It’s been a few weeks since I dropped a bomb on one of the threads here. It wasn’t my intention to just go silent. Immediately after my post my attention was snatched by a flooded basement, two sick pets, and the need for some changes in my Mom’s care. (All is fine on all fronts now.) After that there had been so much rich conversation and dialogue that I felt overwhelmed at the prospect of responding in an articulate and meaningful way; I got paralyzed. Karen Snyder broke through my paralysis when she contacted me last week to talk about a witness I gave in 1983 (I was 22) about Celebration 10, a Student House reunion/gathering. After talking with Karen I decided I just need to write SOMETHING, even if I don’t have all my thoughts and feelings sorted out. I have no illusions that I can tell my whole story in one piece of writing. (Marsha spent months writing her reflections; I think David Marshall spent 20ish (?) years writing “Iron Boy.”) Today, my only intention is to write from my heart, to tell some pieces of my experience, my truth. Bear with me if I ramble a bit; if I let my inner critic get too involved, I’ll never post anything. 😊 So … in no particular order: ~ Starting with the bomb I dropped a few weeks back … I was sexually molested by the first prior in the house I was assigned to when I was in 7th grade. I think that person left the Order not too long after that, and I am almost certain he has died by now. I pushed that experience and the memories down for many years and finally faced them when I was in my late 20s. Therapy and conversations with the people closest to me helped me process, heal and move forward. Even so, as with any powerful life experience, the experience shapes one, becomes part of one’s fiber, woven in. The experience does not define me. It also cannot un-happen. ~ I live with an interesting paradox at my center. Unlike many of my 2nd Generation peers, I have never wished I had a different life than I had growing up. I have many very fond memories from my life in the Order, which started when I was 3 years old. I have always been grateful for the many gifts that came with that life: community; a big extended family with scores of extra brothers and sisters and lifelong friendships; a global perspective; a trained intellect; a profound understanding of and care about the injustices in the world. There are many others. At the same time, there is just as much that makes me sad and angry. I could start right there—emotions. The Order was intellectually brilliant … and largely devoid of heart and compassion. Love is not just a structural approach; it is also a human emotion (and I’m not just talking about romantic love).
From my perspective, emotion wasn’t just ignored it was considered weak, wrong, unhelpful … put down and squelched. What a loss for all of us. And to return to one of the central pieces of recent discussion … in my opinion, separating families and not TRULY caring for children and youth was a HUGE mistake. I’ve always felt my parents’ love and I’ve always loved them powerfully, and when my father died I was devastated to realize how few actual memories I had of time with him before my parents moved to Bloomington when I was 43 and he was 73. Would there have been hard times and “bad” memories if we’d been together all those years? Of course! That doesn't change that I was denied years of connection with my parents. How sad that at some point the decision was made to take “family” out of “family order.” There’s a lot more I could say about good and bad, pro and con, but it’s more than I am up to at the moment. Perhaps the main point I want to make is that acknowledging mistakes doesn’t mean there was no good, no value. I am a product of all of it.
~ Back to my appreciation of our community: I have ALWAYS been so grateful for my Order family. I have wonderful memories of SO many of you! I remember the Marshalls and Hahns all going out for dinner in our VW beetle (yes, there were 10 of us!) one family night. The Barleys took me in as family and cared for me exquisitely for three months when I was in 4th grade when my parents first went to England. The Wainwrights and Baileys were my family in Santa Monica, the Averys and Bonnells (before Clare was even a Bonnell 😊) in England. Alfrieda Wilkins was my guardian when I was in high school and did a stellar job in a difficult role—big sister, friend, mentor. Martha Laird was assigned to oversee our youth cluster at Kemper when I was 16 or 17 and we all adored her (she got off easy with a fairly responsible bunch 😊). Bob Rafos was my surrogate dad when I was 18 and largely lost. Seeing so many of your faces and hearing your words during my father’s Zoom memorial service was the greatest gift I could have received at that painful time. I could go on and on. I am SO GRATEFUL for this bunch of human beings. Get ready for the emotion: I have real love for so many of you. This is my truth just as much as the truth that I was molested as a child. ~ And I have to address this separately: I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE my 2nd Generation family. I have a weekly breakfast with Tamara McClelland and Jane St. John. Yesterday as we walked to our favorite haunt, Jane said, “WE are the greatest gift we got from the Order.” “We” meaning all of us who grew up in the Order, in all of the different iterations and phases, with all the attendant joys and pains. She is right. The love and connection we share with one another is big and intense and powerful. Three weeks ago my husband and I drove to Chicago for a get together with Mark & Cari (Boivin) Jewell, Pat (Boivin) and Tom Price, David Allan and his wife, Susan, Chris Boivin, and Sharon Rafos. Chris & I realized we hadn’t seen each other in 35 years. It didn’t matter. From the instant that we all greeted each other it was as if not a week had passed. We support each other. We get each other. We celebrate each other. We listen to each other. Our reunions are fantastic. Big love. And I want to say as carefully and gently as I can: a big part of why we are so tight is that we get each other’s pain. Many of my peers say we came out as well as we did in spite of the Order, not because of it. Speaking for myself, I believe it’s a mix. But I think I can guarantee that none of us feel that the ends justify the means when it comes to the mistakes that were made with regard to how we were raised. That’s about as much as I have energy for right now. I mentioned that Karen Snyder contacted me about a witness I did in 1983. Wow! Karen asked for my permission to share that piece from the archives. On reflection, I don’t want to share that without also taking time to do a re-write from my 64-year-old perspective. Perhaps you’ll be seeing that in the not-too-distant future. A number of you reached out to me after my very short post a few weeks back. Please forgive me for not responding to you individually sooner. I do intend to get back to each of you soon, now that my heart and mind have settled a bit. Thanks to everyone for being out there. Thank you for “listening.” Thank you for being part of an important dialogue With love and respect, Shelley Hahn
Thank you, Shelley, for your sharing and willingness to be vulnerable in expression of your truth. My heart goes out to you for your courage and for that suffering. I have only just joined this list and am so grateful to see this kind of healing interaction taking place. The OE was life changing for me and my family, before, during and after. My dad and mom, Braxton & Marge Combs, were students of Joseph Matthews at SMU/Perkins in Dallas and he visited us many times in California where they moved for their ministry. We were in 5th City in the summer of ‘67, lived in Religious House in San Francisco in the early 70’s, my parents lived in the Paris House while I was in (the first?) Student House in ‘73-74. We left and my parents went back to work in the local church in California. Talk about culture shock! Later, to try to make some sense of it, I attended Academy in Chicago and did a paper on the progress in 5th City for college. My husband attended Academy in Belgium in ‘83. More recently, I was (luckily- thanks Julianne!) found on FB and joined that group list in time to join the 2G reunion in Bloomington. I just got David’s book and am enjoying starting to read it. Connecting with all of you feels like opening a special gift I didn’t realize I needed. So many rich memories! So much to process. What I know for sure is this: Our OE founders and leaders and our parent’s who joined created a vision for the future that was(is) so profound and radical and, just the fact they did so, that’s still super hopeful for me, especially considering where our world is now. It is still relevant and worthy of celebrating, but the deep sharing and healing from within that must also continue. The story is still being written! Big Love to all, Mary Combs Aptos, CA Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 23, 2025, at 10:41 AM, Shelley Hahn via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
It’s been a few weeks since I dropped a bomb on one of the threads here. It wasn’t my intention to just go silent. Immediately after my post my attention was snatched by a flooded basement, two sick pets, and the need for some changes in my Mom’s care. (All is fine on all fronts now.) After that there had been so much rich conversation and dialogue that I felt overwhelmed at the prospect of responding in an articulate and meaningful way; I got paralyzed. Karen Snyder broke through my paralysis when she contacted me last week to talk about a witness I gave in 1983 (I was 22) about Celebration 10, a Student House reunion/gathering. After talking with Karen I decided I just need to write SOMETHING, even if I don’t have all my thoughts and feelings sorted out. I have no illusions that I can tell my whole story in one piece of writing. (Marsha spent months writing her reflections; I think David Marshall spent 20ish (?) years writing “Iron Boy.”) Today, my only intention is to write from my heart, to tell some pieces of my experience, my truth. Bear with me if I ramble a bit; if I let my inner critic get too involved, I’ll never post anything. 😊 So … in no particular order:
~ Starting with the bomb I dropped a few weeks back … I was sexually molested by the first prior in the house I was assigned to when I was in 7th grade. I think that person left the Order not too long after that, and I am almost certain he has died by now. I pushed that experience and the memories down for many years and finally faced them when I was in my late 20s. Therapy and conversations with the people closest to me helped me process, heal and move forward. Even so, as with any powerful life experience, the experience shapes one, becomes part of one’s fiber, woven in. The experience does not define me. It also cannot un-happen.
~ I live with an interesting paradox at my center. Unlike many of my 2nd Generation peers, I have never wished I had a different life than I had growing up. I have many very fond memories from my life in the Order, which started when I was 3 years old. I have always been grateful for the many gifts that came with that life: community; a big extended family with scores of extra brothers and sisters and lifelong friendships; a global perspective; a trained intellect; a profound understanding of and care about the injustices in the world. There are many others. At the same time, there is just as much that makes me sad and angry. I could start right there—emotions. The Order was intellectually brilliant … and largely devoid of heart and compassion. Love is not just a structural approach; it is also a human emotion (and I’m not just talking about romantic love). From my perspective, emotion wasn’t just ignored it was considered weak, wrong, unhelpful … put down and squelched. What a loss for all of us. And to return to one of the central pieces of recent discussion … in my opinion, separating families and not TRULY caring for children and youth was a HUGE mistake. I’ve always felt my parents’ love and I’ve always loved them powerfully, and when my father died I was devastated to realize how few actual memories I had of time with him before my parents moved to Bloomington when I was 43 and he was 73. Would there have been hard times and “bad” memories if we’d been together all those years? Of course! That doesn't change that I was denied years of connection with my parents. How sad that at some point the decision was made to take “family” out of “family order.” There’s a lot more I could say about good and bad, pro and con, but it’s more than I am up to at the moment. Perhaps the main point I want to make is that acknowledging mistakes doesn’t mean there was no good, no value. I am a product of all of it.
~ Back to my appreciation of our community: I have ALWAYS been so grateful for my Order family. I have wonderful memories of SO many of you! I remember the Marshalls and Hahns all going out for dinner in our VW beetle (yes, there were 10 of us!) one family night. The Barleys took me in as family and cared for me exquisitely for three months when I was in 4th grade when my parents first went to England. The Wainwrights and Baileys were my family in Santa Monica, the Averys and Bonnells (before Clare was even a Bonnell 😊) in England. Alfrieda Wilkins was my guardian when I was in high school and did a stellar job in a difficult role—big sister, friend, mentor. Martha Laird was assigned to oversee our youth cluster at Kemper when I was 16 or 17 and we all adored her (she got off easy with a fairly responsible bunch 😊). Bob Rafos was my surrogate dad when I was 18 and largely lost. Seeing so many of your faces and hearing your words during my father’s Zoom memorial service was the greatest gift I could have received at that painful time. I could go on and on. I am SO GRATEFUL for this bunch of human beings. Get ready for the emotion: I have real love for so many of you. This is my truth just as much as the truth that I was molested as a child.
~ And I have to address this separately: I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE my 2nd Generation family. I have a weekly breakfast with Tamara McClelland and Jane St. John. Yesterday as we walked to our favorite haunt, Jane said, “WE are the greatest gift we got from the Order.” “We” meaning all of us who grew up in the Order, in all of the different iterations and phases, with all the attendant joys and pains. She is right. The love and connection we share with one another is big and intense and powerful. Three weeks ago my husband and I drove to Chicago for a get together with Mark & Cari (Boivin) Jewell, Pat (Boivin) and Tom Price, David Allan and his wife, Susan, Chris Boivin, and Sharon Rafos. Chris & I realized we hadn’t seen each other in 35 years. It didn’t matter. From the instant that we all greeted each other it was as if not a week had passed. We support each other. We get each other. We celebrate each other. We listen to each other. Our reunions are fantastic. Big love. And I want to say as carefully and gently as I can: a big part of why we are so tight is that we get each other’s pain. Many of my peers say we came out as well as we did in spite of the Order, not because of it. Speaking for myself, I believe it’s a mix. But I think I can guarantee that none of us feel that the ends justify the means when it comes to the mistakes that were made with regard to how we were raised.
That’s about as much as I have energy for right now. I mentioned that Karen Snyder contacted me about a witness I did in 1983. Wow! Karen asked for my permission to share that piece from the archives. On reflection, I don’t want to share that without also taking time to do a re-write from my 64-year-old perspective. Perhaps you’ll be seeing that in the not-too-distant future.
A number of you reached out to me after my very short post a few weeks back. Please forgive me for not responding to you individually sooner. I do intend to get back to each of you soon, now that my heart and mind have settled a bit.
Thanks to everyone for being out there. Thank you for “listening.” Thank you for being part of an important dialogue
With love and respect, Shelley Hahn
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
I just simply want to tell you thank you for your courage. On Thu, Jul 24, 2025, 2:55 PM Mary Combs via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Thank you, Shelley, for your sharing and willingness to be vulnerable in expression of your truth. My heart goes out to you for your courage and for that suffering. I have only just joined this list and am so grateful to see this kind of healing interaction taking place. The OE was life changing for me and my family, before, during and after. My dad and mom, Braxton & Marge Combs, were students of Joseph Matthews at SMU/Perkins in Dallas and he visited us many times in California where they moved for their ministry. We were in 5th City in the summer of ‘67, lived in Religious House in San Francisco in the early 70’s, my parents lived in the Paris House while I was in (the first?) Student House in ‘73-74. We left and my parents went back to work in the local church in California. Talk about culture shock! Later, to try to make some sense of it, I attended Academy in Chicago and did a paper on the progress in 5th City for college. My husband attended Academy in Belgium in ‘83. More recently, I was (luckily- thanks Julianne!) found on FB and joined that group list in time to join the 2G reunion in Bloomington. I just got David’s book and am enjoying starting to read it. Connecting with all of you feels like opening a special gift I didn’t realize I needed. So many rich memories! So much to process. What I know for sure is this: Our OE founders and leaders and our parent’s who joined created a vision for the future that was(is) so profound and radical and, just the fact they did so, that’s still super hopeful for me, especially considering where our world is now. It is still relevant and worthy of celebrating, but the deep sharing and healing from within that must also continue. The story is still being written! Big Love to all, Mary Combs Aptos, CA
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 23, 2025, at 10:41 AM, Shelley Hahn via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
It’s been a few weeks since I dropped a bomb on one of the threads here. It wasn’t my intention to just go silent. Immediately after my post my attention was snatched by a flooded basement, two sick pets, and the need for some changes in my Mom’s care. (All is fine on all fronts now.) After that there had been so much rich conversation and dialogue that I felt overwhelmed at the prospect of responding in an articulate and meaningful way; I got paralyzed. Karen Snyder broke through my paralysis when she contacted me last week to talk about a witness I gave in 1983 (I was 22) about Celebration 10, a Student House reunion/gathering. After talking with Karen I decided I just need to write SOMETHING, even if I don’t have all my thoughts and feelings sorted out. I have no illusions that I can tell my whole story in one piece of writing. (Marsha spent months writing her reflections; I think David Marshall spent 20ish (?) years writing “Iron Boy.”) Today, my only intention is to write from my heart, to tell some pieces of my experience, my truth. Bear with me if I ramble a bit; if I let my inner critic get too involved, I’ll never post anything. 😊 So … in no particular order:
~ Starting with the bomb I dropped a few weeks back … I was sexually molested by the first prior in the house I was assigned to when I was in 7 th grade. I think that person left the Order not too long after that, and I am almost certain he has died by now. I pushed that experience and the memories down for many years and finally faced them when I was in my late 20s. Therapy and conversations with the people closest to me helped me process, heal and move forward. Even so, as with any powerful life experience, the experience shapes one, becomes part of one’s fiber, woven in. The experience does not define me. It also cannot un-happen.
~ I live with an interesting paradox at my center. Unlike many of my 2nd Generation peers, I have never wished I had a different life than I had growing up. I have many very fond memories from my life in the Order, which started when I was 3 years old. I have always been grateful for the many gifts that came with that life: community; a big extended family with scores of extra brothers and sisters and lifelong friendships; a global perspective; a trained intellect; a profound understanding of and care about the injustices in the world. There are many others. At the same time, there is just as much that makes me sad and angry. I could start right there—emotions. The Order was intellectually brilliant … and largely devoid of heart and compassion. Love is not just a structural approach; it is also a human emotion (and I’m not just talking about romantic love). From my perspective, emotion wasn’t just ignored it was considered weak, wrong, unhelpful … put down and squelched. What a loss for all of us. And to return to one of the central pieces of recent discussion … in my opinion, separating families and not TRULY caring for children and youth was a HUGE mistake. I’ve always felt my parents’ love and I’ve always loved them powerfully, and when my father died I was devastated to realize how few actual memories I had of time with him before my parents moved to Bloomington when I was 43 and he was 73. Would there have been hard times and “bad” memories if we’d been together all those years? Of course! That doesn't change that I was denied years of connection with my parents. How sad that at some point the decision was made to take “family” out of “family order.” There’s a lot more I could say about good and bad, pro and con, but it’s more than I am up to at the moment. Perhaps the main point I want to make is that acknowledging mistakes doesn’t mean there was no good, no value. I am a product of all of it.
~ Back to my appreciation of our community: I have ALWAYS been so grateful for my Order family. I have wonderful memories of SO many of you! I remember the Marshalls and Hahns all going out for dinner in our VW beetle (yes, there were 10 of us!) one family night. The Barleys took me in as family and cared for me exquisitely for three months when I was in 4 th grade when my parents first went to England. The Wainwrights and Baileys were my family in Santa Monica, the Averys and Bonnells (before Clare was even a Bonnell 😊) in England. Alfrieda Wilkins was my guardian when I was in high school and did a stellar job in a difficult role—big sister, friend, mentor. Martha Laird was assigned to oversee our youth cluster at Kemper when I was 16 or 17 and we all adored her (she got off easy with a fairly responsible bunch 😊). Bob Rafos was my surrogate dad when I was 18 and largely lost. Seeing so many of your faces and hearing your words during my father’s Zoom memorial service was the greatest gift I could have received at that painful time. I could go on and on. I am SO GRATEFUL for this bunch of human beings. Get ready for the emotion: I have real love for so many of you. This is my truth just as much as the truth that I was molested as a child.
~ And I have to address this separately: I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE my 2nd Generation family. I have a weekly breakfast with Tamara McClelland and Jane St. John. Yesterday as we walked to our favorite haunt, Jane said, “WE are the greatest gift we got from the Order.” “We” meaning all of us who grew up in the Order, in all of the different iterations and phases, with all the attendant joys and pains. She is right. The love and connection we share with one another is big and intense and powerful. Three weeks ago my husband and I drove to Chicago for a get together with Mark & Cari (Boivin) Jewell, Pat (Boivin) and Tom Price, David Allan and his wife, Susan, Chris Boivin, and Sharon Rafos. Chris & I realized we hadn’t seen each other in 35 years. It didn’t matter. From the instant that we all greeted each other it was as if not a week had passed. We support each other. We get each other. We celebrate each other. We listen to each other. Our reunions are fantastic. Big love. And I want to say as carefully and gently as I can: a big part of why we are so tight is that we get each other’s pain. Many of my peers say we came out as well as we did in spite of the Order, not because of it. Speaking for myself, I believe it’s a mix. But I think I can guarantee that none of us feel that the ends justify the means when it comes to the mistakes that were made with regard to how we were raised.
That’s about as much as I have energy for right now. I mentioned that Karen Snyder contacted me about a witness I did in 1983. Wow! Karen asked for my permission to share that piece from the archives. On reflection, I don’t want to share that without also taking time to do a re-write from my 64-year-old perspective. Perhaps you’ll be seeing that in the not-too-distant future.
A number of you reached out to me after my very short post a few weeks back. Please forgive me for not responding to you individually sooner. I do intend to get back to each of you soon, now that my heart and mind have settled a bit.
Thanks to everyone for being out there. Thank you for “listening.” Thank you for being part of an important dialogue
With love and respect,
Shelley Hahn
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Thank you, Ed. 🙏 On Thu, Jul 24, 2025, 4:55 PM Ed Feldmanis <edfeldmanis@gmail.com> wrote:
I just simply want to tell you thank you for your courage.
On Thu, Jul 24, 2025, 2:55 PM Mary Combs via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Thank you, Shelley, for your sharing and willingness to be vulnerable in expression of your truth. My heart goes out to you for your courage and for that suffering. I have only just joined this list and am so grateful to see this kind of healing interaction taking place. The OE was life changing for me and my family, before, during and after. My dad and mom, Braxton & Marge Combs, were students of Joseph Matthews at SMU/Perkins in Dallas and he visited us many times in California where they moved for their ministry. We were in 5th City in the summer of ‘67, lived in Religious House in San Francisco in the early 70’s, my parents lived in the Paris House while I was in (the first?) Student House in ‘73-74. We left and my parents went back to work in the local church in California. Talk about culture shock! Later, to try to make some sense of it, I attended Academy in Chicago and did a paper on the progress in 5th City for college. My husband attended Academy in Belgium in ‘83. More recently, I was (luckily- thanks Julianne!) found on FB and joined that group list in time to join the 2G reunion in Bloomington. I just got David’s book and am enjoying starting to read it. Connecting with all of you feels like opening a special gift I didn’t realize I needed. So many rich memories! So much to process. What I know for sure is this: Our OE founders and leaders and our parent’s who joined created a vision for the future that was(is) so profound and radical and, just the fact they did so, that’s still super hopeful for me, especially considering where our world is now. It is still relevant and worthy of celebrating, but the deep sharing and healing from within that must also continue. The story is still being written! Big Love to all, Mary Combs Aptos, CA
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 23, 2025, at 10:41 AM, Shelley Hahn via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
It’s been a few weeks since I dropped a bomb on one of the threads here. It wasn’t my intention to just go silent. Immediately after my post my attention was snatched by a flooded basement, two sick pets, and the need for some changes in my Mom’s care. (All is fine on all fronts now.) After that there had been so much rich conversation and dialogue that I felt overwhelmed at the prospect of responding in an articulate and meaningful way; I got paralyzed. Karen Snyder broke through my paralysis when she contacted me last week to talk about a witness I gave in 1983 (I was 22) about Celebration 10, a Student House reunion/gathering. After talking with Karen I decided I just need to write SOMETHING, even if I don’t have all my thoughts and feelings sorted out. I have no illusions that I can tell my whole story in one piece of writing. (Marsha spent months writing her reflections; I think David Marshall spent 20ish (?) years writing “Iron Boy.”) Today, my only intention is to write from my heart, to tell some pieces of my experience, my truth. Bear with me if I ramble a bit; if I let my inner critic get too involved, I’ll never post anything. 😊 So … in no particular order:
~ Starting with the bomb I dropped a few weeks back … I was sexually molested by the first prior in the house I was assigned to when I was in 7 th grade. I think that person left the Order not too long after that, and I am almost certain he has died by now. I pushed that experience and the memories down for many years and finally faced them when I was in my late 20s. Therapy and conversations with the people closest to me helped me process, heal and move forward. Even so, as with any powerful life experience, the experience shapes one, becomes part of one’s fiber, woven in. The experience does not define me. It also cannot un-happen.
~ I live with an interesting paradox at my center. Unlike many of my 2nd Generation peers, I have never wished I had a different life than I had growing up. I have many very fond memories from my life in the Order, which started when I was 3 years old. I have always been grateful for the many gifts that came with that life: community; a big extended family with scores of extra brothers and sisters and lifelong friendships; a global perspective; a trained intellect; a profound understanding of and care about the injustices in the world. There are many others. At the same time, there is just as much that makes me sad and angry. I could start right there—emotions. The Order was intellectually brilliant … and largely devoid of heart and compassion. Love is not just a structural approach; it is also a human emotion (and I’m not just talking about romantic love). From my perspective, emotion wasn’t just ignored it was considered weak, wrong, unhelpful … put down and squelched. What a loss for all of us. And to return to one of the central pieces of recent discussion … in my opinion, separating families and not TRULY caring for children and youth was a HUGE mistake. I’ve always felt my parents’ love and I’ve always loved them powerfully, and when my father died I was devastated to realize how few actual memories I had of time with him before my parents moved to Bloomington when I was 43 and he was 73. Would there have been hard times and “bad” memories if we’d been together all those years? Of course! That doesn't change that I was denied years of connection with my parents. How sad that at some point the decision was made to take “family” out of “family order.” There’s a lot more I could say about good and bad, pro and con, but it’s more than I am up to at the moment. Perhaps the main point I want to make is that acknowledging mistakes doesn’t mean there was no good, no value. I am a product of all of it.
~ Back to my appreciation of our community: I have ALWAYS been so grateful for my Order family. I have wonderful memories of SO many of you! I remember the Marshalls and Hahns all going out for dinner in our VW beetle (yes, there were 10 of us!) one family night. The Barleys took me in as family and cared for me exquisitely for three months when I was in 4 th grade when my parents first went to England. The Wainwrights and Baileys were my family in Santa Monica, the Averys and Bonnells (before Clare was even a Bonnell 😊) in England. Alfrieda Wilkins was my guardian when I was in high school and did a stellar job in a difficult role—big sister, friend, mentor. Martha Laird was assigned to oversee our youth cluster at Kemper when I was 16 or 17 and we all adored her (she got off easy with a fairly responsible bunch 😊). Bob Rafos was my surrogate dad when I was 18 and largely lost. Seeing so many of your faces and hearing your words during my father’s Zoom memorial service was the greatest gift I could have received at that painful time. I could go on and on. I am SO GRATEFUL for this bunch of human beings. Get ready for the emotion: I have real love for so many of you. This is my truth just as much as the truth that I was molested as a child.
~ And I have to address this separately: I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE my 2nd Generation family. I have a weekly breakfast with Tamara McClelland and Jane St. John. Yesterday as we walked to our favorite haunt, Jane said, “WE are the greatest gift we got from the Order.” “We” meaning all of us who grew up in the Order, in all of the different iterations and phases, with all the attendant joys and pains. She is right. The love and connection we share with one another is big and intense and powerful. Three weeks ago my husband and I drove to Chicago for a get together with Mark & Cari (Boivin) Jewell, Pat (Boivin) and Tom Price, David Allan and his wife, Susan, Chris Boivin, and Sharon Rafos. Chris & I realized we hadn’t seen each other in 35 years. It didn’t matter. >From the instant that we all greeted each other it was as if not a week had passed. We support each other. We get each other. We celebrate each other. We listen to each other. Our reunions are fantastic. Big love. And I want to say as carefully and gently as I can: a big part of why we are so tight is that we get each other’s pain. Many of my peers say we came out as well as we did in spite of the Order, not because of it. Speaking for myself, I believe it’s a mix. But I think I can guarantee that none of us feel that the ends justify the means when it comes to the mistakes that were made with regard to how we were raised.
That’s about as much as I have energy for right now. I mentioned that Karen Snyder contacted me about a witness I did in 1983. Wow! Karen asked for my permission to share that piece from the archives. On reflection, I don’t want to share that without also taking time to do a re-write from my 64-year-old perspective. Perhaps you’ll be seeing that in the not-too-distant future.
A number of you reached out to me after my very short post a few weeks back. Please forgive me for not responding to you individually sooner. I do intend to get back to each of you soon, now that my heart and mind have settled a bit.
Thanks to everyone for being out there. Thank you for “listening.” Thank you for being part of an important dialogue
With love and respect,
Shelley Hahn
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
It is wonderful to hear from you, Mary! I was so happy you made it to the reunion here in IN; such a joy to reconnect after so many years. I hope our paths cross again soon. Much love, Shelley On Thu, Jul 24, 2025, 3:54 PM Mary Combs <marycombs14@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you, Shelley, for your sharing and willingness to be vulnerable in expression of your truth. My heart goes out to you for your courage and for that suffering. I have only just joined this list and am so grateful to see this kind of healing interaction taking place. The OE was life changing for me and my family, before, during and after. My dad and mom, Braxton & Marge Combs, were students of Joseph Matthews at SMU/Perkins in Dallas and he visited us many times in California where they moved for their ministry. We were in 5th City in the summer of ‘67, lived in Religious House in San Francisco in the early 70’s, my parents lived in the Paris House while I was in (the first?) Student House in ‘73-74. We left and my parents went back to work in the local church in California. Talk about culture shock! Later, to try to make some sense of it, I attended Academy in Chicago and did a paper on the progress in 5th City for college. My husband attended Academy in Belgium in ‘83. More recently, I was (luckily- thanks Julianne!) found on FB and joined that group list in time to join the 2G reunion in Bloomington. I just got David’s book and am enjoying starting to read it. Connecting with all of you feels like opening a special gift I didn’t realize I needed. So many rich memories! So much to process. What I know for sure is this: Our OE founders and leaders and our parent’s who joined created a vision for the future that was(is) so profound and radical and, just the fact they did so, that’s still super hopeful for me, especially considering where our world is now. It is still relevant and worthy of celebrating, but the deep sharing and healing from within that must also continue. The story is still being written! Big Love to all, Mary Combs Aptos, CA
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 23, 2025, at 10:41 AM, Shelley Hahn via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
It’s been a few weeks since I dropped a bomb on one of the threads here. It wasn’t my intention to just go silent. Immediately after my post my attention was snatched by a flooded basement, two sick pets, and the need for some changes in my Mom’s care. (All is fine on all fronts now.) After that there had been so much rich conversation and dialogue that I felt overwhelmed at the prospect of responding in an articulate and meaningful way; I got paralyzed. Karen Snyder broke through my paralysis when she contacted me last week to talk about a witness I gave in 1983 (I was 22) about Celebration 10, a Student House reunion/gathering. After talking with Karen I decided I just need to write SOMETHING, even if I don’t have all my thoughts and feelings sorted out. I have no illusions that I can tell my whole story in one piece of writing. (Marsha spent months writing her reflections; I think David Marshall spent 20ish (?) years writing “Iron Boy.”) Today, my only intention is to write from my heart, to tell some pieces of my experience, my truth. Bear with me if I ramble a bit; if I let my inner critic get too involved, I’ll never post anything. 😊 So … in no particular order:
~ Starting with the bomb I dropped a few weeks back … I was sexually molested by the first prior in the house I was assigned to when I was in 7 th grade. I think that person left the Order not too long after that, and I am almost certain he has died by now. I pushed that experience and the memories down for many years and finally faced them when I was in my late 20s. Therapy and conversations with the people closest to me helped me process, heal and move forward. Even so, as with any powerful life experience, the experience shapes one, becomes part of one’s fiber, woven in. The experience does not define me. It also cannot un-happen.
~ I live with an interesting paradox at my center. Unlike many of my 2nd Generation peers, I have never wished I had a different life than I had growing up. I have many very fond memories from my life in the Order, which started when I was 3 years old. I have always been grateful for the many gifts that came with that life: community; a big extended family with scores of extra brothers and sisters and lifelong friendships; a global perspective; a trained intellect; a profound understanding of and care about the injustices in the world. There are many others. At the same time, there is just as much that makes me sad and angry. I could start right there—emotions. The Order was intellectually brilliant … and largely devoid of heart and compassion. Love is not just a structural approach; it is also a human emotion (and I’m not just talking about romantic love). From my perspective, emotion wasn’t just ignored it was considered weak, wrong, unhelpful … put down and squelched. What a loss for all of us. And to return to one of the central pieces of recent discussion … in my opinion, separating families and not TRULY caring for children and youth was a HUGE mistake. I’ve always felt my parents’ love and I’ve always loved them powerfully, and when my father died I was devastated to realize how few actual memories I had of time with him before my parents moved to Bloomington when I was 43 and he was 73. Would there have been hard times and “bad” memories if we’d been together all those years? Of course! That doesn't change that I was denied years of connection with my parents. How sad that at some point the decision was made to take “family” out of “family order.” There’s a lot more I could say about good and bad, pro and con, but it’s more than I am up to at the moment. Perhaps the main point I want to make is that acknowledging mistakes doesn’t mean there was no good, no value. I am a product of all of it.
~ Back to my appreciation of our community: I have ALWAYS been so grateful for my Order family. I have wonderful memories of SO many of you! I remember the Marshalls and Hahns all going out for dinner in our VW beetle (yes, there were 10 of us!) one family night. The Barleys took me in as family and cared for me exquisitely for three months when I was in 4 th grade when my parents first went to England. The Wainwrights and Baileys were my family in Santa Monica, the Averys and Bonnells (before Clare was even a Bonnell 😊) in England. Alfrieda Wilkins was my guardian when I was in high school and did a stellar job in a difficult role—big sister, friend, mentor. Martha Laird was assigned to oversee our youth cluster at Kemper when I was 16 or 17 and we all adored her (she got off easy with a fairly responsible bunch 😊). Bob Rafos was my surrogate dad when I was 18 and largely lost. Seeing so many of your faces and hearing your words during my father’s Zoom memorial service was the greatest gift I could have received at that painful time. I could go on and on. I am SO GRATEFUL for this bunch of human beings. Get ready for the emotion: I have real love for so many of you. This is my truth just as much as the truth that I was molested as a child.
~ And I have to address this separately: I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE my 2nd Generation family. I have a weekly breakfast with Tamara McClelland and Jane St. John. Yesterday as we walked to our favorite haunt, Jane said, “WE are the greatest gift we got from the Order.” “We” meaning all of us who grew up in the Order, in all of the different iterations and phases, with all the attendant joys and pains. She is right. The love and connection we share with one another is big and intense and powerful. Three weeks ago my husband and I drove to Chicago for a get together with Mark & Cari (Boivin) Jewell, Pat (Boivin) and Tom Price, David Allan and his wife, Susan, Chris Boivin, and Sharon Rafos. Chris & I realized we hadn’t seen each other in 35 years. It didn’t matter. From the instant that we all greeted each other it was as if not a week had passed. We support each other. We get each other. We celebrate each other. We listen to each other. Our reunions are fantastic. Big love. And I want to say as carefully and gently as I can: a big part of why we are so tight is that we get each other’s pain. Many of my peers say we came out as well as we did in spite of the Order, not because of it. Speaking for myself, I believe it’s a mix. But I think I can guarantee that none of us feel that the ends justify the means when it comes to the mistakes that were made with regard to how we were raised.
That’s about as much as I have energy for right now. I mentioned that Karen Snyder contacted me about a witness I did in 1983. Wow! Karen asked for my permission to share that piece from the archives. On reflection, I don’t want to share that without also taking time to do a re-write from my 64-year-old perspective. Perhaps you’ll be seeing that in the not-too-distant future.
A number of you reached out to me after my very short post a few weeks back. Please forgive me for not responding to you individually sooner. I do intend to get back to each of you soon, now that my heart and mind have settled a bit.
Thanks to everyone for being out there. Thank you for “listening.” Thank you for being part of an important dialogue
With love and respect,
Shelley Hahn
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
I don’t know anyone who would not feel pain in hearing about the negative events of the past that have been rehearsed. It is hard to know what it means to repent and turn away from those mistakes in 2025. They are reminders of many mistakes we made in our experimentation on ourselves. I have often thought as a community of learning, we were no different than society; we were just the intensification of it. Our community had to create responses to issues just as others in society had to figure out for themselves in their families and communities. Around 2022 a Junior High page was created on the ICA Global Archives website in an attempt to share ICA intents, experiences and what we learned: https://icaglobalarchives.org/collections/imaginal-education/demonstrations1.... I found it helpful to re-read the writings recently, especially the Student House experience. Patricia Scott’s <https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21616.pdf> interviews of youth in 1970 are particularly revealing. There are the Student House documents (the Manual of Operations <https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/8676.pdf> (1980) and the Student House Yearbook: Telling Our Story 1981-1982 <https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21911.pdf>). Fred and Nancy Lanphear <https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/20286.pdf> tell stories of three years leading Student and High School Houses 1980-82. The Celebration 10 <https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21644.pdf> piece celebrated 10 years of the Student House, July 1983. What I most appreciate about these documents is that they acknowledge both gifts and challenges, strengths and weaknesses of years of learning about what it means to care for youth. Perhaps the writings will shed light on the multiple perspectives, intents and experiences of those experimental years. Peace and love, Karen Snyder Troxel (who interned in the College House in 1966)
On Jul 24, 2025, at 2:54 PM, Mary Combs via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Thank you, Shelley, for your sharing and willingness to be vulnerable in expression of your truth. My heart goes out to you for your courage and for that suffering. I have only just joined this list and am so grateful to see this kind of healing interaction taking place. The OE was life changing for me and my family, before, during and after. My dad and mom, Braxton & Marge Combs, were students of Joseph Matthews at SMU/Perkins in Dallas and he visited us many times in California where they moved for their ministry. We were in 5th City in the summer of ‘67, lived in Religious House in San Francisco in the early 70’s, my parents lived in the Paris House while I was in (the first?) Student House in ‘73-74. We left and my parents went back to work in the local church in California. Talk about culture shock! Later, to try to make some sense of it, I attended Academy in Chicago and did a paper on the progress in 5th City for college. My husband attended Academy in Belgium in ‘83. More recently, I was (luckily- thanks Julianne!) found on FB and joined that group list in time to join the 2G reunion in Bloomington. I just got David’s book and am enjoying starting to read it. Connecting with all of you feels like opening a special gift I didn’t realize I needed. So many rich memories! So much to process. What I know for sure is this: Our OE founders and leaders and our parent’s who joined created a vision for the future that was(is) so profound and radical and, just the fact they did so, that’s still super hopeful for me, especially considering where our world is now. It is still relevant and worthy of celebrating, but the deep sharing and healing from within that must also continue. The story is still being written! Big Love to all, Mary Combs Aptos, CA
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 23, 2025, at 10:41 AM, Shelley Hahn via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
It’s been a few weeks since I dropped a bomb on one of the threads here. It wasn’t my intention to just go silent. Immediately after my post my attention was snatched by a flooded basement, two sick pets, and the need for some changes in my Mom’s care. (All is fine on all fronts now.) After that there had been so much rich conversation and dialogue that I felt overwhelmed at the prospect of responding in an articulate and meaningful way; I got paralyzed. Karen Snyder broke through my paralysis when she contacted me last week to talk about a witness I gave in 1983 (I was 22) about Celebration 10, a Student House reunion/gathering. After talking with Karen I decided I just need to write SOMETHING, even if I don’t have all my thoughts and feelings sorted out. I have no illusions that I can tell my whole story in one piece of writing. (Marsha spent months writing her reflections; I think David Marshall spent 20ish (?) years writing “Iron Boy.”) Today, my only intention is to write from my heart, to tell some pieces of my experience, my truth. Bear with me if I ramble a bit; if I let my inner critic get too involved, I’ll never post anything. 😊 So … in no particular order:
~ Starting with the bomb I dropped a few weeks back … I was sexually molested by the first prior in the house I was assigned to when I was in 7th grade. I think that person left the Order not too long after that, and I am almost certain he has died by now. I pushed that experience and the memories down for many years and finally faced them when I was in my late 20s. Therapy and conversations with the people closest to me helped me process, heal and move forward. Even so, as with any powerful life experience, the experience shapes one, becomes part of one’s fiber, woven in. The experience does not define me. It also cannot un-happen.
~ I live with an interesting paradox at my center. Unlike many of my 2nd Generation peers, I have never wished I had a different life than I had growing up. I have many very fond memories from my life in the Order, which started when I was 3 years old. I have always been grateful for the many gifts that came with that life: community; a big extended family with scores of extra brothers and sisters and lifelong friendships; a global perspective; a trained intellect; a profound understanding of and care about the injustices in the world. There are many others. At the same time, there is just as much that makes me sad and angry. I could start right there—emotions. The Order was intellectually brilliant … and largely devoid of heart and compassion. Love is not just a structural approach; it is also a human emotion (and I’m not just talking about romantic love). From my perspective, emotion wasn’t just ignored it was considered weak, wrong, unhelpful … put down and squelched. What a loss for all of us. And to return to one of the central pieces of recent discussion … in my opinion, separating families and not TRULY caring for children and youth was a HUGE mistake. I’ve always felt my parents’ love and I’ve always loved them powerfully, and when my father died I was devastated to realize how few actual memories I had of time with him before my parents moved to Bloomington when I was 43 and he was 73. Would there have been hard times and “bad” memories if we’d been together all those years? Of course! That doesn't change that I was denied years of connection with my parents. How sad that at some point the decision was made to take “family” out of “family order.” There’s a lot more I could say about good and bad, pro and con, but it’s more than I am up to at the moment. Perhaps the main point I want to make is that acknowledging mistakes doesn’t mean there was no good, no value. I am a product of all of it.
~ Back to my appreciation of our community: I have ALWAYS been so grateful for my Order family. I have wonderful memories of SO many of you! I remember the Marshalls and Hahns all going out for dinner in our VW beetle (yes, there were 10 of us!) one family night. The Barleys took me in as family and cared for me exquisitely for three months when I was in 4th grade when my parents first went to England. The Wainwrights and Baileys were my family in Santa Monica, the Averys and Bonnells (before Clare was even a Bonnell 😊) in England. Alfrieda Wilkins was my guardian when I was in high school and did a stellar job in a difficult role—big sister, friend, mentor. Martha Laird was assigned to oversee our youth cluster at Kemper when I was 16 or 17 and we all adored her (she got off easy with a fairly responsible bunch 😊). Bob Rafos was my surrogate dad when I was 18 and largely lost. Seeing so many of your faces and hearing your words during my father’s Zoom memorial service was the greatest gift I could have received at that painful time. I could go on and on. I am SO GRATEFUL for this bunch of human beings. Get ready for the emotion: I have real love for so many of you. This is my truth just as much as the truth that I was molested as a child.
~ And I have to address this separately: I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE my 2nd Generation family. I have a weekly breakfast with Tamara McClelland and Jane St. John. Yesterday as we walked to our favorite haunt, Jane said, “WE are the greatest gift we got from the Order.” “We” meaning all of us who grew up in the Order, in all of the different iterations and phases, with all the attendant joys and pains. She is right. The love and connection we share with one another is big and intense and powerful. Three weeks ago my husband and I drove to Chicago for a get together with Mark & Cari (Boivin) Jewell, Pat (Boivin) and Tom Price, David Allan and his wife, Susan, Chris Boivin, and Sharon Rafos. Chris & I realized we hadn’t seen each other in 35 years. It didn’t matter. From the instant that we all greeted each other it was as if not a week had passed. We support each other. We get each other. We celebrate each other. We listen to each other. Our reunions are fantastic. Big love. And I want to say as carefully and gently as I can: a big part of why we are so tight is that we get each other’s pain. Many of my peers say we came out as well as we did in spite of the Order, not because of it. Speaking for myself, I believe it’s a mix. But I think I can guarantee that none of us feel that the ends justify the means when it comes to the mistakes that were made with regard to how we were raised.
That’s about as much as I have energy for right now. I mentioned that Karen Snyder contacted me about a witness I did in 1983. Wow! Karen asked for my permission to share that piece from the archives. On reflection, I don’t want to share that without also taking time to do a re-write from my 64-year-old perspective. Perhaps you’ll be seeing that in the not-too-distant future.
A number of you reached out to me after my very short post a few weeks back. Please forgive me for not responding to you individually sooner. I do intend to get back to each of you soon, now that my heart and mind have settled a bit.
Thanks to everyone for being out there. Thank you for “listening.” Thank you for being part of an important dialogue
With love and respect, Shelley Hahn
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
I remember that the College House closed in ’67? I came into the ‘Seminarian’s’ something or other then. My memory of myself was pretty clueless! It was an experiment – and there were learnings that were sometimes hard bought in ways we’d rather not repeat. That said, ‘new mindedness’ in 2025 is recognizing and responding to the presence of trauma in ourselves and our children that came from those experiments. Fearing that pain as attack on us or what we did is a signal that we’re holding onto an a world of ‘justification’ (a la Bonhoeffer) in ourselves, and that’s a fragile perspective … Balloon busting even. FWIW Bill Schlesinger Transition Consultant Project Vida www.pvida.net 3607 Rivera Avenue El Paso TX 79905 (915) 490-6148 Cell From: OE <oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> On Behalf Of Karen Snyder via OE Sent: Friday, July 25, 2025 7:49 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: Karen Snyder <karen.snyder10@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Following up on my earlier "bomb" I don’t know anyone who would not feel pain in hearing about the negative events of the past that have been rehearsed. It is hard to know what it means to repent and turn away from those mistakes in 2025. They are reminders of many mistakes we made in our experimentation on ourselves. I have often thought as a community of learning, we were no different than society; we were just the intensification of it. Our community had to create responses to issues just as others in society had to figure out for themselves in their families and communities. Around 2022 a Junior High page was created on the ICA Global Archives website in an attempt to share ICA intents, experiences and what we learned: <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://icaglobalarchives.org/collections/imaginal-education/demonstrations1/applications/junior-high-education-2/&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754099338000000&usg=AOvVaw0ll1S1wiJcHMHg1xL39B08> https://icaglobalarchives.org/collections/imaginal-education/demonstrations1.... I found it helpful to re-read the writings recently, especially the Student House experience. <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21616.pdf&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754099338000000&usg=AOvVaw1x-UV6j81hKw-gbCLjK4MK> Patricia Scott’s interviews of youth in 1970 are particularly revealing. There are the Student House documents (the <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/8676.pdf&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754099338000000&usg=AOvVaw2_jNjNvrfSDWNrdXH70zkQ> Manual of Operations (1980) and the <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21911.pdf&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754099338000000&usg=AOvVaw0dqTGpPQodo7dSrcSwdkcg> Student House Yearbook: Telling Our Story 1981-1982). <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/20286.pdf&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754099338000000&usg=AOvVaw37vnz71xqX0N3AEfnc30qb> Fred and Nancy Lanphear tell stories of three years leading Student and High School Houses 1980-82. The <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21644.pdf&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754099338000000&usg=AOvVaw1dNUJaNnzPhfNQ_JKWhUz9> Celebration 10 piece celebrated 10 years of the Student House, July 1983. What I most appreciate about these documents is that they acknowledge both gifts and challenges, strengths and weaknesses of years of learning about what it means to care for youth. Perhaps the writings will shed light on the multiple perspectives, intents and experiences of those experimental years. Peace and love, Karen Snyder Troxel (who interned in the College House in 1966) On Jul 24, 2025, at 2:54 PM, Mary Combs via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> > wrote: Thank you, Shelley, for your sharing and willingness to be vulnerable in expression of your truth. My heart goes out to you for your courage and for that suffering. I have only just joined this list and am so grateful to see this kind of healing interaction taking place. The OE was life changing for me and my family, before, during and after. My dad and mom, Braxton & Marge Combs, were students of Joseph Matthews at SMU/Perkins in Dallas and he visited us many times in California where they moved for their ministry. We were in 5th City in the summer of ‘67, lived in Religious House in San Francisco in the early 70’s, my parents lived in the Paris House while I was in (the first?) Student House in ‘73-74. We left and my parents went back to work in the local church in California. Talk about culture shock! Later, to try to make some sense of it, I attended Academy in Chicago and did a paper on the progress in 5th City for college. My husband attended Academy in Belgium in ‘83. More recently, I was (luckily- thanks Julianne!) found on FB and joined that group list in time to join the 2G reunion in Bloomington. I just got David’s book and am enjoying starting to read it. Connecting with all of you feels like opening a special gift I didn’t realize I needed. So many rich memories! So much to process. What I know for sure is this: Our OE founders and leaders and our parent’s who joined created a vision for the future that was(is) so profound and radical and, just the fact they did so, that’s still super hopeful for me, especially considering where our world is now. It is still relevant and worthy of celebrating, but the deep sharing and healing from within that must also continue. The story is still being written! Big Love to all, Mary Combs Aptos, CA Sent from my iPhone On Jul 23, 2025, at 10:41 AM, Shelley Hahn via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> > wrote: It’s been a few weeks since I dropped a bomb on one of the threads here. It wasn’t my intention to just go silent. Immediately after my post my attention was snatched by a flooded basement, two sick pets, and the need for some changes in my Mom’s care. (All is fine on all fronts now.) After that there had been so much rich conversation and dialogue that I felt overwhelmed at the prospect of responding in an articulate and meaningful way; I got paralyzed. Karen Snyder broke through my paralysis when she contacted me last week to talk about a witness I gave in 1983 (I was 22) about Celebration 10, a Student House reunion/gathering. After talking with Karen I decided I just need to write SOMETHING, even if I don’t have all my thoughts and feelings sorted out. I have no illusions that I can tell my whole story in one piece of writing. (Marsha spent months writing her reflections; I think David Marshall spent 20ish (?) years writing “Iron Boy.”) Today, my only intention is to write from my heart, to tell some pieces of my experience, my truth. Bear with me if I ramble a bit; if I let my inner critic get too involved, I’ll never post anything. 😊 So … in no particular order: ~ Starting with the bomb I dropped a few weeks back … I was sexually molested by the first prior in the house I was assigned to when I was in 7th grade. I think that person left the Order not too long after that, and I am almost certain he has died by now. I pushed that experience and the memories down for many years and finally faced them when I was in my late 20s. Therapy and conversations with the people closest to me helped me process, heal and move forward. Even so, as with any powerful life experience, the experience shapes one, becomes part of one’s fiber, woven in. The experience does not define me. It also cannot un-happen. ~ I live with an interesting paradox at my center. Unlike many of my 2nd Generation peers, I have never wished I had a different life than I had growing up. I have many very fond memories from my life in the Order, which started when I was 3 years old. I have always been grateful for the many gifts that came with that life: community; a big extended family with scores of extra brothers and sisters and lifelong friendships; a global perspective; a trained intellect; a profound understanding of and care about the injustices in the world. There are many others. At the same time, there is just as much that makes me sad and angry. I could start right there—emotions. The Order was intellectually brilliant … and largely devoid of heart and compassion. Love is not just a structural approach; it is also a human emotion (and I’m not just talking about romantic love). From my perspective, emotion wasn’t just ignored it was considered weak, wrong, unhelpful … put down and squelched. What a loss for all of us. And to return to one of the central pieces of recent discussion … in my opinion, separating families and not TRULY caring for children and youth was a HUGE mistake. I’ve always felt my parents’ love and I’ve always loved them powerfully, and when my father died I was devastated to realize how few actual memories I had of time with him before my parents moved to Bloomington when I was 43 and he was 73. Would there have been hard times and “bad” memories if we’d been together all those years? Of course! That doesn't change that I was denied years of connection with my parents. How sad that at some point the decision was made to take “family” out of “family order.” There’s a lot more I could say about good and bad, pro and con, but it’s more than I am up to at the moment. Perhaps the main point I want to make is that acknowledging mistakes doesn’t mean there was no good, no value. I am a product of all of it. ~ Back to my appreciation of our community: I have ALWAYS been so grateful for my Order family. I have wonderful memories of SO many of you! I remember the Marshalls and Hahns all going out for dinner in our VW beetle (yes, there were 10 of us!) one family night. The Barleys took me in as family and cared for me exquisitely for three months when I was in 4th grade when my parents first went to England. The Wainwrights and Baileys were my family in Santa Monica, the Averys and Bonnells (before Clare was even a Bonnell 😊) in England. Alfrieda Wilkins was my guardian when I was in high school and did a stellar job in a difficult role—big sister, friend, mentor. Martha Laird was assigned to oversee our youth cluster at Kemper when I was 16 or 17 and we all adored her (she got off easy with a fairly responsible bunch 😊). Bob Rafos was my surrogate dad when I was 18 and largely lost. Seeing so many of your faces and hearing your words during my father’s Zoom memorial service was the greatest gift I could have received at that painful time. I could go on and on. I am SO GRATEFUL for this bunch of human beings. Get ready for the emotion: I have real love for so many of you. This is my truth just as much as the truth that I was molested as a child. ~ And I have to address this separately: I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE my 2nd Generation family. I have a weekly breakfast with Tamara McClelland and Jane St. John. Yesterday as we walked to our favorite haunt, Jane said, “WE are the greatest gift we got from the Order.” “We” meaning all of us who grew up in the Order, in all of the different iterations and phases, with all the attendant joys and pains. She is right. The love and connection we share with one another is big and intense and powerful. Three weeks ago my husband and I drove to Chicago for a get together with Mark & Cari (Boivin) Jewell, Pat (Boivin) and Tom Price, David Allan and his wife, Susan, Chris Boivin, and Sharon Rafos. Chris & I realized we hadn’t seen each other in 35 years. It didn’t matter. >From the instant that we all greeted each other it was as if not a week had passed. We support each other. We get each other. We celebrate each other. We listen to each other. Our reunions are fantastic. Big love. And I want to say as carefully and gently as I can: a big part of why we are so tight is that we get each other’s pain. Many of my peers say we came out as well as we did in spite of the Order, not because of it. Speaking for myself, I believe it’s a mix. But I think I can guarantee that none of us feel that the ends justify the means when it comes to the mistakes that were made with regard to how we were raised. That’s about as much as I have energy for right now. I mentioned that Karen Snyder contacted me about a witness I did in 1983. Wow! Karen asked for my permission to share that piece from the archives. On reflection, I don’t want to share that without also taking time to do a re-write from my 64-year-old perspective. Perhaps you’ll be seeing that in the not-too-distant future. A number of you reached out to me after my very short post a few weeks back. Please forgive me for not responding to you individually sooner. I do intend to get back to each of you soon, now that my heart and mind have settled a bit. Thanks to everyone for being out there. Thank you for “listening.” Thank you for being part of an important dialogue With love and respect, Shelley Hahn _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net -- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you
Hi Bill, I appreciated your comments and fully agree with them. I have vague memories of you, George Holcomb and I in Room A in 1967, 68 or...? We were part of a think-tank on the new social vehicle and the three of us were a small group. I recall us imagining the NSV being like a matrix or net; each individual cell was autonomous and self-reliant, yet reciprocally connected to the whole. Thus, able to draw upon the resources of the whole as needed. We named the connecting process something like "complex simplification." (Actually, I think these - and other - insights did show up in our HDP designs.) Does this strike a bell with you? If so, do you recall it differently or have any related reflections. I'm currently in a writing project and am exploring the contours of resilient community. Hope you're both well and enjoying life in El Paso (one of the cities I'd be willing to live in, if forced to relocate). James Addington
On 07/26/2025 2:48 AM PDT Bill Schlesinger via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
I remember that the College House closed in ’67? I came into the ‘Seminarian’s’ something or other then. My memory of myself was pretty clueless! It was an experiment – and there were learnings that were sometimes hard bought in ways we’d rather not repeat. That said, ‘new mindedness’ in 2025 is recognizing and responding to the presence of trauma in ourselves and our children that came from those experiments. Fearing that pain as attack on us or what we did is a signal that we’re holding onto an a world of ‘justification’ (a la Bonhoeffer) in ourselves, and that’s a fragile perspective … Balloon busting even.
FWIW
Bill Schlesinger
Transition Consultant
Project Vida
www.pvida.net
3607 Rivera Avenue
El Paso TX 79905
(915) 490-6148 Cell
From: OE <oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> On Behalf Of Karen Snyder via OE Sent: Friday, July 25, 2025 7:49 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: Karen Snyder <karen.snyder10@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Following up on my earlier "bomb"
I don’t know anyone who would not feel pain in hearing about the negative events of the past that have been rehearsed. It is hard to know what it means to repent and turn away from those mistakes in 2025. They are reminders of many mistakes we made in our experimentation on ourselves. I have often thought as a community of learning, we were no different than society; we were just the intensification of it. Our community had to create responses to issues just as others in society had to figure out for themselves in their families and communities.
Around 2022 a Junior High page was created on the ICA Global Archives website in an attempt to share ICA intents, experiences and what we learned: https://icaglobalarchives.org/collections/imaginal-education/demonstrations1... https://www.google.com/url?q=https://icaglobalarchives.org/collections/imaginal-education/demonstrations1/applications/junior-high-education-2/&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754099338000000&usg=AOvVaw0ll1S1wiJcHMHg1xL39B08. I found it helpful to re-read the writings recently, especially the Student House experience. Patricia Scott’s https://www.google.com/url?q=https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21616.pdf&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754099338000000&usg=AOvVaw1x-UV6j81hKw-gbCLjK4MK interviews of youth in 1970 are particularly revealing. There are the Student House documents (the Manual of Operations https://www.google.com/url?q=https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/8676.pdf&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754099338000000&usg=AOvVaw2_jNjNvrfSDWNrdXH70zkQ (1980) and the Student House Yearbook: Telling Our Story 1981-1982 https://www.google.com/url?q=https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21911.pdf&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754099338000000&usg=AOvVaw0dqTGpPQodo7dSrcSwdkcg). Fred and Nancy Lanphear https://www.google.com/url?q=https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/20286.pdf&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754099338000000&usg=AOvVaw37vnz71xqX0N3AEfnc30qb tell stories of three years leading Student and High School Houses 1980-82. The Celebration 10 https://www.google.com/url?q=https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21644.pdf&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754099338000000&usg=AOvVaw1dNUJaNnzPhfNQ_JKWhUz9 piece celebrated 10 years of the Student House, July 1983.
What I most appreciate about these documents is that they acknowledge both gifts and challenges, strengths and weaknesses of years of learning about what it means to care for youth. Perhaps the writings will shed light on the multiple perspectives, intents and experiences of those experimental years.
Peace and love, Karen Snyder Troxel (who interned in the College House in 1966)
On Jul 24, 2025, at 2:54 PM, Mary Combs via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Thank you, Shelley, for your sharing and willingness to be vulnerable in expression of your truth. My heart goes out to you for your courage and for that suffering. I have only just joined this list and am so grateful to see this kind of healing interaction taking place. The OE was life changing for me and my family, before, during and after. My dad and mom, Braxton & Marge Combs, were students of Joseph Matthews at SMU/Perkins in Dallas and he visited us many times in California where they moved for their ministry. We were in 5th City in the summer of ‘67, lived in Religious House in San Francisco in the early 70’s, my parents lived in the Paris House while I was in (the first?) Student House in ‘73-74. We left and my parents went back to work in the local church in California. Talk about culture shock! Later, to try to make some sense of it, I attended Academy in Chicago and did a paper on the progress in 5th City for college. My husband attended Academy in Belgium in ‘83. More recently, I was (luckily- thanks Julianne!) found on FB and joined that group list in time to join the 2G reunion in Bloomington. I just got David’s book and am enjoying starting to read it. Connecting with all of you feels like opening a special gift I didn’t realize I needed. So many rich memories! So much to process.
What I know for sure is this: Our OE founders and leaders and our parent’s who joined created a vision for the future that was(is) so profound and radical and, just the fact they did so, that’s still super hopeful for me, especially considering where our world is now. It is still relevant and worthy of celebrating, but the deep sharing and healing from within that must also continue. The story is still being written!
Big Love to all,
Mary Combs
Aptos, CA
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 23, 2025, at 10:41 AM, Shelley Hahn via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
It’s been a few weeks since I dropped a bomb on one of the threads here. It wasn’t my intention to just go silent. Immediately after my post my attention was snatched by a flooded basement, two sick pets, and the need for some changes in my Mom’s care. (All is fine on all fronts now.) After that there had been so much rich conversation and dialogue that I felt overwhelmed at the prospect of responding in an articulate and meaningful way; I got paralyzed. Karen Snyder broke through my paralysis when she contacted me last week to talk about a witness I gave in 1983 (I was 22) about Celebration 10, a Student House reunion/gathering. After talking with Karen I decided I just need to write SOMETHING, even if I don’t have all my thoughts and feelings sorted out. I have no illusions that I can tell my whole story in one piece of writing. (Marsha spent months writing her reflections; I think David Marshall spent 20ish (?) years writing “Iron Boy.”) Today, my only intention is to write from my heart, to tell some pieces of my experience, my truth. Bear with me if I ramble a bit; if I let my inner critic get too involved, I’ll never post anything. 😊 So … in no particular order:
~ Starting with the bomb I dropped a few weeks back … I was sexually molested by the first prior in the house I was assigned to when I was in 7th grade. I think that person left the Order not too long after that, and I am almost certain he has died by now. I pushed that experience and the memories down for many years and finally faced them when I was in my late 20s. Therapy and conversations with the people closest to me helped me process, heal and move forward. Even so, as with any powerful life experience, the experience shapes one, becomes part of one’s fiber, woven in. The experience does not define me. It also cannot un-happen.
~ I live with an interesting paradox at my center. Unlike many of my 2nd Generation peers, I have never wished I had a different life than I had growing up. I have many very fond memories from my life in the Order, which started when I was 3 years old. I have always been grateful for the many gifts that came with that life: community; a big extended family with scores of extra brothers and sisters and lifelong friendships; a global perspective; a trained intellect; a profound understanding of and care about the injustices in the world. There are many others. At the same time, there is just as much that makes me sad and angry. I could start right there—emotions. The Order was intellectually brilliant … and largely devoid of heart and compassion. Love is not just a structural approach; it is also a human emotion (and I’m not just talking about romantic love). From my perspective, emotion wasn’t just ignored it was considered weak, wrong, unhelpful … put down and squelched. What a loss for all of us. And to return to one of the central pieces of recent discussion … in my opinion, separating families and not TRULY caring for children and youth was a HUGE mistake. I’ve always felt my parents’ love and I’ve always loved them powerfully, and when my father died I was devastated to realize how few actual memories I had of time with him before my parents moved to Bloomington when I was 43 and he was 73. Would there have been hard times and “bad” memories if we’d been together all those years? Of course! That doesn't change that I was denied years of connection with my parents. How sad that at some point the decision was made to take “family” out of “family order.” There’s a lot more I could say about good and bad, pro and con, but it’s more than I am up to at the moment. Perhaps the main point I want to make is that acknowledging mistakes doesn’t mean there was no good, no value. I am a product of all of it.
~ Back to my appreciation of our community: I have ALWAYS been so grateful for my Order family. I have wonderful memories of SO many of you! I remember the Marshalls and Hahns all going out for dinner in our VW beetle (yes, there were 10 of us!) one family night. The Barleys took me in as family and cared for me exquisitely for three months when I was in 4th grade when my parents first went to England. The Wainwrights and Baileys were my family in Santa Monica, the Averys and Bonnells (before Clare was even a Bonnell 😊) in England. Alfrieda Wilkins was my guardian when I was in high school and did a stellar job in a difficult role—big sister, friend, mentor. Martha Laird was assigned to oversee our youth cluster at Kemper when I was 16 or 17 and we all adored her (she got off easy with a fairly responsible bunch 😊). Bob Rafos was my surrogate dad when I was 18 and largely lost. Seeing so many of your faces and hearing your words during my father’s Zoom memorial service was the greatest gift I could have received at that painful time. I could go on and on. I am SO GRATEFUL for this bunch of human beings. Get ready for the emotion: I have real love for so many of you. This is my truth just as much as the truth that I was molested as a child.
~ And I have to address this separately: I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE my 2nd Generation family. I have a weekly breakfast with Tamara McClelland and Jane St. John. Yesterday as we walked to our favorite haunt, Jane said, “WE are the greatest gift we got from the Order.” “We” meaning all of us who grew up in the Order, in all of the different iterations and phases, with all the attendant joys and pains. She is right. The love and connection we share with one another is big and intense and powerful. Three weeks ago my husband and I drove to Chicago for a get together with Mark & Cari (Boivin) Jewell, Pat (Boivin) and Tom Price, David Allan and his wife, Susan, Chris Boivin, and Sharon Rafos. Chris & I realized we hadn’t seen each other in 35 years. It didn’t matter. From the instant that we all greeted each other it was as if not a week had passed. We support each other. We get each other. We celebrate each other. We listen to each other. Our reunions are fantastic. Big love. And I want to say as carefully and gently as I can: a big part of why we are so tight is that we get each other’s pain. Many of my peers say we came out as well as we did in spite of the Order, not because of it. Speaking for myself, I believe it’s a mix. But I think I can guarantee that none of us feel that the ends justify the means when it comes to the mistakes that were made with regard to how we were raised.
That’s about as much as I have energy for right now. I mentioned that Karen Snyder contacted me about a witness I did in 1983. Wow! Karen asked for my permission to share that piece from the archives. On reflection, I don’t want to share that without also taking time to do a re-write from my 64-year-old perspective. Perhaps you’ll be seeing that in the not-too-distant future.
A number of you reached out to me after my very short post a few weeks back. Please forgive me for not responding to you individually sooner. I do intend to get back to each of you soon, now that my heart and mind have settled a bit.
Thanks to everyone for being out there. Thank you for “listening.” Thank you for being part of an important dialogue
With love and respect,
Shelley Hahn
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Hi Bill, I remember when Joe and I visited your Mom — in an attempt to context her about what the EI was about. She was very uneasy and uninformed and worried about what you were choosing to do with you life. Joe, as always, was so good at assuring and explaining authentically. As I recall, all was well with you being in the EI/OE after that. Marilyn
On Jul 26, 2025, at 5:48 AM, Bill Schlesinger via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
I remember that the College House closed in ’67? I came into the ‘Seminarian’s’ something or other then. My memory of myself was pretty clueless! It was an experiment – and there were learnings that were sometimes hard bought in ways we’d rather not repeat. That said, ‘new mindedness’ in 2025 is recognizing and responding to the presence of trauma in ourselves and our children that came from those experiments. Fearing that pain as attack on us or what we did is a signal that we’re holding onto an a world of ‘justification’ (a la Bonhoeffer) in ourselves, and that’s a fragile perspective … Balloon busting even.
FWIW
Bill Schlesinger Transition Consultant Project Vida www.pvida.net <http://www.pvida.net/> 3607 Rivera Avenue El Paso TX 79905 (915) 490-6148 Cell
From: OE <oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net>> On Behalf Of Karen Snyder via OE Sent: Friday, July 25, 2025 7:49 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> Cc: Karen Snyder <karen.snyder10@gmail.com <mailto:karen.snyder10@gmail.com>> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Following up on my earlier "bomb"
I don’t know anyone who would not feel pain in hearing about the negative events of the past that have been rehearsed. It is hard to know what it means to repent and turn away from those mistakes in 2025. They are reminders of many mistakes we made in our experimentation on ourselves. I have often thought as a community of learning, we were no different than society; we were just the intensification of it. Our community had to create responses to issues just as others in society had to figure out for themselves in their families and communities.
Around 2022 a Junior High page was created on the ICA Global Archives website in an attempt to share ICA intents, experiences and what we learned: https://icaglobalarchives.org/collections/imaginal-education/demonstrations1... <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://icaglobalarchives.org/collections/imaginal-education/demonstrations1/applications/junior-high-education-2/&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754099338000000&usg=AOvVaw0ll1S1wiJcHMHg1xL39B08>. I found it helpful to re-read the writings recently, especially the Student House experience. Patricia Scott’s <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21616.pdf&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754099338000000&usg=AOvVaw1x-UV6j81hKw-gbCLjK4MK> interviews of youth in 1970 are particularly revealing. There are the Student House documents (the Manual of Operations <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/8676.pdf&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754099338000000&usg=AOvVaw2_jNjNvrfSDWNrdXH70zkQ> (1980) and the Student House Yearbook: Telling Our Story 1981-1982 <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21911.pdf&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754099338000000&usg=AOvVaw0dqTGpPQodo7dSrcSwdkcg>). Fred and Nancy Lanphear <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/20286.pdf&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754099338000000&usg=AOvVaw37vnz71xqX0N3AEfnc30qb> tell stories of three years leading Student and High School Houses 1980-82. The Celebration 10 <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21644.pdf&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754099338000000&usg=AOvVaw1dNUJaNnzPhfNQ_JKWhUz9> piece celebrated 10 years of the Student House, July 1983.
What I most appreciate about these documents is that they acknowledge both gifts and challenges, strengths and weaknesses of years of learning about what it means to care for youth. Perhaps the writings will shed light on the multiple perspectives, intents and experiences of those experimental years.
Peace and love, Karen Snyder Troxel (who interned in the College House in 1966)
On Jul 24, 2025, at 2:54 PM, Mary Combs via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
Thank you, Shelley, for your sharing and willingness to be vulnerable in expression of your truth. My heart goes out to you for your courage and for that suffering. I have only just joined this list and am so grateful to see this kind of healing interaction taking place. The OE was life changing for me and my family, before, during and after. My dad and mom, Braxton & Marge Combs, were students of Joseph Matthews at SMU/Perkins in Dallas and he visited us many times in California where they moved for their ministry. We were in 5th City in the summer of ‘67, lived in Religious House in San Francisco in the early 70’s, my parents lived in the Paris House while I was in (the first?) Student House in ‘73-74. We left and my parents went back to work in the local church in California. Talk about culture shock! Later, to try to make some sense of it, I attended Academy in Chicago and did a paper on the progress in 5th City for college. My husband attended Academy in Belgium in ‘83. More recently, I was (luckily- thanks Julianne!) found on FB and joined that group list in time to join the 2G reunion in Bloomington. I just got David’s book and am enjoying starting to read it. Connecting with all of you feels like opening a special gift I didn’t realize I needed. So many rich memories! So much to process. What I know for sure is this: Our OE founders and leaders and our parent’s who joined created a vision for the future that was(is) so profound and radical and, just the fact they did so, that’s still super hopeful for me, especially considering where our world is now. It is still relevant and worthy of celebrating, but the deep sharing and healing from within that must also continue. The story is still being written! Big Love to all, Mary Combs Aptos, CA
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 23, 2025, at 10:41 AM, Shelley Hahn via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
It’s been a few weeks since I dropped a bomb on one of the threads here. It wasn’t my intention to just go silent. Immediately after my post my attention was snatched by a flooded basement, two sick pets, and the need for some changes in my Mom’s care. (All is fine on all fronts now.) After that there had been so much rich conversation and dialogue that I felt overwhelmed at the prospect of responding in an articulate and meaningful way; I got paralyzed. Karen Snyder broke through my paralysis when she contacted me last week to talk about a witness I gave in 1983 (I was 22) about Celebration 10, a Student House reunion/gathering. After talking with Karen I decided I just need to write SOMETHING, even if I don’t have all my thoughts and feelings sorted out. I have no illusions that I can tell my whole story in one piece of writing. (Marsha spent months writing her reflections; I think David Marshall spent 20ish (?) years writing “Iron Boy.”) Today, my only intention is to write from my heart, to tell some pieces of my experience, my truth. Bear with me if I ramble a bit; if I let my inner critic get too involved, I’ll never post anything. 😊 So … in no particular order:
~ Starting with the bomb I dropped a few weeks back … I was sexually molested by the first prior in the house I was assigned to when I was in 7th grade. I think that person left the Order not too long after that, and I am almost certain he has died by now. I pushed that experience and the memories down for many years and finally faced them when I was in my late 20s. Therapy and conversations with the people closest to me helped me process, heal and move forward. Even so, as with any powerful life experience, the experience shapes one, becomes part of one’s fiber, woven in. The experience does not define me. It also cannot un-happen.
~ I live with an interesting paradox at my center. Unlike many of my 2nd Generation peers, I have never wished I had a different life than I had growing up. I have many very fond memories from my life in the Order, which started when I was 3 years old. I have always been grateful for the many gifts that came with that life: community; a big extended family with scores of extra brothers and sisters and lifelong friendships; a global perspective; a trained intellect; a profound understanding of and care about the injustices in the world. There are many others. At the same time, there is just as much that makes me sad and angry. I could start right there—emotions. The Order was intellectually brilliant … and largely devoid of heart and compassion. Love is not just a structural approach; it is also a human emotion (and I’m not just talking about romantic love). From my perspective, emotion wasn’t just ignored it was considered weak, wrong, unhelpful … put down and squelched. What a loss for all of us. And to return to one of the central pieces of recent discussion … in my opinion, separating families and not TRULY caring for children and youth was a HUGE mistake. I’ve always felt my parents’ love and I’ve always loved them powerfully, and when my father died I was devastated to realize how few actual memories I had of time with him before my parents moved to Bloomington when I was 43 and he was 73. Would there have been hard times and “bad” memories if we’d been together all those years? Of course! That doesn't change that I was denied years of connection with my parents. How sad that at some point the decision was made to take “family” out of “family order.” There’s a lot more I could say about good and bad, pro and con, but it’s more than I am up to at the moment. Perhaps the main point I want to make is that acknowledging mistakes doesn’t mean there was no good, no value. I am a product of all of it.
~ Back to my appreciation of our community: I have ALWAYS been so grateful for my Order family. I have wonderful memories of SO many of you! I remember the Marshalls and Hahns all going out for dinner in our VW beetle (yes, there were 10 of us!) one family night. The Barleys took me in as family and cared for me exquisitely for three months when I was in 4th grade when my parents first went to England. The Wainwrights and Baileys were my family in Santa Monica, the Averys and Bonnells (before Clare was even a Bonnell 😊) in England. Alfrieda Wilkins was my guardian when I was in high school and did a stellar job in a difficult role—big sister, friend, mentor. Martha Laird was assigned to oversee our youth cluster at Kemper when I was 16 or 17 and we all adored her (she got off easy with a fairly responsible bunch 😊). Bob Rafos was my surrogate dad when I was 18 and largely lost. Seeing so many of your faces and hearing your words during my father’s Zoom memorial service was the greatest gift I could have received at that painful time. I could go on and on. I am SO GRATEFUL for this bunch of human beings. Get ready for the emotion: I have real love for so many of you. This is my truth just as much as the truth that I was molested as a child.
~ And I have to address this separately: I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE my 2nd Generation family. I have a weekly breakfast with Tamara McClelland and Jane St. John. Yesterday as we walked to our favorite haunt, Jane said, “WE are the greatest gift we got from the Order.” “We” meaning all of us who grew up in the Order, in all of the different iterations and phases, with all the attendant joys and pains. She is right. The love and connection we share with one another is big and intense and powerful. Three weeks ago my husband and I drove to Chicago for a get together with Mark & Cari (Boivin) Jewell, Pat (Boivin) and Tom Price, David Allan and his wife, Susan, Chris Boivin, and Sharon Rafos. Chris & I realized we hadn’t seen each other in 35 years. It didn’t matter. From the instant that we all greeted each other it was as if not a week had passed. We support each other. We get each other. We celebrate each other. We listen to each other. Our reunions are fantastic. Big love. And I want to say as carefully and gently as I can: a big part of why we are so tight is that we get each other’s pain. Many of my peers say we came out as well as we did in spite of the Order, not because of it. Speaking for myself, I believe it’s a mix. But I think I can guarantee that none of us feel that the ends justify the means when it comes to the mistakes that were made with regard to how we were raised.
That’s about as much as I have energy for right now. I mentioned that Karen Snyder contacted me about a witness I did in 1983. Wow! Karen asked for my permission to share that piece from the archives. On reflection, I don’t want to share that without also taking time to do a re-write from my 64-year-old perspective. Perhaps you’ll be seeing that in the not-too-distant future.
A number of you reached out to me after my very short post a few weeks back. Please forgive me for not responding to you individually sooner. I do intend to get back to each of you soon, now that my heart and mind have settled a bit.
Thanks to everyone for being out there. Thank you for “listening.” Thank you for being part of an important dialogue
With love and respect, Shelley Hahn
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CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Wow! I don’t think she talked about that visit with me! She (and my father) were concerned that my VietNam protests (mild as they were) meant that MLK had made me a ‘Communist Dupe’ as well…! I always appreciated both of you – and now I have another reason to do so! Bill From: OE <oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> On Behalf Of Mari Crocker via OE Sent: Friday, August 1, 2025 7:34 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: Mari Crocker <maricrocker@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Following up on my earlier "bomb" Hi Bill, I remember when Joe and I visited your Mom — in an attempt to context her about what the EI was about. She was very uneasy and uninformed and worried about what you were choosing to do with you life. Joe, as always, was so good at assuring and explaining authentically. As I recall, all was well with you being in the EI/OE after that. Marilyn On Jul 26, 2025, at 5:48 AM, Bill Schlesinger via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> > wrote: I remember that the College House closed in ’67? I came into the ‘Seminarian’s’ something or other then. My memory of myself was pretty clueless! It was an experiment – and there were learnings that were sometimes hard bought in ways we’d rather not repeat. That said, ‘new mindedness’ in 2025 is recognizing and responding to the presence of trauma in ourselves and our children that came from those experiments. Fearing that pain as attack on us or what we did is a signal that we’re holding onto an a world of ‘justification’ (a la Bonhoeffer) in ourselves, and that’s a fragile perspective … Balloon busting even. FWIW Bill Schlesinger Transition Consultant Project Vida <https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.pvida.net/&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754703287000000&usg=AOvVaw14SpkMf57dJEq9SmoB7yuZ> www.pvida.net 3607 Rivera Avenue El Paso TX 79905 (915) 490-6148 Cell From: OE < <mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> On Behalf Of Karen Snyder via OE Sent: Friday, July 25, 2025 7:49 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community < <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: Karen Snyder < <mailto:karen.snyder10@gmail.com> karen.snyder10@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Following up on my earlier "bomb" I don’t know anyone who would not feel pain in hearing about the negative events of the past that have been rehearsed. It is hard to know what it means to repent and turn away from those mistakes in 2025. They are reminders of many mistakes we made in our experimentation on ourselves. I have often thought as a community of learning, we were no different than society; we were just the intensification of it. Our community had to create responses to issues just as others in society had to figure out for themselves in their families and communities. Around 2022 a Junior High page was created on the ICA Global Archives website in an attempt to share ICA intents, experiences and what we learned: <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://icaglobalarchives.org/collections/imaginal-education/demonstrations1/applications/junior-high-education-2/%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1754099338000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw0ll1S1wiJcHMHg1xL39B08&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754703287000000&usg=AOvVaw29Z8AQEGSy7yLTlQwXUZBF> https://icaglobalarchives.org/collections/imaginal-education/demonstrations1.... I found it helpful to re-read the writings recently, especially the Student House experience. <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21616.pdf%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1754099338000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw1x-UV6j81hKw-gbCLjK4MK&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754703287000000&usg=AOvVaw0GclSzjr1Jr-9QTcCTjRoV> Patricia Scott’s interviews of youth in 1970 are particularly revealing. There are the Student House documents (the <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/8676.pdf%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1754099338000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw2_jNjNvrfSDWNrdXH70zkQ&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754703287000000&usg=AOvVaw3Ce1XkV6Z5SGhdDKUESskh> Manual of Operations (1980) and the <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21911.pdf%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1754099338000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw0dqTGpPQodo7dSrcSwdkcg&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754703287000000&usg=AOvVaw1X1HlTrtxBNRKq-o3hSO69> Student House Yearbook: Telling Our Story 1981-1982). <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/20286.pdf%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1754099338000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw37vnz71xqX0N3AEfnc30qb&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754703287000000&usg=AOvVaw1E7mSlQc_8D7muGWEB5GpA> Fred and Nancy Lanphear tell stories of three years leading Student and High School Houses 1980-82. The <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21644.pdf%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1754099338000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw1dNUJaNnzPhfNQ_JKWhUz9&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754703287000000&usg=AOvVaw1NxOrhT2sKFnG_N85B5u0S> Celebration 10 piece celebrated 10 years of the Student House, July 1983. What I most appreciate about these documents is that they acknowledge both gifts and challenges, strengths and weaknesses of years of learning about what it means to care for youth. Perhaps the writings will shed light on the multiple perspectives, intents and experiences of those experimental years. Peace and love, Karen Snyder Troxel (who interned in the College House in 1966) On Jul 24, 2025, at 2:54 PM, Mary Combs via OE < <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Thank you, Shelley, for your sharing and willingness to be vulnerable in expression of your truth. My heart goes out to you for your courage and for that suffering. I have only just joined this list and am so grateful to see this kind of healing interaction taking place. The OE was life changing for me and my family, before, during and after. My dad and mom, Braxton & Marge Combs, were students of Joseph Matthews at SMU/Perkins in Dallas and he visited us many times in California where they moved for their ministry. We were in 5th City in the summer of ‘67, lived in Religious House in San Francisco in the early 70’s, my parents lived in the Paris House while I was in (the first?) Student House in ‘73-74. We left and my parents went back to work in the local church in California. Talk about culture shock! Later, to try to make some sense of it, I attended Academy in Chicago and did a paper on the progress in 5th City for college. My husband attended Academy in Belgium in ‘83. More recently, I was (luckily- thanks Julianne!) found on FB and joined that group list in time to join the 2G reunion in Bloomington. I just got David’s book and am enjoying starting to read it. Connecting with all of you feels like opening a special gift I didn’t realize I needed. So many rich memories! So much to process. What I know for sure is this: Our OE founders and leaders and our parent’s who joined created a vision for the future that was(is) so profound and radical and, just the fact they did so, that’s still super hopeful for me, especially considering where our world is now. It is still relevant and worthy of celebrating, but the deep sharing and healing from within that must also continue. The story is still being written! Big Love to all, Mary Combs Aptos, CA Sent from my iPhone On Jul 23, 2025, at 10:41 AM, Shelley Hahn via OE < <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: It’s been a few weeks since I dropped a bomb on one of the threads here. It wasn’t my intention to just go silent. Immediately after my post my attention was snatched by a flooded basement, two sick pets, and the need for some changes in my Mom’s care. (All is fine on all fronts now.) After that there had been so much rich conversation and dialogue that I felt overwhelmed at the prospect of responding in an articulate and meaningful way; I got paralyzed. Karen Snyder broke through my paralysis when she contacted me last week to talk about a witness I gave in 1983 (I was 22) about Celebration 10, a Student House reunion/gathering. After talking with Karen I decided I just need to write SOMETHING, even if I don’t have all my thoughts and feelings sorted out. I have no illusions that I can tell my whole story in one piece of writing. (Marsha spent months writing her reflections; I think David Marshall spent 20ish (?) years writing “Iron Boy.”) Today, my only intention is to write from my heart, to tell some pieces of my experience, my truth. Bear with me if I ramble a bit; if I let my inner critic get too involved, I’ll never post anything. 😊 So … in no particular order: ~ Starting with the bomb I dropped a few weeks back … I was sexually molested by the first prior in the house I was assigned to when I was in 7th grade. I think that person left the Order not too long after that, and I am almost certain he has died by now. I pushed that experience and the memories down for many years and finally faced them when I was in my late 20s. Therapy and conversations with the people closest to me helped me process, heal and move forward. Even so, as with any powerful life experience, the experience shapes one, becomes part of one’s fiber, woven in. The experience does not define me. It also cannot un-happen. ~ I live with an interesting paradox at my center. Unlike many of my 2nd Generation peers, I have never wished I had a different life than I had growing up. I have many very fond memories from my life in the Order, which started when I was 3 years old. I have always been grateful for the many gifts that came with that life: community; a big extended family with scores of extra brothers and sisters and lifelong friendships; a global perspective; a trained intellect; a profound understanding of and care about the injustices in the world. There are many others. At the same time, there is just as much that makes me sad and angry. I could start right there—emotions. The Order was intellectually brilliant … and largely devoid of heart and compassion. Love is not just a structural approach; it is also a human emotion (and I’m not just talking about romantic love). From my perspective, emotion wasn’t just ignored it was considered weak, wrong, unhelpful … put down and squelched. What a loss for all of us. And to return to one of the central pieces of recent discussion … in my opinion, separating families and not TRULY caring for children and youth was a HUGE mistake. I’ve always felt my parents’ love and I’ve always loved them powerfully, and when my father died I was devastated to realize how few actual memories I had of time with him before my parents moved to Bloomington when I was 43 and he was 73. Would there have been hard times and “bad” memories if we’d been together all those years? Of course! That doesn't change that I was denied years of connection with my parents. How sad that at some point the decision was made to take “family” out of “family order.” There’s a lot more I could say about good and bad, pro and con, but it’s more than I am up to at the moment. Perhaps the main point I want to make is that acknowledging mistakes doesn’t mean there was no good, no value. I am a product of all of it. ~ Back to my appreciation of our community: I have ALWAYS been so grateful for my Order family. I have wonderful memories of SO many of you! I remember the Marshalls and Hahns all going out for dinner in our VW beetle (yes, there were 10 of us!) one family night. The Barleys took me in as family and cared for me exquisitely for three months when I was in 4th grade when my parents first went to England. The Wainwrights and Baileys were my family in Santa Monica, the Averys and Bonnells (before Clare was even a Bonnell 😊) in England. Alfrieda Wilkins was my guardian when I was in high school and did a stellar job in a difficult role—big sister, friend, mentor. Martha Laird was assigned to oversee our youth cluster at Kemper when I was 16 or 17 and we all adored her (she got off easy with a fairly responsible bunch 😊). Bob Rafos was my surrogate dad when I was 18 and largely lost. Seeing so many of your faces and hearing your words during my father’s Zoom memorial service was the greatest gift I could have received at that painful time. I could go on and on. I am SO GRATEFUL for this bunch of human beings. Get ready for the emotion: I have real love for so many of you. This is my truth just as much as the truth that I was molested as a child. ~ And I have to address this separately: I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE my 2nd Generation family. I have a weekly breakfast with Tamara McClelland and Jane St. John. Yesterday as we walked to our favorite haunt, Jane said, “WE are the greatest gift we got from the Order.” “We” meaning all of us who grew up in the Order, in all of the different iterations and phases, with all the attendant joys and pains. She is right. The love and connection we share with one another is big and intense and powerful. Three weeks ago my husband and I drove to Chicago for a get together with Mark & Cari (Boivin) Jewell, Pat (Boivin) and Tom Price, David Allan and his wife, Susan, Chris Boivin, and Sharon Rafos. Chris & I realized we hadn’t seen each other in 35 years. It didn’t matter. >From the instant that we all greeted each other it was as if not a week had passed. We support each other. We get each other. We celebrate each other. We listen to each other. Our reunions are fantastic. Big love. And I want to say as carefully and gently as I can: a big part of why we are so tight is that we get each other’s pain. Many of my peers say we came out as well as we did in spite of the Order, not because of it. Speaking for myself, I believe it’s a mix. But I think I can guarantee that none of us feel that the ends justify the means when it comes to the mistakes that were made with regard to how we were raised. That’s about as much as I have energy for right now. I mentioned that Karen Snyder contacted me about a witness I did in 1983. Wow! Karen asked for my permission to share that piece from the archives. On reflection, I don’t want to share that without also taking time to do a re-write from my 64-year-old perspective. Perhaps you’ll be seeing that in the not-too-distant future. A number of you reached out to me after my very short post a few weeks back. Please forgive me for not responding to you individually sooner. I do intend to get back to each of you soon, now that my heart and mind have settled a bit. Thanks to everyone for being out there. Thank you for “listening.” Thank you for being part of an important dialogue With love and respect, Shelley Hahn _______________________________________________ OE mailing list <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <https://www.google.com/url?q=http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754703287000000&usg=AOvVaw1q00mOIk0Loe9ZyhkiqCGx> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <https://www.google.com/url?q=http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754703287000000&usg=AOvVaw1q00mOIk0Loe9ZyhkiqCGx> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you_______________________________________________ OE mailing list <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <https://www.google.com/url?q=http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754703287000000&usg=AOvVaw1q00mOIk0Loe9ZyhkiqCGx> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net -- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). 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I was brought up in Absecon United Methodist Church, active in both Methodist Youth Fellowship and in college in the Methodist Student Movement. I went to seminary as a Methodist under care. I was ordained ‘Deacon’ upon graduating from CTS. I expressed my interest in social ministry. The District Superintendent took me for a ride in his car to explain to me that the Bishop would place me in a small church for five years, that I was to ‘keep my mouth shut,’ and after that there would be consideration for social ministry work. It was then I realized I was called to be Presbyterian (I was in the Rochester House at the time, and the Presbytery determined my reasons for ordination as a Presbyterian were valid, and recognized my ordination as Deacon as a change of denominational affiliation so I was not required to take ordination exams nor was my lack of language training in Greek or Hebrew an obstacle to that ordination). From: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Sent: Saturday, August 2, 2025 2:35 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: w.schlesinger@pvida.net; Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Following up on my earlier "bomb" I was never aware of parental visits as a service we offered. And Bill, were you even a Methodist? It took a summer program celebration at 4750 in 74 or so -- maybe a Cabaret for my mother to relax. My cousin Norm allowed as how our wedding, in March of 71, was the only time he had ever been escorted to and from his car by an armed security guard. Jim Wiegel “We are all time travelers journeying into the future. But let us make that future a place we want to visit. “ Stephen Hawking On Aug 2, 2025, at 10:16 AM, Bill Schlesinger via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Wow! I don’t think she talked about that visit with me! She (and my father) were concerned that my VietNam protests (mild as they were) meant that MLK had made me a ‘Communist Dupe’ as well…! I always appreciated both of you – and now I have another reason to do so! Bill From: OE <oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> > On Behalf Of Mari Crocker via OE Sent: Friday, August 1, 2025 7:34 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> > Cc: Mari Crocker <maricrocker@gmail.com <mailto:maricrocker@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Following up on my earlier "bomb" Hi Bill, I remember when Joe and I visited your Mom — in an attempt to context her about what the EI was about. She was very uneasy and uninformed and worried about what you were choosing to do with you life. Joe, as always, was so good at assuring and explaining authentically. As I recall, all was well with you being in the EI/OE after that. Marilyn On Jul 26, 2025, at 5:48 AM, Bill Schlesinger via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> > wrote: I remember that the College House closed in ’67? I came into the ‘Seminarian’s’ something or other then. My memory of myself was pretty clueless! It was an experiment – and there were learnings that were sometimes hard bought in ways we’d rather not repeat. That said, ‘new mindedness’ in 2025 is recognizing and responding to the presence of trauma in ourselves and our children that came from those experiments. Fearing that pain as attack on us or what we did is a signal that we’re holding onto an a world of ‘justification’ (a la Bonhoeffer) in ourselves, and that’s a fragile perspective … Balloon busting even. FWIW Bill Schlesinger Transition Consultant Project Vida <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttp://www.pvida.net/%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1754703287000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw14SpkMf57dJEq9SmoB7yuZ&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754771690000000&usg=AOvVaw3gQifK6uUCwyrcZTUXr-M_> www.pvida.net 3607 Rivera Avenue El Paso TX 79905 (915) 490-6148 Cell From: OE < <mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> On Behalf Of Karen Snyder via OE Sent: Friday, July 25, 2025 7:49 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community < <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: Karen Snyder < <mailto:karen.snyder10@gmail.com> karen.snyder10@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Following up on my earlier "bomb" I don’t know anyone who would not feel pain in hearing about the negative events of the past that have been rehearsed. It is hard to know what it means to repent and turn away from those mistakes in 2025. They are reminders of many mistakes we made in our experimentation on ourselves. I have often thought as a community of learning, we were no different than society; we were just the intensification of it. Our community had to create responses to issues just as others in society had to figure out for themselves in their families and communities. Around 2022 a Junior High page was created on the ICA Global Archives website in an attempt to share ICA intents, experiences and what we learned: <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.google.com/url?q%253Dhttps://icaglobalarchives.org/collections/imaginal-education/demonstrations1/applications/junior-high-education-2/%2526source%253Dgmail-imap%2526ust%253D1754099338000000%2526usg%253DAOvVaw0ll1S1wiJcHMHg1xL39B08%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1754703287000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw29Z8AQEGSy7yLTlQwXUZBF&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754771690000000&usg=AOvVaw0fNh5s_sp4fC3DOpZ1Ensw> https://icaglobalarchives.org/collections/imaginal-education/demonstrations1.... I found it helpful to re-read the writings recently, especially the Student House experience. <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.google.com/url?q%253Dhttps://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21616.pdf%2526source%253Dgmail-imap%2526ust%253D1754099338000000%2526usg%253DAOvVaw1x-UV6j81hKw-gbCLjK4MK%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1754703287000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw0GclSzjr1Jr-9QTcCTjRoV&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754771690000000&usg=AOvVaw3UWHK_DG4lXONAKeiSdJs5> Patricia Scott’s interviews of youth in 1970 are particularly revealing. There are the Student House documents (the <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.google.com/url?q%253Dhttps://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/8676.pdf%2526source%253Dgmail-imap%2526ust%253D1754099338000000%2526usg%253DAOvVaw2_jNjNvrfSDWNrdXH70zkQ%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1754703287000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw3Ce1XkV6Z5SGhdDKUESskh&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754771690000000&usg=AOvVaw0IYbOZWDG1UvywXcNhd2eM> Manual of Operations (1980) and the <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.google.com/url?q%253Dhttps://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21911.pdf%2526source%253Dgmail-imap%2526ust%253D1754099338000000%2526usg%253DAOvVaw0dqTGpPQodo7dSrcSwdkcg%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1754703287000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw1X1HlTrtxBNRKq-o3hSO69&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754771690000000&usg=AOvVaw0ATgx6Iswo0pqSwGfz0LdI> Student House Yearbook: Telling Our Story 1981-1982). <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.google.com/url?q%253Dhttps://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/20286.pdf%2526source%253Dgmail-imap%2526ust%253D1754099338000000%2526usg%253DAOvVaw37vnz71xqX0N3AEfnc30qb%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1754703287000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw1E7mSlQc_8D7muGWEB5GpA&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754771690000000&usg=AOvVaw08dpdPV0CBpdkFHC5bz9iw> Fred and Nancy Lanphear tell stories of three years leading Student and High School Houses 1980-82. The <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.google.com/url?q%253Dhttps://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21644.pdf%2526source%253Dgmail-imap%2526ust%253D1754099338000000%2526usg%253DAOvVaw1dNUJaNnzPhfNQ_JKWhUz9%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1754703287000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw1NxOrhT2sKFnG_N85B5u0S&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754771690000000&usg=AOvVaw0J0syCgUeNHLDGgQqWWutM> Celebration 10 piece celebrated 10 years of the Student House, July 1983. What I most appreciate about these documents is that they acknowledge both gifts and challenges, strengths and weaknesses of years of learning about what it means to care for youth. Perhaps the writings will shed light on the multiple perspectives, intents and experiences of those experimental years. Peace and love, Karen Snyder Troxel (who interned in the College House in 1966) On Jul 24, 2025, at 2:54 PM, Mary Combs via OE < <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Thank you, Shelley, for your sharing and willingness to be vulnerable in expression of your truth. My heart goes out to you for your courage and for that suffering. I have only just joined this list and am so grateful to see this kind of healing interaction taking place. The OE was life changing for me and my family, before, during and after. My dad and mom, Braxton & Marge Combs, were students of Joseph Matthews at SMU/Perkins in Dallas and he visited us many times in California where they moved for their ministry. We were in 5th City in the summer of ‘67, lived in Religious House in San Francisco in the early 70’s, my parents lived in the Paris House while I was in (the first?) Student House in ‘73-74. We left and my parents went back to work in the local church in California. Talk about culture shock! Later, to try to make some sense of it, I attended Academy in Chicago and did a paper on the progress in 5th City for college. My husband attended Academy in Belgium in ‘83. More recently, I was (luckily- thanks Julianne!) found on FB and joined that group list in time to join the 2G reunion in Bloomington. I just got David’s book and am enjoying starting to read it. Connecting with all of you feels like opening a special gift I didn’t realize I needed. So many rich memories! So much to process. What I know for sure is this: Our OE founders and leaders and our parent’s who joined created a vision for the future that was(is) so profound and radical and, just the fact they did so, that’s still super hopeful for me, especially considering where our world is now. It is still relevant and worthy of celebrating, but the deep sharing and healing from within that must also continue. The story is still being written! Big Love to all, Mary Combs Aptos, CA Sent from my iPhone On Jul 23, 2025, at 10:41 AM, Shelley Hahn via OE < <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: It’s been a few weeks since I dropped a bomb on one of the threads here. It wasn’t my intention to just go silent. Immediately after my post my attention was snatched by a flooded basement, two sick pets, and the need for some changes in my Mom’s care. (All is fine on all fronts now.) After that there had been so much rich conversation and dialogue that I felt overwhelmed at the prospect of responding in an articulate and meaningful way; I got paralyzed. Karen Snyder broke through my paralysis when she contacted me last week to talk about a witness I gave in 1983 (I was 22) about Celebration 10, a Student House reunion/gathering. After talking with Karen I decided I just need to write SOMETHING, even if I don’t have all my thoughts and feelings sorted out. I have no illusions that I can tell my whole story in one piece of writing. (Marsha spent months writing her reflections; I think David Marshall spent 20ish (?) years writing “Iron Boy.”) Today, my only intention is to write from my heart, to tell some pieces of my experience, my truth. Bear with me if I ramble a bit; if I let my inner critic get too involved, I’ll never post anything. 😊 So … in no particular order: ~ Starting with the bomb I dropped a few weeks back … I was sexually molested by the first prior in the house I was assigned to when I was in 7th grade. I think that person left the Order not too long after that, and I am almost certain he has died by now. I pushed that experience and the memories down for many years and finally faced them when I was in my late 20s. Therapy and conversations with the people closest to me helped me process, heal and move forward. Even so, as with any powerful life experience, the experience shapes one, becomes part of one’s fiber, woven in. The experience does not define me. It also cannot un-happen. ~ I live with an interesting paradox at my center. Unlike many of my 2nd Generation peers, I have never wished I had a different life than I had growing up. I have many very fond memories from my life in the Order, which started when I was 3 years old. I have always been grateful for the many gifts that came with that life: community; a big extended family with scores of extra brothers and sisters and lifelong friendships; a global perspective; a trained intellect; a profound understanding of and care about the injustices in the world. There are many others. At the same time, there is just as much that makes me sad and angry. I could start right there—emotions. The Order was intellectually brilliant … and largely devoid of heart and compassion. Love is not just a structural approach; it is also a human emotion (and I’m not just talking about romantic love). From my perspective, emotion wasn’t just ignored it was considered weak, wrong, unhelpful … put down and squelched. What a loss for all of us. And to return to one of the central pieces of recent discussion … in my opinion, separating families and not TRULY caring for children and youth was a HUGE mistake. I’ve always felt my parents’ love and I’ve always loved them powerfully, and when my father died I was devastated to realize how few actual memories I had of time with him before my parents moved to Bloomington when I was 43 and he was 73. Would there have been hard times and “bad” memories if we’d been together all those years? Of course! That doesn't change that I was denied years of connection with my parents. How sad that at some point the decision was made to take “family” out of “family order.” There’s a lot more I could say about good and bad, pro and con, but it’s more than I am up to at the moment. Perhaps the main point I want to make is that acknowledging mistakes doesn’t mean there was no good, no value. I am a product of all of it. ~ Back to my appreciation of our community: I have ALWAYS been so grateful for my Order family. I have wonderful memories of SO many of you! I remember the Marshalls and Hahns all going out for dinner in our VW beetle (yes, there were 10 of us!) one family night. The Barleys took me in as family and cared for me exquisitely for three months when I was in 4th grade when my parents first went to England. The Wainwrights and Baileys were my family in Santa Monica, the Averys and Bonnells (before Clare was even a Bonnell 😊) in England. Alfrieda Wilkins was my guardian when I was in high school and did a stellar job in a difficult role—big sister, friend, mentor. Martha Laird was assigned to oversee our youth cluster at Kemper when I was 16 or 17 and we all adored her (she got off easy with a fairly responsible bunch 😊). Bob Rafos was my surrogate dad when I was 18 and largely lost. Seeing so many of your faces and hearing your words during my father’s Zoom memorial service was the greatest gift I could have received at that painful time. I could go on and on. I am SO GRATEFUL for this bunch of human beings. Get ready for the emotion: I have real love for so many of you. This is my truth just as much as the truth that I was molested as a child. ~ And I have to address this separately: I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE my 2nd Generation family. I have a weekly breakfast with Tamara McClelland and Jane St. John. Yesterday as we walked to our favorite haunt, Jane said, “WE are the greatest gift we got from the Order.” “We” meaning all of us who grew up in the Order, in all of the different iterations and phases, with all the attendant joys and pains. She is right. The love and connection we share with one another is big and intense and powerful. Three weeks ago my husband and I drove to Chicago for a get together with Mark & Cari (Boivin) Jewell, Pat (Boivin) and Tom Price, David Allan and his wife, Susan, Chris Boivin, and Sharon Rafos. Chris & I realized we hadn’t seen each other in 35 years. It didn’t matter. >From the instant that we all greeted each other it was as if not a week had passed. We support each other. We get each other. We celebrate each other. We listen to each other. Our reunions are fantastic. Big love. And I want to say as carefully and gently as I can: a big part of why we are so tight is that we get each other’s pain. Many of my peers say we came out as well as we did in spite of the Order, not because of it. Speaking for myself, I believe it’s a mix. But I think I can guarantee that none of us feel that the ends justify the means when it comes to the mistakes that were made with regard to how we were raised. That’s about as much as I have energy for right now. I mentioned that Karen Snyder contacted me about a witness I did in 1983. Wow! Karen asked for my permission to share that piece from the archives. On reflection, I don’t want to share that without also taking time to do a re-write from my 64-year-old perspective. Perhaps you’ll be seeing that in the not-too-distant future. A number of you reached out to me after my very short post a few weeks back. Please forgive me for not responding to you individually sooner. I do intend to get back to each of you soon, now that my heart and mind have settled a bit. Thanks to everyone for being out there. 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Please reply to: <kenfisher1942@gmail.com <mailto:kenfisher1942@gmail.com>> Hi Folks, Longtime friend and colleague, Jeannette Hickey of Lorne de l’Acadie, our New Brunswick HDP, has a request. “Peter Fuchs was in Lorne with the ICA in the 70s. My daughter, Lisa lost touch with him a while back and would enjoy getting in touch with him again. She’s now bed-ridden and would be pleased to re-connect. Might you know someone who would know how to connect with him?” Ever grateful, Ken Ken Fisher 1070 Elizabeth Street - Box 75 Sharbot Lake ON K0H 2P0 Canada 1.613.203.0180 kenfisher1942@gmail.com <mailto:kenfisher1942@gmail.com> @klovesm.bsky.social @KandPtrail
participants (10)
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Ed Feldmanis -
Isobel and Jim -
JAMES ADDINGTON -
James Wiegel -
Karen Snyder -
Ken Fisher -
Mari Crocker -
Mary Combs -
Shelley Hahn -
w.schlesinger＠pvida.net