Re: [Dialogue] the President
I agree. I'm profoundly disappointed in Mr. Obama and his administration. First, for leaving the hawks to guard the economic henhouse (Geitner, for example), secondly, for taking on more unchecked, unbalanced executive power than even George Bush dared. (drone strikes and immigrant deportations increased) and this adds a third arena. I pray for orderly evolution to more equity and civility. Thanks for sharing, Sunny, Jann In a message dated 6/4/2012 10:08:50 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, sunwalker@comcast.net writes: Well, my FBI file grows. I’ve written another president – not one I ever expected to. I followed Steve Harrington’s link to the cartoon discussion and randomly (you’ve noticed, it’s how my brain works, sighhhh…) a nearby link. There I found this comment. So I simply asked the President to heed the words as they will make a difference in the election: We hear much about civility in public life, and many colleges now insert civility discussions into the curriculum. More and more, President Obama’s speeches are worth studying as examples of incivility, of precisely what a president should not do this far out from the election. Cheap and puerile, they offer the guilty pleasures of raillery, a moment’s chuckle and a lengthening contempt for people of different views. Such rhetoric coming out of the president’s mouth poisons civic life, for every time he throws a cynical and insulting characterization to the audience, he licenses the blowhard talking head, the obnoxious columnist, and hordes of lesser incumbent politicians in their own campaigns to do the same. Your thoughts? Sunny Sunny Walker SunWalker Enterprises 303-587-3017 (cell) 303-671-0704 (home/office) _sunwalker@comcast.net_ (mailto:sunwalker@comcast.net) Aurora, CO No mattter how far you've gone down the wrong road, turn back. ~ Turkish Proverb _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
We hear much about civility in public life, and many colleges now insert civility discussions into the curriculum. More and more, President Obama’s speeches are worth studying as examples of incivility, of precisely what a president should not do this far out from the election. Cheap and puerile, they offer the guilty pleasures of raillery, a moment’s chuckle and a lengthening contempt for people of different views. Such rhetoric coming out of the president’s mouth poisons civic life, for every time he throws a cynical and insulting characterization to the audience, he licenses the blowhard talking head, the obnoxious columnist, and hordes of lesser incumbent politicians in their own campaigns to do the same. Your thoughts? Sunny Sunny Walker SunWalker Enterprises 303-587-3017 (cell) 303-671-0704 (home/office) sunwalker@comcast.net Aurora, CO No mattter how far you've gone down the wrong road, turn back. ~ Turkish Proverb
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Jann and Sunny, I too have struggled with some of the decisions the President and his administration have made, like for example, the decision to allow super pacs to raise money for his campaign. Since I can't be happy with all his particular actions, I've had to fall back on his values, and there I believe his are as close to my own as any national candidate for office in my lifetime. So for now I will continue to trust his foundational values and I will stick with him as my candidate until I feel his values have shifted to the point that I no longer can if I am to maintain my own integrity. Our father in freedom Dietrich Bonhoeffer told us that often the choices are between wrong and wrong, and right and right. My experience in choosing candidates is that it is always between individuals who are both right and wrong at the same time, that is, there's good and bad in all of them (and, by the way, all of us.) This is one reason why it is a distortion to demonize those with whom we disagree. The 2008 presidential election was the first for me in which I felt I was voting "for" the candidate I supported rather than "against" the one I did not support . I confess I'm not as enthusiastic about Obama now as I was last time around, but it is so clear to me that the values of Mitt Romney are so contrary to my own that there is no dilemma whatsoever for me as to who I will vote for. Randy PS I believe any elected official, who serves a term with an eye toward getting elected for another term, is compromised to one degree or another. That is why I would support the presidency being limited to one 6-year term. If Obama is re-elected I believe his lame duck status will allow him to do things he never did in his first term. I feel this is indicative more of a flaw in the system than a flaw in the man. "Listen to what is emerging from yourself to the course of being in the world; not to be supported by it, but to bring it to reality as it desires." -Martin Buber (adapted) ________________________________ From: "LAURELCG@aol.com" <LAURELCG@aol.com> To: dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net Sent: Monday, June 4, 2012 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [Dialogue] the President I agree. I'm profoundly disappointed in Mr. Obama and his administration. First, for leaving the hawks to guard the economic henhouse (Geitner, for example), secondly, for taking on more unchecked, unbalanced executive power than even George Bush dared. (drone strikes and immigrant deportations increased) and this adds a third arena. I pray for orderly evolution to more equity and civility. Thanks for sharing, Sunny, Jann In a message dated 6/4/2012 10:08:50 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, sunwalker@comcast.net writes: Well, my FBI file grows. I’ve written another president – not one I ever expected to. I followed Steve Harrington’s link to the cartoon discussion and randomly (you’ve noticed, it’s how my brain works, sighhhh…) a nearby link. There I found this comment. So I simply asked the President to heed the words as they will make a difference in the election: list
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I agree with Randy. I think Obama has done the best he can in a very hostile situation. Marianna On Jun 4, 2012, at 4:09 PM, R Williams wrote:
Jann and Sunny,
I too have struggled with some of the decisions the President and his administration have made, like for example, the decision to allow super pacs to raise money for his campaign. Since I can't be happy with all his particular actions, I've had to fall back on his values, and there I believe his are as close to my own as any national candidate for office in my lifetime. So for now I will continue to trust his foundational values and I will stick with him as my candidate until I feel his values have shifted to the point that I no longer can if I am to maintain my own integrity.
Our father in freedom Dietrich Bonhoeffer told us that often the choices are between wrong and wrong, and right and right. My experience in choosing candidates is that it is always between individuals who are both right and wrong at the same time, that is, there's good and bad in all of them (and, by the way, all of us.) This is one reason why it is a distortion to demonize those with whom we disagree.
The 2008 presidential election was the first for me in which I felt I was voting "for" the candidate I supported rather than "against" the one I did not support . I confess I'm not as enthusiastic about Obama now as I was last time around, but it is so clear to me that the values of Mitt Romney are so contrary to my own that there is no dilemma whatsoever for me as to who I will vote for.
Randy
PS I believe any elected official, who serves a term with an eye toward getting elected for another term, is compromised to one degree or another. That is why I would support the presidency being limited to one 6-year term. If Obama is re-elected I believe his lame duck status will allow him to do things he never did in his first term. I feel this is indicative more of a flaw in the system than a flaw in the man.
"Listen to what is emerging from yourself to the course of being in the world; not to be supported by it, but to bring it to reality as it desires." -Martin Buber (adapted) From: "LAURELCG@aol.com" <LAURELCG@aol.com> To: dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net Sent: Monday, June 4, 2012 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [Dialogue] the President
I agree. I'm profoundly disappointed in Mr. Obama and his administration. First, for leaving the hawks to guard the economic henhouse (Geitner, for example), secondly, for taking on more unchecked, unbalanced executive power than even George Bush dared. (drone strikes and immigrant deportations increased) and this adds a third arena. I pray for orderly evolution to more equity and civility.
Thanks for sharing, Sunny, Jann
In a message dated 6/4/2012 10:08:50 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, sunwalker@comcast.net writes: Well, my FBI file grows. I’ve written another president – not one I ever expected to. I followed Steve Harrington’s link to the cartoon discussion and randomly (you’ve noticed, it’s how my brain works, sighhhh…) a nearby link. There I found this comment. So I simply asked the President to heed the words as they will make a difference in the election:
We hear much about civility in public life, and many colleges now insert civility discussions into the curriculum. More and more, President Obama’s speeches are worth studying as examples of incivility, of precisely what a president should not do this far out from the election. Cheap and puerile, they offer the guilty pleasures of raillery, a moment’s chuckle and a lengthening contempt for people of different views. Such rhetoric coming out of the president’s mouth poisons civic life, for every time he throws a cynical and insulting characterization to the audience, he licenses the blowhard talking head, the obnoxious columnist, and hordes of lesser incumbent politicians in their own campaigns to do the same.
Your thoughts?
Sunny
Sunny Walker SunWalker Enterprises 303-587-3017 (cell) 303-671-0704 (home/office) sunwalker@comcast.net Aurora, CO
No mattter how far you've gone down the wrong road, turn back. ~ Turkish Proverb
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I agree with the Bonhoeffer analogy. And am also pretty sure that "joining them" in slinging a few rants is neither Presidential nor effective. Doesn't at all mean I would vote for someone else. Sunny Walker ~ sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Marianna Bailey <wmbailey@charter.net> Sender: dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.netDate: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 16:27:56 To: Colleague Dialogue<dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Reply-To: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Dialogue] the President _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
Anybody have any really good reasons for USA to vote for Romney? I don't have one. I could give you several for Obama. -----Original Message----- From: dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net [mailto:dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of sunwalker@comcast.net Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 4:42 PM To: Colleague Dialogue Subject: Re: [Dialogue] the President I agree with the Bonhoeffer analogy. And am also pretty sure that "joining them" in slinging a few rants is neither Presidential nor effective. Doesn't at all mean I would vote for someone else. Sunny Walker ~ sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Marianna Bailey <wmbailey@charter.net> Sender: dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.netDate: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 16:27:56 To: Colleague Dialogue<dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Reply-To: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Dialogue] the President _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
Here is a reason I think?????? Romney could make a decision and change his mind?????? A.M. Noel 206-321-6274 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Cock" <jpc2025@triad.rr.com> To: "Colleague Dialogue" <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Monday, June 4, 2012 5:13:04 PM Subject: Re: [Dialogue] the President Anybody have any really good reasons for USA to vote for Romney? I don't have one. I could give you several for Obama. -----Original Message----- From: dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net [mailto:dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of sunwalker@comcast.net Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 4:42 PM To: Colleague Dialogue Subject: Re: [Dialogue] the President I agree with the Bonhoeffer analogy. And am also pretty sure that "joining them" in slinging a few rants is neither Presidential nor effective. Doesn't at all mean I would vote for someone else. Sunny Walker ~ sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Marianna Bailey <wmbailey@charter.net> Sender: dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.netDate: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 16:27:56 To: Colleague Dialogue<dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Reply-To: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Dialogue] the President _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
So you are voting for Romney? Or was that just an astute observation? just asking, dont think this is a reason to go back to Malaysia. ----- Original Message ----- From: A.M. Noel To: Colleague Dialogue Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 9:08 PM Subject: Re: [Dialogue] the President Here is a reason I think?????? Romney could make a decision and change his mind?????? A.M. Noel 206-321-6274 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: "John Cock" <jpc2025@triad.rr.com> To: "Colleague Dialogue" <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Monday, June 4, 2012 5:13:04 PM Subject: Re: [Dialogue] the President Anybody have any really good reasons for USA to vote for Romney? I don't have one. I could give you several for Obama. -----Original Message----- From: dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net [mailto:dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of sunwalker@comcast.net Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 4:42 PM To: Colleague Dialogue Subject: Re: [Dialogue] the President I agree with the Bonhoeffer analogy. And am also pretty sure that "joining them" in slinging a few rants is neither Presidential nor effective. Doesn't at all mean I would vote for someone else. Sunny Walker ~ sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Marianna Bailey <wmbailey@charter.net> Sender: dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.netDate: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 16:27:56 To: Colleague Dialogue<dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Reply-To: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Dialogue] the President _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
Dear AM and community, That last comment was sent by Richard. He thought he was replying directly to AM Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: Janet Sanders To: Colleague Dialogue Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 11:38 AM Subject: Re: [Dialogue] the President So you are voting for Romney? Or was that just an astute observation? just asking, dont think this is a reason to go back to Malaysia. ----- Original Message ----- From: A.M. Noel To: Colleague Dialogue Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 9:08 PM Subject: Re: [Dialogue] the President Here is a reason I think?????? Romney could make a decision and change his mind?????? A.M. Noel 206-321-6274 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Cock" <jpc2025@triad.rr.com> To: "Colleague Dialogue" <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Monday, June 4, 2012 5:13:04 PM Subject: Re: [Dialogue] the President Anybody have any really good reasons for USA to vote for Romney? I don't have one. I could give you several for Obama. -----Original Message----- From: dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net [mailto:dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of sunwalker@comcast.net Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 4:42 PM To: Colleague Dialogue Subject: Re: [Dialogue] the President I agree with the Bonhoeffer analogy. And am also pretty sure that "joining them" in slinging a few rants is neither Presidential nor effective. Doesn't at all mean I would vote for someone else. Sunny Walker ~ sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Marianna Bailey <wmbailey@charter.net> Sender: dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.netDate: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 16:27:56 To: Colleague Dialogue<dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Reply-To: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Dialogue] the President _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
Try to be direct, Richard. Poor Jan. _____ From: dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net [mailto:dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Janet Sanders Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 3:00 PM To: Colleague Dialogue Subject: Re: [Dialogue] the President Dear AM and community, That last comment was sent by Richard. He thought he was replying directly to AM Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: Janet <mailto:jsanders@bconnex.net> Sanders To: Colleague Dialogue <mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 11:38 AM Subject: Re: [Dialogue] the President So you are voting for Romney? Or was that just an astute observation? just asking, dont think this is a reason to go back to Malaysia. ----- Original Message ----- From: A.M. Noel <mailto:amnoel@comcast.net> To: Colleague Dialogue <mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 9:08 PM Subject: Re: [Dialogue] the President Here is a reason I think?????? Romney could make a decision and change his mind?????? A.M. Noel 206-321-6274 _____ From: "John Cock" <jpc2025@triad.rr.com> To: "Colleague Dialogue" <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Monday, June 4, 2012 5:13:04 PM Subject: Re: [Dialogue] the President Anybody have any really good reasons for USA to vote for Romney? I don't have one. I could give you several for Obama. -----Original Message----- From: dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net [mailto:dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of sunwalker@comcast.net Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 4:42 PM To: Colleague Dialogue Subject: Re: [Dialogue] the President I agree with the Bonhoeffer analogy. And am also pretty sure that "joining them" in slinging a few rants is neither Presidential nor effective. Doesn't at all mean I would vote for someone else. Sunny Walker ~ sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Marianna Bailey <wmbailey@charter.net> Sender: dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.netDate: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 16:27:56 To: Colleague Dialogue<dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Reply-To: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Dialogue] the President _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _____ _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _____ _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
We are very much on the same page. Obama has dealt with an extremely difficult congress, and has done well given the circumstances. Charles On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Marianna Bailey <wmbailey@charter.net>wrote:
I agree with Randy. I think Obama has done the best he can in a very hostile situation.
Marianna
On Jun 4, 2012, at 4:09 PM, R Williams wrote:
Jann and Sunny,
I too have struggled with some of the decisions the President and his administration have made, like for example, the decision to allow super pacs to raise money for his campaign. Since I can't be happy with all his particular actions, I've had to fall back on his values, and there I believe his are as close to my own as any national candidate for office in my lifetime. So for now I will continue to trust his foundational values and I will stick with him as my candidate until I feel his values have shifted to the point that I no longer can if I am to maintain my own integrity.
Our father in freedom Dietrich Bonhoeffer told us that often the choices are between wrong and wrong, and right and right. My experience in choosing candidates is that it is always between individuals who are both right and wrong at the same time, that is, there's good and bad in all of them (and, by the way, all of us.) This is one reason why it is a distortion to demonize those with whom we disagree.
The 2008 presidential election was the first for me in which I felt I was voting "for" the candidate I supported rather than "against" the one I did not support . I confess I'm not as enthusiastic about Obama now as I was last time around, but it is so clear to me that the values of Mitt Romney are so contrary to my own that there is no dilemma whatsoever for me as to who I will vote for.
Randy
PS I believe any elected official, who serves a term with an eye toward getting elected for another term, is compromised to one degree or another. That is why I would support the presidency being limited to one 6-year term. If Obama is re-elected I believe his lame duck status will allow him to do things he never did in his first term. I feel this is indicative more of a flaw in the system than a flaw in the man.
"Listen to what is emerging from yourself to the course of being in the world; not to be supported by it, but to bring it to reality as it desires." -Martin Buber (adapted) *From:* "LAURELCG@aol.com" <LAURELCG@aol.com> *To:* dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net *Sent:* Monday, June 4, 2012 12:41 PM *Subject:* Re: [Dialogue] the President
I agree. I'm profoundly disappointed in Mr. Obama and his administration. First, for leaving the hawks to guard the economic henhouse (Geitner, for example), secondly, for taking on more unchecked, unbalanced executive power than even George Bush dared. (drone strikes and immigrant deportations increased) and this adds a third arena. I pray for orderly evolution to more equity and civility.
Thanks for sharing, Sunny, Jann
In a message dated 6/4/2012 10:08:50 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, sunwalker@comcast.net writes:
Well, my FBI file grows. I’ve written another president – not one I ever expected to. I followed Steve Harrington’s link to the cartoon discussion and randomly (you’ve noticed, it’s how my brain works, sighhhh…) a nearby link. There I found this comment. So I simply asked the President to heed the words as they will make a difference in the election:
We hear much about civility in public life, and many colleges now insert civility discussions into the curriculum. More and more, President Obama’s speeches are worth studying as examples of incivility, of precisely what a president should not do this far out from the election. Cheap and puerile, they offer the guilty pleasures of raillery, a moment’s chuckle and a lengthening contempt for people of different views. Such rhetoric coming out of the president’s mouth poisons civic life, for every time he throws a cynical and insulting characterization to the audience, he licenses the blowhard talking head, the obnoxious columnist, and hordes of lesser incumbent politicians in their own campaigns to do the same.
Your thoughts?
*Sunny*
Sunny Walker SunWalker Enterprises 303-587-3017 (cell) 303-671-0704 (home/office) sunwalker@comcast.net Aurora, CO
No mattter how far you've gone down the wrong road, turn back. ~ Turkish Proverb
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participants (8)
-
A.M. Noel -
Charles Hahn -
Janet Sanders -
John Cock -
LAURELCG＠aol.com -
Marianna Bailey -
R Williams -
sunwalker＠comcast.net