Re: [Dialogue] [Oe List ...] Fwd: Re: THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT
Zoe said: "We began the work in the Order of imagining - and practicing - a wholly new liturgy. Is that where to begin? This is not exciting or immediately rewarding work - if ever - and it is not transformational in the first instance." Wow, do you recall that? When I arrived in 1967 things seemed in place re: Daily Office. We performed a Daily Office at the memorial for Betty Pesek -- perhaps the last one?? Chardin wrote a piece called "The Mass on the World" that caught MY attention. Not sure if attachments go through . . . What would it be like to do this? Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353623-363-3277jfwiegel@yahoo.comwww.partnersinparticipation.com Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona More info on: ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation Register on line / see the ToP National ScheduleAICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003 From: zbarley via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2016 9:19 AM Subject: [Oe List ...] Fwd: Re: THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Zoe Barley <zbarley@earthlink.net> Date: 2016/10/03 12:41 PM (GMT-07:00) To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Cc: zbarley@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT <!--#yiv5222209950 DIV {margin:0px;}-->Yes, I suspect we are all still at it - according to age, ability, and conditions. And such work must go on, even when it is ephemeral. But I'm concerned about Spong's challenge. He would yet attempt to renew the church. We began the work in the Order of imagining - and practicing - a wholly new liturgy. Is that where to begin? This is not exciting or immediately rewarding work - if ever - and it is not transformational in the first instance. I do not know who or what group is able to respond. Perhaps the Order is too vested in the community work to now turn back to the church. But I can't see that any such work can be sustained without the Word in some form. Zoe -----Original Message----- From: James Wiegel Sent: Oct 3, 2016 9:03 AM To: zbarley Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT How does the beginning of Ecclesiastes go? Emptiness Emptiness says the speaker, emptiness, all is empty. What does man gain from his labor?? And, even that "internal strength and depth of belief to create the renewed dynamic in society" seemed to slip away . . . Bill and Carol Schlessinger are still at it with Projecto Vida in El Paso . . . Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353623-363-3277jfwiegel@yahoo.comwww.partnersinparticipation.com Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona More info on: ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation Register on line / see the ToP National ScheduleAICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003 From: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net> To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Cc: "zbarley@earthlink.net" <zbarley@earthlink.net> Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 6:29 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT We were certainly aware, first as priors in Cleveland, then as Galaxy pastors in Denver, that the church renewal plan wasn't working. And with Spong it's no sure thing, despite the ages of existence, that the church wants, realizes the urgency of, renewal today. Yet I have seen the community renewal projects I have worked on all run their course and fade away. The Order had the internal strength and depth of belief to create the renewed dynamic in society that was once called church. I know of no other entity who can do it. Zoe Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Date: 2016/10/02 9:40 PM (GMT-07:00) To: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Well, that is a good and interesting question, Zoe. And probably many people might have answers . . Here are a couple possible ones that come to my mind. The Fifth City Project and, later human development projects and town meetings had a lot more visceral excitement for us than the slow work of congregational renewal. This might have been more particularly true for us younger, non clergy folks who came right after you all . . . The Local Church Experiment with Galaxies and all did not produce exciting enough results to be sustained, and we never got sufficiently strong and widespread support from the denominational heirarchies to keep it going. It may well also have been the case that the "risks" that the Galaxy leadership and clergy families in the order and movement sort of derailed their career prospects in Ecclesiastical circles. God chose fundamentalism and the charismatic approach over existential theology. I was struck, travelling cross country several years ago, on 2 lane highways, that it seems as though only the conservative churches have had heart and passion to root themselves in many local places. Music and broadcast christianity as well. With our focus on "globality", staying within the framework of Historical Christianity became increasingly relative as we engaged in countries not dominantly Christian In looking at old documents, like the Declaration of the Spirit Movement, I can see one could say that the primary concern was to address the "cultural revolution of the 20th century", ("renewal of the church FOR THE SAKE OF THE WORLD") Even the contextual documents on the local church describe it as an anthropological phenomenon and not a Christian reality
From a practical (and economic) perspective, at some point, participation in RS-1 peaked and we needed something else to keep the "movement" moving. While we talked of ourselves as an "Order" -- Religious Order, Historical Order, Global Order, seems we depended a lot on keeping momentum going. Sustainability and slowness were less important than Expenditure and transformation. What is your take on it?Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353623-363-3277jfwiegel@yahoo.comwww.partnersinparticipation.com Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona More info on: ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation Register on line / see the ToP National ScheduleAICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003
From: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net> To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com>; Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2016 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Teilhard still speaks to a broad audience. A documentary is currently being produced about his life and work and continuing influence (see below). It will be shown on PBS in 2017, if not before. Teilhard Project www.teilhardproject.com Continue reading “Teilhard Documentary Leaps Forward” » Teilhard Project to film in Teilhard’s birthplace. Posted on July 7, 2016 by frostffp. How to Donate Obituary of Harold Morowitz Resources Blog Scholars Many congregations are using resources, built on the foundation of his work, that are weaving together the cosmic perspective, scientific realities and theological grounding that probably go beyond Spong. Groups come alive when they experience this--sometimes a church group, sometimes other groups, once in a while a congregation. . In many respects, "renewal" is happening in churches that have strong conscious leadership that is shepherding congregations into their local communities and larger world (like the LCX). There are other groups which are the church dynamic, operating from a transparent WORD, that are bringing resurgence in other ways. Carleton and I were part of the Rochester LCX for 6 years until we went into the Order. When we returned to the local church as pastors, we didn't pull out the LCX Manual, but it was transparently and intentionally present as were the dynamics of contextual re-education, structural reformulation and spiritual re-motivation. Post-"retirement", we continue to be part of a congregation (not as pastors), that seeks to be on the edge re partnering with others to serve the larger world so that the Earth Community and all the diversity and complexity that inhabit it, might thrive cooperatively and sustainably. Ellie elliestock@aol.com -----Original Message----- From: James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net>; oe <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@wedgeblade.net> Sent: Tue, Oct 4, 2016 2:48 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Fwd: Re: THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Zoe said: "We began the work in the Order of imagining - and practicing - a wholly new liturgy. Is that where to begin? This is not exciting or immediately rewarding work - if ever - and it is not transformational in the first instance." Wow, do you recall that? When I arrived in 1967 things seemed in place re: Daily Office. We performed a Daily Office at the memorial for Betty Pesek -- perhaps the last one?? Chardin wrote a piece called "The Mass on the World" that caught MY attention. Not sure if attachments go through . . . What would it be like to do this? Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona More info on: ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003 From: zbarley via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2016 9:19 AM Subject: [Oe List ...] Fwd: Re: THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Zoe Barley <zbarley@earthlink.net> Date: 2016/10/03 12:41 PM (GMT-07:00) To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Cc: zbarley@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Yes, I suspect we are all still at it - according to age, ability, and conditions. And such work must go on, even when it is ephemeral. But I'm concerned about Spong's challenge. He would yet attempt to renew the church. We began the work in the Order of imagining - and practicing - a wholly new liturgy. Is that where to begin? This is not exciting or immediately rewarding work - if ever - and it is not transformational in the first instance. I do not know who or what group is able to respond. Perhaps the Order is too vested in the community work to now turn back to the church. But I can't see that any such work can be sustained without the Word in some form. Zoe -----Original Message----- From: James Wiegel Sent: Oct 3, 2016 9:03 AM To: zbarley Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT How does the beginning of Ecclesiastes go? Emptiness Emptiness says the speaker, emptiness, all is empty. What does man gain from his labor?? And, even that "internal strength and depth of belief to create the renewed dynamic in society" seemed to slip away . . . Bill and Carol Schlessinger are still at it with Projecto Vida in El Paso . . . Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona More info on: ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003 From: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net> To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Cc: "zbarley@earthlink.net" <zbarley@earthlink.net> Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 6:29 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT We were certainly aware, first as priors in Cleveland, then as Galaxy pastors in Denver, that the church renewal plan wasn't working. And with Spong it's no sure thing, despite the ages of existence, that the church wants, realizes the urgency of, renewal today. Yet I have seen the community renewal projects I have worked on all run their course and fade away. The Order had the internal strength and depth of belief to create the renewed dynamic in society that was once called church. I know of no other entity who can do it. Zoe Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Date: 2016/10/02 9:40 PM (GMT-07:00) To: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Well, that is a good and interesting question, Zoe. And probably many people might have answers . . Here are a couple possible ones that come to my mind. The Fifth City Project and, later human development projects and town meetings had a lot more visceral excitement for us than the slow work of congregational renewal. This might have been more particularly true for us younger, non clergy folks who came right after you all . . . The Local Church Experiment with Galaxies and all did not produce exciting enough results to be sustained, and we never got sufficiently strong and widespread support from the denominational heirarchies to keep it going. It may well also have been the case that the "risks" that the Galaxy leadership and clergy families in the order and movement sort of derailed their career prospects in Ecclesiastical circles. God chose fundamentalism and the charismatic approach over existential theology. I was struck, travelling cross country several years ago, on 2 lane highways, that it seems as though only the conservative churches have had heart and passion to root themselves in many local places. Music and broadcast christianity as well. With our focus on "globality", staying within the framework of Historical Christianity became increasingly relative as we engaged in countries not dominantly Christian In looking at old documents, like the Declaration of the Spirit Movement, I can see one could say that the primary concern was to address the "cultural revolution of the 20th century", ("renewal of the church FOR THE SAKE OF THE WORLD") Even the contextual documents on the local church describe it as an anthropological phenomenon and not a Christian reality
From a practical (and economic) perspective, at some point, participation in RS-1 peaked and we needed something else to keep the "movement" moving. While we talked of ourselves as an "Order" -- Religious Order, Historical Order, Global Order, seems we depended a lot on keeping momentum going. Sustainability and slowness were less important than Expenditure and transformation.
What is your take on it? Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona More info on: ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003 From: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net> To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com>; Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2016 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
Thank you profoundly, Ellie. Very inspiring. Jann McGuire -----Original Message----- From: Ellie Stock via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: jfwiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com>; oe <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net>; dialogue <dialogue@wedgeblade.net> Sent: Tue, Oct 4, 2016 2:13 pm Subject: Re: [Dialogue] [Oe List ...] Fwd: Re: THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Teilhard still speaks to a broad audience. A documentary is currently being produced about his life and work and continuing influence (see below). It will be shown on PBS in 2017, if not before. Teilhard Project www.teilhardproject.com Continue reading “Teilhard Documentary Leaps Forward” » Teilhard Project to film in Teilhard’s birthplace. Posted on July 7, 2016 by frostffp. How to Donate Obituary of Harold Morowitz Resources Blog Scholars Many congregations are using resources, built on the foundation of his work, that are weaving together the cosmic perspective, scientific realities and theological grounding that probably go beyond Spong. Groups come alive when they experience this--sometimes a church group, sometimes other groups, once in a while a congregation. . In many respects, "renewal" is happening in churches that have strong conscious leadership that is shepherding congregations into their local communities and larger world (like the LCX). There are other groups which are the church dynamic, operating from a transparent WORD, that are bringing resurgence in other ways. Carleton and I were part of the Rochester LCX for 6 years until we went into the Order. When we returned to the local church as pastors, we didn't pull out the LCX Manual, but it was transparently and intentionally present as were the dynamics of contextual re-education, structural reformulation and spiritual re-motivation. Post-"retirement", we continue to be part of a congregation (not as pastors), that seeks to be on the edge re partnering with others to serve the larger world so that the Earth Community and all the diversity and complexity that inhabit it, might thrive cooperatively and sustainably. Ellie elliestock@aol.com -----Original Message----- From: James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net>; oe <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@wedgeblade.net> Sent: Tue, Oct 4, 2016 2:48 pm Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Fwd: Re: THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Zoe said: "We began the work in the Order of imagining - and practicing - a wholly new liturgy. Is that where to begin? This is not exciting or immediately rewarding work - if ever - and it is not transformational in the first instance." Wow, do you recall that? When I arrived in 1967 things seemed in place re: Daily Office. We performed a Daily Office at the memorial for Betty Pesek -- perhaps the last one?? Chardin wrote a piece called "The Mass on the World" that caught MY attention. Not sure if attachments go through . . . What would it be like to do this? Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona More info on: ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003 From: zbarley via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2016 9:19 AM Subject: [Oe List ...] Fwd: Re: THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Zoe Barley <zbarley@earthlink.net> Date: 2016/10/03 12:41 PM (GMT-07:00) To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Cc: zbarley@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Yes, I suspect we are all still at it - according to age, ability, and conditions. And such work must go on, even when it is ephemeral. But I'm concerned about Spong's challenge. He would yet attempt to renew the church. We began the work in the Order of imagining - and practicing - a wholly new liturgy. Is that where to begin? This is not exciting or immediately rewarding work - if ever - and it is not transformational in the first instance. I do not know who or what group is able to respond. Perhaps the Order is too vested in the community work to now turn back to the church. But I can't see that any such work can be sustained without the Word in some form. Zoe -----Original Message----- From: James Wiegel Sent: Oct 3, 2016 9:03 AM To: zbarley Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT How does the beginning of Ecclesiastes go? Emptiness Emptiness says the speaker, emptiness, all is empty. What does man gain from his labor?? And, even that "internal strength and depth of belief to create the renewed dynamic in society" seemed to slip away . . . Bill and Carol Schlessinger are still at it with Projecto Vida in El Paso . . . Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona More info on: ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003 From: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net> To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Cc: "zbarley@earthlink.net" <zbarley@earthlink.net> Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 6:29 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT We were certainly aware, first as priors in Cleveland, then as Galaxy pastors in Denver, that the church renewal plan wasn't working. And with Spong it's no sure thing, despite the ages of existence, that the church wants, realizes the urgency of, renewal today. Yet I have seen the community renewal projects I have worked on all run their course and fade away. The Order had the internal strength and depth of belief to create the renewed dynamic in society that was once called church. I know of no other entity who can do it. Zoe Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Date: 2016/10/02 9:40 PM (GMT-07:00) To: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Well, that is a good and interesting question, Zoe. And probably many people might have answers . . Here are a couple possible ones that come to my mind. The Fifth City Project and, later human development projects and town meetings had a lot more visceral excitement for us than the slow work of congregational renewal. This might have been more particularly true for us younger, non clergy folks who came right after you all . . . The Local Church Experiment with Galaxies and all did not produce exciting enough results to be sustained, and we never got sufficiently strong and widespread support from the denominational heirarchies to keep it going. It may well also have been the case that the "risks" that the Galaxy leadership and clergy families in the order and movement sort of derailed their career prospects in Ecclesiastical circles. God chose fundamentalism and the charismatic approach over existential theology. I was struck, travelling cross country several years ago, on 2 lane highways, that it seems as though only the conservative churches have had heart and passion to root themselves in many local places. Music and broadcast christianity as well. With our focus on "globality", staying within the framework of Historical Christianity became increasingly relative as we engaged in countries not dominantly Christian In looking at old documents, like the Declaration of the Spirit Movement, I can see one could say that the primary concern was to address the "cultural revolution of the 20th century", ("renewal of the church FOR THE SAKE OF THE WORLD") Even the contextual documents on the local church describe it as an anthropological phenomenon and not a Christian reality
From a practical (and economic) perspective, at some point, participation in RS-1 peaked and we needed something else to keep the "movement" moving. While we talked of ourselves as an "Order" -- Religious Order, Historical Order, Global Order, seems we depended a lot on keeping momentum going. Sustainability and slowness were less important than Expenditure and transformation.
What is your take on it? Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona More info on: ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003 From: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net> To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com>; Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2016 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
Dear Jim and Colleagues, I thank whoever put Betty's memorial on you tube. I participated as I watched it. Very sweet and poignant. Teilhard's "Mass on the World" is interesting. (I was able to download it.) The book is called The Heart of Matter but the mass only mentions Fire. We need Earth, Air and Water. Not just Spirit, but Body, Mind and Emotions. Surely we can write a 21st century liturgy that honors the past and acknowledges where we are. It could even be "exciting, immediately rewarding and even transformational." Good News! All is Good! Good News! All is Received! Good News! All is Approved! All is Possible! Love and blessings, Jann McGuire -----Original Message----- From: James Wiegel via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net>; oe <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@wedgeblade.net> Sent: Tue, Oct 4, 2016 12:54 pm Subject: Re: [Dialogue] [Oe List ...] Fwd: Re: THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Zoe said: "We began the work in the Order of imagining - and practicing - a wholly new liturgy. Is that where to begin? This is not exciting or immediately rewarding work - if ever - and it is not transformational in the first instance." Wow, do you recall that? When I arrived in 1967 things seemed in place re: Daily Office. We performed a Daily Office at the memorial for Betty Pesek -- perhaps the last one?? Chardin wrote a piece called "The Mass on the World" that caught MY attention. Not sure if attachments go through . . . What would it be like to do this? Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona More info on: ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003 From: zbarley via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2016 9:19 AM Subject: [Oe List ...] Fwd: Re: THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: Zoe Barley <zbarley@earthlink.net> Date: 2016/10/03 12:41 PM (GMT-07:00) To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Cc: zbarley@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Yes, I suspect we are all still at it - according to age, ability, and conditions. And such work must go on, even when it is ephemeral. But I'm concerned about Spong's challenge. He would yet attempt to renew the church. We began the work in the Order of imagining - and practicing - a wholly new liturgy. Is that where to begin? This is not exciting or immediately rewarding work - if ever - and it is not transformational in the first instance. I do not know who or what group is able to respond. Perhaps the Order is too vested in the community work to now turn back to the church. But I can't see that any such work can be sustained without the Word in some form. Zoe -----Original Message----- From: James Wiegel Sent: Oct 3, 2016 9:03 AM To: zbarley Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT How does the beginning of Ecclesiastes go? Emptiness Emptiness says the speaker, emptiness, all is empty. What does man gain from his labor?? And, even that "internal strength and depth of belief to create the renewed dynamic in society" seemed to slip away . . . Bill and Carol Schlessinger are still at it with Projecto Vida in El Paso . . . Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona More info on: ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003 From: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net> To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Cc: "zbarley@earthlink.net" <zbarley@earthlink.net> Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 6:29 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT We were certainly aware, first as priors in Cleveland, then as Galaxy pastors in Denver, that the church renewal plan wasn't working. And with Spong it's no sure thing, despite the ages of existence, that the church wants, realizes the urgency of, renewal today. Yet I have seen the community renewal projects I have worked on all run their course and fade away. The Order had the internal strength and depth of belief to create the renewed dynamic in society that was once called church. I know of no other entity who can do it. Zoe Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone -------- Original message -------- From: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Date: 2016/10/02 9:40 PM (GMT-07:00) To: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT Well, that is a good and interesting question, Zoe. And probably many people might have answers . . Here are a couple possible ones that come to my mind. The Fifth City Project and, later human development projects and town meetings had a lot more visceral excitement for us than the slow work of congregational renewal. This might have been more particularly true for us younger, non clergy folks who came right after you all . . . The Local Church Experiment with Galaxies and all did not produce exciting enough results to be sustained, and we never got sufficiently strong and widespread support from the denominational heirarchies to keep it going. It may well also have been the case that the "risks" that the Galaxy leadership and clergy families in the order and movement sort of derailed their career prospects in Ecclesiastical circles. God chose fundamentalism and the charismatic approach over existential theology. I was struck, travelling cross country several years ago, on 2 lane highways, that it seems as though only the conservative churches have had heart and passion to root themselves in many local places. Music and broadcast christianity as well. With our focus on "globality", staying within the framework of Historical Christianity became increasingly relative as we engaged in countries not dominantly Christian In looking at old documents, like the Declaration of the Spirit Movement, I can see one could say that the primary concern was to address the "cultural revolution of the 20th century", ("renewal of the church FOR THE SAKE OF THE WORLD") Even the contextual documents on the local church describe it as an anthropological phenomenon and not a Christian reality
From a practical (and economic) perspective, at some point, participation in RS-1 peaked and we needed something else to keep the "movement" moving. While we talked of ourselves as an "Order" -- Religious Order, Historical Order, Global Order, seems we depended a lot on keeping momentum going. Sustainability and slowness were less important than Expenditure and transformation.
What is your take on it? Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona More info on: ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003 From: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net> To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com>; Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2016 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
Most of us in our community came out of the church, either clergy or laity. I expect we sensed the church had a captivating story and symbols that were powerful enough to put wheels under it. We also knew of a time in the history of the church when it had a significant external mission, primarily through the orders. We sensed the spirit moving in some new direction with all the 1960s revolutions. Maybe we thought that would be enough to instill again a sense of mission within the historical church. But in my judgment it didn't happen, and perhaps as a way of steeling itself against the changes being wrought by the revolutions of the time toward secularism, rather than participating in them, the church doubled down on institutionalism, and that persists to this day, with noteworthy but isolated exceptions. I'm not sure human intentionality can start movements; they just seem to spring up and emerge when the spirit moves, and the role of intentional, missional human beings is keep their ears to the ground and, as Buber would say, when they see it, go participate in what is wanting to emerge. It could be that the spirit is moving anew today through the environmental movement, perhaps as Paul Hawken describes it in Blessed Unrest. For me, I have no attachment to today's institutional forms of the church, although I am grateful for the work and witness of Pope Francis and his integral ecology, and for some who seem to have inspired him, like Leonardo Boff. There's no reason why religions of any sort could not participate in whatever the emerging movement is, but I don't look for the movement to have a religious identity, or for that matter, any sort of ideological underpinnings. Randy Sent from my iPad
On Oct 4, 2016, at 2:45 PM, James Wiegel via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
Zoe said: "We began the work in the Order of imagining - and practicing - a wholly new liturgy. Is that where to begin? This is not exciting or immediately rewarding work - if ever - and it is not transformational in the first instance."
Wow, do you recall that? When I arrived in 1967 things seemed in place re: Daily Office. We performed a Daily Office at the memorial for Betty Pesek -- perhaps the last one??
Chardin wrote a piece called "The Mass on the World" that caught MY attention. Not sure if attachments go through . . .
What would it be like to do this?
Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy
401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com
Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona
More info on:
ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation
Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses
The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003
From: zbarley via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> To: oe@lists.wedgeblade.net Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2016 9:19 AM Subject: [Oe List ...] Fwd: Re: THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message -------- From: Zoe Barley <zbarley@earthlink.net> Date: 2016/10/03 12:41 PM (GMT-07:00) To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Cc: zbarley@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT
Yes, I suspect we are all still at it - according to age, ability, and conditions. And such work must go on, even when it is ephemeral.
But I'm concerned about Spong's challenge. He would yet attempt to renew the church. We began the work in the Order of imagining - and practicing - a wholly new liturgy. Is that where to begin? This is not exciting or immediately rewarding work - if ever - and it is not transformational in the first instance. I do not know who or what group is able to respond. Perhaps the Order is too vested in the community work to now turn back to the church. But I can't see that any such work can be sustained without the Word in some form.
Zoe
-----Original Message----- From: James Wiegel Sent: Oct 3, 2016 9:03 AM To: zbarley Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT
How does the beginning of Ecclesiastes go? Emptiness Emptiness says the speaker, emptiness, all is empty. What does man gain from his labor??
And, even that "internal strength and depth of belief to create the renewed dynamic in society" seemed to slip away . . . Bill and Carol Schlessinger are still at it with Projecto Vida in El Paso . . .
Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy
401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com
Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona
More info on:
ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation
Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses
The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003
From: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net> To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Cc: "zbarley@earthlink.net" <zbarley@earthlink.net> Sent: Monday, October 3, 2016 6:29 AM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT
We were certainly aware, first as priors in Cleveland, then as Galaxy pastors in Denver, that the church renewal plan wasn't working. And with Spong it's no sure thing, despite the ages of existence, that the church wants, realizes the urgency of, renewal today. Yet I have seen the community renewal projects I have worked on all run their course and fade away. The Order had the internal strength and depth of belief to create the renewed dynamic in society that was once called church. I know of no other entity who can do it.
Zoe
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message -------- From: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Date: 2016/10/02 9:40 PM (GMT-07:00) To: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT
Well, that is a good and interesting question, Zoe. And probably many people might have answers . .
Here are a couple possible ones that come to my mind.
The Fifth City Project and, later human development projects and town meetings had a lot more visceral excitement for us than the slow work of congregational renewal. This might have been more particularly true for us younger, non clergy folks who came right after you all . . .
The Local Church Experiment with Galaxies and all did not produce exciting enough results to be sustained, and we never got sufficiently strong and widespread support from the denominational heirarchies to keep it going. It may well also have been the case that the "risks" that the Galaxy leadership and clergy families in the order and movement sort of derailed their career prospects in Ecclesiastical circles.
God chose fundamentalism and the charismatic approach over existential theology. I was struck, travelling cross country several years ago, on 2 lane highways, that it seems as though only the conservative churches have had heart and passion to root themselves in many local places. Music and broadcast christianity as well.
With our focus on "globality", staying within the framework of Historical Christianity became increasingly relative as we engaged in countries not dominantly Christian
In looking at old documents, like the Declaration of the Spirit Movement, I can see one could say that the primary concern was to address the "cultural revolution of the 20th century", ("renewal of the church FOR THE SAKE OF THE WORLD")
Even the contextual documents on the local church describe it as an anthropological phenomenon and not a Christian reality
From a practical (and economic) perspective, at some point, participation in RS-1 peaked and we needed something else to keep the "movement" moving. While we talked of ourselves as an "Order" -- Religious Order, Historical Order, Global Order, seems we depended a lot on keeping momentum going. Sustainability and slowness were less important than Expenditure and transformation.
What is your take on it? Jim Wiegel “If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy
401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel@yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com
Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona
More info on:
ToP® Facilitation Methods ToP® Strategic Planning: Mastering the Technology of Participation
Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses
The AZ ToP® Community of Practice meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, 648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003
From: zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net> To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com>; Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Sunday, October 2, 2016 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT
_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
<Mass on the World.pdf> _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
participants (4)
-
Ellie Stock via Dialogue -
James Wiegel via Dialogue
-
Randy Williams via Dialogue
-
via Dialogue