Dorothy Day and Joe Mathews on the Same Track
Friends and Colleagues, One of Joe's quotes, I think from the RS-1 Church Lecture, which many of you may have used from time to time, as I have, to express your frustration with the church, was "The church is a whore but she's my mother." Dorothy Day, cofounder of the Catholic Worker Movement, would have been 115 years old this month. The Catholic Church is currently in the process of canonizing her. Today I ran across an article which she wrote and published in The Catholic Worker in January of 1967 entitled "In Peace Is My Bitterness Most Bitter." In this article she is chastising some of those in the church who, among other things, had called for a "total" U.S. victory in the Viet Nam War. In that article I discovered this quote from Dorothy Day. "As to the Church... Though she is a harlot at times, she is our Mother." (Joe may well have placed the comma after the word "harlot.") Having imagined all these years that this was one of the more brazen statements Joe Mathews ever uttered, I was amazed to run across the same statement, from about that same time, from a Catholic nun. I'm not sure why this struck me as such an interesting discovery. Perhaps it is that, as I continue in the midst of my life-long love/hate relationship with institutional Christianity, I found new justification that it is a struggle worth having. Whether Joe got the quote from Dorothy Day or vice versa, or whether it was a case of two great minds using the same analogy, I thought it worth sharing with you. If anyone knows more about the history of this statement, I would interested to hear. Be well, Randy "Whatever the problem, community is the answer. There is no power greater than a community discovering what it cares about." Margaret Wheatley
Friends and Colleagues, I have reported this before. Nearly 40 years ago, while assigned to the academy for a couple of quarters, I read some essays written by Martin Heidegger. One was 'on poetry'. He described poetic utterances as coming from a place "between the no-longer and the not-yet". To me, like Bob Dylan, whose words in one song, can be a paraphrase of a 12th century French poet, charismatic geniuses can keep an unconscious file of timely metaphor ready to chairotically apply. Respectfully, Ken On 2012-11-28, at 1:43 PM, R Williams wrote: Friends and Colleagues, One of Joe's quotes, I think from the RS-1 Church Lecture, which many of you may have used from time to time, as I have, to express your frustration with the church, was "The church is a whore but she's my mother." Dorothy Day, cofounder of the Catholic Worker Movement, would have been 115 years old this month. The Catholic Church is currently in the process of canonizing her. Today I ran across an article which she wrote and published in The Catholic Worker in January of 1967 entitled "In Peace Is My Bitterness Most Bitter." In this article she is chastising some of those in the church who, among other things, had called for a "total" U.S. victory in the Viet Nam War. In that article I discovered this quote from Dorothy Day. "As to the Church... Though she is a harlot at times, she is our Mother." (Joe may well have placed the comma after the word "harlot.") Having imagined all these years that this was one of the more brazen statements Joe Mathews ever uttered, I was amazed to run across the same statement, from about that same time, from a Catholic nun. I'm not sure why this struck me as such an interesting discovery. Perhaps it is that, as I continue in the midst of my life-long love/hate relationship with institutional Christianity, I found new justification that it is a struggle worth having. Whether Joe got the quote from Dorothy Day or vice versa, or whether it was a case of two great minds using the same analogy, I thought it worth sharing with you. If anyone knows more about the history of this statement, I would interested to hear. Be well, Randy "Whatever the problem, community is the answer. There is no power greater than a community discovering what it cares about." Margaret Wheatley _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
For the record, Dorothy Day was a lay person, not a nun. My error. Randy Sent from my iPhone On Nov 28, 2012, at 2:20 PM, Ken Fisher <hkf232@gmail.com> wrote:
Friends and Colleagues,
I have reported this before.
Nearly 40 years ago, while assigned to the academy for a couple of quarters, I read some essays written by Martin Heidegger. One was 'on poetry'. He described poetic utterances as coming from a place "between the no-longer and the not-yet".
To me, like Bob Dylan, whose words in one song, can be a paraphrase of a 12th century French poet, charismatic geniuses can keep an unconscious file of timely metaphor ready to chairotically apply.
Respectfully,
Ken
On 2012-11-28, at 1:43 PM, R Williams wrote:
Friends and Colleagues,
One of Joe's quotes, I think from the RS-1 Church Lecture, which many of you may have used from time to time, as I have, to express your frustration with the church, was "The church is a whore but she's my mother."
Dorothy Day, cofounder of the Catholic Worker Movement, would have been 115 years old this month. The Catholic Church is currently in the process of canonizing her. Today I ran across an article which she wrote and published in The Catholic Worker in January of 1967 entitled "In Peace Is My Bitterness Most Bitter." In this article she is chastising some of those in the church who, among other things, had called for a "total" U.S. victory in the Viet Nam War. In that article I discovered this quote from Dorothy Day. "As to the Church... Though she is a harlot at times, she is our Mother." (Joe may well have placed the comma after the word "harlot.")
Having imagined all these years that this was one of the more brazen statements Joe Mathews ever uttered, I was amazed to run across the same statement, from about that same time, from a Catholic nun.
I'm not sure why this struck me as such an interesting discovery. Perhaps it is that, as I continue in the midst of my life-long love/hate relationship with institutional Christianity, I found new justification that it is a struggle worth having. Whether Joe got the quote from Dorothy Day or vice versa, or whether it was a case of two great minds using the same analogy, I thought it worth sharing with you.
If anyone knows more about the history of this statement, I would interested to hear.
Be well, Randy
"Whatever the problem, community is the answer. There is no power greater than a community discovering what it cares about." Margaret Wheatley _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Dear Colleagues: Actually I recall that JWM quoted Martin Luther who said it! Although others think it may have been St Augustine. My bet is that Dorothy Day did quote anyone - she just said it herself Jonathan Barker On 29/11/2012, at 6:50 AM, Ken Fisher wrote:
Friends and Colleagues,
I have reported this before.
Nearly 40 years ago, while assigned to the academy for a couple of quarters, I read some essays written by Martin Heidegger. One was 'on poetry'. He described poetic utterances as coming from a place "between the no-longer and the not-yet".
To me, like Bob Dylan, whose words in one song, can be a paraphrase of a 12th century French poet, charismatic geniuses can keep an unconscious file of timely metaphor ready to chairotically apply.
Respectfully,
Ken
On 2012-11-28, at 1:43 PM, R Williams wrote:
Friends and Colleagues,
One of Joe's quotes, I think from the RS-1 Church Lecture, which many of you may have used from time to time, as I have, to express your frustration with the church, was "The church is a whore but she's my mother."
Dorothy Day, cofounder of the Catholic Worker Movement, would have been 115 years old this month. The Catholic Church is currently in the process of canonizing her. Today I ran across an article which she wrote and published in The Catholic Worker in January of 1967 entitled "In Peace Is My Bitterness Most Bitter." In this article she is chastising some of those in the church who, among other things, had called for a "total" U.S. victory in the Viet Nam War. In that article I discovered this quote from Dorothy Day. "As to the Church... Though she is a harlot at times, she is our Mother." (Joe may well have placed the comma after the word "harlot.")
Having imagined all these years that this was one of the more brazen statements Joe Mathews ever uttered, I was amazed to run across the same statement, from about that same time, from a Catholic nun.
I'm not sure why this struck me as such an interesting discovery. Perhaps it is that, as I continue in the midst of my life-long love/hate relationship with institutional Christianity, I found new justification that it is a struggle worth having. Whether Joe got the quote from Dorothy Day or vice versa, or whether it was a case of two great minds using the same analogy, I thought it worth sharing with you.
If anyone knows more about the history of this statement, I would interested to hear.
Be well, Randy
"Whatever the problem, community is the answer. There is no power greater than a community discovering what it cares about." Margaret Wheatley _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Early sixties when I caught myself echoing a church youth sentiment: the Roman Catholic Church has become a whore, and the Methodist Church, a pimp. The sentiment was universal among fellow ecumenical wayfarers! So, it would not surprise me if it is traceable to the early Church fathers (the mothers kept their veils at the back pews, I was told). j'aime la vie Yesterday, appreciate; tomorrow, anticipate; today, participate. In all, Celebrate! -----Original Message----- From: J and J Barker <jkjmbarker@bigpond.com> To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Thu, Nov 29, 2012 8:35 am Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Dorothy Day and Joe Mathews on the Same Track Dear Colleagues: Actually I recall that JWM quoted Martin Luther who said it! Although others think it may have been St Augustine. My bet is that Dorothy Day did quote anyone - she just said it herself Jonathan Barker On 29/11/2012, at 6:50 AM, Ken Fisher wrote: Friends and Colleagues, I have reported this before. Nearly 40 years ago, while assigned to the academy for a couple of quarters, I read some essays written by Martin Heidegger. One was 'on poetry'. He described poetic utterances as coming from a place "between the no-longer and the not-yet". To me, like Bob Dylan, whose words in one song, can be a paraphrase of a 12th century French poet, charismatic geniuses can keep an unconscious file of timely metaphor ready to chairotically apply. Respectfully, Ken On 2012-11-28, at 1:43 PM, R Williams wrote: Friends and Colleagues, One of Joe's quotes, I think from the RS-1 Church Lecture, which many of you may have used from time to time, as I have, to express your frustration with the church, was "The church is a whore but she's my mother." Dorothy Day, cofounder of the Catholic Worker Movement, would have been 115 years old this month. The Catholic Church is currently in the process of canonizing her. Today I ran across an article which she wrote and published in The Catholic Worker in January of 1967 entitled "In Peace Is My Bitterness Most Bitter." In this article she is chastising some of those in the church who, among other things, had called for a "total" U.S. victory in the Viet Nam War. In that article I discovered this quote from Dorothy Day. "As to the Church... Though she is a harlot at times, she is our Mother." (Joe may well have placed the comma after the word "harlot.") Having imagined all these years that this was one of the more brazen statements Joe Mathews ever uttered, I was amazed to run across the same statement, from about that same time, from a Catholic nun. I'm not sure why this struck me as such an interesting discovery. Perhaps it is that, as I continue in the midst of my life-long love/hate relationship with institutional Christianity, I found new justification that it is a struggle worth having. Whether Joe got the quote from Dorothy Day or vice versa, or whether it was a case of two great minds using the same analogy, I thought it worth sharing with you. If anyone knows more about the history of this statement, I would interested to hear. Be well, Randy "Whatever the problem, community is the answer. There is no power greater than a community discovering what it cares about." Margaret Wheatley _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Hey Randy, It's been a long time since we have seen each other. This is a fun and affirming confluence of quotes you have discovered. Thanks for sharing it with all of us. Charles Hahn On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 1:43 PM, R Williams <rcwmbw@yahoo.com> wrote:
Friends and Colleagues,
One of Joe's quotes, I think from the RS-1 Church Lecture, which many of you may have used from time to time, as I have, to express your frustration with the church, was *"The church is a whore but she's my mother."*
Dorothy Day, cofounder of the Catholic Worker Movement, would have been 115 years old this month. The Catholic Church is currently in the process of canonizing her. Today I ran across an article which she wrote and published in The Catholic Worker in January of 1967 entitled "In Peace Is My Bitterness Most Bitter." In this article she is chastising some of those in the church who, among other things, had called for a "total" U.S. victory in the Viet Nam War. In that article I discovered this quote from Dorothy Day. *"As to the Church... Though she is a harlot at times, she is our Mother." *(Joe may well have placed the comma after the word "harlot.")
Having imagined all these years that this was one of the more brazen statements Joe Mathews ever uttered, I was amazed to run across the same statement, from about that same time, from a Catholic nun.
I'm not sure why this struck me as such an interesting discovery. Perhaps it is that, as I continue in the midst of my life-long love/hate relationship with institutional Christianity, I found new justification that it is a struggle worth having. Whether Joe got the quote from Dorothy Day or vice versa, or whether it was a case of two great minds using the same analogy, I thought it worth sharing with you.
If anyone knows more about the history of this statement, I would interested to hear.
Be well, Randy
*"Whatever the problem, community is the answer. There is no power greater than a community discovering what it cares about." *Margaret Wheatley
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Charles, I've seen you in the movies. You look great. Best of the season to you and Doris. Randy Sent from my iPhone On Nov 28, 2012, at 3:38 PM, Charles Hahn <cfhahn30@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey Randy, It's been a long time since we have seen each other. This is a fun and affirming confluence of quotes you have discovered. Thanks for sharing it with all of us. Charles Hahn
On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 1:43 PM, R Williams <rcwmbw@yahoo.com> wrote:
Friends and Colleagues,
One of Joe's quotes, I think from the RS-1 Church Lecture, which many of you may have used from time to time, as I have, to express your frustration with the church, was "The church is a whore but she's my mother."
Dorothy Day, cofounder of the Catholic Worker Movement, would have been 115 years old this month. The Catholic Church is currently in the process of canonizing her. Today I ran across an article which she wrote and published in The Catholic Worker in January of 1967 entitled "In Peace Is My Bitterness Most Bitter." In this article she is chastising some of those in the church who, among other things, had called for a "total" U.S. victory in the Viet Nam War. In that article I discovered this quote from Dorothy Day. "As to the Church... Though she is a harlot at times, she is our Mother." (Joe may well have placed the comma after the word "harlot.")
Having imagined all these years that this was one of the more brazen statements Joe Mathews ever uttered, I was amazed to run across the same statement, from about that same time, from a Catholic nun.
I'm not sure why this struck me as such an interesting discovery. Perhaps it is that, as I continue in the midst of my life-long love/hate relationship with institutional Christianity, I found new justification that it is a struggle worth having. Whether Joe got the quote from Dorothy Day or vice versa, or whether it was a case of two great minds using the same analogy, I thought it worth sharing with you.
If anyone knows more about the history of this statement, I would interested to hear.
Be well, Randy
"Whatever the problem, community is the answer. There is no power greater than a community discovering what it cares about." Margaret Wheatley
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
participants (6)
-
Charles Hahn -
J and J Barker -
Jaime R Vergara -
Ken Fisher -
R Williams -
Randy Williams