Thanks, Marshall--sounds good to me.  This has been our main focus through the church (local congregation, presbytery, and PCUSA) and local community since "retirement" from the full time pastorate seven years ago.  Most denominations have programs moving in this direction, if congregations dare use them and connect/network with other churches and groups in a wider movement. Ellie elliestock@aol.com -----Original Message----- From: W. J. via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: W. J. <synergi@yahoo.com> Sent: Wed, Feb 6, 2019 11:29 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Some reflections from Shadow Rock Church -- one ofthe founders was interviewed recently In response to Wiegel's 4 categories of church history:Early period -- clarity on the word about lifeMedieval period -- being the glue of societyReformation -- being the prophet and priestNow (or then, as in the last century) -- social pioneer Each of these foci was the leading edge of mission in its era, but each built on the 'ground' of the previous expressions/self-understandings of the PoG.So, if the O:E was called to create a leading edge of mission in the 20th century--or up until 2007--what form of the PoG is now being called into being?One guess: some 'thing' that focuses on global ecological transformation to envision and create a sustainable and equitable ecosystem with justice for all living beings--including future generations.And that's about all I can come up with @ age 78.Marshall On Wednesday, February 6, 2019, 6:07:48 AM PST, H. A. Tillinghast via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: May someone in his eighties retell the story of the church coming out of the last 25 years of biblical research.I First two centuries: Jesus movement struggles in its empire context to define the Kingdom as an alternative.II Constantine buys rights to “Christianity” and institutionalizes it to legitimize empire.III Church today again struggles to return to becoming a movement in midst of a global empire that now threatens the viability of the whole planet. Bud TillinghastLCXile Several Sources:“The Roman Empire and the New Testament” Warren Carter“God and Empire” J D Crossan“Everything Must Change” Brian McLaren“This Changes Everything” Naomi Klein On 6 Feb 2019, at 5:35 am, Richard Alton via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: That is great for somebody inn their 70sDick On Tue, Feb 5, 2019 at 10:09 PM James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Thanks for adding in, Troy.  I found myself thinking about the old EI "story" of history of the Church (hmm, would be RS-IIc -- how's that for random memory access??) Early period -- clarity on the word about lifeMedieval period -- being the glue of societyReformation -- being the prophet and priestNow (or then, as in the last century) -- social pioneer I am thinking, in a local congregation, you don't have the option to just go for social pioneer, it cannot last ( Have to balance all 4 -- clarity on the word, being the glue of society, prophet/priest, social pioneer (this comment may not be at all relevant or clear, but, hey, I'm in my 70's --  Jim Wiegel   “That which consumes me is not man, nor the earth, nor the heavens, but the flame which consumes man, earth, and sky."  Nikos Kazantzakis 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com On Tuesday, February 5, 2019, 4:30:37 PM MST, Troy Jarvis via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: I’m not acquainted with Jack, but think you are mishearing what the pastor is saying, which leads to what seems like you are questioning him. I am quite certain what his response would be to your questions (since I do know him), but you can ask him yourself through ShadowRock web site. He would not take offense. BTW, ShadowRock has been a sanctuary church for several years and Ken and others go down to ICE offices monthly for a gathering to let them know they are being “watched.” Ken has been pastor for, I believe, 11 years now.   I share Jim’s concerns for existential Christianity. I trust the existential will always find a way.   Troy Jarvis   Sent from Mail for Windows 10   From: Jack Gilles via OE Sent: Tuesday, February 5, 2019 1:59 PM To: OE Listserve Cc: Jack Gilles Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Some reflections from Shadow Rock Church -- one ofthe founders was interviewed recently   I watched the video. Very good, but I take it this is the new pastor. His comment about “as long as the action doesn’t break the law” really hit me. What does he say about the sit-ins of the civil rights movement? How would he explain Bonhoeffer’s decision to kill Hitler? What makes the law (he says of the establishment) make breaking it a taboo? I wish she would have given back the image of the Trans-establishment. Gene Marshall has a wonderful diagram and statement on that. I worry about the future for that church.   Jack On Feb 4, 2019, at 09:28, Jean Long via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:   Hi Jim - Did you actually go to Shadow Rock and talk to them or was this conversation something you found along the way?   Jean   On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 1:53 PM Linda and Milan Hamilton via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Thanks Jim, if I were to go back to the institutional church that is the kind of group I would be a part of. And it being a part of my old denomination struck me. My second choice would be Redlands UCC, in our town, which has not quite the intentional history but close. But I am in the bleachers cheering them on and doing my best to stay grounded in the Way Life Is. MM Sent from my iPad On Jan 31, 2019, at 11:33 AM, James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> wrote: North Phoenix.  Remember the RS-1 worship intro about architecture?  The building is shaped as a wedgeblade and the front is floor to ceiling windows looking out on the world.  Wedgeblade instead of a cross.   Shadow Rock UCC |   | | | | Shadow Rock UCC | | | |       Jim Wiegel   “That which consumes me is not man, nor the earth, nor the heavens, but the flame which consumes man, earth, and sky."  Nikos Kazantzakis 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com     On Thursday, January 31, 2019, 12:29:54 PM MST, Linda and Milan Hamilton <lindaandmilan@gmail.com> wrote:     Well that was a trip back to some good old 20th century grounding. A church actually basing it’s life on RS1 and evolving as a “social pioneer.” Where is Shadow Rock church? Sent from my iPad On Jan 31, 2019, at 11:25 AM, John C via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Thanks much, Jim. A fine 30” dialogue between ministers relative to foundational operating images of Shadow Rock Church then in 1970s and today.   Notice that the wedge blade still stands.   John and Lynda C.   From: OE <oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> on behalf of James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Reply-To: Jim Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Date: Thursday, January 31, 2019 at 1:32 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>, Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>, Judith Wiegel <judithwiegel@yahoo.com> Cc: Jim Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Subject: [Oe List ...] Some reflections from Shadow Rock Church -- one of the founders was interviewed recently   Our Covenant: We covenant one with another to be that sensitive and responsive part of human society which perceives and responds to God’s newest thrust in the midst of history. The uniqueness and greatness of every life is radically affirmed. Our task together demands a comprehensive view of life, always pointed intentionally to the future. Our life together involves us individually and corporately in study and worship, always maintaining a proper balance between proclamation of the Word about life with the deeds which make life good. Those activities which eliminate age barriers, cut across religious dogma, reduce cultural parochialisms, and engage secular people with life’s ultimate possibilities will be worthy of our best efforts.   Conversation with Rev. Robin Krieder   | | | | | | | | | | | Conversation with Rev. Robin Krieder Shadow Rock Conversation with Rev. Robin Krieder. Rev. Krieder speaks about the founding of Shadow Rock and the ... | | |       | | | | | | | | | | | Conversation with Rev. Robin Krieder Shadow Rock Conversation with Rev. Robin Krieder. Rev. Krieder speaks about the founding of Shadow Rock and the ... | | |       Jim Wiegel   “That which consumes me is not man, nor the earth, nor the heavens, but the flame which consumes man, earth, and sky."  Nikos Kazantzakis 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net     _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net -- Richard H. 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