1. Re: [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience"
Hi I agree with what Randy, Ken and Dharmalingam say to a great extent, and would like to add something. I believe that most if not all of the people on this list are in great pain about what is going on now and what has been going on for past many decades and even centuries that have led up to the current situation. I know for sure that we have been working for decades to support and entirely new approach to society, but in spite of our efforts and those of millions of others, the powerful close ranks and push forward. We are not alone in having done a lot and also not alone in feeling the pain. To my mind the Trump clique, both the American and international one, would like to distract their citizens from the attacks on democracy that they and others have been carrying out for a long time. At the same time it seems to me that they would like to push the colonial project on further against the will and wishes of most people. They have grabbed the positions of power in the media, education, productive industry, government and so much more, and would love to go further. That so many American citizens remain so ignorant of the rest of the world and even most of the rest of their own nation is another great pain, and this continues despite our and many others' significant efforts for many decades. It's so hard to know what do to that will really change the direction. Yes it is so painful that even though the consequences of "anticipatory obedience" are well known, not least though the events around the Nazi government, that many tend to still do the same probably out of fear of consequences for themselves as well as the pain of having to face up to what's going on and all this again in spite of the dedicated efforts of our selves and so many. Maria and I have been quite grateful to have discovered and using the insights and meditations of Self-Compassion as developed by Kristin Neff and many others. As I listen to what she says, it is really a practical application of what we have said about the Christ Word, especially, You are accepted, the past is approved, the future is open. This is not about retreat into yourself, but empowering and supporting yourself and others. If this approach is new to you as it was to us, you can learn more at www.self-compassion.org. To get a view into the long term international anti-democratic strategies of the international political and economic elites, I highly recommend The Crisis of Democracy a research project of the TriLateral commission in the late 60's. The "crisis" for them was the rising expectation of people for a more democratic society and they outlined a strategy that you will easily recognize has been going on since the early 70's to shut it down. Reading it is like reading the battle plan of the powerful and privileged to keep the world safe for themselves. It is even available for free online on the Internet Archive https://ia801308.us.archive.org/23/items/TheCrisisOfDemocracy-TrilateralComm... On a contemporary note, we have become aware of the Atlas Network, a collaboration of anti-democratic organisations funded largely by fossil fuel billionaires, is also useful. Their strategy is to fund think-tanks around the world, such as the Cato Institute, Heartland Institute in the US and the Institute of Public Affairs in Australia. Their website claims to now have 500 affiliates in over 100 countries. Adam Smith described these efforts over 200 years ago with a concise phrasein "The Wealth of Nations" , *"Whenever these people get together, even for sport or amusement, the public is worse off. * The talk is about how to reduce wages and raise prices." Finally Maria I would like to thank everyone on this list for what you have done for peace and justice in the world, and catalysing awareness and action for so many, in our world, and we have all made a great difference against great odds. Grace and Peace Richard* * On 10/02/2025 8:01 am, oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience" (Dharmalingam Vinasithamby) 2. West condones genocide (Ken Fisher) 3. Re: Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience" (RICHARD HOWIE) 4. Re: West condones genocide (Randy Williams)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 01:46:26 +0000 (UTC) From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby<dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> To: Colleague Dialogue<dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>, Order Ecumenical Community<oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience" Message-ID:<2068938938.10282361.1739065586212@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
In his op-ed on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience", Masha Gessen presents ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Trump? as a looming threat. Some may see this article as timely and relevant but I see it as part of Western media?s continuing effort to keep Americans in their bubble. From my possibly recalcitrant point of view from the other side of the world, the Americans are no strangers to anticipatory obedience. Most of them have confronted ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Biden? without a cringe. After electing a warmonger as President who conspired with Netanyahu to make the US a partner in genocide, how much more trying would MAGA be? As long as Americans wail about Trump leading them without acknowledging what has been done in their name over the last four years, they will remain in their bubble while the world looks on with horror.?
On Sunday, 9 February 2025 at 07:31:33 am MYT, Ellie Stock via Dialogue<dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Hi Folks,Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience". . .Ellie?elliestock@aol.com? This op-ed in The NY Times calls on us not to obey in advance:?https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/08/opinion/trump-power-surrender.html?unlocked_article_code=1.vU4.GN6W.UhwJBG0c4Bv_&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
Ditto... On Thu, Feb 13, 2025, 7:52 AM James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
21 words. Great point. I’m in Jim Wiegel
“…the long work of turning their lives into a celebration is not easy. Come and let us talk“.
The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver
On Feb 12, 2025, at 8:16 PM, Bill Parker via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
We need a session on “a path forward”. Our specific experience, context, and process understanding is exactly what is needed now.
Bill Parker
On Feb 9, 2025, at 6:59 PM, Richard and Maria Maguire via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Hi
I agree with what Randy, Ken and Dharmalingam say to a great extent, and would like to add something. I believe that most if not all of the people on this list are in great pain about what is going on now and what has been going on for past many decades and even centuries that have led up to the current situation. I know for sure that we have been working for decades to support and entirely new approach to society, but in spite of our efforts and those of millions of others, the powerful close ranks and push forward. We are not alone in having done a lot and also not alone in feeling the pain.
To my mind the Trump clique, both the American and international one, would like to distract their citizens from the attacks on democracy that they and others have been carrying out for a long time. At the same time it seems to me that they would like to push the colonial project on further against the will and wishes of most people. They have grabbed the positions of power in the media, education, productive industry, government and so much more, and would love to go further.
That so many American citizens remain so ignorant of the rest of the world and even most of the rest of their own nation is another great pain, and this continues despite our and many others' significant efforts for many decades. It's so hard to know what do to that will really change the direction.
Yes it is so painful that even though the consequences of "anticipatory obedience" are well known, not least though the events around the Nazi government, that many tend to still do the same probably out of fear of consequences for themselves as well as the pain of having to face up to what's going on and all this again in spite of the dedicated efforts of our selves and so many.
Maria and I have been quite grateful to have discovered and using the insights and meditations of Self-Compassion as developed by Kristin Neff and many others. As I listen to what she says, it is really a practical application of what we have said about the Christ Word, especially, You are accepted, the past is approved, the future is open. This is not about retreat into yourself, but empowering and supporting yourself and others. If this approach is new to you as it was to us, you can learn more at www.self-compassion.org.
To get a view into the long term international anti-democratic strategies of the international political and economic elites, I highly recommend The Crisis of Democracy a research project of the TriLateral commission in the late 60's. The "crisis" for them was the rising expectation of people for a more democratic society and they outlined a strategy that you will easily recognize has been going on since the early 70's to shut it down. Reading it is like reading the battle plan of the powerful and privileged to keep the world safe for themselves. It is even available for free online on the Internet Archive
https://ia801308.us.archive.org/23/items/TheCrisisOfDemocracy-TrilateralComm...
On a contemporary note, we have become aware of the Atlas Network, a collaboration of anti-democratic organisations funded largely by fossil fuel billionaires, is also useful. Their strategy is to fund think-tanks around the world, such as the Cato Institute, Heartland Institute in the US and the Institute of Public Affairs in Australia. Their website claims to now have 500 affiliates in over 100 countries.
Adam Smith described these efforts over 200 years ago with a concise phrase in "The Wealth of Nations" , *"Whenever these people get together, even for sport or amusement, the public is worse off. * The talk is about how to reduce wages and raise prices."
Finally Maria I would like to thank everyone on this list for what you have done for peace and justice in the world, and catalysing awareness and action for so many, in our world, and we have all made a great difference against great odds.
Grace and Peace
Richard
On 10/02/2025 8:01 am, oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net wrote:
Send OE mailing list submissions to oe@lists.wedgeblade.net
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You can reach the person managing the list at oe-owner@lists.wedgeblade.net
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of OE digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience" (Dharmalingam Vinasithamby) 2. West condones genocide (Ken Fisher) 3. Re: Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience" (RICHARD HOWIE) 4. Re: West condones genocide (Randy Williams)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 01:46:26 +0000 (UTC) From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> To: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience" Message-ID: <2068938938.10282361.1739065586212@mail.yahoo.com> <2068938938.10282361.1739065586212@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
In his op-ed on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience", Masha Gessen presents ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Trump? as a looming threat. Some may see this article as timely and relevant but I see it as part of Western media?s continuing effort to keep Americans in their bubble. From my possibly recalcitrant point of view from the other side of the world, the Americans are no strangers to anticipatory obedience. Most of them have confronted ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Biden? without a cringe. After electing a warmonger as President who conspired with Netanyahu to make the US a partner in genocide, how much more trying would MAGA be? As long as Americans wail about Trump leading them without acknowledging what has been done in their name over the last four years, they will remain in their bubble while the world looks on with horror.?
On Sunday, 9 February 2025 at 07:31:33 am MYT, Ellie Stock via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Hi Folks,Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience". . .Ellie?elliestock@aol.com? This op-ed in The NY Times calls on us not to obey in advance:?https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/08/opinion/trump-power-surrender.html?unlocked_article_code=1.vU4.GN6W.UhwJBG0c4Bv_&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing listDialogue@lists.wedgeblade.nethttp://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
Agree! Nancy T On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 9:16 AM Sunny Walker via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Ditto...
On Thu, Feb 13, 2025, 7:52 AM James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
21 words. Great point. I’m in Jim Wiegel
“…the long work of turning their lives into a celebration is not easy. Come and let us talk“.
The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver
On Feb 12, 2025, at 8:16 PM, Bill Parker via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
We need a session on “a path forward”. Our specific experience, context, and process understanding is exactly what is needed now.
Bill Parker
On Feb 9, 2025, at 6:59 PM, Richard and Maria Maguire via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Hi
I agree with what Randy, Ken and Dharmalingam say to a great extent, and would like to add something. I believe that most if not all of the people on this list are in great pain about what is going on now and what has been going on for past many decades and even centuries that have led up to the current situation. I know for sure that we have been working for decades to support and entirely new approach to society, but in spite of our efforts and those of millions of others, the powerful close ranks and push forward. We are not alone in having done a lot and also not alone in feeling the pain.
To my mind the Trump clique, both the American and international one, would like to distract their citizens from the attacks on democracy that they and others have been carrying out for a long time. At the same time it seems to me that they would like to push the colonial project on further against the will and wishes of most people. They have grabbed the positions of power in the media, education, productive industry, government and so much more, and would love to go further.
That so many American citizens remain so ignorant of the rest of the world and even most of the rest of their own nation is another great pain, and this continues despite our and many others' significant efforts for many decades. It's so hard to know what do to that will really change the direction.
Yes it is so painful that even though the consequences of "anticipatory obedience" are well known, not least though the events around the Nazi government, that many tend to still do the same probably out of fear of consequences for themselves as well as the pain of having to face up to what's going on and all this again in spite of the dedicated efforts of our selves and so many.
Maria and I have been quite grateful to have discovered and using the insights and meditations of Self-Compassion as developed by Kristin Neff and many others. As I listen to what she says, it is really a practical application of what we have said about the Christ Word, especially, You are accepted, the past is approved, the future is open. This is not about retreat into yourself, but empowering and supporting yourself and others. If this approach is new to you as it was to us, you can learn more at www.self-compassion.org.
To get a view into the long term international anti-democratic strategies of the international political and economic elites, I highly recommend The Crisis of Democracy a research project of the TriLateral commission in the late 60's. The "crisis" for them was the rising expectation of people for a more democratic society and they outlined a strategy that you will easily recognize has been going on since the early 70's to shut it down. Reading it is like reading the battle plan of the powerful and privileged to keep the world safe for themselves. It is even available for free online on the Internet Archive
https://ia801308.us.archive.org/23/items/TheCrisisOfDemocracy-TrilateralComm...
On a contemporary note, we have become aware of the Atlas Network, a collaboration of anti-democratic organisations funded largely by fossil fuel billionaires, is also useful. Their strategy is to fund think-tanks around the world, such as the Cato Institute, Heartland Institute in the US and the Institute of Public Affairs in Australia. Their website claims to now have 500 affiliates in over 100 countries.
Adam Smith described these efforts over 200 years ago with a concise phrase in "The Wealth of Nations" , *"Whenever these people get together, even for sport or amusement, the public is worse off. * The talk is about how to reduce wages and raise prices."
Finally Maria I would like to thank everyone on this list for what you have done for peace and justice in the world, and catalysing awareness and action for so many, in our world, and we have all made a great difference against great odds.
Grace and Peace
Richard
On 10/02/2025 8:01 am, oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net wrote:
Send OE mailing list submissions to oe@lists.wedgeblade.net
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net
You can reach the person managing the list at oe-owner@lists.wedgeblade.net
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of OE digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience" (Dharmalingam Vinasithamby) 2. West condones genocide (Ken Fisher) 3. Re: Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience" (RICHARD HOWIE) 4. Re: West condones genocide (Randy Williams)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 01:46:26 +0000 (UTC) From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> To: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience" Message-ID: <2068938938.10282361.1739065586212@mail.yahoo.com> <2068938938.10282361.1739065586212@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
In his op-ed on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience", Masha Gessen presents ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Trump? as a looming threat. Some may see this article as timely and relevant but I see it as part of Western media?s continuing effort to keep Americans in their bubble. >From my possibly recalcitrant point of view from the other side of the world, the Americans are no strangers to anticipatory obedience. Most of them have confronted ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Biden? without a cringe. After electing a warmonger as President who conspired with Netanyahu to make the US a partner in genocide, how much more trying would MAGA be? As long as Americans wail about Trump leading them without acknowledging what has been done in their name over the last four years, they will remain in their bubble while the world looks on with horror.?
On Sunday, 9 February 2025 at 07:31:33 am MYT, Ellie Stock via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Hi Folks,Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience". . .Ellie?elliestock@aol.com? This op-ed in The NY Times calls on us not to obey in advance:?https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/08/opinion/trump-power-surrender.html?unlocked_article_code=1.vU4.GN6W.UhwJBG0c4Bv_&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing listDialogue@lists.wedgeblade.nethttp://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
This would be great. Seth T. Longacre Ashland, OR Unapologetically committed to equality, diversity, compassion, love, and justice. ———-O0ooo— ———–(——)— ————)–-/—- ————(_/- —-ooo0O—- —-(——)—- —–\-–(– ——\_)-
On Feb 13, 2025, at 06:49, James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
21 words. Great point. I’m in Jim Wiegel “…the long work of turning their lives into a celebration is not easy. Come and let us talk“.
The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver
On Feb 12, 2025, at 8:16 PM, Bill Parker via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
We need a session on “a path forward”. Our specific experience, context, and process understanding is exactly what is needed now.
Bill Parker
On Feb 9, 2025, at 6:59 PM, Richard and Maria Maguire via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Hi
I agree with what Randy, Ken and Dharmalingam say to a great extent, and would like to add something. I believe that most if not all of the people on this list are in great pain about what is going on now and what has been going on for past many decades and even centuries that have led up to the current situation. I know for sure that we have been working for decades to support and entirely new approach to society, but in spite of our efforts and those of millions of others, the powerful close ranks and push forward. We are not alone in having done a lot and also not alone in feeling the pain.
To my mind the Trump clique, both the American and international one, would like to distract their citizens from the attacks on democracy that they and others have been carrying out for a long time. At the same time it seems to me that they would like to push the colonial project on further against the will and wishes of most people. They have grabbed the positions of power in the media, education, productive industry, government and so much more, and would love to go further.
That so many American citizens remain so ignorant of the rest of the world and even most of the rest of their own nation is another great pain, and this continues despite our and many others' significant efforts for many decades. It's so hard to know what do to that will really change the direction.
Yes it is so painful that even though the consequences of "anticipatory obedience" are well known, not least though the events around the Nazi government, that many tend to still do the same probably out of fear of consequences for themselves as well as the pain of having to face up to what's going on and all this again in spite of the dedicated efforts of our selves and so many.
Maria and I have been quite grateful to have discovered and using the insights and meditations of Self-Compassion as developed by Kristin Neff and many others. As I listen to what she says, it is really a practical application of what we have said about the Christ Word, especially, You are accepted, the past is approved, the future is open. This is not about retreat into yourself, but empowering and supporting yourself and others. If this approach is new to you as it was to us, you can learn more at www.self-compassion.org <http://www.self-compassion.org/>.
To get a view into the long term international anti-democratic strategies of the international political and economic elites, I highly recommend The Crisis of Democracy a research project of the TriLateral commission in the late 60's. The "crisis" for them was the rising expectation of people for a more democratic society and they outlined a strategy that you will easily recognize has been going on since the early 70's to shut it down. Reading it is like reading the battle plan of the powerful and privileged to keep the world safe for themselves. It is even available for free online on the Internet Archive
https://ia801308.us.archive.org/23/items/TheCrisisOfDemocracy-TrilateralComm...
On a contemporary note, we have become aware of the Atlas Network, a collaboration of anti-democratic organisations funded largely by fossil fuel billionaires, is also useful. Their strategy is to fund think-tanks around the world, such as the Cato Institute, Heartland Institute in the US and the Institute of Public Affairs in Australia. Their website claims to now have 500 affiliates in over 100 countries.
Adam Smith described these efforts over 200 years ago with a concise phrase in "The Wealth of Nations" , "Whenever these people get together, even for sport or amusement, the public is worse off. The talk is about how to reduce wages and raise prices."
Finally Maria I would like to thank everyone on this list for what you have done for peace and justice in the world, and catalysing awareness and action for so many, in our world, and we have all made a great difference against great odds.
Grace and Peace
Richard
On 10/02/2025 8:01 am, oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Send OE mailing list submissions to oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net>
You can reach the person managing the list at oe-owner@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe-owner@lists.wedgeblade.net>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of OE digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience" (Dharmalingam Vinasithamby) 2. West condones genocide (Ken Fisher) 3. Re: Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience" (RICHARD HOWIE) 4. Re: West condones genocide (Randy Williams)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 01:46:26 +0000 (UTC) From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> <mailto:dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> To: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> <mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience" Message-ID: <2068938938.10282361.1739065586212@mail.yahoo.com> <mailto:2068938938.10282361.1739065586212@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
In his op-ed on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience", Masha Gessen presents ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Trump? as a looming threat. Some may see this article as timely and relevant but I see it as part of Western media?s continuing effort to keep Americans in their bubble. From my possibly recalcitrant point of view from the other side of the world, the Americans are no strangers to anticipatory obedience. Most of them have confronted ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Biden? without a cringe. After electing a warmonger as President who conspired with Netanyahu to make the US a partner in genocide, how much more trying would MAGA be? As long as Americans wail about Trump leading them without acknowledging what has been done in their name over the last four years, they will remain in their bubble while the world looks on with horror.?
On Sunday, 9 February 2025 at 07:31:33 am MYT, Ellie Stock via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> <mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Hi Folks,Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience". . .Ellie?elliestock@aol.com? This op-ed in The NY Times calls on us not to obey in advance:?https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/08/opinion/trump-power-surrender.html?unlocked_article_code=1.vU4.GN6W.UhwJBG0c4Bv_&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
I would like to participate. Thanks, Bill et al, Ken
On Feb 9, 2025, at 10:43 PM, Bill Parker via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
We need a session on “a path forward”. Our specific experience, context, and process understanding is exactly what is needed now.
Bill Parker
On Feb 9, 2025, at 6:59 PM, Richard and Maria Maguire via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Hi
I agree with what Randy, Ken and Dharmalingam say to a great extent, and would like to add something. I believe that most if not all of the people on this list are in great pain about what is going on now and what has been going on for past many decades and even centuries that have led up to the current situation. I know for sure that we have been working for decades to support and entirely new approach to society, but in spite of our efforts and those of millions of others, the powerful close ranks and push forward. We are not alone in having done a lot and also not alone in feeling the pain.
To my mind the Trump clique, both the American and international one, would like to distract their citizens from the attacks on democracy that they and others have been carrying out for a long time. At the same time it seems to me that they would like to push the colonial project on further against the will and wishes of most people. They have grabbed the positions of power in the media, education, productive industry, government and so much more, and would love to go further.
That so many American citizens remain so ignorant of the rest of the world and even most of the rest of their own nation is another great pain, and this continues despite our and many others' significant efforts for many decades. It's so hard to know what do to that will really change the direction.
Yes it is so painful that even though the consequences of "anticipatory obedience" are well known, not least though the events around the Nazi government, that many tend to still do the same probably out of fear of consequences for themselves as well as the pain of having to face up to what's going on and all this again in spite of the dedicated efforts of our selves and so many.
Maria and I have been quite grateful to have discovered and using the insights and meditations of Self-Compassion as developed by Kristin Neff and many others. As I listen to what she says, it is really a practical application of what we have said about the Christ Word, especially, You are accepted, the past is approved, the future is open. This is not about retreat into yourself, but empowering and supporting yourself and others. If this approach is new to you as it was to us, you can learn more at www.self-compassion.org <http://www.self-compassion.org/>.
To get a view into the long term international anti-democratic strategies of the international political and economic elites, I highly recommend The Crisis of Democracy a research project of the TriLateral commission in the late 60's. The "crisis" for them was the rising expectation of people for a more democratic society and they outlined a strategy that you will easily recognize has been going on since the early 70's to shut it down. Reading it is like reading the battle plan of the powerful and privileged to keep the world safe for themselves. It is even available for free online on the Internet Archive
https://ia801308.us.archive.org/23/items/TheCrisisOfDemocracy-TrilateralComm...
On a contemporary note, we have become aware of the Atlas Network, a collaboration of anti-democratic organisations funded largely by fossil fuel billionaires, is also useful. Their strategy is to fund think-tanks around the world, such as the Cato Institute, Heartland Institute in the US and the Institute of Public Affairs in Australia. Their website claims to now have 500 affiliates in over 100 countries.
Adam Smith described these efforts over 200 years ago with a concise phrase in "The Wealth of Nations" , "Whenever these people get together, even for sport or amusement, the public is worse off. The talk is about how to reduce wages and raise prices."
Finally Maria I would like to thank everyone on this list for what you have done for peace and justice in the world, and catalysing awareness and action for so many, in our world, and we have all made a great difference against great odds.
Grace and Peace
Richard
On 10/02/2025 8:01 am, oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience" (Dharmalingam Vinasithamby) 2. West condones genocide (Ken Fisher) 3. Re: Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience" (RICHARD HOWIE) 4. Re: West condones genocide (Randy Williams)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 01:46:26 +0000 (UTC) From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> <mailto:dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> To: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> <mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience" Message-ID: <2068938938.10282361.1739065586212@mail.yahoo.com> <mailto:2068938938.10282361.1739065586212@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
In his op-ed on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience", Masha Gessen presents ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Trump? as a looming threat. Some may see this article as timely and relevant but I see it as part of Western media?s continuing effort to keep Americans in their bubble. From my possibly recalcitrant point of view from the other side of the world, the Americans are no strangers to anticipatory obedience. Most of them have confronted ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Biden? without a cringe. After electing a warmonger as President who conspired with Netanyahu to make the US a partner in genocide, how much more trying would MAGA be? As long as Americans wail about Trump leading them without acknowledging what has been done in their name over the last four years, they will remain in their bubble while the world looks on with horror.?
On Sunday, 9 February 2025 at 07:31:33 am MYT, Ellie Stock via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> <mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Hi Folks,Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience". . .Ellie?elliestock@aol.com? This op-ed in The NY Times calls on us not to obey in advance:?https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/08/opinion/trump-power-surrender.html?unlocked_article_code=1.vU4.GN6W.UhwJBG0c4Bv_&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
Dear Colleagues, This past week I facilitated the annual Senior Leadership Team retreat (a planning session in reality) for the UN Economic Commission for Africa. I have been facilitating and training various teams in this institution for 7-8 years now and finally got the opportunity to facilitate the senior most team. Unlike with the counterpart commission for Asia Pacific where I started with the senior team, I had to build up to this opportunity. My equivalent of the Ronin story from the old LENS programs is Parker J Palmer’s writings (and short videos), particularly his piece (attached) on “Finding your Soul” from his book “ Let Your Life Speak: Listening for the Voice of Vocation”. I especially like his Quaker metaphor for a Power Point – the Mobius Strip. I pause reading and demonstrate at this point. As with previous groups, individuals in this senior leadership group wanted to have copies of the reading. His “Courage to Teach” curriculum reminds me of our “Courage to Lead”. In fact much of Parker J Palmer’s work resonates strongly for me with OE/ICA teachings. The link below is his take on the Trans-establishment Stance. https://couragerenewal.org/library/hhd-standing-and-acting-in-the-tragic-gap... Kevin Balm From: OE <oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> On Behalf Of Bill Parker via OE Sent: Monday, 10 February 2025 2:44 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: Bill Parker <bparker1251963@gmail.com>; Richard and Maria Maguire <richardandmaria@unfoldingfutures.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] 1. Re: [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience" We need a session on “a path forward”. Our specific experience, context, and process understanding is exactly what is needed now. Bill Parker On Feb 9, 2025, at 6:59 PM, Richard and Maria Maguire via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> > wrote: Hi I agree with what Randy, Ken and Dharmalingam say to a great extent, and would like to add something. I believe that most if not all of the people on this list are in great pain about what is going on now and what has been going on for past many decades and even centuries that have led up to the current situation. I know for sure that we have been working for decades to support and entirely new approach to society, but in spite of our efforts and those of millions of others, the powerful close ranks and push forward. We are not alone in having done a lot and also not alone in feeling the pain. To my mind the Trump clique, both the American and international one, would like to distract their citizens from the attacks on democracy that they and others have been carrying out for a long time. At the same time it seems to me that they would like to push the colonial project on further against the will and wishes of most people. They have grabbed the positions of power in the media, education, productive industry, government and so much more, and would love to go further. That so many American citizens remain so ignorant of the rest of the world and even most of the rest of their own nation is another great pain, and this continues despite our and many others' significant efforts for many decades. It's so hard to know what do to that will really change the direction. Yes it is so painful that even though the consequences of "anticipatory obedience" are well known, not least though the events around the Nazi government, that many tend to still do the same probably out of fear of consequences for themselves as well as the pain of having to face up to what's going on and all this again in spite of the dedicated efforts of our selves and so many. Maria and I have been quite grateful to have discovered and using the insights and meditations of Self-Compassion as developed by Kristin Neff and many others. As I listen to what she says, it is really a practical application of what we have said about the Christ Word, especially, You are accepted, the past is approved, the future is open. This is not about retreat into yourself, but empowering and supporting yourself and others. If this approach is new to you as it was to us, you can learn more at www.self-compassion.org <http://www.self-compassion.org> . To get a view into the long term international anti-democratic strategies of the international political and economic elites, I highly recommend The Crisis of Democracy a research project of the TriLateral commission in the late 60's. The "crisis" for them was the rising expectation of people for a more democratic society and they outlined a strategy that you will easily recognize has been going on since the early 70's to shut it down. Reading it is like reading the battle plan of the powerful and privileged to keep the world safe for themselves. It is even available for free online on the Internet Archive https://ia801308.us.archive.org/23/items/TheCrisisOfDemocracy-TrilateralComm... On a contemporary note, we have become aware of the Atlas Network, a collaboration of anti-democratic organisations funded largely by fossil fuel billionaires, is also useful. Their strategy is to fund think-tanks around the world, such as the Cato Institute, Heartland Institute in the US and the Institute of Public Affairs in Australia. Their website claims to now have 500 affiliates in over 100 countries. Adam Smith described these efforts over 200 years ago with a concise phrase in "The Wealth of Nations" , "Whenever these people get together, even for sport or amusement, the public is worse off. The talk is about how to reduce wages and raise prices." Finally Maria I would like to thank everyone on this list for what you have done for peace and justice in the world, and catalysing awareness and action for so many, in our world, and we have all made a great difference against great odds. Grace and Peace Richard On 10/02/2025 8:01 am, oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Send OE mailing list submissions to oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net> You can reach the person managing the list at oe-owner@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe-owner@lists.wedgeblade.net> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of OE digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience" (Dharmalingam Vinasithamby) 2. West condones genocide (Ken Fisher) 3. Re: Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience" (RICHARD HOWIE) 4. Re: West condones genocide (Randy Williams) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 01:46:26 +0000 (UTC) From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <mailto:dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> To: Colleague Dialogue <mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>, Order Ecumenical Community <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience" Message-ID: <mailto:2068938938.10282361.1739065586212@mail.yahoo.com> <2068938938.10282361.1739065586212@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" In his op-ed on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience", Masha Gessen presents ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Trump? as a looming threat. Some may see this article as timely and relevant but I see it as part of Western media?s continuing effort to keep Americans in their bubble. From my possibly recalcitrant point of view from the other side of the world, the Americans are no strangers to anticipatory obedience. Most of them have confronted ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Biden? without a cringe. After electing a warmonger as President who conspired with Netanyahu to make the US a partner in genocide, how much more trying would MAGA be? As long as Americans wail about Trump leading them without acknowledging what has been done in their name over the last four years, they will remain in their bubble while the world looks on with horror.? On Sunday, 9 February 2025 at 07:31:33 am MYT, Ellie Stock via Dialogue <mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Hi Folks,Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience". . .Ellie?elliestock@aol.com <mailto:.Ellie?elliestock@aol.com> ? This op-ed in The NY Times calls on us not to obey in advance:?https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/08/opinion/trump-power-surrender.html?unlock... <https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/08/opinion/trump-power-surrender.html?unlocked_article_code=1.vU4.GN6W.UhwJBG0c4Bv_&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare> &smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
Likewise, Ken
On Feb 17, 2025, at 6:56 AM, James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Thanks, Kevin. A great start for my morning. Jim Wiegel “…the long work of turning their lives into a celebration is not easy. Come and let us talk“.
The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver
On Feb 16, 2025, at 11:58 PM, Kevin Balm via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Dear Colleagues, This past week I facilitated the annual Senior Leadership Team retreat (a planning session in reality) for the UN Economic Commission for Africa. I have been facilitating and training various teams in this institution for 7-8 years now and finally got the opportunity to facilitate the senior most team. Unlike with the counterpart commission for Asia Pacific where I started with the senior team, I had to build up to this opportunity. My equivalent of the Ronin story from the old LENS programs is Parker J Palmer’s writings (and short videos), particularly his piece (attached) on “Finding your Soul” from his book “ Let Your Life Speak: Listening for the Voice of Vocation”. I especially like his Quaker metaphor for a Power Point – the Mobius Strip. I pause reading and demonstrate at this point. As with previous groups, individuals in this senior leadership group wanted to have copies of the reading.
His “Courage to Teach” curriculum reminds me of our “Courage to Lead”. In fact much of Parker J Palmer’s work resonates strongly for me with OE/ICA teachings. The link below is his take on the Trans-establishment Stance.
https://couragerenewal.org/library/hhd-standing-and-acting-in-the-tragic-gap...
Kevin Balm From: OE <oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> On Behalf Of Bill Parker via OE Sent: Monday, 10 February 2025 2:44 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: Bill Parker <bparker1251963@gmail.com>; Richard and Maria Maguire <richardandmaria@unfoldingfutures.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] 1. Re: [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience"
We need a session on “a path forward”. Our specific experience, context, and process understanding is exactly what is needed now.
Bill Parker
On Feb 9, 2025, at 6:59 PM, Richard and Maria Maguire via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
Hi I agree with what Randy, Ken and Dharmalingam say to a great extent, and would like to add something. I believe that most if not all of the people on this list are in great pain about what is going on now and what has been going on for past many decades and even centuries that have led up to the current situation. I know for sure that we have been working for decades to support and entirely new approach to society, but in spite of our efforts and those of millions of others, the powerful close ranks and push forward. We are not alone in having done a lot and also not alone in feeling the pain.
To my mind the Trump clique, both the American and international one, would like to distract their citizens from the attacks on democracy that they and others have been carrying out for a long time. At the same time it seems to me that they would like to push the colonial project on further against the will and wishes of most people. They have grabbed the positions of power in the media, education, productive industry, government and so much more, and would love to go further.
That so many American citizens remain so ignorant of the rest of the world and even most of the rest of their own nation is another great pain, and this continues despite our and many others' significant efforts for many decades. It's so hard to know what do to that will really change the direction.
Yes it is so painful that even though the consequences of "anticipatory obedience" are well known, not least though the events around the Nazi government, that many tend to still do the same probably out of fear of consequences for themselves as well as the pain of having to face up to what's going on and all this again in spite of the dedicated efforts of our selves and so many.
Maria and I have been quite grateful to have discovered and using the insights and meditations of Self-Compassion as developed by Kristin Neff and many others. As I listen to what she says, it is really a practical application of what we have said about the Christ Word, especially, You are accepted, the past is approved, the future is open. This is not about retreat into yourself, but empowering and supporting yourself and others. If this approach is new to you as it was to us, you can learn more at www.self-compassion.org <http://www.self-compassion.org/>.
To get a view into the long term international anti-democratic strategies of the international political and economic elites, I highly recommend The Crisis of Democracy a research project of the TriLateral commission in the late 60's. The "crisis" for them was the rising expectation of people for a more democratic society and they outlined a strategy that you will easily recognize has been going on since the early 70's to shut it down. Reading it is like reading the battle plan of the powerful and privileged to keep the world safe for themselves. It is even available for free online on the Internet Archive
https://ia801308.us.archive.org/23/items/TheCrisisOfDemocracy-TrilateralComm...
On a contemporary note, we have become aware of the Atlas Network, a collaboration of anti-democratic organisations funded largely by fossil fuel billionaires, is also useful. Their strategy is to fund think-tanks around the world, such as the Cato Institute, Heartland Institute in the US and the Institute of Public Affairs in Australia. Their website claims to now have 500 affiliates in over 100 countries.
Adam Smith described these efforts over 200 years ago with a concise phrase in "The Wealth of Nations" , "Whenever these people get together, even for sport or amusement, the public is worse off. The talk is about how to reduce wages and raise prices."
Finally Maria I would like to thank everyone on this list for what you have done for peace and justice in the world, and catalysing awareness and action for so many, in our world, and we have all made a great difference against great odds.
Grace and Peace
Richard
On 10/02/2025 8:01 am, oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Send OE mailing list submissions to oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net>
You can reach the person managing the list at oe-owner@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe-owner@lists.wedgeblade.net>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of OE digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience" (Dharmalingam Vinasithamby) 2. West condones genocide (Ken Fisher) 3. Re: Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience" (RICHARD HOWIE) 4. Re: West condones genocide (Randy Williams)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 01:46:26 +0000 (UTC) From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> <mailto:dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> To: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> <mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience" Message-ID: <2068938938.10282361.1739065586212@mail.yahoo.com> <mailto:2068938938.10282361.1739065586212@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
In his op-ed on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience", Masha Gessen presents ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Trump? as a looming threat. Some may see this article as timely and relevant but I see it as part of Western media?s continuing effort to keep Americans in their bubble. From my possibly recalcitrant point of view from the other side of the world, the Americans are no strangers to anticipatory obedience. Most of them have confronted ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Biden? without a cringe. After electing a warmonger as President who conspired with Netanyahu to make the US a partner in genocide, how much more trying would MAGA be? As long as Americans wail about Trump leading them without acknowledging what has been done in their name over the last four years, they will remain in their bubble while the world looks on with horror.?
On Sunday, 9 February 2025 at 07:31:33 am MYT, Ellie Stock via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> <mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Hi Folks,Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience". . .Ellie?elliestock@aol.com <mailto:.Ellie?elliestock@aol.com>? This op-ed in The NY Times calls on us not to obey in advance:?https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/08/opinion/trump-power-surrender.html?unlocked_article_code=1.vU4.GN6W.UhwJBG0c4Bv_&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
Happy Presidents Day in America! As flawed as all people are, especially presidents, I still celebrate all those who have served in that office while also tolerating their misinformed and misguided decisions and policies. After only a month. however, this current president and his administration have shown us that they will be following the Project 2025 playbook and its far-right agenda. I hope you have had a chance to at least read a summary of it. It is plainly leading us toward autocracy in America. I will put up with a lot from our presidents but I draw the line when it comes to tearing down the democratic form of government! I am determined to hold this government accountable to following the rule of law and the Constitution. I know many of you are too. It's going to be a long four years (maybe longer)! Hang in there!Keep the faith!Carleton StockOberlin, Ohio On Monday, February 17, 2025 at 12:58:25 AM CST, Kevin Balm via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Dear Colleagues, This past week I facilitated the annual Senior Leadership Team retreat (a planning session in reality) for the UN Economic Commission for Africa. I have been facilitating and training various teams in this institution for 7-8 years now and finally got the opportunity to facilitate the senior most team. Unlike with the counterpart commission for Asia Pacific where I started with the senior team, I had to build up to this opportunity. My equivalent of the Ronin story from the old LENS programs is Parker J Palmer’s writings (and short videos), particularly his piece (attached) on “Finding your Soul” from his book “ Let Your Life Speak: Listening for the Voice of Vocation”. I especially like his Quaker metaphor for a Power Point – the Mobius Strip. I pause reading and demonstrate at this point. As with previous groups, individuals in this senior leadership group wanted to have copies of the reading. His “Courage to Teach” curriculum reminds me of our “Courage to Lead”. In fact much of Parker J Palmer’s work resonates strongly for me with OE/ICA teachings. The link below is his take on the Trans-establishment Stance. https://couragerenewal.org/library/hhd-standing-and-acting-in-the-tragic-gap... Kevin Balm From: OE <oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> On Behalf Of Bill Parker via OE Sent: Monday, 10 February 2025 2:44 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: Bill Parker <bparker1251963@gmail.com>; Richard and Maria Maguire <richardandmaria@unfoldingfutures.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] 1. Re: [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience" We need a session on “a path forward”. Our specific experience, context, and process understanding is exactly what is needed now. Bill Parker On Feb 9, 2025, at 6:59 PM, Richard and Maria Maguire via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Hi I agree with what Randy, Ken and Dharmalingam say to a great extent, and would like to add something. I believe that most if not all of the people on this list are in great pain about what is going on now and what has been going on for past many decades and even centuries that have led up to the current situation. I know for sure that we have been working for decades to support and entirely new approach to society, but in spite of our efforts and those of millions of others, the powerful close ranks and push forward. We are not alone in having done a lot and also not alone in feeling the pain. To my mind the Trump clique, both the American and international one, would like to distract their citizens from the attacks on democracy that they and others have been carrying out for a long time. At the same time it seems to me that they would like to push the colonial project on further against the will and wishes of most people. They have grabbed the positions of power in the media, education, productive industry, government and so much more, and would love to go further. That so many American citizens remain so ignorant of the rest of the world and even most of the rest of their own nation is another great pain, and this continues despite our and many others' significant efforts for many decades. It's so hard to know what do to that will really change the direction. Yes it is so painful that even though the consequences of "anticipatory obedience" are well known, not least though the events around the Nazi government, that many tend to still do the same probably out of fear of consequences for themselves as well as the pain of having to face up to what's going on and all this again in spite of the dedicated efforts of our selves and so many. Maria and I have been quite grateful to have discovered and using the insights and meditations of Self-Compassion as developed by Kristin Neff and many others. As I listen to what she says, it is really a practical application of what we have said about the Christ Word, especially, You are accepted, the past is approved, the future is open. This is not about retreat into yourself, but empowering and supporting yourself and others. If this approach is new to you as it was to us, you can learn more at www.self-compassion.org. To get a view into the long term international anti-democratic strategies of the international political and economic elites, I highly recommend The Crisis of Democracy a research project of the TriLateral commission in the late 60's. The "crisis" for them was the rising expectation of people for a more democratic society and they outlined a strategy that you will easily recognize has been going on since the early 70's to shut it down. Reading it is like reading the battle plan of the powerful and privileged to keep the world safe for themselves. It is even available for free online on the Internet Archive https://ia801308.us.archive.org/23/items/TheCrisisOfDemocracy-TrilateralComm... On a contemporary note, we have become aware of the Atlas Network, a collaboration of anti-democratic organisations funded largely by fossil fuel billionaires, is also useful. Their strategy is to fund think-tanks around the world, such as the Cato Institute, Heartland Institute in the US and the Institute of Public Affairs in Australia. Their website claims to now have 500 affiliates in over 100 countries. Adam Smith described these efforts over 200 years ago with a concise phrase in "The Wealth of Nations" , "Whenever these people get together, even for sport or amusement, the public is worse off. The talk is about how to reduce wages and raise prices." Finally Maria I would like to thank everyone on this list for what you have done for peace and justice in the world, and catalysing awareness and action for so many, in our world, and we have all made a great difference against great odds. Grace and Peace Richard On 10/02/2025 8:01 am, oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net wrote: Send OE mailing list submissions to oe@lists.wedgeblade.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.netor, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net You can reach the person managing the list at oe-owner@lists.wedgeblade.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specificthan "Re: Contents of OE digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience" (Dharmalingam Vinasithamby) 2. West condones genocide (Ken Fisher) 3. Re: Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience" (RICHARD HOWIE) 4. Re: West condones genocide (Randy Williams) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 01:46:26 +0000 (UTC)From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com>To: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience"Message-ID: <2068938938.10282361.1739065586212@mail.yahoo.com>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" In his op-ed on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience", Masha Gessen presents ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Trump? as a looming threat. Some may see this article as timely and relevant but I see it as part of Western media?s continuing effort to keep Americans in their bubble. From my possibly recalcitrant point of view from the other side of the world, the Americans are no strangers to anticipatory obedience. Most of them have confronted ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Biden? without a cringe. After electing a warmonger as President who conspired with Netanyahu to make the US a partner in genocide, how much more trying would MAGA be? As long as Americans wail about Trump leading them without acknowledging what has been done in their name over the last four years, they will remain in their bubble while the world looks on with horror.? On Sunday, 9 February 2025 at 07:31:33 am MYT, Ellie Stock via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Hi Folks,Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience". . .Ellie?elliestock@aol.com?This op-ed in The NY Times calls on us not to obey in advance:?https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/08/opinion/trump-power-surrender.html?unlocked_article_code=1.vU4.GN6W.UhwJBG0c4Bv_&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare_______________________________________________Dialogue mailing listDialogue@lists.wedgeblade.nethttp://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net -------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/pipermail/oe-wedgeblade.net/attachments/20250209/fed00768/attachment-0001.htm> ------------------------------ Message: 2Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 00:49:40 -0600From: Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942@gmail.com>To: Dharmalingam Vinasthamby <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com>, "O:E Lists" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>Subject: [Oe List ...] West condones genocideMessage-ID: <A607120F-BD98-4F9B-BAD0-2D49805FCEB5@gmail.com>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" https://open.substack.com/pub/charlieangus/p/trump-and-the-destruction-of-gaza?r=18u6j&utm_medium=ios Jesus wept.-------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/pipermail/oe-wedgeblade.net/attachments/20250209/0731ed16/attachment-0001.htm> ------------------------------ Message: 3Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 06:58:01 -0500From: RICHARD HOWIE <rhowie3@verizon.net>To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience"Message-ID: <3AB29BC2-F90B-4887-8856-103A1D50E042@verizon.net>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Thank You Ellie. Such an important warning .Love, Ellen Sent from my iPad On Feb 8, 2025, at 9:14 PM, Ellie Stock via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: ?Hi Folks,Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience". . .Ellie elliestock@aol.com This op-ed in The NY Times calls on us not to obey in advance: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/08/opinion/trump-power-surrender.html?unlocked_article_code=1.vU4.GN6W.UhwJBG0c4Bv_&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare _______________________________________________OE mailing listOE@lists.wedgeblade.nethttp://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net -------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/pipermail/oe-wedgeblade.net/attachments/20250209/588799dd/attachment-0001.htm> ------------------------------ Message: 4Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 07:53:24 -0500From: Randy Williams <randycw1938@gmail.com>To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>Cc: Dharmalingam Vinasthamby <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com>, "Lists O:E" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>, Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942@gmail.com>Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] West condones genocideMessage-ID: <E46FE122-5133-4B99-85B4-3354DB9E02EB@gmail.com>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I believe what many are saying about Trump, that his prating on and on about invasion, expansion, etc., including in Gaza, is to distract from his systemic dismantling of U.S. democracy. Trump is much more focussed on ethnic cleansing in the U.S. than in the Middle East. His talk about Gaza has the added benefit for him of reestablishing the bonds between him and Netanyahu. I thought the wry smile on Netanyahu?s face when Trump was announcing his ?vision? for Gaza was revealing. If distraction is indeed Trump?s ploy, the media, in the U.S. and internationally, have certainly taken the bait.Randy On Feb 9, 2025, at 1:50?AM, Ken Fisher via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: ?https://open.substack.com/pub/charlieangus/p/trump-and-the-destruction-of-gaza?r=18u6j&utm_medium=ios Jesus wept._______________________________________________OE mailing listOE@lists.wedgeblade.nethttp://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net -------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/pipermail/oe-wedgeblade.net/attachments/20250209/0b8da693/attachment-0001.htm> ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________OE mailing listOE@lists.wedgeblade.nethttp://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net ------------------------------ End of OE Digest, Vol 155, Issue 4********************************** -- <MaguireSignature.jpg> _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Thanks to all for this ongoing dialogue. Carleton mentioned Project 2025; the whole thing is 885 pages. If you want to dive in, you might find this online index helps you find what you're looking for. It links directly to the text. https://www.project2025index.com/ Ronnie On Mon, Feb 17, 2025 at 11:56 AM carletonstock--- via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Happy Presidents Day in America! As flawed as all people are, especially presidents, I still celebrate all those who have served in that office while also tolerating their misinformed and misguided decisions and policies. After only a month. however, this current president and his administration have shown us that they will be following the Project 2025 playbook and its far-right agenda. I hope you have had a chance to at least read a summary of it. It is plainly leading us toward autocracy in America. I will put up with a lot from our presidents but I draw the line when it comes to tearing down the democratic form of government! I am determined to hold this government accountable to following the rule of law and the Constitution. I know many of you are too. It's going to be a long four years (maybe longer)! Hang in there! Keep the faith! Carleton Stock Oberlin, Ohio
On Monday, February 17, 2025 at 12:58:25 AM CST, Kevin Balm via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Dear Colleagues,
This past week I facilitated the annual Senior Leadership Team retreat (a planning session in reality) for the UN Economic Commission for Africa. I have been facilitating and training various teams in this institution for 7-8 years now and finally got the opportunity to facilitate the senior most team. Unlike with the counterpart commission for Asia Pacific where I started with the senior team, I had to build up to this opportunity. My equivalent of the Ronin story from the old LENS programs is Parker J Palmer’s writings (and short videos), particularly his piece (attached) on “Finding your Soul” from his book “ Let Your Life Speak: Listening for the Voice of Vocation”. I especially like his Quaker metaphor for a Power Point – the Mobius Strip. I pause reading and demonstrate at this point. As with previous groups, individuals in this senior leadership group wanted to have copies of the reading.
His “Courage to Teach” curriculum reminds me of our “Courage to Lead”. In fact much of Parker J Palmer’s work resonates strongly for me with OE/ICA teachings. The link below is his take on the Trans-establishment Stance.
https://couragerenewal.org/library/hhd-standing-and-acting-in-the-tragic-gap...
Kevin Balm
*From:* OE <oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> *On Behalf Of *Bill Parker via OE *Sent:* Monday, 10 February 2025 2:44 PM *To:* Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> *Cc:* Bill Parker <bparker1251963@gmail.com>; Richard and Maria Maguire < richardandmaria@unfoldingfutures.net> *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] 1. Re: [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience"
We need a session on “a path forward”. Our specific experience, context, and process understanding is exactly what is needed now.
Bill Parker
On Feb 9, 2025, at 6:59 PM, Richard and Maria Maguire via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Hi
I agree with what Randy, Ken and Dharmalingam say to a great extent, and would like to add something. I believe that most if not all of the people on this list are in great pain about what is going on now and what has been going on for past many decades and even centuries that have led up to the current situation. I know for sure that we have been working for decades to support and entirely new approach to society, but in spite of our efforts and those of millions of others, the powerful close ranks and push forward. We are not alone in having done a lot and also not alone in feeling the pain.
To my mind the Trump clique, both the American and international one, would like to distract their citizens from the attacks on democracy that they and others have been carrying out for a long time. At the same time it seems to me that they would like to push the colonial project on further against the will and wishes of most people. They have grabbed the positions of power in the media, education, productive industry, government and so much more, and would love to go further.
That so many American citizens remain so ignorant of the rest of the world and even most of the rest of their own nation is another great pain, and this continues despite our and many others' significant efforts for many decades. It's so hard to know what do to that will really change the direction.
Yes it is so painful that even though the consequences of "anticipatory obedience" are well known, not least though the events around the Nazi government, that many tend to still do the same probably out of fear of consequences for themselves as well as the pain of having to face up to what's going on and all this again in spite of the dedicated efforts of our selves and so many.
Maria and I have been quite grateful to have discovered and using the insights and meditations of Self-Compassion as developed by Kristin Neff and many others. As I listen to what she says, it is really a practical application of what we have said about the Christ Word, especially, You are accepted, the past is approved, the future is open. This is not about retreat into yourself, but empowering and supporting yourself and others. If this approach is new to you as it was to us, you can learn more at www.self-compassion.org.
To get a view into the long term international anti-democratic strategies of the international political and economic elites, I highly recommend The Crisis of Democracy a research project of the TriLateral commission in the late 60's. The "crisis" for them was the rising expectation of people for a more democratic society and they outlined a strategy that you will easily recognize has been going on since the early 70's to shut it down. Reading it is like reading the battle plan of the powerful and privileged to keep the world safe for themselves. It is even available for free online on the Internet Archive
https://ia801308.us.archive.org/23/items/TheCrisisOfDemocracy-TrilateralComm...
On a contemporary note, we have become aware of the Atlas Network, a collaboration of anti-democratic organisations funded largely by fossil fuel billionaires, is also useful. Their strategy is to fund think-tanks around the world, such as the Cato Institute, Heartland Institute in the US and the Institute of Public Affairs in Australia. Their website claims to now have 500 affiliates in over 100 countries.
Adam Smith described these efforts over 200 years ago with a concise phrase in "The Wealth of Nations" , *"Whenever these people get together, even for sport or amusement, the public is worse off. * The talk is about how to reduce wages and raise prices."
Finally Maria I would like to thank everyone on this list for what you have done for peace and justice in the world, and catalysing awareness and action for so many, in our world, and we have all made a great difference against great odds.
Grace and Peace
Richard
On 10/02/2025 8:01 am, oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net wrote:
Send OE mailing list submissions to
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To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of OE digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of
"anticipatory obedience" (Dharmalingam Vinasithamby)
2. West condones genocide (Ken Fisher)
3. Re: Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory
obedience" (RICHARD HOWIE)
4. Re: West condones genocide (Randy Williams)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 01:46:26 +0000 (UTC)
From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com>
To: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>, Order
Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the
dangers of "anticipatory obedience"
Message-ID: <2068938938.10282361.1739065586212@mail.yahoo.com> <2068938938.10282361.1739065586212@mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
In his op-ed on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience", Masha Gessen presents ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Trump? as a looming threat. Some may see this article as timely and relevant but I see it as part of Western media?s continuing effort to keep Americans in their bubble. From my possibly recalcitrant point of view from the other side of the world, the Americans are no strangers to anticipatory obedience. Most of them have confronted ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Biden? without a cringe. After electing a warmonger as President who conspired with Netanyahu to make the US a partner in genocide, how much more trying would MAGA be? As long as Americans wail about Trump leading them without acknowledging what has been done in their name over the last four years, they will remain in their bubble while the world looks on with horror.?
On Sunday, 9 February 2025 at 07:31:33 am MYT, Ellie Stock via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Hi Folks,Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience". . .Ellie?elliestock@aol.com?
This op-ed in The NY Times calls on us not to obey in advance:?https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/08/opinion/trump-power-surrender.html?unlocked_article_code=1.vU4.GN6W.UhwJBG0c4Bv_&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
_______________________________________________
Dialogue mailing list
Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net
http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
Ronnie, Thank you so much for forwarding and making it available in this way. This is the closest I’ve come to actually reading Project 2025. My sincerest thanks to the people at Autonomy Institute 501(c)(3) that did the indexing and provides it on line. The Autonomy Institute is an independent, progressive research organisation that creates data-driven tools and policy to strengthen democracy and build a fairer economy Ruth
On Feb 17, 2025, at 11:14 AM, Ronnie Seagren via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Thanks to all for this ongoing dialogue.
Carleton mentioned Project 2025; the whole thing is 885 pages. If you want to dive in, you might find this online index helps you find what you're looking for. It links directly to the text. https://www.project2025index.com/ <https://www.project2025index.com/>
Ronnie
On Mon, Feb 17, 2025 at 11:56 AM carletonstock--- via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote: Happy Presidents Day in America! As flawed as all people are, especially presidents, I still celebrate all those who have served in that office while also tolerating their misinformed and misguided decisions and policies. After only a month. however, this current president and his administration have shown us that they will be following the Project 2025 playbook and its far-right agenda. I hope you have had a chance to at least read a summary of it. It is plainly leading us toward autocracy in America. I will put up with a lot from our presidents but I draw the line when it comes to tearing down the democratic form of government! I am determined to hold this government accountable to following the rule of law and the Constitution. I know many of you are too. It's going to be a long four years (maybe longer)! Hang in there! Keep the faith! Carleton Stock Oberlin, Ohio
On Monday, February 17, 2025 at 12:58:25 AM CST, Kevin Balm via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
Dear Colleagues,
This past week I facilitated the annual Senior Leadership Team retreat (a planning session in reality) for the UN Economic Commission for Africa. I have been facilitating and training various teams in this institution for 7-8 years now and finally got the opportunity to facilitate the senior most team. Unlike with the counterpart commission for Asia Pacific where I started with the senior team, I had to build up to this opportunity. My equivalent of the Ronin story from the old LENS programs is Parker J Palmer’s writings (and short videos), particularly his piece (attached) on “Finding your Soul” from his book “ Let Your Life Speak: Listening for the Voice of Vocation”. I especially like his Quaker metaphor for a Power Point – the Mobius Strip. I pause reading and demonstrate at this point. As with previous groups, individuals in this senior leadership group wanted to have copies of the reading.
His “Courage to Teach” curriculum reminds me of our “Courage to Lead”. In fact much of Parker J Palmer’s work resonates strongly for me with OE/ICA teachings. The link below is his take on the Trans-establishment Stance.
https://couragerenewal.org/library/hhd-standing-and-acting-in-the-tragic-gap... <https://couragerenewal.org/library/hhd-standing-and-acting-in-the-tragic-gap/>
Kevin Balm
From: OE <oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net>> On Behalf Of Bill Parker via OE Sent: Monday, 10 February 2025 2:44 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> Cc: Bill Parker <bparker1251963@gmail.com <mailto:bparker1251963@gmail.com>>; Richard and Maria Maguire <richardandmaria@unfoldingfutures.net <mailto:richardandmaria@unfoldingfutures.net>> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] 1. Re: [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience"
We need a session on “a path forward”. Our specific experience, context, and process understanding is exactly what is needed now.
Bill Parker
On Feb 9, 2025, at 6:59 PM, Richard and Maria Maguire via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
Hi
I agree with what Randy, Ken and Dharmalingam say to a great extent, and would like to add something. I believe that most if not all of the people on this list are in great pain about what is going on now and what has been going on for past many decades and even centuries that have led up to the current situation. I know for sure that we have been working for decades to support and entirely new approach to society, but in spite of our efforts and those of millions of others, the powerful close ranks and push forward. We are not alone in having done a lot and also not alone in feeling the pain.
To my mind the Trump clique, both the American and international one, would like to distract their citizens from the attacks on democracy that they and others have been carrying out for a long time. At the same time it seems to me that they would like to push the colonial project on further against the will and wishes of most people. They have grabbed the positions of power in the media, education, productive industry, government and so much more, and would love to go further.
That so many American citizens remain so ignorant of the rest of the world and even most of the rest of their own nation is another great pain, and this continues despite our and many others' significant efforts for many decades. It's so hard to know what do to that will really change the direction.
Yes it is so painful that even though the consequences of "anticipatory obedience" are well known, not least though the events around the Nazi government, that many tend to still do the same probably out of fear of consequences for themselves as well as the pain of having to face up to what's going on and all this again in spite of the dedicated efforts of our selves and so many.
Maria and I have been quite grateful to have discovered and using the insights and meditations of Self-Compassion as developed by Kristin Neff and many others. As I listen to what she says, it is really a practical application of what we have said about the Christ Word, especially, You are accepted, the past is approved, the future is open. This is not about retreat into yourself, but empowering and supporting yourself and others. If this approach is new to you as it was to us, you can learn more at www.self-compassion.org <http://www.self-compassion.org/>.
To get a view into the long term international anti-democratic strategies of the international political and economic elites, I highly recommend The Crisis of Democracy a research project of the TriLateral commission in the late 60's. The "crisis" for them was the rising expectation of people for a more democratic society and they outlined a strategy that you will easily recognize has been going on since the early 70's to shut it down. Reading it is like reading the battle plan of the powerful and privileged to keep the world safe for themselves. It is even available for free online on the Internet Archive
https://ia801308.us.archive.org/23/items/TheCrisisOfDemocracy-TrilateralComm... <https://ia801308.us.archive.org/23/items/TheCrisisOfDemocracy-TrilateralCommission-1975/crisis_of_democracy_text.pdf> On a contemporary note, we have become aware of the Atlas Network, a collaboration of anti-democratic organisations funded largely by fossil fuel billionaires, is also useful. Their strategy is to fund think-tanks around the world, such as the Cato Institute, Heartland Institute in the US and the Institute of Public Affairs in Australia. Their website claims to now have 500 affiliates in over 100 countries.
Adam Smith described these efforts over 200 years ago with a concise phrase in "The Wealth of Nations" , "Whenever these people get together, even for sport or amusement, the public is worse off. The talk is about how to reduce wages and raise prices."
Finally Maria I would like to thank everyone on this list for what you have done for peace and justice in the world, and catalysing awareness and action for so many, in our world, and we have all made a great difference against great odds.
Grace and Peace
Richard
On 10/02/2025 8:01 am, oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Send OE mailing list submissions to oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net>
You can reach the person managing the list at oe-owner@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe-owner@lists.wedgeblade.net>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of OE digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience" (Dharmalingam Vinasithamby) 2. West condones genocide (Ken Fisher) 3. Re: Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience" (RICHARD HOWIE) 4. Re: West condones genocide (Randy Williams)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 01:46:26 +0000 (UTC) From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> <mailto:dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> To: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> <mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience" Message-ID: <2068938938.10282361.1739065586212@mail.yahoo.com> <mailto:2068938938.10282361.1739065586212@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
In his op-ed on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience", Masha Gessen presents ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Trump? as a looming threat. Some may see this article as timely and relevant but I see it as part of Western media?s continuing effort to keep Americans in their bubble. From my possibly recalcitrant point of view from the other side of the world, the Americans are no strangers to anticipatory obedience. Most of them have confronted ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Biden? without a cringe. After electing a warmonger as President who conspired with Netanyahu to make the US a partner in genocide, how much more trying would MAGA be? As long as Americans wail about Trump leading them without acknowledging what has been done in their name over the last four years, they will remain in their bubble while the world looks on with horror.?
On Sunday, 9 February 2025 at 07:31:33 am MYT, Ellie Stock via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> <mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Hi Folks,Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience". . .Ellie?elliestock@aol.com <mailto:.Ellie?elliestock@aol.com>? This op-ed in The NY Times calls on us not to obey in advance:?https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/08/opinion/trump-power-surrender.html?unlocked_article_code=1.vU4.GN6W.UhwJBG0c4Bv_&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare <https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/08/opinion/trump-power-surrender.html?unlocked_article_code=1.vU4.GN6W.UhwJBG0c4Bv_&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare> _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net>
and to colleagues in the American Society of Indexers who are obsessed with the ability to find what's important. Ronnie On Mon, Feb 17, 2025 at 3:23 PM Ruth Gilbert <ruthhgilbert@gmail.com> wrote:
Ronnie, Thank you so much for forwarding and making it available in this way. This is the closest I’ve come to actually reading Project 2025.
My sincerest thanks to the people at Autonomy Institute 501(c)(3) that did the indexing and provides it on line.
The Autonomy Institute is an independent, progressive research organisation that creates data-driven tools and policy to strengthen democracy and build a fairer economy
Ruth
On Feb 17, 2025, at 11:14 AM, Ronnie Seagren via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Thanks to all for this ongoing dialogue.
Carleton mentioned Project 2025; the whole thing is 885 pages. If you want to dive in, you might find this online index helps you find what you're looking for. It links directly to the text. https://www.project2025index.com/
Ronnie
On Mon, Feb 17, 2025 at 11:56 AM carletonstock--- via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Happy Presidents Day in America! As flawed as all people are, especially presidents, I still celebrate all those who have served in that office while also tolerating their misinformed and misguided decisions and policies. After only a month. however, this current president and his administration have shown us that they will be following the Project 2025 playbook and its far-right agenda. I hope you have had a chance to at least read a summary of it. It is plainly leading us toward autocracy in America. I will put up with a lot from our presidents but I draw the line when it comes to tearing down the democratic form of government! I am determined to hold this government accountable to following the rule of law and the Constitution. I know many of you are too. It's going to be a long four years (maybe longer)! Hang in there! Keep the faith! Carleton Stock Oberlin, Ohio
On Monday, February 17, 2025 at 12:58:25 AM CST, Kevin Balm via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Dear Colleagues,
This past week I facilitated the annual Senior Leadership Team retreat (a planning session in reality) for the UN Economic Commission for Africa. I have been facilitating and training various teams in this institution for 7-8 years now and finally got the opportunity to facilitate the senior most team. Unlike with the counterpart commission for Asia Pacific where I started with the senior team, I had to build up to this opportunity. My equivalent of the Ronin story from the old LENS programs is Parker J Palmer’s writings (and short videos), particularly his piece (attached) on “Finding your Soul” from his book “ Let Your Life Speak: Listening for the Voice of Vocation”. I especially like his Quaker metaphor for a Power Point – the Mobius Strip. I pause reading and demonstrate at this point. As with previous groups, individuals in this senior leadership group wanted to have copies of the reading.
His “Courage to Teach” curriculum reminds me of our “Courage to Lead”. In fact much of Parker J Palmer’s work resonates strongly for me with OE/ICA teachings. The link below is his take on the Trans-establishment Stance.
https://couragerenewal.org/library/hhd-standing-and-acting-in-the-tragic-gap...
Kevin Balm
*From:* OE <oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> *On Behalf Of *Bill Parker via OE *Sent:* Monday, 10 February 2025 2:44 PM *To:* Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> *Cc:* Bill Parker <bparker1251963@gmail.com>; Richard and Maria Maguire < richardandmaria@unfoldingfutures.net> *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] 1. Re: [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience"
We need a session on “a path forward”. Our specific experience, context, and process understanding is exactly what is needed now.
Bill Parker
On Feb 9, 2025, at 6:59 PM, Richard and Maria Maguire via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Hi
I agree with what Randy, Ken and Dharmalingam say to a great extent, and would like to add something. I believe that most if not all of the people on this list are in great pain about what is going on now and what has been going on for past many decades and even centuries that have led up to the current situation. I know for sure that we have been working for decades to support and entirely new approach to society, but in spite of our efforts and those of millions of others, the powerful close ranks and push forward. We are not alone in having done a lot and also not alone in feeling the pain.
To my mind the Trump clique, both the American and international one, would like to distract their citizens from the attacks on democracy that they and others have been carrying out for a long time. At the same time it seems to me that they would like to push the colonial project on further against the will and wishes of most people. They have grabbed the positions of power in the media, education, productive industry, government and so much more, and would love to go further.
That so many American citizens remain so ignorant of the rest of the world and even most of the rest of their own nation is another great pain, and this continues despite our and many others' significant efforts for many decades. It's so hard to know what do to that will really change the direction.
Yes it is so painful that even though the consequences of "anticipatory obedience" are well known, not least though the events around the Nazi government, that many tend to still do the same probably out of fear of consequences for themselves as well as the pain of having to face up to what's going on and all this again in spite of the dedicated efforts of our selves and so many.
Maria and I have been quite grateful to have discovered and using the insights and meditations of Self-Compassion as developed by Kristin Neff and many others. As I listen to what she says, it is really a practical application of what we have said about the Christ Word, especially, You are accepted, the past is approved, the future is open. This is not about retreat into yourself, but empowering and supporting yourself and others. If this approach is new to you as it was to us, you can learn more at www.self-compassion.org.
To get a view into the long term international anti-democratic strategies of the international political and economic elites, I highly recommend The Crisis of Democracy a research project of the TriLateral commission in the late 60's. The "crisis" for them was the rising expectation of people for a more democratic society and they outlined a strategy that you will easily recognize has been going on since the early 70's to shut it down. Reading it is like reading the battle plan of the powerful and privileged to keep the world safe for themselves. It is even available for free online on the Internet Archive
https://ia801308.us.archive.org/23/items/TheCrisisOfDemocracy-TrilateralComm...
On a contemporary note, we have become aware of the Atlas Network, a collaboration of anti-democratic organisations funded largely by fossil fuel billionaires, is also useful. Their strategy is to fund think-tanks around the world, such as the Cato Institute, Heartland Institute in the US and the Institute of Public Affairs in Australia. Their website claims to now have 500 affiliates in over 100 countries.
Adam Smith described these efforts over 200 years ago with a concise phrase in "The Wealth of Nations" , *"Whenever these people get together, even for sport or amusement, the public is worse off. * The talk is about how to reduce wages and raise prices."
Finally Maria I would like to thank everyone on this list for what you have done for peace and justice in the world, and catalysing awareness and action for so many, in our world, and we have all made a great difference against great odds.
Grace and Peace
Richard
On 10/02/2025 8:01 am, oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of
"anticipatory obedience" (Dharmalingam Vinasithamby)
2. West condones genocide (Ken Fisher)
3. Re: Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory
obedience" (RICHARD HOWIE)
4. Re: West condones genocide (Randy Williams)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 01:46:26 +0000 (UTC)
From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com>
To: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>, Order
Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the
dangers of "anticipatory obedience"
Message-ID: <2068938938.10282361.1739065586212@mail.yahoo.com> <2068938938.10282361.1739065586212@mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
In his op-ed on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience", Masha Gessen presents ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Trump? as a looming threat. Some may see this article as timely and relevant but I see it as part of Western media?s continuing effort to keep Americans in their bubble. >From my possibly recalcitrant point of view from the other side of the world, the Americans are no strangers to anticipatory obedience. Most of them have confronted ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Biden? without a cringe. After electing a warmonger as President who conspired with Netanyahu to make the US a partner in genocide, how much more trying would MAGA be? As long as Americans wail about Trump leading them without acknowledging what has been done in their name over the last four years, they will remain in their bubble while the world looks on with horror.?
On Sunday, 9 February 2025 at 07:31:33 am MYT, Ellie Stock via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Hi Folks,Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience". . .Ellie?elliestock@aol.com?
This op-ed in The NY Times calls on us not to obey in advance:?https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/08/opinion/trump-power-surrender.html?unlocked_article_code=1.vU4.GN6W.UhwJBG0c4Bv_&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
_______________________________________________
Dialogue mailing list
Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net
http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
Dear Kevin,Thank you for sharing this video of Palmer's with us. This is indeed talking about the social pioneer and the transestablishment style. I will share it with some of the Courage to Lead guides.Jeanette Stanfield Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network. -------- Original message --------From: Kevin Balm via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Date: 2025-02-17 1:58 a.m. (GMT-05:00) To: 'Order Ecumenical Community' <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: balmkevin@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Parker J Palmer's Standing in the Tragic Gap Dear Colleagues,This past week I facilitated the annual Senior Leadership Team retreat (a planning session in reality) for the UN Economic Commission for Africa. I have been facilitating and training various teams in this institution for 7-8 years now and finally got the opportunity to facilitate the senior most team. Unlike with the counterpart commission for Asia Pacific where I started with the senior team, I had to build up to this opportunity. My equivalent of the Ronin story from the old LENS programs is Parker J Palmer’s writings (and short videos), particularly his piece (attached) on “Finding your Soul” from his book “ Let Your Life Speak: Listening for the Voice of Vocation”. I especially like his Quaker metaphor for a Power Point – the Mobius Strip. I pause reading and demonstrate at this point. As with previous groups, individuals in this senior leadership group wanted to have copies of the reading. His “Courage to Teach” curriculum reminds me of our “Courage to Lead”. In fact much of Parker J Palmer’s work resonates strongly for me with OE/ICA teachings. The link below is his take on the Trans-establishment Stance. https://couragerenewal.org/library/hhd-standing-and-acting-in-the-tragic-gap... Kevin BalmFrom: OE <oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> On Behalf Of Bill Parker via OESent: Monday, 10 February 2025 2:44 PMTo: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>Cc: Bill Parker <bparker1251963@gmail.com>; Richard and Maria Maguire <richardandmaria@unfoldingfutures.net>Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] 1. Re: [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience" We need a session on “a path forward”. Our specific experience, context, and process understanding is exactly what is needed now. Bill Parker On Feb 9, 2025, at 6:59 PM, Richard and Maria Maguire via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Hi I agree with what Randy, Ken and Dharmalingam say to a great extent, and would like to add something. I believe that most if not all of the people on this list are in great pain about what is going on now and what has been going on for past many decades and even centuries that have led up to the current situation. I know for sure that we have been working for decades to support and entirely new approach to society, but in spite of our efforts and those of millions of others, the powerful close ranks and push forward. We are not alone in having done a lot and also not alone in feeling the pain.To my mind the Trump clique, both the American and international one, would like to distract their citizens from the attacks on democracy that they and others have been carrying out for a long time. At the same time it seems to me that they would like to push the colonial project on further against the will and wishes of most people. They have grabbed the positions of power in the media, education, productive industry, government and so much more, and would love to go further.That so many American citizens remain so ignorant of the rest of the world and even most of the rest of their own nation is another great pain, and this continues despite our and many others' significant efforts for many decades. It's so hard to know what do to that will really change the direction.Yes it is so painful that even though the consequences of "anticipatory obedience" are well known, not least though the events around the Nazi government, that many tend to still do the same probably out of fear of consequences for themselves as well as the pain of having to face up to what's going on and all this again in spite of the dedicated efforts of our selves and so many.Maria and I have been quite grateful to have discovered and using the insights and meditations of Self-Compassion as developed by Kristin Neff and many others. As I listen to what she says, it is really a practical application of what we have said about the Christ Word, especially, You are accepted, the past is approved, the future is open. This is not about retreat into yourself, but empowering and supporting yourself and others. If this approach is new to you as it was to us, you can learn more at www.self-compassion.org. To get a view into the long term international anti-democratic strategies of the international political and economic elites, I highly recommend The Crisis of Democracy a research project of the TriLateral commission in the late 60's. The "crisis" for them was the rising expectation of people for a more democratic society and they outlined a strategy that you will easily recognize has been going on since the early 70's to shut it down. Reading it is like reading the battle plan of the powerful and privileged to keep the world safe for themselves. It is even available for free online on the Internet Archive https://ia801308.us.archive.org/23/items/TheCrisisOfDemocracy-TrilateralComm... a contemporary note, we have become aware of the Atlas Network, a collaboration of anti-democratic organisations funded largely by fossil fuel billionaires, is also useful. Their strategy is to fund think-tanks around the world, such as the Cato Institute, Heartland Institute in the US and the Institute of Public Affairs in Australia. Their website claims to now have 500 affiliates in over 100 countries.Adam Smith described these efforts over 200 years ago with a concise phrase in "The Wealth of Nations" , "Whenever these people get together, even for sport or amusement, the public is worse off. The talk is about how to reduce wages and raise prices."Finally Maria I would like to thank everyone on this list for what you have done for peace and justice in the world, and catalysing awareness and action for so many, in our world, and we have all made a great difference against great odds.Grace and PeaceRichard On 10/02/2025 8:01 am, oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net wrote:Send OE mailing list submissions to oe@lists.wedgeblade.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.netor, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net You can reach the person managing the list at oe-owner@lists.wedgeblade.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specificthan "Re: Contents of OE digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience" (Dharmalingam Vinasithamby) 2. West condones genocide (Ken Fisher) 3. Re: Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience" (RICHARD HOWIE) 4. Re: West condones genocide (Randy Williams) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 01:46:26 +0000 (UTC)From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com>To: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience"Message-ID: <2068938938.10282361.1739065586212@mail.yahoo.com>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" In his op-ed on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience", Masha Gessen presents ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Trump? as a looming threat. Some may see this article as timely and relevant but I see it as part of Western media?s continuing effort to keep Americans in their bubble. From my possibly recalcitrant point of view from the other side of the world, the Americans are no strangers to anticipatory obedience. Most of them have confronted ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Biden? without a cringe. After electing a warmonger as President who conspired with Netanyahu to make the US a partner in genocide, how much more trying would MAGA be? As long as Americans wail about Trump leading them without acknowledging what has been done in their name over the last four years, they will remain in their bubble while the world looks on with horror.? On Sunday, 9 February 2025 at 07:31:33 am MYT, Ellie Stock via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Hi Folks,Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience". . .Ellie?elliestock@aol.com?This op-ed in The NY Times calls on us not to obey in advance:?https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/08/opinion/trump-power-surrender.html?unlocked_article_code=1.vU4.GN6W.UhwJBG0c4Bv_&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare_______________________________________________Dialogue mailing listDialogue@lists.wedgeblade.nethttp://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net -------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/pipermail/oe-wedgeblade.net/attachments/20250209/fed00768/attachment-0001.htm> ------------------------------ Message: 2Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 00:49:40 -0600From: Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942@gmail.com>To: Dharmalingam Vinasthamby <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com>, "O:E Lists" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>Subject: [Oe List ...] West condones genocideMessage-ID: <A607120F-BD98-4F9B-BAD0-2D49805FCEB5@gmail.com>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" https://open.substack.com/pub/charlieangus/p/trump-and-the-destruction-of-gaza?r=18u6j&utm_medium=ios Jesus wept.-------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/pipermail/oe-wedgeblade.net/attachments/20250209/0731ed16/attachment-0001.htm> ------------------------------ Message: 3Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 06:58:01 -0500From: RICHARD HOWIE <rhowie3@verizon.net>To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience"Message-ID: <3AB29BC2-F90B-4887-8856-103A1D50E042@verizon.net>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Thank You Ellie. Such an important warning .Love, Ellen Sent from my iPad On Feb 8, 2025, at 9:14 PM, Ellie Stock via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: ?Hi Folks,Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience". . .Ellie elliestock@aol.com This op-ed in The NY Times calls on us not to obey in advance: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/08/opinion/trump-power-surrender.html?unlocked_article_code=1.vU4.GN6W.UhwJBG0c4Bv_&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare _______________________________________________OE mailing listOE@lists.wedgeblade.nethttp://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net-------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/pipermail/oe-wedgeblade.net/attachments/20250209/588799dd/attachment-0001.htm> ------------------------------ Message: 4Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 07:53:24 -0500From: Randy Williams <randycw1938@gmail.com>To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>Cc: Dharmalingam Vinasthamby <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com>, "Lists O:E" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>, Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942@gmail.com>Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] West condones genocideMessage-ID: <E46FE122-5133-4B99-85B4-3354DB9E02EB@gmail.com>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I believe what many are saying about Trump, that his prating on and on about invasion, expansion, etc., including in Gaza, is to distract from his systemic dismantling of U.S. democracy. Trump is much more focussed on ethnic cleansing in the U.S. than in the Middle East. His talk about Gaza has the added benefit for him of reestablishing the bonds between him and Netanyahu. I thought the wry smile on Netanyahu?s face when Trump was announcing his ?vision? for Gaza was revealing. If distraction is indeed Trump?s ploy, the media, in the U.S. and internationally, have certainly taken the bait.Randy On Feb 9, 2025, at 1:50?AM, Ken Fisher via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: ?https://open.substack.com/pub/charlieangus/p/trump-and-the-destruction-of-gaza?r=18u6j&utm_medium=ios Jesus wept._______________________________________________OE mailing listOE@lists.wedgeblade.nethttp://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net-------------- next part --------------An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/pipermail/oe-wedgeblade.net/attachments/20250209/0b8da693/attachment-0001.htm> ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________OE mailing listOE@lists.wedgeblade.nethttp://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net ------------------------------ End of OE Digest, Vol 155, Issue 4**********************************-- <MaguireSignature.jpg>_______________________________________________OE mailing listOE@lists.wedgeblade.nethttp://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Kevin, Thank you for sharing Parker’s work. His book, Healing the Heart of Democracy was helpful to me as I canvassed & phone banked in Sept & Oct. Parker’s Center has several remote & in person courses centered around the “Courage to Lead”. https://couragerenewal.org/?s=Courage+to+lead He collaborates with a singer/songwriter, Carrie Newcomer. I have adopted her song, “Room at the Table”. As my anthem. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92OM5bdQ4N4 With Rebellious Hope, Paula Personal Mission Statement: *I nurture love, peace & harmony in every situation for my caring family, disempowered communities, and our precious planet.* On Mon, Feb 17, 2025 at 12:16 PM jstanfieldica via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Dear Kevin, Thank you for sharing this video of Palmer's with us. This is indeed talking about the social pioneer and the transestablishment style. I will share it with some of the Courage to Lead guides.
Jeanette Stanfield
Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network.
-------- Original message -------- From: Kevin Balm via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Date: 2025-02-17 1:58 a.m. (GMT-05:00) To: 'Order Ecumenical Community' <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: balmkevin@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Parker J Palmer's Standing in the Tragic Gap
Dear Colleagues,
This past week I facilitated the annual Senior Leadership Team retreat (a planning session in reality) for the UN Economic Commission for Africa. I have been facilitating and training various teams in this institution for 7-8 years now and finally got the opportunity to facilitate the senior most team. Unlike with the counterpart commission for Asia Pacific where I started with the senior team, I had to build up to this opportunity. My equivalent of the Ronin story from the old LENS programs is Parker J Palmer’s writings (and short videos), particularly his piece (attached) on “Finding your Soul” from his book “ Let Your Life Speak: Listening for the Voice of Vocation”. I especially like his Quaker metaphor for a Power Point – the Mobius Strip. I pause reading and demonstrate at this point. As with previous groups, individuals in this senior leadership group wanted to have copies of the reading.
His “Courage to Teach” curriculum reminds me of our “Courage to Lead”. In fact much of Parker J Palmer’s work resonates strongly for me with OE/ICA teachings. The link below is his take on the Trans-establishment Stance.
https://couragerenewal.org/library/hhd-standing-and-acting-in-the-tragic-gap...
Kevin Balm
*From:* OE <oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> *On Behalf Of *Bill Parker via OE *Sent:* Monday, 10 February 2025 2:44 PM *To:* Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> *Cc:* Bill Parker <bparker1251963@gmail.com>; Richard and Maria Maguire < richardandmaria@unfoldingfutures.net> *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] 1. Re: [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience"
We need a session on “a path forward”. Our specific experience, context, and process understanding is exactly what is needed now.
Bill Parker
On Feb 9, 2025, at 6:59 PM, Richard and Maria Maguire via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Hi
I agree with what Randy, Ken and Dharmalingam say to a great extent, and would like to add something. I believe that most if not all of the people on this list are in great pain about what is going on now and what has been going on for past many decades and even centuries that have led up to the current situation. I know for sure that we have been working for decades to support and entirely new approach to society, but in spite of our efforts and those of millions of others, the powerful close ranks and push forward. We are not alone in having done a lot and also not alone in feeling the pain.
To my mind the Trump clique, both the American and international one, would like to distract their citizens from the attacks on democracy that they and others have been carrying out for a long time. At the same time it seems to me that they would like to push the colonial project on further against the will and wishes of most people. They have grabbed the positions of power in the media, education, productive industry, government and so much more, and would love to go further.
That so many American citizens remain so ignorant of the rest of the world and even most of the rest of their own nation is another great pain, and this continues despite our and many others' significant efforts for many decades. It's so hard to know what do to that will really change the direction.
Yes it is so painful that even though the consequences of "anticipatory obedience" are well known, not least though the events around the Nazi government, that many tend to still do the same probably out of fear of consequences for themselves as well as the pain of having to face up to what's going on and all this again in spite of the dedicated efforts of our selves and so many.
Maria and I have been quite grateful to have discovered and using the insights and meditations of Self-Compassion as developed by Kristin Neff and many others. As I listen to what she says, it is really a practical application of what we have said about the Christ Word, especially, You are accepted, the past is approved, the future is open. This is not about retreat into yourself, but empowering and supporting yourself and others. If this approach is new to you as it was to us, you can learn more at www.self-compassion.org.
To get a view into the long term international anti-democratic strategies of the international political and economic elites, I highly recommend The Crisis of Democracy a research project of the TriLateral commission in the late 60's. The "crisis" for them was the rising expectation of people for a more democratic society and they outlined a strategy that you will easily recognize has been going on since the early 70's to shut it down. Reading it is like reading the battle plan of the powerful and privileged to keep the world safe for themselves. It is even available for free online on the Internet Archive
https://ia801308.us.archive.org/23/items/TheCrisisOfDemocracy-TrilateralComm...
On a contemporary note, we have become aware of the Atlas Network, a collaboration of anti-democratic organisations funded largely by fossil fuel billionaires, is also useful. Their strategy is to fund think-tanks around the world, such as the Cato Institute, Heartland Institute in the US and the Institute of Public Affairs in Australia. Their website claims to now have 500 affiliates in over 100 countries.
Adam Smith described these efforts over 200 years ago with a concise phrase in "The Wealth of Nations" , *"Whenever these people get together, even for sport or amusement, the public is worse off. * The talk is about how to reduce wages and raise prices."
Finally Maria I would like to thank everyone on this list for what you have done for peace and justice in the world, and catalysing awareness and action for so many, in our world, and we have all made a great difference against great odds.
Grace and Peace
Richard
On 10/02/2025 8:01 am, oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net wrote:
Send OE mailing list submissions to
oe@lists.wedgeblade.net
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net
You can reach the person managing the list at
oe-owner@lists.wedgeblade.net
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of OE digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of
"anticipatory obedience" (Dharmalingam Vinasithamby)
2. West condones genocide (Ken Fisher)
3. Re: Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory
obedience" (RICHARD HOWIE)
4. Re: West condones genocide (Randy Williams)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 01:46:26 +0000 (UTC)
From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com>
To: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>, Order
Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the
dangers of "anticipatory obedience"
Message-ID: <2068938938.10282361.1739065586212@mail.yahoo.com> <2068938938.10282361.1739065586212@mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
In his op-ed on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience", Masha Gessen presents ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Trump? as a looming threat. Some may see this article as timely and relevant but I see it as part of Western media?s continuing effort to keep Americans in their bubble. From my possibly recalcitrant point of view from the other side of the world, the Americans are no strangers to anticipatory obedience. Most of them have confronted ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Biden? without a cringe. After electing a warmonger as President who conspired with Netanyahu to make the US a partner in genocide, how much more trying would MAGA be? As long as Americans wail about Trump leading them without acknowledging what has been done in their name over the last four years, they will remain in their bubble while the world looks on with horror.?
On Sunday, 9 February 2025 at 07:31:33 am MYT, Ellie Stock via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Hi Folks,Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience". . .Ellie?elliestock@aol.com?
This op-ed in The NY Times calls on us not to obey in advance:?https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/08/opinion/trump-power-surrender.html?unlocked_article_code=1.vU4.GN6W.UhwJBG0c4Bv_&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
_______________________________________________
Dialogue mailing list
Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net
http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
Oh, Paula, that warmed me up on a VERY cold Colorado February day. Thank you! *Sunny Walker * *She/her/hers* *On **Arapaho, Cheyenne, Núu-agha-tʉvʉ-pʉ̱ (Ute), and Očeti Šakówiŋ (Sioux) tribal land* Certified Facilitator (Also Certified ToP Facilitator) ToP Methods Mentor Trainer - Upcoming Courses <https://www.top-training.net/w/> Virtual Facilitation Collaborative Senior Facilitator sunny.sunwalker@gmail.com 303-587-3017 For diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging inquiries: sunny@diversityinnovators.com www.diversityinnovators.com For virtual facilitation inquiries: sunny@virtualfacilitationcollaborative.com www.virtualfacilitationcollaborative.com On Mon, Feb 17, 2025 at 11:32 AM Paula Philbrook via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Kevin, Thank you for sharing Parker’s work. His book, Healing the Heart of Democracy was helpful to me as I canvassed & phone banked in Sept & Oct.
Parker’s Center has several remote & in person courses centered around the “Courage to Lead”. https://couragerenewal.org/?s=Courage+to+lead
He collaborates with a singer/songwriter, Carrie Newcomer. I have adopted her song, “Room at the Table”. As my anthem. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92OM5bdQ4N4
With Rebellious Hope,
Paula
Personal Mission Statement: *I nurture love, peace & harmony in every situation for my caring family, disempowered communities, and our precious planet.*
On Mon, Feb 17, 2025 at 12:16 PM jstanfieldica via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Dear Kevin, Thank you for sharing this video of Palmer's with us. This is indeed talking about the social pioneer and the transestablishment style. I will share it with some of the Courage to Lead guides.
Jeanette Stanfield
Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network.
-------- Original message -------- From: Kevin Balm via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Date: 2025-02-17 1:58 a.m. (GMT-05:00) To: 'Order Ecumenical Community' <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: balmkevin@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Parker J Palmer's Standing in the Tragic Gap
Dear Colleagues,
This past week I facilitated the annual Senior Leadership Team retreat (a planning session in reality) for the UN Economic Commission for Africa. I have been facilitating and training various teams in this institution for 7-8 years now and finally got the opportunity to facilitate the senior most team. Unlike with the counterpart commission for Asia Pacific where I started with the senior team, I had to build up to this opportunity. My equivalent of the Ronin story from the old LENS programs is Parker J Palmer’s writings (and short videos), particularly his piece (attached) on “Finding your Soul” from his book “ Let Your Life Speak: Listening for the Voice of Vocation”. I especially like his Quaker metaphor for a Power Point – the Mobius Strip. I pause reading and demonstrate at this point. As with previous groups, individuals in this senior leadership group wanted to have copies of the reading.
His “Courage to Teach” curriculum reminds me of our “Courage to Lead”. In fact much of Parker J Palmer’s work resonates strongly for me with OE/ICA teachings. The link below is his take on the Trans-establishment Stance.
https://couragerenewal.org/library/hhd-standing-and-acting-in-the-tragic-gap...
Kevin Balm
*From:* OE <oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> *On Behalf Of *Bill Parker via OE *Sent:* Monday, 10 February 2025 2:44 PM *To:* Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> *Cc:* Bill Parker <bparker1251963@gmail.com>; Richard and Maria Maguire < richardandmaria@unfoldingfutures.net> *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] 1. Re: [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience"
We need a session on “a path forward”. Our specific experience, context, and process understanding is exactly what is needed now.
Bill Parker
On Feb 9, 2025, at 6:59 PM, Richard and Maria Maguire via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Hi
I agree with what Randy, Ken and Dharmalingam say to a great extent, and would like to add something. I believe that most if not all of the people on this list are in great pain about what is going on now and what has been going on for past many decades and even centuries that have led up to the current situation. I know for sure that we have been working for decades to support and entirely new approach to society, but in spite of our efforts and those of millions of others, the powerful close ranks and push forward. We are not alone in having done a lot and also not alone in feeling the pain.
To my mind the Trump clique, both the American and international one, would like to distract their citizens from the attacks on democracy that they and others have been carrying out for a long time. At the same time it seems to me that they would like to push the colonial project on further against the will and wishes of most people. They have grabbed the positions of power in the media, education, productive industry, government and so much more, and would love to go further.
That so many American citizens remain so ignorant of the rest of the world and even most of the rest of their own nation is another great pain, and this continues despite our and many others' significant efforts for many decades. It's so hard to know what do to that will really change the direction.
Yes it is so painful that even though the consequences of "anticipatory obedience" are well known, not least though the events around the Nazi government, that many tend to still do the same probably out of fear of consequences for themselves as well as the pain of having to face up to what's going on and all this again in spite of the dedicated efforts of our selves and so many.
Maria and I have been quite grateful to have discovered and using the insights and meditations of Self-Compassion as developed by Kristin Neff and many others. As I listen to what she says, it is really a practical application of what we have said about the Christ Word, especially, You are accepted, the past is approved, the future is open. This is not about retreat into yourself, but empowering and supporting yourself and others. If this approach is new to you as it was to us, you can learn more at www.self-compassion.org.
To get a view into the long term international anti-democratic strategies of the international political and economic elites, I highly recommend The Crisis of Democracy a research project of the TriLateral commission in the late 60's. The "crisis" for them was the rising expectation of people for a more democratic society and they outlined a strategy that you will easily recognize has been going on since the early 70's to shut it down. Reading it is like reading the battle plan of the powerful and privileged to keep the world safe for themselves. It is even available for free online on the Internet Archive
https://ia801308.us.archive.org/23/items/TheCrisisOfDemocracy-TrilateralComm...
On a contemporary note, we have become aware of the Atlas Network, a collaboration of anti-democratic organisations funded largely by fossil fuel billionaires, is also useful. Their strategy is to fund think-tanks around the world, such as the Cato Institute, Heartland Institute in the US and the Institute of Public Affairs in Australia. Their website claims to now have 500 affiliates in over 100 countries.
Adam Smith described these efforts over 200 years ago with a concise phrase in "The Wealth of Nations" , *"Whenever these people get together, even for sport or amusement, the public is worse off. * The talk is about how to reduce wages and raise prices."
Finally Maria I would like to thank everyone on this list for what you have done for peace and justice in the world, and catalysing awareness and action for so many, in our world, and we have all made a great difference against great odds.
Grace and Peace
Richard
On 10/02/2025 8:01 am, oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net wrote:
Send OE mailing list submissions to
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of
"anticipatory obedience" (Dharmalingam Vinasithamby)
2. West condones genocide (Ken Fisher)
3. Re: Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory
obedience" (RICHARD HOWIE)
4. Re: West condones genocide (Randy Williams)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 01:46:26 +0000 (UTC)
From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com>
To: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>, Order
Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the
dangers of "anticipatory obedience"
Message-ID: <2068938938.10282361.1739065586212@mail.yahoo.com> <2068938938.10282361.1739065586212@mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
In his op-ed on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience", Masha Gessen presents ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Trump? as a looming threat. Some may see this article as timely and relevant but I see it as part of Western media?s continuing effort to keep Americans in their bubble. >From my possibly recalcitrant point of view from the other side of the world, the Americans are no strangers to anticipatory obedience. Most of them have confronted ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Biden? without a cringe. After electing a warmonger as President who conspired with Netanyahu to make the US a partner in genocide, how much more trying would MAGA be? As long as Americans wail about Trump leading them without acknowledging what has been done in their name over the last four years, they will remain in their bubble while the world looks on with horror.?
On Sunday, 9 February 2025 at 07:31:33 am MYT, Ellie Stock via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Hi Folks,Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience". . .Ellie?elliestock@aol.com?
This op-ed in The NY Times calls on us not to obey in advance:?https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/08/opinion/trump-power-surrender.html?unlocked_article_code=1.vU4.GN6W.UhwJBG0c4Bv_&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
_______________________________________________
Dialogue mailing list
Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net
http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
Great song, Paula. On Fri, Feb 21, 2025, 4:20 PM Sunny Walker via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Oh, Paula, that warmed me up on a VERY cold Colorado February day. Thank you!
*Sunny Walker * *She/her/hers* *On **Arapaho, Cheyenne, Núu-agha-tʉvʉ-pʉ̱ (Ute), and Očeti Šakówiŋ (Sioux) tribal land*
Certified Facilitator (Also Certified ToP Facilitator) ToP Methods Mentor Trainer - Upcoming Courses <https://www.top-training.net/w/> Virtual Facilitation Collaborative Senior Facilitator sunny.sunwalker@gmail.com 303-587-3017
For diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging inquiries: sunny@diversityinnovators.com www.diversityinnovators.com
For virtual facilitation inquiries: sunny@virtualfacilitationcollaborative.com www.virtualfacilitationcollaborative.com
On Mon, Feb 17, 2025 at 11:32 AM Paula Philbrook via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Kevin, Thank you for sharing Parker’s work. His book, Healing the Heart of Democracy was helpful to me as I canvassed & phone banked in Sept & Oct.
Parker’s Center has several remote & in person courses centered around the “Courage to Lead”. https://couragerenewal.org/?s=Courage+to+lead
He collaborates with a singer/songwriter, Carrie Newcomer. I have adopted her song, “Room at the Table”. As my anthem. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92OM5bdQ4N4
With Rebellious Hope,
Paula
Personal Mission Statement: *I nurture love, peace & harmony in every situation for my caring family, disempowered communities, and our precious planet.*
On Mon, Feb 17, 2025 at 12:16 PM jstanfieldica via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Dear Kevin, Thank you for sharing this video of Palmer's with us. This is indeed talking about the social pioneer and the transestablishment style. I will share it with some of the Courage to Lead guides.
Jeanette Stanfield
Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network.
-------- Original message -------- From: Kevin Balm via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Date: 2025-02-17 1:58 a.m. (GMT-05:00) To: 'Order Ecumenical Community' <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: balmkevin@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Parker J Palmer's Standing in the Tragic Gap
Dear Colleagues,
This past week I facilitated the annual Senior Leadership Team retreat (a planning session in reality) for the UN Economic Commission for Africa. I have been facilitating and training various teams in this institution for 7-8 years now and finally got the opportunity to facilitate the senior most team. Unlike with the counterpart commission for Asia Pacific where I started with the senior team, I had to build up to this opportunity. My equivalent of the Ronin story from the old LENS programs is Parker J Palmer’s writings (and short videos), particularly his piece (attached) on “Finding your Soul” from his book “ Let Your Life Speak: Listening for the Voice of Vocation”. I especially like his Quaker metaphor for a Power Point – the Mobius Strip. I pause reading and demonstrate at this point. As with previous groups, individuals in this senior leadership group wanted to have copies of the reading.
His “Courage to Teach” curriculum reminds me of our “Courage to Lead”. In fact much of Parker J Palmer’s work resonates strongly for me with OE/ICA teachings. The link below is his take on the Trans-establishment Stance.
https://couragerenewal.org/library/hhd-standing-and-acting-in-the-tragic-gap...
Kevin Balm
*From:* OE <oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> *On Behalf Of *Bill Parker via OE *Sent:* Monday, 10 February 2025 2:44 PM *To:* Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> *Cc:* Bill Parker <bparker1251963@gmail.com>; Richard and Maria Maguire <richardandmaria@unfoldingfutures.net> *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] 1. Re: [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience"
We need a session on “a path forward”. Our specific experience, context, and process understanding is exactly what is needed now.
Bill Parker
On Feb 9, 2025, at 6:59 PM, Richard and Maria Maguire via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Hi
I agree with what Randy, Ken and Dharmalingam say to a great extent, and would like to add something. I believe that most if not all of the people on this list are in great pain about what is going on now and what has been going on for past many decades and even centuries that have led up to the current situation. I know for sure that we have been working for decades to support and entirely new approach to society, but in spite of our efforts and those of millions of others, the powerful close ranks and push forward. We are not alone in having done a lot and also not alone in feeling the pain.
To my mind the Trump clique, both the American and international one, would like to distract their citizens from the attacks on democracy that they and others have been carrying out for a long time. At the same time it seems to me that they would like to push the colonial project on further against the will and wishes of most people. They have grabbed the positions of power in the media, education, productive industry, government and so much more, and would love to go further.
That so many American citizens remain so ignorant of the rest of the world and even most of the rest of their own nation is another great pain, and this continues despite our and many others' significant efforts for many decades. It's so hard to know what do to that will really change the direction.
Yes it is so painful that even though the consequences of "anticipatory obedience" are well known, not least though the events around the Nazi government, that many tend to still do the same probably out of fear of consequences for themselves as well as the pain of having to face up to what's going on and all this again in spite of the dedicated efforts of our selves and so many.
Maria and I have been quite grateful to have discovered and using the insights and meditations of Self-Compassion as developed by Kristin Neff and many others. As I listen to what she says, it is really a practical application of what we have said about the Christ Word, especially, You are accepted, the past is approved, the future is open. This is not about retreat into yourself, but empowering and supporting yourself and others. If this approach is new to you as it was to us, you can learn more at www.self-compassion.org.
To get a view into the long term international anti-democratic strategies of the international political and economic elites, I highly recommend The Crisis of Democracy a research project of the TriLateral commission in the late 60's. The "crisis" for them was the rising expectation of people for a more democratic society and they outlined a strategy that you will easily recognize has been going on since the early 70's to shut it down. Reading it is like reading the battle plan of the powerful and privileged to keep the world safe for themselves. It is even available for free online on the Internet Archive
https://ia801308.us.archive.org/23/items/TheCrisisOfDemocracy-TrilateralComm...
On a contemporary note, we have become aware of the Atlas Network, a collaboration of anti-democratic organisations funded largely by fossil fuel billionaires, is also useful. Their strategy is to fund think-tanks around the world, such as the Cato Institute, Heartland Institute in the US and the Institute of Public Affairs in Australia. Their website claims to now have 500 affiliates in over 100 countries.
Adam Smith described these efforts over 200 years ago with a concise phrase in "The Wealth of Nations" , *"Whenever these people get together, even for sport or amusement, the public is worse off. * The talk is about how to reduce wages and raise prices."
Finally Maria I would like to thank everyone on this list for what you have done for peace and justice in the world, and catalysing awareness and action for so many, in our world, and we have all made a great difference against great odds.
Grace and Peace
Richard
On 10/02/2025 8:01 am, oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net wrote:
Send OE mailing list submissions to
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You can reach the person managing the list at
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of
"anticipatory obedience" (Dharmalingam Vinasithamby)
2. West condones genocide (Ken Fisher)
3. Re: Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory
obedience" (RICHARD HOWIE)
4. Re: West condones genocide (Randy Williams)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 01:46:26 +0000 (UTC)
From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com>
To: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>, Order
Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the
dangers of "anticipatory obedience"
Message-ID: <2068938938.10282361.1739065586212@mail.yahoo.com> <2068938938.10282361.1739065586212@mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
In his op-ed on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience", Masha Gessen presents ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Trump? as a looming threat. Some may see this article as timely and relevant but I see it as part of Western media?s continuing effort to keep Americans in their bubble. From my possibly recalcitrant point of view from the other side of the world, the Americans are no strangers to anticipatory obedience. Most of them have confronted ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Biden? without a cringe. After electing a warmonger as President who conspired with Netanyahu to make the US a partner in genocide, how much more trying would MAGA be? As long as Americans wail about Trump leading them without acknowledging what has been done in their name over the last four years, they will remain in their bubble while the world looks on with horror.?
On Sunday, 9 February 2025 at 07:31:33 am MYT, Ellie Stock via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Hi Folks,Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience". . .Ellie?elliestock@aol.com?
This op-ed in The NY Times calls on us not to obey in advance:?https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/08/opinion/trump-power-surrender.html?unlocked_article_code=1.vU4.GN6W.UhwJBG0c4Bv_&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
_______________________________________________
Dialogue mailing list
Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net
http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
Colleagues, From time to time we acknowledge our techno-polity guru, the person managing the list, Tim Wegner. This is one of those times. Please note that his care-filled notation of “Today’s Topics” enables the possibility of profundity. Ever grateful, Ken
On 10/02/2025 8:01 am, oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience" (Dharmalingam Vinasithamby) 2. West condones genocide (Ken Fisher) 3. Re: Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience" (RICHARD HOWIE) 4. Re: West condones genocide (Randy Williams)
participants (17)
-
balmkevin＠gmail.com -
Bill Parker -
carletonstock＠aol.com -
Isobel and Jim -
James Wiegel -
Jonathan Barker -
jstanfieldica -
Ken Fisher -
Nancy Trask -
Paula Philbrook -
Randy Williams -
Richard and Maria Maguire -
Ronnie Seagren -
Ruth Gilbert -
Seth Longacre -
Sharon Fisher -
Sunny Walker