? Randy "Listen to what is emerging from yourself to the course of being in the world; not to be supported by it, but to bring it to reality as it desires." -Martin Buber (adapted) From: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> To: "oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 9:42 PM Subject: [Dialogue] Hmm, the Methodists weigh in, sounds like the "council of a lifetime" http://www.unitedmethodistreporter.com/2012/06/new-england-conference-delega... Jim Wiegel If you hear a voice within you say 'you cannot paint,' then by all means paint, and that voice will be silenced. Vincent Van Gogh 401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353-2401 +1 623-363-3277 skype: jfredwiegel jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com Upcoming public course opportunities: ToP Facilitation Methods, Sept 11-12, 2012 ToP Strategic Planning, Oct 9-10, 2012 The AZ Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday- Sept 7, 2012 Facilitation Mastery : Our Mastering the Technology of Participation program is available in Phoenix in 2012-3. Program begins on Nov 14-16, 2012 See short video http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=55 and website for further details. --- On Mon, 6/11/12, Timothy Wegner <twegner@swbell.net> wrote: From: Timothy Wegner <twegner@swbell.net> Subject: [Dialogue] wedgeblade.net is back up. To: "oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>, "dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net" <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Date: Monday, June 11, 2012, 10:24 AM Wedgeblade.net has actually been up since yesterday, but I just received a message from our host that their backup restore is complete. All is good. In fact, all is good even when the website is down! Tim----------Sent from AT&T's Wireless network using Mobile Email_______________________________________________Dialogue mailing listDialogue@lists.wedgeblade.nethttp://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net____________... mailing listDialogue@lists.wedgeblade.nethttp://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2180 / Virus Database: 2433/5063 - Release Date: 06/11/12 ____________________________________________________________ Book Cheap Hotels Online Save Up To -70% on Hotels. Worldwide Hotel Reservations Online http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4fd76157897222c6f09st03vuc