Re: [Dialogue] [Oe List ...] Breakfast News Conversations...
Fascists and dictators (and now just about everyone) have long understood that deviant behavior is encouraged by the fact that the media give it coverage. For example it used to be, "Don't write about suicide" because the mere mention of suicide might inspire someone to commit suicide in the next few days. Now we are flooded with all kinds of deviant inspiration. We live in a time of internet, Facebook, Twitter and adultery matchup-services. Like the phrase sometimes used in the RS-1 'Freedom Lecture,' "All Is Known," literally! The inundation of 'information' has either swamped us with stress and physical reaction or prompted a new level of defensive withdrawal from engaging. Scriptural wisdom and "Deciding" goes by the board! -----Original Message----- From: steve har via OE Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 6:06 AM To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net ; Order Ecumenical ICA-USA Subject: [Oe List ...] Breakfast News Conversations... Also called scripture/news conversations You remember them right? random bits of recalled news and then a piece of scriptural wisdom what to do about it? These days news like trying to "drink from a fire hose" My experience now living in the USfA now rather than Costa Rica and listening to USA media is curious. Feels to me like a case of news culture ADHD where nothing is connected to anything except by more and more crisis news events, more passionate & positional thinking more economic political and cultural and more and more "news journalists" driving to their bank on the stream of news. My friend Jack Gilles, if I quote him right, says ORID conversations no longer have a "D" now because it it is all interpretation, everyone has an opinion, everyone is a spectator stuck in the stands watching an unplayable game. Now in conversations is no "D" in ORID, no one knows how to Decide or what Do. "D" stands for Dumpster or "Don't decide" or "Despair" or just "Done". Joe Mathews had a paper, I believe, which he called the liberal heresy - aybe it was the conservative heresy or the reactionary heresy. He used some fancy theological terminology like "the immediacy of the eschaton" which I never did understand,exactly. Anyone remember this paper? Wondering where IS the scripture part, the wisdom part of the breakfast news conversation? The Christian Science Monitor says THEY are doing two things...As days and weeks pass, the media move on to new stories, often neglecting to tell the “what’s possible?” stories about how the people and communities affected by these tragedies are coping and what they’re learning. We hear these types of stories on one-year anniversaries, but they’re not an ongoing part of the media’s coverage the way that the “what happened?” stories are. A growing body of research is confirming what many have long suspected — that a steady diet of trauma and disaster triggers stress, fear and trauma in those consuming the stories. What if the news media covered stories of recovery and resilience as much as they cover stories about devastation and despair? http://ivoh.org/restorativenarrative/ Steve -- Steve _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Enclosed: THE LIBERAL HERESY \ I think it was given by John Epps or maybe Gene Marshall???? "What appears to be a breaking down of civilization may well be simply the breaking up of old forms by life itself." ~ Joyce Carol Oates ❤ Frank
On Aug 25, 2015, at 8:39 AM, Rod Rippel via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Fascists and dictators (and now just about everyone) have long understood that deviant behavior is encouraged by the fact that the media give it coverage. For example it used to be, "Don't write about suicide" because the mere mention of suicide might inspire someone to commit suicide in the next few days. Now we are flooded with all kinds of deviant inspiration. We live in a time of internet, Facebook, Twitter and adultery matchup-services. Like the phrase sometimes used in the RS-1 'Freedom Lecture,' "All Is Known," literally! The inundation of 'information' has either swamped us with stress and physical reaction or prompted a new level of defensive withdrawal from engaging. Scriptural wisdom and "Deciding" goes by the board! -----Original Message----- From: steve har via OE Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 6:06 AM To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net ; Order Ecumenical ICA-USA Subject: [Oe List ...] Breakfast News Conversations...
Also called scripture/news conversations
You remember them right? random bits of recalled news and then a piece of scriptural wisdom what to do about it?
These days news like trying to "drink from a fire hose" My experience now living in the USfA now rather than Costa Rica and listening to USA media is curious.
Feels to me like a case of news culture ADHD where nothing is connected to anything except by more and more crisis news events, more passionate & positional thinking more economic political and cultural and more and more "news journalists" driving to their bank on the stream of news.
My friend Jack Gilles, if I quote him right, says ORID conversations no longer have a "D" now because it it is all interpretation, everyone has an opinion, everyone is a spectator stuck in the stands watching an unplayable game.
Now in conversations is no "D" in ORID, no one knows how to Decide or what Do. "D" stands for Dumpster or "Don't decide" or "Despair" or just "Done".
Joe Mathews had a paper, I believe, which he called the liberal heresy - aybe it was the conservative heresy or the reactionary heresy. He used some fancy theological terminology like "the immediacy of the eschaton" which I never did understand,exactly. Anyone remember this paper?
Wondering where IS the scripture part, the wisdom part of the breakfast news conversation?
The Christian Science Monitor says THEY are doing two things...As days and weeks pass, the media move on to new stories, often neglecting to tell the “what’s possible?” stories about how the people and communities affected by these tragedies are coping and what they’re learning. We hear these types of stories on one-year anniversaries, but they’re not an ongoing part of the media’s coverage the way that the “what happened?” stories are. A growing body of research is confirming what many have long suspected — that a steady diet of trauma and disaster triggers stress, fear and trauma in those consuming the stories.
What if the news media covered stories of recovery and resilience as much as they cover stories about devastation and despair? http://ivoh.org/restorativenarrative/
Steve
-- Steve _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
This paper is an interesting read and gives an insight to what our thinking was way back in 1976! This talk was not given by JWM. My guess would be Gene Marshall, it has his style to it. It made me think that if I was giving such a talk today those would not be my points. It is not that they don’t, or didn’t, have a validity, but it is not how I experience the heresy today, if you want to call it that. My four columns would be: 1. Righteous Demonization. My Facebook gets a lot of these. “If there weren’t all these selfish and stupid people causing all these problems we’d get the job done!” 2. Focus on Issues, not Contradictions This shows up with a disregard for the systemic nature of life. 3. Winning the argument is more important than solving the problem. Highly located in academia, but a disease possessed by many. 4. Wisdom does lie in the people who live the situations that need to change. Call it “Expertise-ism”. These are just four quick ones off the top of my head. But they seem to be more in line with what I encounter than the old ones. There are also points in the ignorance of the role of spirit, symbol, etc. in the change process. Peace, Jack
On Aug 25, 2015, at 12:59 PM, Frank Knutson via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Enclosed: THE LIBERAL HERESY \ I think it was given by John Epps or maybe Gene Marshall???? <THE LIBERAL HERESY.docx>
"What appears to be a breaking down of civilization may well be simply the breaking up of old forms by life itself." ~ Joyce Carol Oates <VIKING copy.jpeg> ❤ Frank
On Aug 25, 2015, at 8:39 AM, Rod Rippel via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
Fascists and dictators (and now just about everyone) have long understood that deviant behavior is encouraged by the fact that the media give it coverage. For example it used to be, "Don't write about suicide" because the mere mention of suicide might inspire someone to commit suicide in the next few days. Now we are flooded with all kinds of deviant inspiration. We live in a time of internet, Facebook, Twitter and adultery matchup-services. Like the phrase sometimes used in the RS-1 'Freedom Lecture,' "All Is Known," literally! The inundation of 'information' has either swamped us with stress and physical reaction or prompted a new level of defensive withdrawal from engaging. Scriptural wisdom and "Deciding" goes by the board! -----Original Message----- From: steve har via OE Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 6:06 AM To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> ; Order Ecumenical ICA-USA Subject: [Oe List ...] Breakfast News Conversations...
Also called scripture/news conversations
You remember them right? random bits of recalled news and then a piece of scriptural wisdom what to do about it?
These days news like trying to "drink from a fire hose" My experience now living in the USfA now rather than Costa Rica and listening to USA media is curious.
Feels to me like a case of news culture ADHD where nothing is connected to anything except by more and more crisis news events, more passionate & positional thinking more economic political and cultural and more and more "news journalists" driving to their bank on the stream of news.
My friend Jack Gilles, if I quote him right, says ORID conversations no longer have a "D" now because it it is all interpretation, everyone has an opinion, everyone is a spectator stuck in the stands watching an unplayable game.
Now in conversations is no "D" in ORID, no one knows how to Decide or what Do. "D" stands for Dumpster or "Don't decide" or "Despair" or just "Done".
Joe Mathews had a paper, I believe, which he called the liberal heresy - aybe it was the conservative heresy or the reactionary heresy. He used some fancy theological terminology like "the immediacy of the eschaton" which I never did understand,exactly. Anyone remember this paper?
Wondering where IS the scripture part, the wisdom part of the breakfast news conversation?
The Christian Science Monitor says THEY are doing two things...As days and weeks pass, the media move on to new stories, often neglecting to tell the “what’s possible?” stories about how the people and communities affected by these tragedies are coping and what they’re learning. We hear these types of stories on one-year anniversaries, but they’re not an ongoing part of the media’s coverage the way that the “what happened?” stories are. A growing body of research is confirming what many have long suspected — that a steady diet of trauma and disaster triggers stress, fear and trauma in those consuming the stories.
What if the news media covered stories of recovery and resilience as much as they cover stories about devastation and despair? http://ivoh.org/restorativenarrative/ <http://ivoh.org/restorativenarrative/>
Steve
-- Steve _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net>
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net>
The version of The Liberal Heresy was actually penned by Desmond Avery in a summer program for the publication there. It came from content of JWM, but was written by Desmond in his inimitable style. John On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Jack Gilles via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net
wrote:
This paper is an interesting read and gives an insight to what our thinking was way back in 1976! This talk was not given by JWM. My guess would be Gene Marshall, it has his style to it.
It made me think that if I was giving such a talk today those would not be my points. It is not that they don’t, or didn’t, have a validity, but it is not how I experience the heresy today, if you want to call it that.
My four columns would be:
1. *Righteous Demonization*. My Facebook gets a lot of these. “If there weren’t all these selfish and stupid people causing all these problems we’d get the job done!”
2. *Focus on Issues, not Contradictions *This shows up with a disregard for the systemic nature of life.
3. *Winning the argument is more important than solving the problem*. Highly located in academia, but a disease possessed by many.
4. Wisdom does lie in the people who live the situations that need to change. Call it “*Expertise-ism”*.
These are just four quick ones off the top of my head. But they seem to be more in line with what I encounter than the old ones. There are also points in the ignorance of the role of spirit, symbol, etc. in the change process.
Peace,
Jack
On Aug 25, 2015, at 12:59 PM, Frank Knutson via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Enclosed: THE LIBERAL HERESY \ I think it was given by John Epps or maybe Gene Marshall???? <THE LIBERAL HERESY.docx>
*"What appears to be a breaking down of civilization may well be simply the breaking up of old forms by life itself."* * ~ *Joyce Carol Oates <VIKING copy.jpeg> ❤ Frank
On Aug 25, 2015, at 8:39 AM, Rod Rippel via Dialogue < dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Fascists and dictators (and now just about everyone) have long understood that deviant behavior is encouraged by the fact that the media give it coverage. For example it used to be, "Don't write about suicide" because the mere mention of suicide might inspire someone to commit suicide in the next few days. Now we are flooded with all kinds of deviant inspiration. We live in a time of internet, Facebook, Twitter and adultery matchup-services. Like the phrase sometimes used in the RS-1 'Freedom Lecture,' "All Is Known," literally! The inundation of 'information' has either swamped us with stress and physical reaction or prompted a new level of defensive withdrawal from engaging. Scriptural wisdom and "Deciding" goes by the board! -----Original Message----- From: steve har via OE Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 6:06 AM To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net ; Order Ecumenical ICA-USA Subject: [Oe List ...] Breakfast News Conversations...
Also called scripture/news conversations
You remember them right? random bits of recalled news and then a piece of scriptural wisdom what to do about it?
These days news like trying to "drink from a fire hose" My experience now living in the USfA now rather than Costa Rica and listening to USA media is curious.
Feels to me like a case of news culture ADHD where nothing is connected to anything except by more and more crisis news events, more passionate & positional thinking more economic political and cultural and more and more "news journalists" driving to their bank on the stream of news.
My friend Jack Gilles, if I quote him right, says ORID conversations no longer have a "D" now because it it is all interpretation, everyone has an opinion, everyone is a spectator stuck in the stands watching an unplayable game.
Now in conversations is no "D" in ORID, no one knows how to Decide or what Do. "D" stands for Dumpster or "Don't decide" or "Despair" or just "Done".
Joe Mathews had a paper, I believe, which he called the liberal heresy - aybe it was the conservative heresy or the reactionary heresy. He used some fancy theological terminology like "the immediacy of the eschaton" which I never did understand,exactly. Anyone remember this paper?
Wondering where IS the scripture part, the wisdom part of the breakfast news conversation?
The Christian Science Monitor says THEY are doing two things...As days and weeks pass, the media move on to new stories, often neglecting to tell the “what’s possible?” stories about how the people and communities affected by these tragedies are coping and what they’re learning. We hear these types of stories on one-year anniversaries, but they’re not an ongoing part of the media’s coverage the way that the “what happened?” stories are. A growing body of research is confirming what many have long suspected — that a steady diet of trauma and disaster triggers stress, fear and trauma in those consuming the stories.
What if the news media covered stories of recovery and resilience as much as they cover stories about devastation and despair? http://ivoh.org/restorativenarrative/
Steve
-- Steve _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
This is great. Hits smack on where my sensitivities are being rubbed raw especially by online/media life. Margaret Wheatley talks about being "distracted beyond recall" in So Far From Home. Tex Sample, in Powerful Persuasion, describes the fundamental shift in literacy from print to electronic and the task of becoming deeply literate, both in the input and output (reading and writing equivalent) And, here, is Ken Gilgren reflecting a bit on some social media and where they might fit http://patterns.gillgrencommunication.com/2009/03/12/demystifying-social-net... (Sigh). Jim Wiegel 401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353 Tel. 011-623-936-8671 or 011-623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com [We have] been pressed so hard towards useful work and rational calculation [that we have] all but forgotten the joy of ecstatic celebration. Harvey Cox Get ready to Celebrate the 25th Anniversary of the ToP Network. January 8-11, 2016. Here in Arizona. http://youtu.be/2uEoJlDC5mg Upcoming public course opportunities click here http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=10 For online registration go to http://www.top-training.net The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, 1-4 pm, starting again on Sept 5th at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003 AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses
On Aug 25, 2015, at 22:20, John Epps via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
The version of The Liberal Heresy was actually penned by Desmond Avery in a summer program for the publication there. It came from content of JWM, but was written by Desmond in his inimitable style.
John
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Jack Gilles via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: This paper is an interesting read and gives an insight to what our thinking was way back in 1976! This talk was not given by JWM. My guess would be Gene Marshall, it has his style to it.
It made me think that if I was giving such a talk today those would not be my points. It is not that they don’t, or didn’t, have a validity, but it is not how I experience the heresy today, if you want to call it that.
My four columns would be:
1. Righteous Demonization. My Facebook gets a lot of these. “If there weren’t all these selfish and stupid people causing all these problems we’d get the job done!”
2. Focus on Issues, not Contradictions This shows up with a disregard for the systemic nature of life.
3. Winning the argument is more important than solving the problem. Highly located in academia, but a disease possessed by many.
4. Wisdom does lie in the people who live the situations that need to change. Call it “Expertise-ism”.
These are just four quick ones off the top of my head. But they seem to be more in line with what I encounter than the old ones. There are also points in the ignorance of the role of spirit, symbol, etc. in the change process.
Peace,
Jack
On Aug 25, 2015, at 12:59 PM, Frank Knutson via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Enclosed: THE LIBERAL HERESY \ I think it was given by John Epps or maybe Gene Marshall???? <THE LIBERAL HERESY.docx>
"What appears to be a breaking down of civilization may well be simply the breaking up of old forms by life itself." ~ Joyce Carol Oates <VIKING copy.jpeg> ❤ Frank
On Aug 25, 2015, at 8:39 AM, Rod Rippel via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Fascists and dictators (and now just about everyone) have long understood that deviant behavior is encouraged by the fact that the media give it coverage. For example it used to be, "Don't write about suicide" because the mere mention of suicide might inspire someone to commit suicide in the next few days. Now we are flooded with all kinds of deviant inspiration. We live in a time of internet, Facebook, Twitter and adultery matchup-services. Like the phrase sometimes used in the RS-1 'Freedom Lecture,' "All Is Known," literally! The inundation of 'information' has either swamped us with stress and physical reaction or prompted a new level of defensive withdrawal from engaging. Scriptural wisdom and "Deciding" goes by the board! -----Original Message----- From: steve har via OE Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 6:06 AM To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net ; Order Ecumenical ICA-USA Subject: [Oe List ...] Breakfast News Conversations...
Also called scripture/news conversations
You remember them right? random bits of recalled news and then a piece of scriptural wisdom what to do about it?
These days news like trying to "drink from a fire hose" My experience now living in the USfA now rather than Costa Rica and listening to USA media is curious.
Feels to me like a case of news culture ADHD where nothing is connected to anything except by more and more crisis news events, more passionate & positional thinking more economic political and cultural and more and more "news journalists" driving to their bank on the stream of news.
My friend Jack Gilles, if I quote him right, says ORID conversations no longer have a "D" now because it it is all interpretation, everyone has an opinion, everyone is a spectator stuck in the stands watching an unplayable game.
Now in conversations is no "D" in ORID, no one knows how to Decide or what Do. "D" stands for Dumpster or "Don't decide" or "Despair" or just "Done".
Joe Mathews had a paper, I believe, which he called the liberal heresy - aybe it was the conservative heresy or the reactionary heresy. He used some fancy theological terminology like "the immediacy of the eschaton" which I never did understand,exactly. Anyone remember this paper?
Wondering where IS the scripture part, the wisdom part of the breakfast news conversation?
The Christian Science Monitor says THEY are doing two things...As days and weeks pass, the media move on to new stories, often neglecting to tell the “what’s possible?” stories about how the people and communities affected by these tragedies are coping and what they’re learning. We hear these types of stories on one-year anniversaries, but they’re not an ongoing part of the media’s coverage the way that the “what happened?” stories are. A growing body of research is confirming what many have long suspected — that a steady diet of trauma and disaster triggers stress, fear and trauma in those consuming the stories.
What if the news media covered stories of recovery and resilience as much as they cover stories about devastation and despair? http://ivoh.org/restorativenarrative/
Steve
-- Steve _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Ellen here. I can't help leaping in and wondering do we have a sniff of what our Fall Global Study needs to be? I have just begun reading David Brooks: THE ROAD TO CHARACTER. I will be having cataract surgery on 10/4 with the hopes that this will result in the fine outcome which my other eye (now 20/30) enjoys and as I told my MEDIA MENTOR Steve Harrington, make computer work a bit more comfortable....sight is a beautiful thing! On Aug 26, 2015, at 7:48 AM, James Wiegel via OE wrote:
This is great. Hits smack on where my sensitivities are being rubbed raw especially by online/media life. Margaret Wheatley talks about being "distracted beyond recall" in So Far From Home. Tex Sample, in Powerful Persuasion, describes the fundamental shift in literacy from print to electronic and the task of becoming deeply literate, both in the input and output (reading and writing equivalent)
And, here, is Ken Gilgren reflecting a bit on some social media and where they might fit http://patterns.gillgrencommunication.com/2009/03/12/demystifying- social-networking-media/
(Sigh).
Jim Wiegel 401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353 Tel. 011-623-936-8671 or 011-623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com
[We have] been pressed so hard towards useful work and rational calculation [that we have] all but forgotten the joy of ecstatic celebration. Harvey Cox
Get ready to Celebrate the 25th Anniversary of the ToP Network. January 8-11, 2016. Here in Arizona. http://youtu.be/2uEoJlDC5mg
Upcoming public course opportunities click here http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=10 For online registration go to http://www.top-training.net
The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, 1-4 pm, starting again on Sept 5th at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003 AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses
On Aug 25, 2015, at 22:20, John Epps via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
The version of The Liberal Heresy was actually penned by Desmond Avery in a summer program for the publication there. It came from content of JWM, but was written by Desmond in his inimitable style.
John
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 2:45 PM, Jack Gilles via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: This paper is an interesting read and gives an insight to what our thinking was way back in 1976! This talk was not given by JWM. My guess would be Gene Marshall, it has his style to it.
It made me think that if I was giving such a talk today those would not be my points. It is not that they don’t, or didn’t, have a validity, but it is not how I experience the heresy today, if you want to call it that.
My four columns would be:
1. Righteous Demonization. My Facebook gets a lot of these. “If there weren’t all these selfish and stupid people causing all these problems we’d get the job done!”
2. Focus on Issues, not Contradictions This shows up with a disregard for the systemic nature of life.
3. Winning the argument is more important than solving the problem. Highly located in academia, but a disease possessed by many.
4. Wisdom does lie in the people who live the situations that need to change. Call it “Expertise-ism”.
These are just four quick ones off the top of my head. But they seem to be more in line with what I encounter than the old ones. There are also points in the ignorance of the role of spirit, symbol, etc. in the change process.
Peace,
Jack
On Aug 25, 2015, at 12:59 PM, Frank Knutson via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Enclosed: THE LIBERAL HERESY \ I think it was given by John Epps or maybe Gene Marshall???? <THE LIBERAL HERESY.docx>
"What appears to be a breaking down of civilization may well be simply the breaking up of old forms by life itself." ~ Joyce Carol Oates <VIKING copy.jpeg> ❤ Frank
On Aug 25, 2015, at 8:39 AM, Rod Rippel via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Fascists and dictators (and now just about everyone) have long understood that deviant behavior is encouraged by the fact that the media give it coverage. For example it used to be, "Don't write about suicide" because the mere mention of suicide might inspire someone to commit suicide in the next few days. Now we are flooded with all kinds of deviant inspiration. We live in a time of internet, Facebook, Twitter and adultery matchup-services. Like the phrase sometimes used in the RS-1 'Freedom Lecture,' "All Is Known," literally! The inundation of 'information' has either swamped us with stress and physical reaction or prompted a new level of defensive withdrawal from engaging. Scriptural wisdom and "Deciding" goes by the board! -----Original Message----- From: steve har via OE Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 6:06 AM To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net ; Order Ecumenical ICA-USA Subject: [Oe List ...] Breakfast News Conversations...
Also called scripture/news conversations
You remember them right? random bits of recalled news and then a piece of scriptural wisdom what to do about it?
These days news like trying to "drink from a fire hose" My experience now living in the USfA now rather than Costa Rica and listening to USA media is curious.
Feels to me like a case of news culture ADHD where nothing is connected to anything except by more and more crisis news events, more passionate & positional thinking more economic political and cultural and more and more "news journalists" driving to their bank on the stream of news.
My friend Jack Gilles, if I quote him right, says ORID conversations no longer have a "D" now because it it is all interpretation, everyone has an opinion, everyone is a spectator stuck in the stands watching an unplayable game.
Now in conversations is no "D" in ORID, no one knows how to Decide or what Do. "D" stands for Dumpster or "Don't decide" or "Despair" or just "Done".
Joe Mathews had a paper, I believe, which he called the liberal heresy - aybe it was the conservative heresy or the reactionary heresy. He used some fancy theological terminology like "the immediacy of the eschaton" which I never did understand,exactly. Anyone remember this paper?
Wondering where IS the scripture part, the wisdom part of the breakfast news conversation?
The Christian Science Monitor says THEY are doing two things...As days and weeks pass, the media move on to new stories, often neglecting to tell the “what’s possible?” stories about how the people and communities affected by these tragedies are coping and what they’re learning. We hear these types of stories on one-year anniversaries, but they’re not an ongoing part of the media’s coverage the way that the “what happened?” stories are. A growing body of research is confirming what many have long suspected — that a steady diet of trauma and disaster triggers stress, fear and trauma in those consuming the stories.
What if the news media covered stories of recovery and resilience as much as they cover stories about devastation and despair? http://ivoh.org/restorativenarrative/
Steve
-- Steve _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
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Jack, Thanks for this. Like Weigel said, this really articulates where I get rubbed raw by all the social media/online activity. And it makes me glad that I’m not living in the US and so don’t have to deal with people actually saying this stuff out loud to me. At least on Facebook, I can just keep scrolling by. . . Not really the most effective response, but I’m feeling tired. Terran E. Longacre Monrovia, Liberia just another child of God Blog: http://tlongacre.wordpress.com <http://tlongacre.wordpress.com/> Run Blog: http://revruns.blogspot.com <http://revruns.blogspot.com/> Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tlongacre/ <http://www.flickr.com/photos/tlongacre/> ———-O0ooo— ———–(——)— ————)–-/—- ————(_/- —-ooo0O—- —-(——)—- —–\-–(– ——\_)-
On 25 Aug, 2015, at 20:45 , Jack Gilles via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
This paper is an interesting read and gives an insight to what our thinking was way back in 1976! This talk was not given by JWM. My guess would be Gene Marshall, it has his style to it.
It made me think that if I was giving such a talk today those would not be my points. It is not that they don’t, or didn’t, have a validity, but it is not how I experience the heresy today, if you want to call it that.
My four columns would be:
1. Righteous Demonization. My Facebook gets a lot of these. “If there weren’t all these selfish and stupid people causing all these problems we’d get the job done!”
2. Focus on Issues, not Contradictions This shows up with a disregard for the systemic nature of life.
3. Winning the argument is more important than solving the problem. Highly located in academia, but a disease possessed by many.
4. Wisdom does lie in the people who live the situations that need to change. Call it “Expertise-ism”.
These are just four quick ones off the top of my head. But they seem to be more in line with what I encounter than the old ones. There are also points in the ignorance of the role of spirit, symbol, etc. in the change process.
Peace,
Jack
On Aug 25, 2015, at 12:59 PM, Frank Knutson via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
Enclosed: THE LIBERAL HERESY \ I think it was given by John Epps or maybe Gene Marshall???? <THE LIBERAL HERESY.docx>
"What appears to be a breaking down of civilization may well be simply the breaking up of old forms by life itself." ~ Joyce Carol Oates <VIKING copy.jpeg> ❤ Frank
On Aug 25, 2015, at 8:39 AM, Rod Rippel via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
Fascists and dictators (and now just about everyone) have long understood that deviant behavior is encouraged by the fact that the media give it coverage. For example it used to be, "Don't write about suicide" because the mere mention of suicide might inspire someone to commit suicide in the next few days. Now we are flooded with all kinds of deviant inspiration. We live in a time of internet, Facebook, Twitter and adultery matchup-services. Like the phrase sometimes used in the RS-1 'Freedom Lecture,' "All Is Known," literally! The inundation of 'information' has either swamped us with stress and physical reaction or prompted a new level of defensive withdrawal from engaging. Scriptural wisdom and "Deciding" goes by the board! -----Original Message----- From: steve har via OE Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 6:06 AM To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> ; Order Ecumenical ICA-USA Subject: [Oe List ...] Breakfast News Conversations...
Also called scripture/news conversations
You remember them right? random bits of recalled news and then a piece of scriptural wisdom what to do about it?
These days news like trying to "drink from a fire hose" My experience now living in the USfA now rather than Costa Rica and listening to USA media is curious.
Feels to me like a case of news culture ADHD where nothing is connected to anything except by more and more crisis news events, more passionate & positional thinking more economic political and cultural and more and more "news journalists" driving to their bank on the stream of news.
My friend Jack Gilles, if I quote him right, says ORID conversations no longer have a "D" now because it it is all interpretation, everyone has an opinion, everyone is a spectator stuck in the stands watching an unplayable game.
Now in conversations is no "D" in ORID, no one knows how to Decide or what Do. "D" stands for Dumpster or "Don't decide" or "Despair" or just "Done".
Joe Mathews had a paper, I believe, which he called the liberal heresy - aybe it was the conservative heresy or the reactionary heresy. He used some fancy theological terminology like "the immediacy of the eschaton" which I never did understand,exactly. Anyone remember this paper?
Wondering where IS the scripture part, the wisdom part of the breakfast news conversation?
The Christian Science Monitor says THEY are doing two things...As days and weeks pass, the media move on to new stories, often neglecting to tell the “what’s possible?” stories about how the people and communities affected by these tragedies are coping and what they’re learning. We hear these types of stories on one-year anniversaries, but they’re not an ongoing part of the media’s coverage the way that the “what happened?” stories are. A growing body of research is confirming what many have long suspected — that a steady diet of trauma and disaster triggers stress, fear and trauma in those consuming the stories.
What if the news media covered stories of recovery and resilience as much as they cover stories about devastation and despair? http://ivoh.org/restorativenarrative/ <http://ivoh.org/restorativenarrative/>
Steve
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Regarding the liberal heresy, one of the learnings I remember from the study of this paper is that in formulating some of the early creeds of the church, heresy was not a perversion of orthodoxy, but instead heresy preceded and gave rise to orthodoxy. Someone would come forth with a doctrine or tenet or whatever and the establishment would say, "well that's not correct, that's not what we believe." In the process they would be forced to formulate what they did believe, which often would then become the orthodox position. Seen in this light, heresy actually is a contributing factor, the motivation behind the church getting clarity on where it stood. Not sure what we would point to in the social realm as heresy today, but it seems possible that, whatever it is, it could play that same role of forcing us to clarify our own position. Randy Sent from my iPad
On Aug 25, 2015, at 12:59 PM, Frank Knutson via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Enclosed: THE LIBERAL HERESY \ I think it was given by John Epps or maybe Gene Marshall???? <THE LIBERAL HERESY.docx>
"What appears to be a breaking down of civilization may well be simply the breaking up of old forms by life itself." ~ Joyce Carol Oates <VIKING copy.jpeg> ❤ Frank
On Aug 25, 2015, at 8:39 AM, Rod Rippel via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Fascists and dictators (and now just about everyone) have long understood that deviant behavior is encouraged by the fact that the media give it coverage. For example it used to be, "Don't write about suicide" because the mere mention of suicide might inspire someone to commit suicide in the next few days. Now we are flooded with all kinds of deviant inspiration. We live in a time of internet, Facebook, Twitter and adultery matchup-services. Like the phrase sometimes used in the RS-1 'Freedom Lecture,' "All Is Known," literally! The inundation of 'information' has either swamped us with stress and physical reaction or prompted a new level of defensive withdrawal from engaging. Scriptural wisdom and "Deciding" goes by the board! -----Original Message----- From: steve har via OE Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 6:06 AM To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net ; Order Ecumenical ICA-USA Subject: [Oe List ...] Breakfast News Conversations...
Also called scripture/news conversations
You remember them right? random bits of recalled news and then a piece of scriptural wisdom what to do about it?
These days news like trying to "drink from a fire hose" My experience now living in the USfA now rather than Costa Rica and listening to USA media is curious.
Feels to me like a case of news culture ADHD where nothing is connected to anything except by more and more crisis news events, more passionate & positional thinking more economic political and cultural and more and more "news journalists" driving to their bank on the stream of news.
My friend Jack Gilles, if I quote him right, says ORID conversations no longer have a "D" now because it it is all interpretation, everyone has an opinion, everyone is a spectator stuck in the stands watching an unplayable game.
Now in conversations is no "D" in ORID, no one knows how to Decide or what Do. "D" stands for Dumpster or "Don't decide" or "Despair" or just "Done".
Joe Mathews had a paper, I believe, which he called the liberal heresy - aybe it was the conservative heresy or the reactionary heresy. He used some fancy theological terminology like "the immediacy of the eschaton" which I never did understand,exactly. Anyone remember this paper?
Wondering where IS the scripture part, the wisdom part of the breakfast news conversation?
The Christian Science Monitor says THEY are doing two things...As days and weeks pass, the media move on to new stories, often neglecting to tell the “what’s possible?” stories about how the people and communities affected by these tragedies are coping and what they’re learning. We hear these types of stories on one-year anniversaries, but they’re not an ongoing part of the media’s coverage the way that the “what happened?” stories are. A growing body of research is confirming what many have long suspected — that a steady diet of trauma and disaster triggers stress, fear and trauma in those consuming the stories.
What if the news media covered stories of recovery and resilience as much as they cover stories about devastation and despair? http://ivoh.org/restorativenarrative/
Steve
-- Steve _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
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Good point, Randy. I think the "liberal heresy" today would be that the United States is called to fully accept all immigrants, without conditions. The Trump plan to deport all who are undocumented is the opposite. What might be the "orthodox" belief. Karen (Wright) Bueno -----Original Message----- From: Randy Williams via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Frank Knutson <f.knutson@earthlink.net> Cc: Order Ecumenical ICA-USA <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Order Ecumenical ICA-USA <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2015 6:57 am Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Breakfast News Conversations... Regarding the liberal heresy, one of the learnings I remember from the study of this paper is that in formulating some of the early creeds of the church, heresy was not a perversion of orthodoxy, but instead heresy preceded and gave rise to orthodoxy. Someone would come forth with a doctrine or tenet or whatever and the establishment would say, "well that's not correct, that's not what we believe." In the process they would be forced to formulate what they did believe, which often would then become the orthodox position. Seen in this light, heresy actually is a contributing factor, the motivation behind the church getting clarity on where it stood. Not sure what we would point to in the social realm as heresy today, but it seems possible that, whatever it is, it could play that same role of forcing us to clarify our own position. Randy Sent from my iPad On Aug 25, 2015, at 12:59 PM, Frank Knutson via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Enclosed: THE LIBERAL HERESY \ I think it was given by John Epps or maybe Gene Marshall???? <THE LIBERAL HERESY.docx> "What appears to be a breaking down of civilization may well be simply the breaking up of old forms by life itself." ~ Joyce Carol Oates <VIKING copy.jpeg> ❤ Frank On Aug 25, 2015, at 8:39 AM, Rod Rippel via Dialogue < dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Fascists and dictators (and now just about everyone) have long understood that deviant behavior is encouraged by the fact that the media give it coverage. For example it used to be, "Don't write about suicide" because the mere mention of suicide might inspire someone to commit suicide in the next few days. Now we are flooded with all kinds of deviant inspiration. We live in a time of internet, Facebook, Twitter and adultery matchup-services. Like the phrase sometimes used in the RS-1 'Freedom Lecture,' "All Is Known," literally! The inundation of 'information' has either swamped us with stress and physical reaction or prompted a new level of defensive withdrawal from engaging. Scriptural wisdom and "Deciding" goes by the board! -----Original Message----- From: steve har via OE Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 6:06 AM To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net ; Order Ecumenical ICA-USA Subject: [Oe List ...] Breakfast News Conversations... Also called scripture/news conversations You remember them right? random bits of recalled news and then a piece of scriptural wisdom what to do about it? These days news like trying to "drink from a fire hose" My experience now living in the USfA now rather than Costa Rica and listening to USA media is curious. Feels to me like a case of news culture ADHD where nothing is connected to anything except by more and more crisis news events, more passionate & positional thinking more economic political and cultural and more and more "news journalists" driving to their bank on the stream of news. My friend Jack Gilles, if I quote him right, says ORID conversations no longer have a "D" now because it it is all interpretation, everyone has an opinion, everyone is a spectator stuck in the stands watching an unplayable game. Now in conversations is no "D" in ORID, no one knows how to Decide or what Do. "D" stands for Dumpster or "Don't decide" or "Despair" or just "Done". Joe Mathews had a paper, I believe, which he called the liberal heresy - aybe it was the conservative heresy or the reactionary heresy. He used some fancy theological terminology like "the immediacy of the eschaton" which I never did understand,exactly. Anyone remember this paper? Wondering where IS the scripture part, the wisdom part of the breakfast news conversation? The Christian Science Monitor says THEY are doing two things...As days and weeks pass, the media move on to new stories, often neglecting to tell the “what’s possible?” stories about how the people and communities affected by these tragedies are coping and what they’re learning. We hear these types of stories on one-year anniversaries, but they’re not an ongoing part of the media’s coverage the way that the “what happened?” stories are. A growing body of research is confirming what many have long suspected — that a steady diet of trauma and disaster triggers stress, fear and trauma in those consuming the stories. What if the news media covered stories of recovery and resilience as much as they cover stories about devastation and despair? http://ivoh.org/restorativenarrative/ Steve -- Steve _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Kind of depends on whether we see ourselves more as an independent national community with a mob at our gates, a kind of "we and them" mentality, or we see an interdependent global community where we're all in it together. IMHO, it's all in the story we tell ourselves. Randy Sent from my iPad
On Aug 31, 2015, at 9:24 AM, Karenbueno <karenbueno@aol.com> wrote:
Good point, Randy. I think the "liberal heresy" today would be that the United States is called to fully accept all immigrants, without conditions. The Trump plan to deport all who are undocumented is the opposite. What might be the "orthodox" belief.
Karen (Wright) Bueno
-----Original Message----- From: Randy Williams via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Frank Knutson <f.knutson@earthlink.net> Cc: Order Ecumenical ICA-USA <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Order Ecumenical ICA-USA <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2015 6:57 am Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Breakfast News Conversations...
Regarding the liberal heresy, one of the learnings I remember from the study of this paper is that in formulating some of the early creeds of the church, heresy was not a perversion of orthodoxy, but instead heresy preceded and gave rise to orthodoxy. Someone would come forth with a doctrine or tenet or whatever and the establishment would say, "well that's not correct, that's not what we believe." In the process they would be forced to formulate what they did believe, which often would then become the orthodox position. Seen in this light, heresy actually is a contributing factor, the motivation behind the church getting clarity on where it stood. Not sure what we would point to in the social realm as heresy today, but it seems possible that, whatever it is, it could play that same role of forcing us to clarify our own position. Randy
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 25, 2015, at 12:59 PM, Frank Knutson via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Enclosed: THE LIBERAL HERESY \ I think it was given by John Epps or maybe Gene Marshall???? <THE LIBERAL HERESY.docx>
"What appears to be a breaking down of civilization may well be simply the breaking up of old forms by life itself." ~ Joyce Carol Oates <VIKING copy.jpeg> ❤ Frank
On Aug 25, 2015, at 8:39 AM, Rod Rippel via Dialogue < dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Fascists and dictators (and now just about everyone) have long understood that deviant behavior is encouraged by the fact that the media give it coverage. For example it used to be, "Don't write about suicide" because the mere mention of suicide might inspire someone to commit suicide in the next few days. Now we are flooded with all kinds of deviant inspiration. We live in a time of internet, Facebook, Twitter and adultery matchup-services. Like the phrase sometimes used in the RS-1 'Freedom Lecture,' "All Is Known," literally! The inundation of 'information' has either swamped us with stress and physical reaction or prompted a new level of defensive withdrawal from engaging. Scriptural wisdom and "Deciding" goes by the board! -----Original Message----- From: steve har via OE Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 6:06 AM To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net ; Order Ecumenical ICA-USA Subject: [Oe List ...] Breakfast News Conversations...
Also called scripture/news conversations
You remember them right? random bits of recalled news and then a piece of scriptural wisdom what to do about it?
These days news like trying to "drink from a fire hose" My experience now living in the USfA now rather than Costa Rica and listening to USA media is curious.
Feels to me like a case of news culture ADHD where nothing is connected to anything except by more and more crisis news events, more passionate & positional thinking more economic political and cultural and more and more "news journalists" driving to their bank on the stream of news.
My friend Jack Gilles, if I quote him right, says ORID conversations no longer have a "D" now because it it is all interpretation, everyone has an opinion, everyone is a spectator stuck in the stands watching an unplayable game.
Now in conversations is no "D" in ORID, no one knows how to Decide or what Do. "D" stands for Dumpster or "Don't decide" or "Despair" or just "Done".
Joe Mathews had a paper, I believe, which he called the liberal heresy - aybe it was the conservative heresy or the reactionary heresy. He used some fancy theological terminology like "the immediacy of the eschaton" which I never did understand,exactly. Anyone remember this paper?
Wondering where IS the scripture part, the wisdom part of the breakfast news conversation?
The Christian Science Monitor says THEY are doing two things...As days and weeks pass, the media move on to new stories, often neglecting to tell the “what’s possible?” stories about how the people and communities affected by these tragedies are coping and what they’re learning. We hear these types of stories on one-year anniversaries, but they’re not an ongoing part of the media’s coverage the way that the “what happened?” stories are. A growing body of research is confirming what many have long suspected — that a steady diet of trauma and disaster triggers stress, fear and trauma in those consuming the stories.
What if the news media covered stories of recovery and resilience as much as they cover stories about devastation and despair? http://ivoh.org/restorativenarrative/
Steve
-- Steve _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Does the liberal heresy apply only to our treatment of humans? From: Randy Williams via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Reply-To: Randy Williams <randycw1938@gmail.com> Date: Monday, August 31, 2015 at 10:55 AM To: "KarenBueno@aol.com" <KarenBueno@aol.com> Cc: "oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>, "dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net" <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Dialogue] [Oe List ...] Breakfast News Conversations... Kind of depends on whether we see ourselves more as an independent national community with a mob at our gates, a kind of "we and them" mentality, or we see an interdependent global community where we're all in it together. IMHO, it's all in the story we tell ourselves. Randy Sent from my iPad On Aug 31, 2015, at 9:24 AM, Karenbueno <karenbueno@aol.com> wrote:
Good point, Randy. I think the "liberal heresy" today would be that the United States is called to fully accept all immigrants, without conditions. The Trump plan to deport all who are undocumented is the opposite. What might be the "orthodox" belief.
Karen (Wright) Bueno
-----Original Message----- From: Randy Williams via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Frank Knutson <f.knutson@earthlink.net> Cc: Order Ecumenical ICA-USA <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Order Ecumenical ICA-USA <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2015 6:57 am Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Breakfast News Conversations...
Regarding the liberal heresy, one of the learnings I remember from the study of this paper is that in formulating some of the early creeds of the church, heresy was not a perversion of orthodoxy, but instead heresy preceded and gave rise to orthodoxy. Someone would come forth with a doctrine or tenet or whatever and the establishment would say, "well that's not correct, that's not what we believe." In the process they would be forced to formulate what they did believe, which often would then become the orthodox position. Seen in this light, heresy actually is a contributing factor, the motivation behind the church getting clarity on where it stood. Not sure what we would point to in the social realm as heresy today, but it seems possible that, whatever it is, it could play that same role of forcing us to clarify our own position.
Randy
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 25, 2015, at 12:59 PM, Frank Knutson via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Enclosed: THE LIBERAL HERESY \ I think it was given by John Epps or maybe Gene Marshall????
<THE LIBERAL HERESY.docx>
"What appears to be a breaking down of civilization may well be simply the breaking up of old forms by life itself." ~ Joyce Carol Oates
<VIKING copy.jpeg>
❤ Frank
On Aug 25, 2015, at 8:39 AM, Rod Rippel via Dialogue < dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Fascists and dictators (and now just about everyone) have long understood that deviant behavior is encouraged by the fact that the media give it coverage. For example it used to be, "Don't write about suicide" because the mere mention of suicide might inspire someone to commit suicide in the next few days. Now we are flooded with all kinds of deviant inspiration. We live in a time of internet, Facebook, Twitter and adultery matchup-services. Like the phrase sometimes used in the RS-1 'Freedom Lecture,' "All Is Known," literally! The inundation of 'information' has either swamped us with stress and physical reaction or prompted a new level of defensive withdrawal from engaging. Scriptural wisdom and "Deciding" goes by the board! -----Original Message----- From: steve har via OE Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 6:06 AM To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net ; Order Ecumenical ICA-USA Subject: [Oe List ...] Breakfast News Conversations...
Also called scripture/news conversations
You remember them right? random bits of recalled news and then a piece of scriptural wisdom what to do about it?
These days news like trying to "drink from a fire hose" My experience now living in the USfA now rather than Costa Rica and listening to USA media is curious.
Feels to me like a case of news culture ADHD where nothing is connected to anything except by more and more crisis news events, more passionate & positional thinking more economic political and cultural and more and more "news journalists" driving to their bank on the stream of news.
My friend Jack Gilles, if I quote him right, says ORID conversations no longer have a "D" now because it it is all interpretation, everyone has an opinion, everyone is a spectator stuck in the stands watching an unplayable game.
Now in conversations is no "D" in ORID, no one knows how to Decide or what Do. "D" stands for Dumpster or "Don't decide" or "Despair" or just "Done".
Joe Mathews had a paper, I believe, which he called the liberal heresy - aybe it was the conservative heresy or the reactionary heresy. He used some fancy theological terminology like "the immediacy of the eschaton" which I never did understand,exactly. Anyone remember this paper?
Wondering where IS the scripture part, the wisdom part of the breakfast news conversation?
The Christian Science Monitor says THEY are doing two things...As days and weeks pass, the media move on to new stories, often neglecting to tell the “what’s possible?” stories about how the people and communities affected by these tragedies are coping and what they’re learning. We hear these types of stories on one-year anniversaries, but they’re not an ongoing part of the media’s coverage the way that the “what happened?” stories are. A growing body of research is confirming what many have long suspected — that a steady diet of trauma and disaster triggers stress, fear and trauma in those consuming the stories.
What if the news media covered stories of recovery and resilience as much as they cover stories about devastation and despair? http://ivoh.org/restorativenarrative/
Steve
-- Steve _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
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Maybe we should write and publish on 'The Conservative Right-Wing Heresies' (note: they are plural). Starting with Fox [so-called] News.There could be a interesting correspondence with some 'Liberal Heresy' points. But I note that 'The Liberal Heresy' was addressed to 'us', not to 'them'. In other words, separating the liberal cop-outs from the radical revolutionaries who dare(d) to Do Something (however puny or mistargeted) based on vision/contradiction analysis/proposals/strategy/tactics/implementaries--instead of Doing Nothing.Marshall On Monday, August 31, 2015 8:18 AM, John P Cock via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Does the liberal heresy apply only to our treatment of humans? From: Randy Williams via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Reply-To: Randy Williams <randycw1938@gmail.com> Date: Monday, August 31, 2015 at 10:55 AM To: "KarenBueno@aol.com" <KarenBueno@aol.com> Cc: "oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>, "dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net" <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Dialogue] [Oe List ...] Breakfast News Conversations... Kind of depends on whether we see ourselves more as an independent national community with a mob at our gates, a kind of "we and them" mentality, or we see an interdependent global community where we're all in it together. IMHO, it's all in the story we tell ourselves. Randy Sent from my iPad On Aug 31, 2015, at 9:24 AM, Karenbueno <karenbueno@aol.com> wrote: Good point, Randy. I think the "liberal heresy" today would be that the United States is called to fully accept all immigrants, without conditions. The Trump plan to deport all who are undocumented is the opposite. What might be the "orthodox" belief. Karen (Wright) Bueno -----Original Message----- From: Randy Williams via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Frank Knutson <f.knutson@earthlink.net> Cc: Order Ecumenical ICA-USA <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Order Ecumenical ICA-USA <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2015 6:57 am Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Breakfast News Conversations... Regarding the liberal heresy, one of the learnings I remember from the study of this paper is that in formulating some of the early creeds of the church, heresy was not a perversion of orthodoxy, but instead heresy preceded and gave rise to orthodoxy. Someone would come forth with a doctrine or tenet or whatever and the establishment would say, "well that's not correct, that's not what we believe." In the process they would be forced to formulate what they did believe, which often would then become the orthodox position. Seen in this light, heresy actually is a contributing factor, the motivation behind the church getting clarity on where it stood. Not sure what we would point to in the social realm as heresy today, but it seems possible that, whatever it is, it could play that same role of forcing us to clarify our own position. Randy Sent from my iPad On Aug 25, 2015, at 12:59 PM, Frank Knutson via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Enclosed: THE LIBERAL HERESY \I think it was given by John Epps or maybe Gene Marshall???? <THE LIBERAL HERESY.docx> "What appears to be a breaking down of civilization may well be simply the breaking up of old forms by life itself." ~ Joyce Carol Oates <VIKING copy.jpeg> ❤ Frank On Aug 25, 2015, at 8:39 AM, Rod Rippel via Dialogue < dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Fascists and dictators (and now just about everyone) have long understood that deviant behavior is encouraged by the fact that the media give it coverage. For example it used to be, "Don't write about suicide" because the mere mention of suicide might inspire someone to commit suicide in the next few days. Now we are flooded with all kinds of deviant inspiration. We live in a time of internet, Facebook, Twitter and adultery matchup-services. Like the phrase sometimes used in the RS-1 'Freedom Lecture,' "All Is Known," literally! The inundation of 'information' has either swamped us with stress and physical reaction or prompted a new level of defensive withdrawal from engaging. Scriptural wisdom and "Deciding" goes by the board! -----Original Message----- From: steve har via OE Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 6:06 AM To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net ; Order Ecumenical ICA-USA Subject: [Oe List ...] Breakfast News Conversations... Also called scripture/news conversations You remember them right? random bits of recalled news and then a piece of scriptural wisdom what to do about it? These days news like trying to "drink from a fire hose" My experience now living in the USfA now rather than Costa Rica and listening to USA media is curious. Feels to me like a case of news culture ADHD where nothing is connected to anything except by more and more crisis news events, more passionate & positional thinking more economic political and cultural and more and more "news journalists" driving to their bank on the stream of news. My friend Jack Gilles, if I quote him right, says ORID conversations no longer have a "D" now because it it is all interpretation, everyone has an opinion, everyone is a spectator stuck in the stands watching an unplayable game. Now in conversations is no "D" in ORID, no one knows how to Decide or what Do. "D" stands for Dumpster or "Don't decide" or "Despair" or just "Done". Joe Mathews had a paper, I believe, which he called the liberal heresy - aybe it was the conservative heresy or the reactionary heresy. He used some fancy theological terminology like "the immediacy of the eschaton" which I never did understand,exactly. Anyone remember this paper? Wondering where IS the scripture part, the wisdom part of the breakfast news conversation? The Christian Science Monitor says THEY are doing two things...As days and weeks pass, the media move on to new stories, often neglecting to tell the “what’s possible?” stories about how the people and communities affected by these tragedies are coping and what they’re learning. We hear these types of stories on one-year anniversaries, but they’re not an ongoing part of the media’s coverage the way that the “what happened?” stories are. A growing body of research is confirming what many have long suspected — that a steady diet of trauma and disaster triggers stress, fear and trauma in those consuming the stories. What if the news media covered stories of recovery and resilience as much as they cover stories about devastation and despair? http://ivoh.org/restorativenarrative/ Steve -- Steve _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.nethttp://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________Dialogue mailing listDialogue@lists.wedgeblade.nethttp://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
Good point, Marshall, re: the intended audience for the original Liberal Heresy spin/talk. Many of us who use “getting old” as a justification for increased inaction could well reflect on how the “label” LH applies even now. Am reading Jimmy Carter’s book, A Full Life, and see him as one who has defied that label for his almost-91 years of life. Marilyn From: OE [mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of W. J. via OE Sent: Monday, August 31, 2015 12:16 PM To: John P Cock; Randy Williams; Karenbueno Cc: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net; dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Breakfast News Conversations... Maybe we should write and publish on 'The Conservative Right-Wing Heresies' (note: they are plural). Starting with Fox [so-called] News. There could be a interesting correspondence with some 'Liberal Heresy' points. But I note that 'The Liberal Heresy' was addressed to 'us', not to 'them'. In other words, separating the liberal cop-outs from the radical revolutionaries who dare(d) to Do Something (however puny or mistargeted) based on vision/contradiction analysis/proposals/strategy/tactics/implementaries--instead of Doing Nothing. Marshall On Monday, August 31, 2015 8:18 AM, John P Cock via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Does the liberal heresy apply only to our treatment of humans? From: Randy Williams via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Reply-To: Randy Williams <randycw1938@gmail.com> Date: Monday, August 31, 2015 at 10:55 AM To: "KarenBueno@aol.com" <KarenBueno@aol.com> Cc: "oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>, "dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net" <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Dialogue] [Oe List ...] Breakfast News Conversations... Kind of depends on whether we see ourselves more as an independent national community with a mob at our gates, a kind of "we and them" mentality, or we see an interdependent global community where we're all in it together. IMHO, it's all in the story we tell ourselves. Randy Sent from my iPad On Aug 31, 2015, at 9:24 AM, Karenbueno <karenbueno@aol.com> wrote: Good point, Randy. I think the "liberal heresy" today would be that the United States is called to fully accept all immigrants, without conditions. The Trump plan to deport all who are undocumented is the opposite. What might be the "orthodox" belief. Karen (Wright) Bueno -----Original Message----- From: Randy Williams via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: Frank Knutson <f.knutson@earthlink.net> Cc: Order Ecumenical ICA-USA <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Order Ecumenical ICA-USA <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2015 6:57 am Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Breakfast News Conversations... Regarding the liberal heresy, one of the learnings I remember from the study of this paper is that in formulating some of the early creeds of the church, heresy was not a perversion of orthodoxy, but instead heresy preceded and gave rise to orthodoxy. Someone would come forth with a doctrine or tenet or whatever and the establishment would say, "well that's not correct, that's not what we believe." In the process they would be forced to formulate what they did believe, which often would then become the orthodox position. Seen in this light, heresy actually is a contributing factor, the motivation behind the church getting clarity on where it stood. Not sure what we would point to in the social realm as heresy today, but it seems possible that, whatever it is, it could play that same role of forcing us to clarify our own position. Randy Sent from my iPad On Aug 25, 2015, at 12:59 PM, Frank Knutson via OE < oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Enclosed: THE LIBERAL HERESY \ I think it was given by John Epps or maybe Gene Marshall???? <THE LIBERAL HERESY.docx> "What appears to be a breaking down of civilization may well be simply the breaking up of old forms by life itself." ~ Joyce Carol Oates <VIKING copy.jpeg> ❤ Frank On Aug 25, 2015, at 8:39 AM, Rod Rippel via Dialogue < dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: Fascists and dictators (and now just about everyone) have long understood that deviant behavior is encouraged by the fact that the media give it coverage. For example it used to be, "Don't write about suicide" because the mere mention of suicide might inspire someone to commit suicide in the next few days. Now we are flooded with all kinds of deviant inspiration. We live in a time of internet, Facebook, Twitter and adultery matchup-services. Like the phrase sometimes used in the RS-1 'Freedom Lecture,' "All Is Known," literally! The inundation of 'information' has either swamped us with stress and physical reaction or prompted a new level of defensive withdrawal from engaging. Scriptural wisdom and "Deciding" goes by the board! -----Original Message----- From: steve har via OE Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 6:06 AM To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net ; Order Ecumenical ICA-USA Subject: [Oe List ...] Breakfast News Conversations... Also called scripture/news conversations You remember them right? random bits of recalled news and then a piece of scriptural wisdom what to do about it? These days news like trying to "drink from a fire hose" My experience now living in the USfA now rather than Costa Rica and listening to USA media is curious. Feels to me like a case of news culture ADHD where nothing is connected to anything except by more and more crisis news events, more passionate & positional thinking more economic political and cultural and more and more "news journalists" driving to their bank on the stream of news. My friend Jack Gilles, if I quote him right, says ORID conversations no longer have a "D" now because it it is all interpretation, everyone has an opinion, everyone is a spectator stuck in the stands watching an unplayable game. Now in conversations is no "D" in ORID, no one knows how to Decide or what Do. "D" stands for Dumpster or "Don't decide" or "Despair" or just "Done". Joe Mathews had a paper, I believe, which he called the liberal heresy - aybe it was the conservative heresy or the reactionary heresy. He used some fancy theological terminology like "the immediacy of the eschaton" which I never did understand,exactly. Anyone remember this paper? Wondering where IS the scripture part, the wisdom part of the breakfast news conversation? The Christian Science Monitor says THEY are doing two things...As days and weeks pass, the media move on to new stories, often neglecting to tell the “what’s possible?” stories about how the people and communities affected by these tragedies are coping and what they’re learning. We hear these types of stories on one-year anniversaries, but they’re not an ongoing part of the media’s coverage the way that the “what happened?” stories are. A growing body of research is confirming what many have long suspected — that a steady diet of trauma and disaster triggers stress, fear and trauma in those consuming the stories. What if the news media covered stories of recovery and resilience as much as they cover stories about devastation and despair? http://ivoh.org/restorativenarrative/ Steve -- Steve _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.nethttp://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
Jack Gilles quoted earlier this tread said that the "D" in ORID has disappeared. "D" might just as well stand for disaster or maybe a "dumpster" for the seemingly un-ending list of issues, crisis's and interpretations in this world. Do you know where your "D's" are? It seems like the "I's" - the interpretations - are trying to say into existence some stance with which to engage. --- In the Imaginal Education course stance was called "attitude" Attitude was about having place to stand -"to be" in the world", to be a self with a past history and future to decide as a free human being. See this photo image: https://goo.gl/photos/sD8E79aA4D7K584R6. Bill Salmon and I had some fun trying to write a little about those old board images and try to bring them to life in the 21st Century. He's a pretty good writer, by the way -short and straight. Attitude was an essential part of actually having a place to stand in the -then education crisis of the times - and still have something to have some vitality to offer any learner 5th City Preschool student, or a Training Inc student...RS1 CS1 LENS, it didn't seem to matter. David Scott describes in an Archives oral history interview the same basic sense of things. He and his wife and the Fishels as new members of the Order met in a PSU and developed the Summer 65 for 50 young college students, pastors, and metro cadres. It was right after he and others left the Selma march and Martin Luther King...to drive to the West Side of Chicago. What was this stance or attitude stuff about? One sense of having a stance or attitude was you were actually "being in the game" of your own free will, not being "in the stands" spectating, opining, booing and cheering the play in someone Else's game. -- On a more personal note, now being in the game, being in Phase 4 and being not far from the end of my own game is different now. When I play, more often it is something like hide and seek with my young grand-daughter, Indi, she always wants to be in the play of the game. She is not interested in watching and spectating. Indi doesn't even want to keep score...she just wants a chance to play full-out and whole hearted. She is clever at finding! She knows how to help people find a place in the game...says, you go hide Grandpa, so I do! I'm the one learning to be in this game, she is the teacher, she keeps the play of the game. It is serious fun and new and altogether. Once in a while I bounce her on my knee and tell her stories of people hiding, then seeking then finding their way from my world. And I show her her iPad like this one of a friend of teachers and children learning new things: https://goo.gl/photos/9qTepcXCFs9FDzUx6. A friend that she knows goes there to help once in a while. --- Soon we're going to launch "Imaginal Inquiry" -a place to introduce people to Imaginal Educational materials available from the Archives Online. You can see the Twitter site here: https://twitter.com/*50newqs *and follow if you like. Steve
I don't know what it means that the Decisional step in ORID has disappeared. We are left with a decision if we reflect on and interpret the objective events of our lives and times. Is it that, in instructional or facilitating situations we don't push participants for a decision? My bilingual education mentor was Alma Flor Ada. She'd fled Castro's Cuba to live in Chile for a time. Her mentor was Paulo Freire, who had fled Brazil to live in Chile. She invited me to a seminar with him when she taught at Univ. of San Francisco in the 80's. What a privilege! The method she taught and used in her textbooks was very similar to ORID. She called the last step "Creative" rather than "Decisional". I like it. Whether Decision or Creativity, we're stuck with that last step. Blessings, Jann -----Original Message----- From: steve har via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: W. J. <synergi@yahoo.com> Cc: oe <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2015 11:02 am Subject: Re: [Dialogue] [Oe List ...] Breakfast News Conversations... Jack Gilles quoted earlier this tread said that the "D" in ORID has disappeared. "D" might just as well stand for disaster or maybe a "dumpster" for the seemingly un-ending list of issues, crisis's and interpretations in this world. Do you know where your "D's" are? It seems like the " I's" - the interpretations - are trying to say into existence some stance with which to engage. --- In the Imaginal Education course stance was called "attitude" Attitude was about having place to stand -"to be" in the world", to be a self with a past history and future to decide as a free human being. See this photo image: https://goo. gl/photos/sD8E79aA4D7K584R6. Bill Salmon and I had some fun trying to write a little about those old board images and try to bring them to life in the 21st Century. He's a pretty good writer, by the way -short and straight. Attitude was an essential part of actually having a place to stand in the -then education crisis of the times - and still have something to have some vitality to offer any learner 5th City Preschool student, or a Training Inc student...RS1 CS1 LENS, it didn't seem to matter. David Scott describes in an Archives oral history interview the same basic sense of things. He and his wife and the Fishels as new members of the Order met in a PSU and developed the Summer 65 for 50 young college students, pastors, and metro cadres. It was right after he and others left the Selma march and Martin Luther King...to drive to the West Side of Chicago. What was this stance or attitude stuff about? One sense of having a stance or attitude was you were actually "being in the game" of your own free will, not being "in the stands" spectating, opining, booing and cheering the play in someone Else's game. -- On a more personal note, now being in the game, being in Phase 4 and being not far from the end of my own game is different now. When I play, more often it is something like hide and seek with my young grand-daughter, Indi, she always wants to be in the play of the game. She is not interested in watching and spectating. Indi doesn't even want to keep score...she just wants a chance to play full-out and whole hearted. She is clever at finding! She knows how to help people find a place in the game...says, you go hide Grandpa, so I do! I'm the one learning to be in this game, she is the teacher, she keeps the play of the game. It is serious fun and new and altogether. Once in a while I bounce her on my knee and tell her stories of people hiding, then seeking then finding their way from my world. And I show her her iPad like this one of a friend of teachers and children learning new things: https://goo. gl/photos/9qTepcXCFs9FDzUx6. A friend that she knows goes there to help once in a while. --- Soon we're going to launch " Imaginal Inquiry" -a place to introduce people to Imaginal Educational materials available from the Archives Online. You can see the Twitter site here: https://twitter.com/ 50newqs and follow if you like. Steve _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
In Catholic social teaching they have a 3-step process--see, decide, act. Albert Outler, my professor of church history at Perkins had his version--what, so what, and now what. All obviously are strikingly similar enough to ORID that one may be led to think there may be some substance there! 😳 Randy Sent from my iPad
On Aug 31, 2015, at 5:06 PM, via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
I don't know what it means that the Decisional step in ORID has disappeared. We are left with a decision if we reflect on and interpret the objective events of our lives and times. Is it that, in instructional or facilitating situations we don't push participants for a decision?
My bilingual education mentor was Alma Flor Ada. She'd fled Castro's Cuba to live in Chile for a time. Her mentor was Paulo Freire, who had fled Brazil to live in Chile. She invited me to a seminar with him when she taught at Univ. of San Francisco in the 80's. What a privilege!
The method she taught and used in her textbooks was very similar to ORID. She called the last step "Creative" rather than "Decisional". I like it. Whether Decision or Creativity, we're stuck with that last step.
Blessings, Jann
-----Original Message----- From: steve har via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: W. J. <synergi@yahoo.com> Cc: oe <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2015 11:02 am Subject: Re: [Dialogue] [Oe List ...] Breakfast News Conversations...
Jack Gilles quoted earlier this tread said that the "D" in ORID has disappeared.
"D" might just as well stand for disaster or maybe a "dumpster" for the seemingly un-ending list of issues, crisis's and interpretations in this world. Do you know where your "D's" are?
It seems like the " I's" - the interpretations - are trying to say into existence some stance with which to engage.
--- In the Imaginal Education course stance was called "attitude"
Attitude was about having place to stand -"to be" in the world", to be a self with a past history and future to decide as a free human being. See this photo image: https://goo. gl/photos/sD8E79aA4D7K584R6.
Bill Salmon and I had some fun trying to write a little about those old board images and try to bring them to life in the 21st Century. He's a pretty good writer, by the way -short and straight.
Attitude was an essential part of actually having a place to stand in the -then education crisis of the times - and still have something to have some vitality to offer any learner 5th City Preschool student, or a Training Inc student...RS1 CS1 LENS, it didn't seem to matter.
David Scott describes in an Archives oral history interview the same basic sense of things.
He and his wife and the Fishels as new members of the Order met in a PSU and developed the Summer 65 for 50 young college students, pastors, and metro cadres. It was right after he and others left the Selma march and Martin Luther King...to drive to the West Side of Chicago.
What was this stance or attitude stuff about? One sense of having a stance or attitude was you were actually "being in the game" of your own free will, not being "in the stands" spectating, opining, booing and cheering the play in someone Else's game.
-- On a more personal note, now being in the game, being in Phase 4 and being not far from the end of my own game is different now.
When I play, more often it is something like hide and seek with my young grand-daughter, Indi, she always wants to be in the play of the game. She is not interested in watching and spectating.
Indi doesn't even want to keep score...she just wants a chance to play full-out and whole hearted. She is clever at finding! She knows how to help people find a place in the game...says, you go hide Grandpa, so I do!
I'm the one learning to be in this game, she is the teacher, she keeps the play of the game. It is serious fun and new and altogether.
Once in a while I bounce her on my knee and tell her stories of people hiding, then seeking then finding their way from my world. And I show her her iPad like this one of a friend of teachers and children learning new things: https://goo. gl/photos/9qTepcXCFs9FDzUx6. A friend that she knows goes there to help once in a while.
--- Soon we're going to launch " Imaginal Inquiry" -a place to introduce people to Imaginal Educational materials available from the Archives Online. You can see the Twitter site here: https://twitter.com/ 50newqs and follow if you like.
Steve
_______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
Well, it is a natural process. Yes Jan, we always are left with a decision, but when D is left of it is easy to ignore making a self-conscious one. Since Steve Harrington referred to me, my comment was really was an observation of a situation I was watching in Chicago. I was aware how easy it was to “Discard” as a response to something that had meaning. I knew at the time that seeing this situation was a “message” to me and my response (not necessarily acting right there on it) had to be taken into my interior. That is what I meant that people love to talk about problems, but never see they have some internal response that needs to be authentic. Jack
On Aug 31, 2015, at 5:19 PM, Randy Williams via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
In Catholic social teaching they have a 3-step process--see, decide, act. Albert Outler, my professor of church history at Perkins had his version--what, so what, and now what. All obviously are strikingly similar enough to ORID that one may be led to think there may be some substance there! 😳 Randy
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 31, 2015, at 5:06 PM, via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
I don't know what it means that the Decisional step in ORID has disappeared. We are left with a decision if we reflect on and interpret the objective events of our lives and times. Is it that, in instructional or facilitating situations we don't push participants for a decision?
My bilingual education mentor was Alma Flor Ada. She'd fled Castro's Cuba to live in Chile for a time. Her mentor was Paulo Freire, who had fled Brazil to live in Chile. She invited me to a seminar with him when she taught at Univ. of San Francisco in the 80's. What a privilege!
The method she taught and used in her textbooks was very similar to ORID. She called the last step "Creative" rather than "Decisional". I like it. Whether Decision or Creativity, we're stuck with that last step.
Blessings, Jann
-----Original Message----- From: steve har via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>> To: W. J. <synergi@yahoo.com <mailto:synergi@yahoo.com>> Cc: oe <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>>; dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>> Sent: Mon, Aug 31, 2015 11:02 am Subject: Re: [Dialogue] [Oe List ...] Breakfast News Conversations...
Jack Gilles quoted earlier this tread said that the "D" in ORID has disappeared.
"D" might just as well stand for disaster or maybe a "dumpster" for the seemingly un-ending list of issues, crisis's and interpretations in this world. Do you know where your "D's" are?
It seems like the " I's" - the interpretations - are trying to say into existence some stance with which to engage.
--- In the Imaginal Education course stance was called "attitude"
Attitude was about having place to stand -"to be" in the world", to be a self with a past history and future to decide as a free human being. See this photo image: https://goo <https://goo/>. gl/photos/sD8E79aA4D7K584R6.
Bill Salmon and I had some fun trying to write a little about those old board images and try to bring them to life in the 21st Century. He's a pretty good writer, by the way -short and straight.
Attitude was an essential part of actually having a place to stand in the -then education crisis of the times - and still have something to have some vitality to offer any learner 5th City Preschool student, or a Training Inc student...RS1 CS1 LENS, it didn't seem to matter.
David Scott describes in an Archives oral history interview the same basic sense of things.
He and his wife and the Fishels as new members of the Order met in a PSU and developed the Summer 65 for 50 young college students, pastors, and metro cadres. It was right after he and others left the Selma march and Martin Luther King...to drive to the West Side of Chicago.
What was this stance or attitude stuff about? One sense of having a stance or attitude was you were actually "being in the game" of your own free will, not being "in the stands" spectating, opining, booing and cheering the play in someone Else's game.
-- On a more personal note, now being in the game, being in Phase 4 and being not far from the end of my own game is different now.
When I play, more often it is something like hide and seek with my young grand-daughter, Indi, she always wants to be in the play of the game. She is not interested in watching and spectating.
Indi doesn't even want to keep score...she just wants a chance to play full-out and whole hearted. She is clever at finding! She knows how to help people find a place in the game...says, you go hide Grandpa, so I do!
I'm the one learning to be in this game, she is the teacher, she keeps the play of the game. It is serious fun and new and altogether.
Once in a while I bounce her on my knee and tell her stories of people hiding, then seeking then finding their way from my world. And I show her her iPad like this one of a friend of teachers and children learning new things: https://goo <https://goo/>. gl/photos/9qTepcXCFs9FDzUx6. A friend that she knows goes there to help once in a while.
--- Soon we're going to launch " Imaginal Inquiry" -a place to introduce people to Imaginal Educational materials available from the Archives Online. You can see the Twitter site here: https://twitter.com/ <https://twitter.com/> 50newqs and follow if you like.
Steve
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