New subject: Man on Fire

24 Dec 2018

      And besides, it takes time to gain courage and insight before I could say something to Charles and his family after such a profound event.  Joan

-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Gilles via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>
To: OE Listserve <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>
Cc: Jack Gilles <jackcgilles@gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, Dec 24, 2018 7:50 am
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Man on Fire

It won’t work because the mind needs to hear other answers to enrich the imagination and the group energy swirl. I guess you could lead it by asking people to answer just to themselves for levels 1 and 2, but not share until levels 3 and 4. 
Jack

On Dec 24, 2018, at 06:22, James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

Zoe and all . . .  Your comment finally caught my attention:  "Sorry the art form conversation didn't work.  Would have been much more helpful than straight to reflections.  Thanks for setting it up and providing the impetus. Maybe next time."
You may have hit upon a significant unmet challenge -- in the world of the internet and social media -- the constant stream of information and immediate reflection -- there seems to be no method, equivalent to an artform conversation, to get beneath the immediate swirl.  Hmmm, how to invent this . . .

Jim Wiegel401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353Tel. 011-623-936-8671 or 011-623-363-3277jfwiegel@yahoo.comwww.partnersinparticipation.com
When a great ship is in harbor and moored, it is safe, there can be no doubt.  "But that is not what great ships are built for."   Clarissa Pinkola Estes
On Dec 23, 2018, at 10:36, Zoe Barley via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

Marshall
Sorry the art form conversation didn't work.  Would have been much more helpful than straight to reflections.  Thanks for setting it up and providing the impetus. Maybe next time.
Zoe

-----Original Message-----
From: "W. J. via OE" 
Sent: Dec 21, 2018 3:31 PM
To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net
Cc: "W. J." 
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Man on Fire

 Colleagues, if you would like to refer to my gestalt of movie conversation questions, check out the attached .pdf. Maybe you will be inspired to share your further reflections on Man on Fire.The questions I would hope to get to in my personal reflections are here:

   - What would you say to Charles if you had the opportunity to intervene?   

   - What would you say to Charles' family members after his death?   

   - What does Charles' intentional death mean to you personally? and in the context of our life together in the Order?   

   - What is the 'message' of the film for you?   

   - What do you see as the significance for American culture of broadcasting the film on PBS?   

Hope these are helpful. Please feel free to share your reflections with us.And add your own questions!Marshall
    On Friday, December 21, 2018, 4:41:37 PM EST, Ellie Stock via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:  

 Scenes:  the desolate parking lot, driving to the parking lot, family narrations--the book with the photo of his being on fire, the two women talking--one who witnessed Charles immolation and the one with the tattoos who thought the community should examine its racism, the good ole' boys in the shop
Ellie Stock

-----Original Message-----
From: Jann McGuire via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>
To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>
Cc: Jann McGuire <jannmcguire@gmail.com>
Sent: Fri, Dec 21, 2018 3:32 pm
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Man on Fire

The scenes that stay with me are in the store in Grand Saline where the four men in front play dominos and the owner collects hats and pictures of deceased towns men on a shelf in the back. I have a lot more to say, but will honor the art form method.
Jann McGuire
On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 11:50 AM Margaret Aiseayew via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

Several scenes deeply impacted me.  I was blown away by what seemed to be obvious still existent racism in the newspaper editor and the chamber of commerce sort of representative.  It was as if you could see their blinders thickening as they declared their justifications.  There were many more.  The last scenes of the pep rally tore me apart.  Seeing the fire so clearly as the flag bearers were twirling.  It felt so lonely, to feel like the only person behind the flag seeing through.Margaret From: OE [.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of W. J. via OE
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 8:42 AM
To: Order Ecumenical Community
Cc: W. J.
Subject: [Oe List ...] Man on Fire Obviously, it's the 'wrong' time of year, when PBS could slip in something totally 'out of character' with the holiday season without much fanfare or public response.But for those of us who knew and respected Charles as a colleague and friend, this film was hard to miss. And very hard to see. At least for me.I am struck by the absence of any reference to the film here, let alone commentary.So let's have a movie conversation! Starting with, "What scene in the film stayed with you?"Your turn, folks.And on top of this tragedy, try to have a very Merry Christmas! If you can. With a long government shutdown about to happen. Too bad we can't shut down Mr. Trump and his Twitter feed.MarshallYou can view 'Man on Fire' here for free on-line through January 1:Man on Fire | Independent LensHerewith, in case you missed it, is the
DIRECTOR’S STATEMENT
On one level, “Man on Fire” is an investigation into the human spirit. As Charles Moore said in his “suicide” letter, “Our human race is impressed most of all with innocent suffering, and is moved significantly by little else. It isn’t important that I be remembered, but that someone cared enough to give up everything for the sake of others.” These words hold truth for us as a society, yet I, and others, question why someone chose this extreme measure to get our attention. I believe everyone has a piece of Moore in them, whether they are aware of it or not. This yearning to do more, to help others, to sacrifice for the larger good, compels our humanity. So when someone like Moore comes around, at least on the surface, we find ourselves awestruck, riddled with contradicting emotions. On one hand, we see the goodness in Moore, the love of humanity that compelled his actions; yet, on the other hand, the pain of his death overwhelms us too. This complexity was compounded with questions that others were asking in and around Grand Saline: Why did he do it? Is racism still in Grand Saline? Did he actually change anything? These questions were the seeds we planted, and through the process of filming, nurtured, in order to give some semblance of resolve for such an extreme act. Unfortunately (but also quite naturally), the answers to these questions are not so “black and white.” Thus, I hope this film inspires others to also ask these questions and sparks a real conversation on Moore’s death and the reality of racism. Inevitably, some people will write off Moore as crazy, using facts such as “we got a black president” (a quote from the film) to claim that racism doesn‘t exist anymore. However, I believe the answers are more complicated than that. “Man on Fire” uses Moore’s self-immolation as a vehicle to explore this small, mostly white town known for its racism. Moore’s death thus becomes the means to scratch beneath the surface of Grand Saline. The film captures the reality of small town Texas, illustrating Friday night football games, rodeos, homecoming parades, skating rinks, flea market sales, local businesses, and more. Nonetheless, the town of Grand Saline is just a microcosm for the rural south and inevitably America as a whole.Joel Fendelman, Director of “Man on Fire”
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Re: [Oe List ...] Man on Fire

Joan

Sherwood Shankland

Ann Avery

James Wiegel

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