Fwd: Re: THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Zoe Barley <zbarley@earthlink.net> Date: 2016/10/03 12:41 PM (GMT-07:00) To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Cc: zbarley@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT <!-- DIV {margin:0px;} -->Yes, I suspect we are all still at it - according to age, ability, and conditions. And such work must go on, even when it is ephemeral. But I'm concerned about Spong's challenge. He would yet attempt to renew the church. We began the work in the Order of imagining - and practicing - a wholly new liturgy. Is that where to begin? This is not exciting or immediately rewarding work - if ever - and it is not transformational in the first instance. I do not know who or what group is able to respond. Perhaps the Order is too vested in the community work to now turn back to the church. But I can't see that any such work can be sustained without the Word in some form. Zoe -----Original Message----- From: James Wiegel Sent: Oct 3, 2016 9:03 AM To: zbarley Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT How does the beginning of Ecclesiastes go? Emptiness Emptiness says the speaker, emptiness, all is empty. What does man gain from his labor?? And, even that "internal strength and depth of belief to create the renewed dynamic in society" seemed to slip away . . . Bill and Carol Schlessinger are still at it with Projecto Vida in El Paso . . . Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353623-363-3277jfwiegel@yahoo.comwww.partnersinparticipation.com Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona More info on: ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation Register on line / see the ToP National ScheduleAICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003 From: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net> To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Cc: "zbarley@earthlink.net" <zbarley@earthlink.net> Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 6:29 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT We were certainly aware, first as priors in Cleveland, then as Galaxy pastors in Denver, that the church renewal plan wasn't working. And with Spong it's no sure thing, despite the ages of existence, that the church wants, realizes the urgency of, renewal today. Yet I have seen the community renewal projects I have worked on all run their course and fade away. The Order had the internal strength and depth of belief to create the renewed dynamic in society that was once called church. I know of no other entity who can do it. Zoe Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Date: 2016/10/02 9:40 PM (GMT-07:00) To: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Well, that is a good and interesting question, Zoe. And probably many people might have answers . . Here are a couple possible ones that come to my mind. The Fifth City Project and, later human development projects and town meetings had a lot more visceral excitement for us than the slow work of congregational renewal. This might have been more particularly true for us younger, non clergy folks who came right after you all . . . The Local Church Experiment with Galaxies and all did not produce exciting enough results to be sustained, and we never got sufficiently strong and widespread support from the denominational heirarchies to keep it going. It may well also have been the case that the "risks" that the Galaxy leadership and clergy families in the order and movement sort of derailed their career prospects in Ecclesiastical circles. God chose fundamentalism and the charismatic approach over existential theology. I was struck, travelling cross country several years ago, on 2 lane highways, that it seems as though only the conservative churches have had heart and passion to root themselves in many local places. Music and broadcast christianity as well. With our focus on "globality", staying within the framework of Historical Christianity became increasingly relative as we engaged in countries not dominantly Christian In looking at old documents, like the Declaration of the Spirit Movement, I can see one could say that the primary concern was to address the "cultural revolution of the 20th century", ("renewal of the church FOR THE SAKE OF THE WORLD") Even the contextual documents on the local church describe it as an anthropological phenomenon and not a Christian reality From a practical (and economic) perspective, at some point, participation in RS-1 peaked and we needed something else to keep the "movement" moving. While we talked of ourselves as an "Order" -- Religious Order, Historical Order, Global Order, seems we depended a lot on keeping momentum going. Sustainability and slowness were less important than Expenditure and transformation. What is your take on it?Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353623-363-3277jfwiegel@yahoo.comwww.partnersinparticipation.com Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona More info on: ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation Register on line / see the ToP National ScheduleAICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003 From: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net> To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com>; Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2016 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT
Zoe said: "We began the work in the Order of imagining - and practicing - a wholly new liturgy. Is that where to begin? This is not exciting or immediately rewarding work - if ever - and it is not transformational in the first instance." Wow, do you recall that? When I arrived in 1967 things seemed in place re: Daily Office. We performed a Daily Office at the memorial for Betty Pesek -- perhaps the last one?? Chardin wrote a piece called "The Mass on the World" that caught MY attention. Not sure if attachments go through . . . What would it be like to do this? Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353623-363-3277jfwiegel@yahoo.comwww.partnersinparticipation.com Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona More info on: ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation Register on line / see the ToP National ScheduleAICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003 From: zbarley via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2016 9:19 AM Subject: [Oe List ...] Fwd: Re: THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Zoe Barley <zbarley@earthlink.net> Date: 2016/10/03 12:41 PM (GMT-07:00) To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Cc: zbarley@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT <!--#yiv5222209950 DIV {margin:0px;}-->Yes, I suspect we are all still at it - according to age, ability, and conditions. And such work must go on, even when it is ephemeral. But I'm concerned about Spong's challenge. He would yet attempt to renew the church. We began the work in the Order of imagining - and practicing - a wholly new liturgy. Is that where to begin? This is not exciting or immediately rewarding work - if ever - and it is not transformational in the first instance. I do not know who or what group is able to respond. Perhaps the Order is too vested in the community work to now turn back to the church. But I can't see that any such work can be sustained without the Word in some form. Zoe -----Original Message----- From: James Wiegel Sent: Oct 3, 2016 9:03 AM To: zbarley Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT How does the beginning of Ecclesiastes go? Emptiness Emptiness says the speaker, emptiness, all is empty. What does man gain from his labor?? And, even that "internal strength and depth of belief to create the renewed dynamic in society" seemed to slip away . . . Bill and Carol Schlessinger are still at it with Projecto Vida in El Paso . . . Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353623-363-3277jfwiegel@yahoo.comwww.partnersinparticipation.com Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona More info on: ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation Register on line / see the ToP National ScheduleAICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003 From: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net> To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Cc: "zbarley@earthlink.net" <zbarley@earthlink.net> Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 6:29 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT We were certainly aware, first as priors in Cleveland, then as Galaxy pastors in Denver, that the church renewal plan wasn't working. And with Spong it's no sure thing, despite the ages of existence, that the church wants, realizes the urgency of, renewal today. Yet I have seen the community renewal projects I have worked on all run their course and fade away. The Order had the internal strength and depth of belief to create the renewed dynamic in society that was once called church. I know of no other entity who can do it. Zoe Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Date: 2016/10/02 9:40 PM (GMT-07:00) To: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Well, that is a good and interesting question, Zoe. And probably many people might have answers . . Here are a couple possible ones that come to my mind. The Fifth City Project and, later human development projects and town meetings had a lot more visceral excitement for us than the slow work of congregational renewal. This might have been more particularly true for us younger, non clergy folks who came right after you all . . . The Local Church Experiment with Galaxies and all did not produce exciting enough results to be sustained, and we never got sufficiently strong and widespread support from the denominational heirarchies to keep it going. It may well also have been the case that the "risks" that the Galaxy leadership and clergy families in the order and movement sort of derailed their career prospects in Ecclesiastical circles. God chose fundamentalism and the charismatic approach over existential theology. I was struck, travelling cross country several years ago, on 2 lane highways, that it seems as though only the conservative churches have had heart and passion to root themselves in many local places. Music and broadcast christianity as well. With our focus on "globality", staying within the framework of Historical Christianity became increasingly relative as we engaged in countries not dominantly Christian In looking at old documents, like the Declaration of the Spirit Movement, I can see one could say that the primary concern was to address the "cultural revolution of the 20th century", ("renewal of the church FOR THE SAKE OF THE WORLD") Even the contextual documents on the local church describe it as an anthropological phenomenon and not a Christian reality
From a practical (and economic) perspective, at some point, participation in RS-1 peaked and we needed something else to keep the "movement" moving. While we talked of ourselves as an "Order" -- Religious Order, Historical Order, Global Order, seems we depended a lot on keeping momentum going. Sustainability and slowness were less important than Expenditure and transformation. What is your take on it?Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353623-363-3277jfwiegel@yahoo.comwww.partnersinparticipation.com Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona More info on: ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation Register on line / see the ToP National ScheduleAICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003
From: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net> To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com>; Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2016 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Teilhard still speaks to a broad audience. A documentary is currently being produced about his life and work and continuing influence (see below). It will be shown on PBS in 2017, if not before. Teilhard Project www.teilhardproject.com Continue reading “Teilhard Documentary Leaps Forward” » Teilhard Project to film in Teilhard’s birthplace. Posted on July 7, 2016 by frostffp. How to Donate Obituary of Harold Morowitz Resources Blog Scholars Many congregations are using resources, built on the foundation of his work, that are weaving together the cosmic perspective, scientific realities and theological grounding that probably go beyond Spong. Groups come alive when they experience this--sometimes a church group, sometimes other groups, once in a while a congregation. . In many respects, "renewal" is happening in churches that have strong conscious leadership that is shepherding congregations into their local communities and larger world (like the LCX). There are other groups which are the church dynamic, operating from a transparent WORD, that are bringing resurgence in other ways. Carleton and I were part of the Rochester LCX for 6 years until we went into the Order. When we returned to the local church as pastors, we didn't pull out the LCX Manual, but it was transparently and intentionally present as were the dynamics of contextual re-education, structural reformulation and spiritual re-motivation. Post-"retirement", we continue to be part of a congregation (not as pastors), that seeks to be on the edge re partnering with others to serve the larger world so that the Earth Community and all the diversity and complexity that inhabit it, might thrive cooperatively and sustainably. Ellie elliestock@aol.com -----Original Message----- From: James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net>; oe <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@wedgeblade.net> Sent: Tue, Oct 4, 2016 2:48 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Fwd: Re: THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Zoe said: "We began the work in the Order of imagining - and practicing - a wholly new liturgy. Is that where to begin? This is not exciting or immediately rewarding work - if ever - and it is not transformational in the first instance." Wow, do you recall that? When I arrived in 1967 things seemed in place re: Daily Office. We performed a Daily Office at the memorial for Betty Pesek -- perhaps the last one?? Chardin wrote a piece called "The Mass on the World" that caught MY attention. Not sure if attachments go through . . . What would it be like to do this? Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona More info on: ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003 From: zbarley via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2016 9:19 AM Subject: [Oe List ...] Fwd: Re: THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Zoe Barley <zbarley@earthlink.net> Date: 2016/10/03 12:41 PM (GMT-07:00) To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Cc: zbarley@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Yes, I suspect we are all still at it - according to age, ability, and conditions. And such work must go on, even when it is ephemeral. But I'm concerned about Spong's challenge. He would yet attempt to renew the church. We began the work in the Order of imagining - and practicing - a wholly new liturgy. Is that where to begin? This is not exciting or immediately rewarding work - if ever - and it is not transformational in the first instance. I do not know who or what group is able to respond. Perhaps the Order is too vested in the community work to now turn back to the church. But I can't see that any such work can be sustained without the Word in some form. Zoe -----Original Message----- From: James Wiegel Sent: Oct 3, 2016 9:03 AM To: zbarley Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT How does the beginning of Ecclesiastes go? Emptiness Emptiness says the speaker, emptiness, all is empty. What does man gain from his labor?? And, even that "internal strength and depth of belief to create the renewed dynamic in society" seemed to slip away . . . Bill and Carol Schlessinger are still at it with Projecto Vida in El Paso . . . Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona More info on: ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003 From: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net> To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Cc: "zbarley@earthlink.net" <zbarley@earthlink.net> Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 6:29 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT We were certainly aware, first as priors in Cleveland, then as Galaxy pastors in Denver, that the church renewal plan wasn't working. And with Spong it's no sure thing, despite the ages of existence, that the church wants, realizes the urgency of, renewal today. Yet I have seen the community renewal projects I have worked on all run their course and fade away. The Order had the internal strength and depth of belief to create the renewed dynamic in society that was once called church. I know of no other entity who can do it. Zoe Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Date: 2016/10/02 9:40 PM (GMT-07:00) To: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Well, that is a good and interesting question, Zoe. And probably many people might have answers . . Here are a couple possible ones that come to my mind. The Fifth City Project and, later human development projects and town meetings had a lot more visceral excitement for us than the slow work of congregational renewal. This might have been more particularly true for us younger, non clergy folks who came right after you all . . . The Local Church Experiment with Galaxies and all did not produce exciting enough results to be sustained, and we never got sufficiently strong and widespread support from the denominational heirarchies to keep it going. It may well also have been the case that the "risks" that the Galaxy leadership and clergy families in the order and movement sort of derailed their career prospects in Ecclesiastical circles. God chose fundamentalism and the charismatic approach over existential theology. I was struck, travelling cross country several years ago, on 2 lane highways, that it seems as though only the conservative churches have had heart and passion to root themselves in many local places. Music and broadcast christianity as well. With our focus on "globality", staying within the framework of Historical Christianity became increasingly relative as we engaged in countries not dominantly Christian In looking at old documents, like the Declaration of the Spirit Movement, I can see one could say that the primary concern was to address the "cultural revolution of the 20th century", ("renewal of the church FOR THE SAKE OF THE WORLD") Even the contextual documents on the local church describe it as an anthropological phenomenon and not a Christian reality
From a practical (and economic) perspective, at some point, participation in RS-1 peaked and we needed something else to keep the "movement" moving. While we talked of ourselves as an "Order" -- Religious Order, Historical Order, Global Order, seems we depended a lot on keeping momentum going. Sustainability and slowness were less important than Expenditure and transformation.
What is your take on it? Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona More info on: ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003 From: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net> To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com>; Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2016 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Dear Jim and Colleagues, I thank whoever put Betty's memorial on you tube. I participated as I watched it. Very sweet and poignant. Teilhard's "Mass on the World" is interesting. (I was able to download it.) The book is called The Heart of Matter but the mass only mentions Fire. We need Earth, Air and Water. Not just Spirit, but Body, Mind and Emotions. Surely we can write a 21st century liturgy that honors the past and acknowledges where we are. It could even be "exciting, immediately rewarding and even transformational." Good News! All is Good! Good News! All is Received! Good News! All is Approved! All is Possible! Love and blessings, Jann McGuire -----Original Message----- From: James Wiegel via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net>; oe <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@wedgeblade.net> Sent: Tue, Oct 4, 2016 12:54 pm Subject: Re: [Dialogue] [Oe List ...] Fwd: Re: THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Zoe said: "We began the work in the Order of imagining - and practicing - a wholly new liturgy. Is that where to begin? This is not exciting or immediately rewarding work - if ever - and it is not transformational in the first instance." Wow, do you recall that? When I arrived in 1967 things seemed in place re: Daily Office. We performed a Daily Office at the memorial for Betty Pesek -- perhaps the last one?? Chardin wrote a piece called "The Mass on the World" that caught MY attention. Not sure if attachments go through . . . What would it be like to do this? Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona More info on: ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003 From: zbarley via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2016 9:19 AM Subject: [Oe List ...] Fwd: Re: THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Zoe Barley <zbarley@earthlink.net> Date: 2016/10/03 12:41 PM (GMT-07:00) To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Cc: zbarley@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Yes, I suspect we are all still at it - according to age, ability, and conditions. And such work must go on, even when it is ephemeral. But I'm concerned about Spong's challenge. He would yet attempt to renew the church. We began the work in the Order of imagining - and practicing - a wholly new liturgy. Is that where to begin? This is not exciting or immediately rewarding work - if ever - and it is not transformational in the first instance. I do not know who or what group is able to respond. Perhaps the Order is too vested in the community work to now turn back to the church. But I can't see that any such work can be sustained without the Word in some form. Zoe -----Original Message----- From: James Wiegel Sent: Oct 3, 2016 9:03 AM To: zbarley Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT How does the beginning of Ecclesiastes go? Emptiness Emptiness says the speaker, emptiness, all is empty. What does man gain from his labor?? And, even that "internal strength and depth of belief to create the renewed dynamic in society" seemed to slip away . . . Bill and Carol Schlessinger are still at it with Projecto Vida in El Paso . . . Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona More info on: ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003 From: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net> To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Cc: "zbarley@earthlink.net" <zbarley@earthlink.net> Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 6:29 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT We were certainly aware, first as priors in Cleveland, then as Galaxy pastors in Denver, that the church renewal plan wasn't working. And with Spong it's no sure thing, despite the ages of existence, that the church wants, realizes the urgency of, renewal today. Yet I have seen the community renewal projects I have worked on all run their course and fade away. The Order had the internal strength and depth of belief to create the renewed dynamic in society that was once called church. I know of no other entity who can do it. Zoe Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Date: 2016/10/02 9:40 PM (GMT-07:00) To: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Well, that is a good and interesting question, Zoe. And probably many people might have answers . . Here are a couple possible ones that come to my mind. The Fifth City Project and, later human development projects and town meetings had a lot more visceral excitement for us than the slow work of congregational renewal. This might have been more particularly true for us younger, non clergy folks who came right after you all . . . The Local Church Experiment with Galaxies and all did not produce exciting enough results to be sustained, and we never got sufficiently strong and widespread support from the denominational heirarchies to keep it going. It may well also have been the case that the "risks" that the Galaxy leadership and clergy families in the order and movement sort of derailed their career prospects in Ecclesiastical circles. God chose fundamentalism and the charismatic approach over existential theology. I was struck, travelling cross country several years ago, on 2 lane highways, that it seems as though only the conservative churches have had heart and passion to root themselves in many local places. Music and broadcast christianity as well. With our focus on "globality", staying within the framework of Historical Christianity became increasingly relative as we engaged in countries not dominantly Christian In looking at old documents, like the Declaration of the Spirit Movement, I can see one could say that the primary concern was to address the "cultural revolution of the 20th century", ("renewal of the church FOR THE SAKE OF THE WORLD") Even the contextual documents on the local church describe it as an anthropological phenomenon and not a Christian reality
From a practical (and economic) perspective, at some point, participation in RS-1 peaked and we needed something else to keep the "movement" moving. While we talked of ourselves as an "Order" -- Religious Order, Historical Order, Global Order, seems we depended a lot on keeping momentum going. Sustainability and slowness were less important than Expenditure and transformation.
What is your take on it? Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona More info on: ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003 From: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net> To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com>; Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2016 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
Most of us in our community came out of the church, either clergy or laity. I expect we sensed the church had a captivating story and symbols that were powerful enough to put wheels under it. We also knew of a time in the history of the church when it had a significant external mission, primarily through the orders. We sensed the spirit moving in some new direction with all the 1960s revolutions. Maybe we thought that would be enough to instill again a sense of mission within the historical church. But in my judgment it didn't happen, and perhaps as a way of steeling itself against the changes being wrought by the revolutions of the time toward secularism, rather than participating in them, the church doubled down on institutionalism, and that persists to this day, with noteworthy but isolated exceptions. I'm not sure human intentionality can start movements; they just seem to spring up and emerge when the spirit moves, and the role of intentional, missional human beings is keep their ears to the ground and, as Buber would say, when they see it, go participate in what is wanting to emerge. It could be that the spirit is moving anew today through the environmental movement, perhaps as Paul Hawken describes it in Blessed Unrest. For me, I have no attachment to today's institutional forms of the church, although I am grateful for the work and witness of Pope Francis and his integral ecology, and for some who seem to have inspired him, like Leonardo Boff. There's no reason why religions of any sort could not participate in whatever the emerging movement is, but I don't look for the movement to have a religious identity, or for that matter, any sort of ideological underpinnings. Randy Sent from my iPad
On Oct 4, 2016, at 2:45 PM, James Wiegel via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Zoe said: "We began the work in the Order of imagining - and practicing - a wholly new liturgy. Is that where to begin? This is not exciting or immediately rewarding work - if ever - and it is not transformational in the first instance."
Wow, do you recall that? When I arrived in 1967 things seemed in place re: Daily Office. We performed a Daily Office at the memorial for Betty Pesek -- perhaps the last one??
Chardin wrote a piece called "The Mass on the World" that caught MY attention. Not sure if attachments go through . . .
What would it be like to do this?
Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy
401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com
Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona
More info on:
ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation
Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses
The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003
From: zbarley via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2016 9:19 AM Subject: [Oe List ...] Fwd: Re: THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message -------- From: Zoe Barley <zbarley@earthlink.net> Date: 2016/10/03 12:41 PM (GMT-07:00) To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Cc: zbarley@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT
Yes, I suspect we are all still at it - according to age, ability, and conditions. And such work must go on, even when it is ephemeral.
But I'm concerned about Spong's challenge. He would yet attempt to renew the church. We began the work in the Order of imagining - and practicing - a wholly new liturgy. Is that where to begin? This is not exciting or immediately rewarding work - if ever - and it is not transformational in the first instance. I do not know who or what group is able to respond. Perhaps the Order is too vested in the community work to now turn back to the church. But I can't see that any such work can be sustained without the Word in some form.
Zoe
-----Original Message----- From: James Wiegel Sent: Oct 3, 2016 9:03 AM To: zbarley Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT
How does the beginning of Ecclesiastes go? Emptiness Emptiness says the speaker, emptiness, all is empty. What does man gain from his labor??
And, even that "internal strength and depth of belief to create the renewed dynamic in society" seemed to slip away . . . Bill and Carol Schlessinger are still at it with Projecto Vida in El Paso . . .
Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy
401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com
Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona
More info on:
ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation
Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses
The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003
From: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net> To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Cc: "zbarley@earthlink.net" <zbarley@earthlink.net> Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 6:29 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT
We were certainly aware, first as priors in Cleveland, then as Galaxy pastors in Denver, that the church renewal plan wasn't working. And with Spong it's no sure thing, despite the ages of existence, that the church wants, realizes the urgency of, renewal today. Yet I have seen the community renewal projects I have worked on all run their course and fade away. The Order had the internal strength and depth of belief to create the renewed dynamic in society that was once called church. I know of no other entity who can do it.
Zoe
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message -------- From: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Date: 2016/10/02 9:40 PM (GMT-07:00) To: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT
Well, that is a good and interesting question, Zoe. And probably many people might have answers . .
Here are a couple possible ones that come to my mind.
The Fifth City Project and, later human development projects and town meetings had a lot more visceral excitement for us than the slow work of congregational renewal. This might have been more particularly true for us younger, non clergy folks who came right after you all . . .
The Local Church Experiment with Galaxies and all did not produce exciting enough results to be sustained, and we never got sufficiently strong and widespread support from the denominational heirarchies to keep it going. It may well also have been the case that the "risks" that the Galaxy leadership and clergy families in the order and movement sort of derailed their career prospects in Ecclesiastical circles.
God chose fundamentalism and the charismatic approach over existential theology. I was struck, travelling cross country several years ago, on 2 lane highways, that it seems as though only the conservative churches have had heart and passion to root themselves in many local places. Music and broadcast christianity as well.
With our focus on "globality", staying within the framework of Historical Christianity became increasingly relative as we engaged in countries not dominantly Christian
In looking at old documents, like the Declaration of the Spirit Movement, I can see one could say that the primary concern was to address the "cultural revolution of the 20th century", ("renewal of the church FOR THE SAKE OF THE WORLD")
Even the contextual documents on the local church describe it as an anthropological phenomenon and not a Christian reality
From a practical (and economic) perspective, at some point, participation in RS-1 peaked and we needed something else to keep the "movement" moving. While we talked of ourselves as an "Order" -- Religious Order, Historical Order, Global Order, seems we depended a lot on keeping momentum going. Sustainability and slowness were less important than Expenditure and transformation.
What is your take on it? Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy
401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com
Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona
More info on:
ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation
Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses
The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003
From: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net> To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com>; Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2016 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
<Mass on the World.pdf> _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
So vast conversation....and welcomed notes from far and near. (this is a long email...) Our personal, family and collective commitments to re-articulate and spread the Word as a teaching order through RS-I, the Academy etc. drove us into our community reformulation work with passion and zeal that is still jolting to people who are now hearing our story for the first time. Eunice and I spent 7 years in Indonesia and Malaysia as the transition toward direct community focus was rising and engagement with local churches was fading. The government in KL was reading and censoring our snail copies of the Global Order Report with black markers...so we knew that any high profile church work would set us up to be send out of the country. LENS was on the move and soon the band of 24 Human Development Projects became all consuming. In Kelapa Dua HDP we had Christians and Muslims, Internationals and Indonesians, agnostics and Australians :-) on our staff. For about 4 years we used a secular language morning liturgy and tons of songs to help sustain our staff. It worked, but never felt like a sustainable spirit breakthrough. More powerful were global fast days, spirit conversations and writing of new songs in Indonesian which had great ownership across the village-based teams. For a while we continued to do a common meal on Sundays for the global staff, and usually were open to Muslim staff joining in. Too dangerous...the village leaders were passive, but watching. So gradually our traditional symbol system disappeared from our daily corporate practice. Did we collapse? No, but that was not really the issue. The compassion and care for villages with 50% infant mortality rates called forth our best and we invented incredible depth in social methods, and engagement strategies for communities. We also had taught many International Training Institutes (ITI)s across Asia to "World Churchmen" and Women :-) so we were able entice some mission oriented Indonesian church leaders to join in the work in local Muslim villages. Eunice and I were married in a church in Jakarta with the Daily Office in two languages...and one of the members donated truckloads of bricks for the community center and staff residence that we built in Kelapa Dua. To be fair, we never really closed the loop with local churches and our connections gradually diminished. So, many of us continued to be sustained by the Word - albeit incognito - as we focused on community and then organizational transformation efforts. Fast forward to Western Presbyterian Church in DC 2016. Eunice and I are two moths into a six month contract as facilitators to design and conduct a planning process which aims to inspire a shift from pastor-led to laity-led community - reshaping of ministries and structures through engagement in listening sessions, a planning retreat, congregational 'festivals' one of which is a launching event of newly shaped teams in January. This effort depends more on the traditional vehicles for carrying the Word into the mix, like Sunday worship etc. but the power of the ToP methods adds a powerful push that we had barely touched on in the LCX days 40 years ago. Nothing can quite replace the corporate support of a Galaxy of committed colleagues, so we are exploring links to other churches and community groups to widen the net of engagement and hopefully sustainability. Two last thoughts: 1) The USAID officer in Ujung Pandang, Indo. who was very supportive, once said…”you guys are doing important work in the villages, but I doubt if you can replicate yourselves, walk away and have the effort be sustained.” He was basically right, and the deep issue at that time was the source of the sustaining power of the Word in the lives of new people who joined the journey in the post-church renewal years. 2) Now, we long-timers are gradually planning our retirements and funerals and we are mentoring young people who have come to us via ToP courses and consulting / facilitation services. Some have strong faith roots, others more social concern, and some are seeking a career path. The revolving door is alive and well…both encouraging and discouraging as people come and then move on. Mysteriously we are sustained in being! Perhaps we underestimate the long-term reverberations of our work. Perhaps not. The Mystery will write our final stories. Thanks for getting this far down the email J . Best regards to you Zoe and Ken Barley, let’s get together sometime soon. Grace and Peace, Sherwood and Eunice OE" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2016 10:19:34 AM Subject: [Oe List ...] Fwd: Re: THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Zoe Barley <zbarley@earthlink.net> Date: 2016/10/03 12:41 PM (GMT-07:00) To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Cc: zbarley@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Yes, I suspect we are all still at it - according to age, ability, and conditions. And such work must go on, even when it is ephemeral. But I'm concerned about Spong's challenge. He would yet attempt to renew the church. We began the work in the Order of imagining - and practicing - a wholly new liturgy. Is that where to begin? This is not exciting or immediately rewarding work - if ever - and it is not transformational in the first instance. I do not know who or what group is able to respond. Perhaps the Order is too vested in the community work to now turn back to the church. But I can't see that any such work can be sustained without the Word in some form. Zoe -----Original Message----- From: James Wiegel Sent: Oct 3, 2016 9:03 AM To: zbarley Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT How does the beginning of Ecclesiastes go? Emptiness Emptiness says the speaker, emptiness, all is empty. What does man gain from his labor?? And, even that " internal strength and depth of belief to create the renewed dynamic in society" seemed to slip away . . . Bill and Carol Schlessinger are still at it with Projecto Vida in El Paso . . . Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona More info on: ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning : Mastering the Technology of Participation Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003 From: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net> To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Cc: "zbarley@earthlink.net" <zbarley@earthlink.net> Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 6:29 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT We were certainly aware, first as priors in Cleveland, then as Galaxy pastors in Denver, that the church renewal plan wasn't working. And with Spong it's no sure thing, despite the ages of existence, that the church wants, realizes the urgency of, renewal today. Yet I have seen the community renewal projects I have worked on all run their course and fade away. The Order had the internal strength and depth of belief to create the renewed dynamic in society that was once called church. I know of no other entity who can do it. Zoe Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Date: 2016/10/02 9:40 PM (GMT-07:00) To: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Well, that is a good and interesting question, Zoe. And probably many people might have answers . . Here are a couple possible ones that come to my mind. The Fifth City Project and, later human development projects and town meetings had a lot more visceral excitement for us than the slow work of congregational renewal. This might have been more particularly true for us younger, non clergy folks who came right after you all . . . The Local Church Experiment with Galaxies and all did not produce exciting enough results to be sustained, and we never got sufficiently strong and widespread support from the denominational heirarchies to keep it going. It may well also have been the case that the "risks" that the Galaxy leadership and clergy families in the order and movement sort of derailed their career prospects in Ecclesiastical circles. God chose fundamentalism and the charismatic approach over existential theology. I was struck, travelling cross country several years ago, on 2 lane highways, that it seems as though only the conservative churches have had heart and passion to root themselves in many local places. Music and broadcast christianity as well. With our focus on "globality", staying within the framework of Historical Christianity became increasingly relative as we engaged in countries not dominantly Christian In looking at old documents, like the Declaration of the Spirit Movement, I can see one could say that the primary concern was to address the "cultural revolution of the 20th century", ("renewal of the church FOR THE SAKE OF THE WORLD") Even the contextual documents on the local church describe it as an anthropological phenomenon and not a Christian reality
From a practical (and economic) perspective, at some point, participation in RS-1 peaked and we needed something else to keep the "movement" moving. While we talked of ourselves as an "Order" -- Religious Order, Historical Order, Global Order, seems we depended a lot on keeping momentum going. Sustainability and slowness were less important than Expenditure and transformation.
What is your take on it? Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona More info on: ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning : Mastering the Technology of Participation Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003 From: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net> To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com>; Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2016 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Carol and I are on vacation – but some quick thoughts: We’ve stayed kinda sorta grounded in the historical church as the called co-pastors of a small Presbyterian congregation in El Paso while doing the Project Vida thing. It makes a lot of sense for us – demythologizing as we go while tying the transparent stuff back to the text (Greek is really fun for this – ‘sin’ is actually hamartia – missing the mark – i.e. screwing up, and repentance is metanoia – new mindedness or ‘OH, is that what’s going on!). And getting to be part of people’s lives at a whole other level, which we also do in PV but not so intentionally. So the Word is the indicative (as we always learned again and again), not the imperative. And in our textual clarity, is embedded in being itself which is embedded in it, so naturally, nothing that comes into being happens without being in/of that Word…. Anyway, it’s all a lot of fun! From: OE [mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of zbarley via OE Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 10:20 AM To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net Subject: [Oe List ...] Fwd: Re: THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Zoe Barley <zbarley@earthlink.net> Date: 2016/10/03 12:41 PM (GMT-07:00) To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Cc: zbarley@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Yes, I suspect we are all still at it - according to age, ability, and conditions. And such work must go on, even when it is ephemeral. But I'm concerned about Spong's challenge. He would yet attempt to renew the church. We began the work in the Order of imagining - and practicing - a wholly new liturgy. Is that where to begin? This is not exciting or immediately rewarding work - if ever - and it is not transformational in the first instance. I do not know who or what group is able to respond. Perhaps the Order is too vested in the community work to now turn back to the church. But I can't see that any such work can be sustained without the Word in some form. Zoe -----Original Message----- From: James Wiegel Sent: Oct 3, 2016 9:03 AM To: zbarley Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT How does the beginning of Ecclesiastes go? Emptiness Emptiness says the speaker, emptiness, all is empty. What does man gain from his labor?? And, even that "internal strength and depth of belief to create the renewed dynamic in society" seemed to slip away . . . Bill and Carol Schlessinger are still at it with Projecto Vida in El Paso . . . Jim Wiegel <http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=123> “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com <mailto:marilyn.oyler@gmail.com> www.partnersinparticipation.com <http://www.partnersinparticipation.com/> Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona <http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=10> More info on: ToP® Facilitation Methods <http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=48> ToP® Strategic Planning <http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=50> : Mastering the Technology of Participation <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz3mniiYCdI> Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule <http://www.top-training.net/> AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses The AZ ToP® Community of Practice <http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=203> meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003 <https://www.google.com/maps/place/648+N+5th+Ave/@33.456329,-112.080545,16z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x872b123a5312512d:0x93c9f71171108956?hl=> _____ From: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net> To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Cc: "zbarley@earthlink.net" <zbarley@earthlink.net> Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 6:29 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT We were certainly aware, first as priors in Cleveland, then as Galaxy pastors in Denver, that the church renewal plan wasn't working. And with Spong it's no sure thing, despite the ages of existence, that the church wants, realizes the urgency of, renewal today. Yet I have seen the community renewal projects I have worked on all run their course and fade away. The Order had the internal strength and depth of belief to create the renewed dynamic in society that was once called church. I know of no other entity who can do it. Zoe Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Date: 2016/10/02 9:40 PM (GMT-07:00) To: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Well, that is a good and interesting question, Zoe. And probably many people might have answers . . Here are a couple possible ones that come to my mind. The Fifth City Project and, later human development projects and town meetings had a lot more visceral excitement for us than the slow work of congregational renewal. This might have been more particularly true for us younger, non clergy folks who came right after you all . . . The Local Church Experiment with Galaxies and all did not produce exciting enough results to be sustained, and we never got sufficiently strong and widespread support from the denominational heirarchies to keep it going. It may well also have been the case that the "risks" that the Galaxy leadership and clergy families in the order and movement sort of derailed their career prospects in Ecclesiastical circles. God chose fundamentalism and the charismatic approach over existential theology. I was struck, travelling cross country several years ago, on 2 lane highways, that it seems as though only the conservative churches have had heart and passion to root themselves in many local places. Music and broadcast christianity as well. With our focus on "globality", staying within the framework of Historical Christianity became increasingly relative as we engaged in countries not dominantly Christian In looking at old documents, like the Declaration of the Spirit Movement, I can see one could say that the primary concern was to address the "cultural revolution of the 20th century", ("renewal of the church FOR THE SAKE OF THE WORLD") Even the contextual documents on the local church describe it as an anthropological phenomenon and not a Christian reality
From a practical (and economic) perspective, at some point, participation in RS-1 peaked and we needed something else to keep the "movement" moving. While we talked of ourselves as an "Order" -- Religious Order, Historical Order, Global Order, seems we depended a lot on keeping momentum going. Sustainability and slowness were less important than Expenditure and transformation.
What is your take on it? Jim Wiegel <http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=123> “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com <mailto:marilyn.oyler@gmail.com> www.partnersinparticipation.com <http://www.partnersinparticipation.com/> Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona <http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=10> More info on: ToP® Facilitation Methods <http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=48> ToP® Strategic Planning <http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=50> : Mastering the Technology of Participation <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz3mniiYCdI> Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule <http://www.top-training.net/> AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses The AZ ToP® Community of Practice <http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=203> meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003 <https://www.google.com/maps/place/648+N+5th+Ave/@33.456329,-112.080545,16z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x872b123a5312512d:0x93c9f71171108956?hl=> _____ From: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net> To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com>; Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2016 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT
Hey Bill and Carol, Good to hear from you. Hope you have a relaxing, enjoyable, and renewing vacation. Glad you're still using your Greek--have forgotten most of mine... Tillich tried to talk about sin in another way other than the traditional "moralisms" of sins with an "s" and talked about the condition of sin as being separated from G-O-D, self, and others, One other definition of sin, in light of our cosmic community: Since life is intrinsically interrelated, connected, and never separated, sin is living AS IF we were not connected, "thereby missing the mark" and experiencing the consequences thereof. That also means dishonoring the individuation, diversity, complexity and communion that is all of evolving life, Ellie elliestock@aol.com -----Original Message----- From: Bill Schlesinger via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: 'zbarley' <zbarley@earthlink.net>; 'Order Ecumenical Community' <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Thu, Oct 6, 2016 10:56 am Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Fwd: Re: THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Carol and I are on vacation – but some quick thoughts: We’ve stayed kinda sorta grounded in the historical church as the called co-pastors of a small Presbyterian congregation in El Paso while doing the Project Vida thing. It makes a lot of sense for us – demythologizing as we go while tying the transparent stuff back to the text (Greek is really fun for this – ‘sin’ is actually hamartia – missing the mark – i.e. screwing up, and repentance is metanoia – new mindedness or ‘OH, is that what’s going on!). And getting to be part of people’s lives at a whole other level, which we also do in PV but not so intentionally. So the Word is the indicative (as we always learned again and again), not the imperative. And in our textual clarity, is embedded in being itself which is embedded in it, so naturally, nothing that comes into being happens without being in/of that Word…. Anyway, it’s all a lot of fun! From: OE [mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of zbarley via OE Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 10:20 AM To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net Subject: [Oe List ...] Fwd: Re: THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Zoe Barley <zbarley@earthlink.net> Date: 2016/10/03 12:41 PM (GMT-07:00) To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Cc: zbarley@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Yes, I suspect we are all still at it - according to age, ability, and conditions. And such work must go on, even when it is ephemeral. But I'm concerned about Spong's challenge. He would yet attempt to renew the church. We began the work in the Order of imagining - and practicing - a wholly new liturgy. Is that where to begin? This is not exciting or immediately rewarding work - if ever - and it is not transformational in the first instance. I do not know who or what group is able to respond. Perhaps the Order is too vested in the community work to now turn back to the church. But I can't see that any such work can be sustained without the Word in some form. Zoe -----Original Message----- From: James Wiegel Sent: Oct 3, 2016 9:03 AM To: zbarley Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT How does the beginning of Ecclesiastes go? Emptiness Emptiness says the speaker, emptiness, all is empty. What does man gain from his labor?? And, even that "internal strength and depth of belief to create the renewed dynamic in society" seemed to slip away . . . Bill and Carol Schlessinger are still at it with Projecto Vida in El Paso . . . Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona More info on: ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003 From: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net> To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Cc: "zbarley@earthlink.net" <zbarley@earthlink.net> Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 6:29 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT We were certainly aware, first as priors in Cleveland, then as Galaxy pastors in Denver, that the church renewal plan wasn't working. And with Spong it's no sure thing, despite the ages of existence, that the church wants, realizes the urgency of, renewal today. Yet I have seen the community renewal projects I have worked on all run their course and fade away. The Order had the internal strength and depth of belief to create the renewed dynamic in society that was once called church. I know of no other entity who can do it. Zoe Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Date: 2016/10/02 9:40 PM (GMT-07:00) To: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Well, that is a good and interesting question, Zoe. And probably many people might have answers . . Here are a couple possible ones that come to my mind. The Fifth City Project and, later human development projects and town meetings had a lot more visceral excitement for us than the slow work of congregational renewal. This might have been more particularly true for us younger, non clergy folks who came right after you all . . . The Local Church Experiment with Galaxies and all did not produce exciting enough results to be sustained, and we never got sufficiently strong and widespread support from the denominational heirarchies to keep it going. It may well also have been the case that the "risks" that the Galaxy leadership and clergy families in the order and movement sort of derailed their career prospects in Ecclesiastical circles. God chose fundamentalism and the charismatic approach over existential theology. I was struck, travelling cross country several years ago, on 2 lane highways, that it seems as though only the conservative churches have had heart and passion to root themselves in many local places. Music and broadcast christianity as well. With our focus on "globality", staying within the framework of Historical Christianity became increasingly relative as we engaged in countries not dominantly Christian In looking at old documents, like the Declaration of the Spirit Movement, I can see one could say that the primary concern was to address the "cultural revolution of the 20th century", ("renewal of the church FOR THE SAKE OF THE WORLD") Even the contextual documents on the local church describe it as an anthropological phenomenon and not a Christian reality
From a practical (and economic) perspective, at some point, participation in RS-1 peaked and we needed something else to keep the "movement" moving. While we talked of ourselves as an "Order" -- Religious Order, Historical Order, Global Order, seems we depended a lot on keeping momentum going. Sustainability and slowness were less important than Expenditure and transformation.
What is your take on it? Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona More info on: ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003 From: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net> To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com>; Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2016 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Thanks Bill Carol and Ellie - such good thinking and I resonate with it all from what I am now engaged with in my daily life. Thankyou all,🎑🎐🎊🎈 Isobel Sent from my iPhone
On 7 Oct 2016, at 3:21 am, Ellie Stock via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Hey Bill and Carol,
Good to hear from you. Hope you have a relaxing, enjoyable, and renewing vacation. Glad you're still using your Greek--have forgotten most of mine...
Tillich tried to talk about sin in another way other than the traditional "moralisms" of sins with an "s" and talked about the condition of sin as being separated from G-O-D, self, and others,
One other definition of sin, in light of our cosmic community: Since life is intrinsically interrelated, connected, and never separated, sin is living AS IF we were not connected, "thereby missing the mark" and experiencing the consequences thereof. That also means dishonoring the individuation, diversity, complexity and communion that is all of evolving life,
Ellie elliestock@aol.com
-----Original Message----- From: Bill Schlesinger via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: 'zbarley' <zbarley@earthlink.net>; 'Order Ecumenical Community' <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Thu, Oct 6, 2016 10:56 am Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Fwd: Re: THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT
Carol and I are on vacation – but some quick thoughts: We’ve stayed kinda sorta grounded in the historical church as the called co-pastors of a small Presbyterian congregation in El Paso while doing the Project Vida thing. It makes a lot of sense for us – demythologizing as we go while tying the transparent stuff back to the text (Greek is really fun for this – ‘sin’ is actually hamartia – missing the mark – i.e. screwing up, and repentance is metanoia – new mindedness or ‘OH, is that what’s going on!). And getting to be part of people’s lives at a whole other level, which we also do in PV but not so intentionally.
So the Word is the indicative (as we always learned again and again), not the imperative. And in our textual clarity, is embedded in being itself which is embedded in it, so naturally, nothing that comes into being happens without being in/of that Word….
Anyway, it’s all a lot of fun!
From: OE [mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of zbarley via OE Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2016 10:20 AM To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net Subject: [Oe List ...] Fwd: Re: THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message -------- From: Zoe Barley <zbarley@earthlink.net> Date: 2016/10/03 12:41 PM (GMT-07:00) To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Cc: zbarley@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Yes, I suspect we are all still at it - according to age, ability, and conditions. And such work must go on, even when it is ephemeral.
But I'm concerned about Spong's challenge. He would yet attempt to renew the church. We began the work in the Order of imagining - and practicing - a wholly new liturgy. Is that where to begin? This is not exciting or immediately rewarding work - if ever - and it is not transformational in the first instance. I do not know who or what group is able to respond. Perhaps the Order is too vested in the community work to now turn back to the church. But I can't see that any such work can be sustained without the Word in some form.
Zoe -----Original Message----- From: James Wiegel Sent: Oct 3, 2016 9:03 AM To: zbarley Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT
How does the beginning of Ecclesiastes go? Emptiness Emptiness says the speaker, emptiness, all is empty. What does man gain from his labor??
And, even that "internal strength and depth of belief to create the renewed dynamic in society" seemed to slip away . . . Bill and Carol Schlessinger are still at it with Projecto Vida in El Paso . . .
Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy
401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com
Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona
More info on:
ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation
Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses
The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003
From: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net> To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Cc: "zbarley@earthlink.net" <zbarley@earthlink.net> Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 6:29 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT
We were certainly aware, first as priors in Cleveland, then as Galaxy pastors in Denver, that the church renewal plan wasn't working. And with Spong it's no sure thing, despite the ages of existence, that the church wants, realizes the urgency of, renewal today. Yet I have seen the community renewal projects I have worked on all run their course and fade away. The Order had the internal strength and depth of belief to create the renewed dynamic in society that was once called church. I know of no other entity who can do it.
Zoe
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message -------- From: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Date: 2016/10/02 9:40 PM (GMT-07:00) To: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Well, that is a good and interesting question, Zoe. And probably many people might have answers . .
Here are a couple possible ones that come to my mind.
The Fifth City Project and, later human development projects and town meetings had a lot more visceral excitement for us than the slow work of congregational renewal. This might have been more particularly true for us younger, non clergy folks who came right after you all . . .
The Local Church Experiment with Galaxies and all did not produce exciting enough results to be sustained, and we never got sufficiently strong and widespread support from the denominational heirarchies to keep it going. It may well also have been the case that the "risks" that the Galaxy leadership and clergy families in the order and movement sort of derailed their career prospects in Ecclesiastical circles.
God chose fundamentalism and the charismatic approach over existential theology. I was struck, travelling cross country several years ago, on 2 lane highways, that it seems as though only the conservative churches have had heart and passion to root themselves in many local places. Music and broadcast christianity as well.
With our focus on "globality", staying within the framework of Historical Christianity became increasingly relative as we engaged in countries not dominantly Christian
In looking at old documents, like the Declaration of the Spirit Movement, I can see one could say that the primary concern was to address the "cultural revolution of the 20th century", ("renewal of the church FOR THE SAKE OF THE WORLD")
Even the contextual documents on the local church describe it as an anthropological phenomenon and not a Christian reality
From a practical (and economic) perspective, at some point, participation in RS-1 peaked and we needed something else to keep the "movement" moving. While we talked of ourselves as an "Order" -- Religious Order, Historical Order, Global Order, seems we depended a lot on keeping momentum going. Sustainability and slowness were less important than Expenditure and transformation.
What is your take on it? Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy
401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com
Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona
More info on:
ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation
Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses
The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003
From: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net> To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com>; Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2016 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
participants (8)
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Bill Schlesinger via OE -
Ellie Stock via OE
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Isobel Bishop via OE
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James Wiegel via OE
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Randy Williams via OE
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Sherwood Shankland via OE
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via OE
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zbarley via OE