Quote attributed to Hillary Clinton that seems to add to this conversation: "As long as there are those who are willing to shed blood and take innocent life in the name of religion--in the name of God--the world will never know a true and lasting peace." Seems as though religions, especially the 3 Abrahamic ones, put the greatest emphasis on death as the ultimate sacrifice . . .  see also this cartoon . . . Jim Wiegel "The problem with quotes on the internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity." Abraham Lincoln 401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353-2401 +1 623-363-3277 skype: jfredwiegel jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com Upcoming public course opportunities: ToP Facilitation Methods, Sept 11-12, 2012 ToP Strategic Planning, Oct 9-10, 2012 The AZ Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday- Sept 7, 2012 Facilitation Mastery : Our Mastering the Technology of Participation program is available in Phoenix in 2012-3. Program begins on Nov 14-16, 2012 See short video http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=55 and website for further details. --- On Sun, 9/16/12, Marge Philbrook <msphilbrook@gmail.com> wrote: From: Marge Philbrook <msphilbrook@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Mulling over current chaos To: "Order Ecumenical Community" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Date: Sunday, September 16, 2012, 5:47 AM Thanks for your time to make this statement.  Several of us are focusing on archives these next few days and are looking for the wisdom that needs to be preserved from our past, that is in our present and still needs to be disseminated again and again.  Grace and Peace, Marge Philbrook On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Del Morril <delhmor@wamail.net> wrote: Dear family and friends, Have been mulling over recent events:    “They will hand you over to be tortured and will put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of my name.” (Jesus) This has proved to be true – Jesus and many of his followers went to their deaths because of their beliefs.  It amazes me the tremendous sacrifice many have been called to make as martyrs to their causes – Jesus and his disciples, MLK, Jr. and all those who preceded him in the Civil Rights movement, Gandhi and all those who chose to follow into the sticks and stones of those who didn’t agree in nationalizing India, and all the other incredibly brave souls in history who held their beliefs so strongly that they faced death daily.  They knew each day could be their last, yet moved forward and let others follow; doing the same because they truly believed that act would build a better world for others.  Most of us spend our lives making the world better for us!  That certainly includes me.  Is it any wonder that so many who think they can follow such brave leaders give up – they get scared (understandably – I certainly would under sustained assault), or they become convinced the cause isn’t as important as they first thought, or they get upset with a colleague who uses the cause for their own gain, or for who knows how many other reasons.  I may be appalled by the terrorist of our day who strap their bombs to themselves, yet I have to admire such amazing dedication – that and the other “kamikazes” of the world who believe in something so fully (rightly or wrongly from our point of view) that they are willing to give up their most precious gift – their own lives for that cause.  My daring acts have been very sudden and brief, and may have made a difference to only one person at any one time. I’m too much of a coward to every go any farther than that! Today the news is filled with hatred toward America – so what else is new?  I am in awe over those who choose to take on assignments in such areas of the world where their lives are constantly unsafe, to say the least. Locally, I continue to be in awe of police and fire workers for the same reason.  They don’t do this for themselves, or they would find safer ways to work.  They do this for their society’s safety and betterment. Today, I am especially grateful for this.   With continued affection and friendship, Del         _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net