Forgiveness is having a Sunday School that dissects the reality after the fact!

Seriously, there is a sense in which 'forgiveness' is objectively a recognition of what is, irrespective of what the victim or perpetuator/perpetrator feels, thinks or do.  Forgiveness is recognition that what has transpired is done, finis, kaput - and no amount of wishful thinking can bring it back again.  That is probably why forgiveness is a radical stance. The reality out there is water under the bridge.

Now, the reality "in here" has been shown to take a roller-coaster ride.  But that is a choice one makes.

That the SC Gov finally decided to haul down the Confederacy flag is admirable but that is to deal with the "in here" reality.  As to Roof and his 9 victims, the deed is done.  IMHO.

Thank Rod for bringing this up.



j'aime la vie
yesterday, appreciate; tomorrow, anticipate; today, participate! in all, celebrate!




-----Original Message-----
From: via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>
To: oe <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>
Sent: Tue, Jun 23, 2015 3:39 am
Subject: OE Digest, Vol 39, Issue 17

Send OE mailing list submissions to
	oe@lists.wedgeblade.net

To subscribe or
unsubscribe via the World Wide Web,
visit
	http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
or, via
email, send a message with subject or body 'help'
to
	oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net

You can reach the person managing the
list at
	oe-owner@lists.wedgeblade.net

When replying, please edit your
Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of OE
digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. VP #73 The Question of Forgiveness (Rod
Rippel via
OE)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message:
1
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2015 08:06:15 -0700
From: Rod Rippel via OE
<oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>
To: "Betty Skinner"
<bettyskinner34@gmail.com>,	"Betty Turner"
	<btturner4@aol.com>,	"Bill
Schaffer" <bcschaffer@sbcglobal.net>,	"Bob
	Lang" <bob34lang@verizon.net>,
<Cmae36@aol.com>,	"Connie Canter"
	<washoe@allglobal.net>,	"Dick Wilt"
<dwilted@sbcglobal.net>, "Dolores
	Lowry" <D107c@aol.com>,	"Don Schaffer"
<dondonna@sbcglobal.net>,	"Gene
	Dennis" <geno65270@yahoo.com>,	"Herb
Lawrence"
	<herb.lawrence@att.net>,	"Jack Stewart" <stewart538@gmail.com>,
"Jeff
	Rippel" <jarip45@verizon.net>,	"Martha Burton
Hall"
	<mobmom@sbcglobal.net>,	"Maurice Frazier"
<doefrazier@sbcglobal.net>,
	<ZOURAH4@aol.com>
Cc: Marion Muma
<marionmuma@gmail.com>, Linda Orr
	<lorr56@comcast.net>,	Jeff Rippel
<jarip45@verizon.net>,	Sarah Beth
	Rippel <fitprosarah@gmail.com>,	John Fistere
<johnfistere@gmail.com>,
	Curtiss Rippel <ripson2@prodigy.net>,	Linda
Armacost
	<larmacost@cox.net>, Clifford Rippel
<crippel@mac.com>,	Victoria
	Freiheit <qvfreiheit@sbcglobal.net>,	Dolores Lowry
<D107c@aol.com>,
	Andrew Rippel <rippeldrew@yahoo.com>,	Pauline
Rippel
	<peacepwr@cox.net>, MW Sattva
<morgsat@gmail.com>,	Cmae36@aol.com,
	staley pitts
<staley.pitts@gmail.com>,	Michael Dorfi <mdorfi@cox.net>,
	Steve Rippel
<rippone@q.com>,	Dorcas and Bob Holtsmith
	<holtsmith@sbcglobal.net>
Subject:
[Oe List ...] VP #73 The Question of Forgiveness
Message-ID:
<1B140105C15E4FBCA39FFA69619B9BF0@RodHP>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"





The question of forgiveness is raised by the
events of the shooting of 9 people in a Bible class at Emmanuel AME Church in
Charleston, SC.



Is forgiveness contingent or unconditional?  Are we to
forgive seven times over (or 70X7) and then what?  Is forgiveness contingent on
repentance? or on Metanoia?  Is it contingent on the perpetrator asking for
forgiveness, giving an explanation, reasons, justifications, circumstances,
rationalizations, mitigating considerations...Or?.  Or does he have to say, 
"Metanoo,"  "I have had a change of heart."  "My heart has been made over."  No
mention of the deed itself?  No act of repenting?  No apology even?  No defense?
Only say Metanoo, I have been transformed?  Or is even that needed to wipe out
the deed?  To make it 'As if,  as if, it never happened at all?  Is the event of
the deed wiped out by the event a change of heart?  And if there is no change of
heart?  Are we still to forgive? To forget as if...



Recently, for my
wife's birthday I gave my her a small package wrapped in plain paper.  On the
wrapping I had written:  "Forgiveness Implementer - with Practical Applicator
with instructions on the label."  Of course it was a 'gag gift,' a sock-filler
among other such gifts for her to open.  The item in question was a small bottle
of  White Out, an item well used in the days of typewriters to blot out errors. 
The instructions on the bottle were:  COVER IT.  Blot it out as if you never
made the typo.  Forget about it and make the correction as if it never happened.
Can the past transgression of so heinous 

a deed be forgotten?  Is the
forgiveness enhanced by the memory and depth of the injury?  If so who is the
benefactor of forgiveness, the perpetrator or the victim?



What happens
when a perpetrator doesn't repent and shows no sign of a 'change of heart?'




I wonder if the case can be made that forgiveness, that forgiving, is
unconditional.  Maybe that's what Jesus of Nazareth was really all
about.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was
scrubbed...
URL:
<http://lists.wedgeblade.net/pipermail/oe-wedgeblade.net/attachments/20150622/4c4befd4/attachment.html>

------------------------------

Subject:
Digest Footer

_______________________________________________
OE mailing
list
OE@lists.wedgeblade.net
http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net


------------------------------

End
of OE Digest, Vol 39, Issue 17
**********************************