Here is a direct quote from the opening passage: "Man is spirit. But what is spirit? Spirit is the self. But what is the self? The self is a relation which relates itself to its own self, or it is that in the relation which accounts for it that the relation relates itself to its own self; the self is not the relation but consists in the fact that the relation relates itself to its own self. Man is a synthesis of the infinite and the finite, of the temporal and the eternal, of freedom and necessity, in short it is a synthesis. A synthesis is a relation between two factors. So regarded, man is not yet a self." Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg> ________________________________ From: Doug and Pat Druckenmiller <dpat23@msn.com> Sent: Friday, August 2, 2024 8:57:51 PM To: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Order Community <oe@wedgeblade.net> Cc: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Question about Kierkegaard As i recall, this formulation is a one sentence summary of Kierkegard's "The Sickness Unto Death." The forms of despair are all ways of not willing to be the self that we fundamentally are. The self is a fundamental relationship between the finite and the eternal and we are conscious of this fundamental relationship, thus "the self is a relation which relates itself to itself". The forms of despair are all the ways we refuse to be this fundamental relation as detailed in the "forms of despair", The sickness unto death - our unwillingness to be the given self that we fundamentally are. By willing to be this fundamental self we ground our self transparently in the power that has created this unique self. The Tillich paper explores the fundamental dynamics of this despair (sin) and the willingness to be the created self which grounds us transparently in the power that posits us (Grace.) Dou Druckenmiller. Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg> ________________________________ From: Dialogue <dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> on behalf of James Wiegel via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2024 5:35:30 PM To: Colleague Dialogue Listserve <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Order Community <oe@wedgeblade.net> Cc: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Subject: [Dialogue] Question about Kierkegaard I keep remembering "The self is a relation; that relates itself to itself; and in willing to be that relation; grounds itself transparently in the power that posits it." And I remember the diagram with the lines and boxes and curvy arrows. Where did that come from (which book or paper?). What was SK pointing to? What were we pointing to? I am afeared that I am misusing it. Thanks. Jim Wiegel “We are all time travelers journeying into the future. But let us make that future a place we want to visit. “ Stephen Hawking

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"Man is spirit. But what is spirit? Spirit is the self. But what is the self? The self is a relation which relates itself to its own self, or it is that in the relation which accounts for it that the relation relates itself to its own self; the self is not the relation but consists in the fact that the relation relates itself to its own self. Man is a synthesis of the infinite and the finite, of the temporal and the eternal, of freedom and necessity, in short it is a synthesis. A synthesis is a relation between two factors. So regarded, man is not yet a self."

For me this was really the only thing I really remembered from the religious studies taught by JWM at SMU in 1960’s. It awakened my consciousness and affirmed my awareness of myself as a spirit being, in a physical body, who was struggling to emerge and become who I really was. Later, it summed up the Order Ecumenical understanding. Then it catalyzed, integrated, and synthesized who we wanted to become and brought harmony to the mission as ICA. Decades later it still remains as the best way to describe "who I am" as I daily “act out’ this understanding. It keeps me true to what “my unique present day life” is all about and how it relates to “God as the Ultimate, Infinite, All-Loving/All-Power/All-Wisdom Mysterious Beingness" in each moment of my participation with all my fellow human beings on this planet of ours. We are all really present day "spirit beings" in the process of becoming who we transparently truly are. I am confident that our research and training as the Order or as ICA or ToP accelerated the process of making planet earth a better place for all to live wherever they have “shown up” on it. Jean Watts

On Aug 2, 2024, at 10:47 PM, James Wiegel via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

We are camping in Adair, Iowa, city park headed for Duluth. We could stop by Wells tomorrow for coffee or lunch for further philosophication, if that seems at all productive. Jim Wiegel “We are all time travelers journeying into the future. But let us make that future a place we want to visit. “ Stephen Hawking

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On Aug 2, 2024, at 9:35 PM, Doug and Pat Druckenmiller <dpat23@msn.com> wrote:

 Here is a direct quote from the opening passage:

"Man is spirit. But what is spirit? Spirit is the self. But what is the self? The self is a relation which relates itself to its own self, or it is that in the relation which accounts for it that the relation relates itself to its own self; the self is not the relation but consists in the fact that the relation relates itself to its own self. Man is a synthesis of the infinite and the finite, of the temporal and the eternal, of freedom and necessity, in short it is a synthesis. A synthesis is a relation between two factors. So regarded, man is not yet a self."

Get Outlook for Android <https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg> From: Doug and Pat Druckenmiller <dpat23@msn.com> Sent: Friday, August 2, 2024 8:57:51 PM To: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Order Community <oe@wedgeblade.net> Cc: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Dialogue] Question about Kierkegaard

As i recall, this formulation is a one sentence summary of Kierkegard's "The Sickness Unto Death." The forms of despair are all ways of not willing to be the self that we fundamentally are. The self is a fundamental relationship between the finite and the eternal and we are conscious of this fundamental relationship, thus "the self is a relation which relates itself to itself". The forms of despair are all the ways we refuse to be this fundamental relation as detailed in the "forms of despair", The sickness unto death - our unwillingness to be the given self that we fundamentally are. By willing to be this fundamental self we ground our self transparently in the power that has created this unique self. The Tillich paper explores the fundamental dynamics of this despair (sin) and the willingness to be the created self which grounds us transparently in the power that posits us (Grace.)

Dou Druckenmiller.

Get Outlook for Android <https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg> From: Dialogue <dialogue-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net> on behalf of James Wiegel via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2024 5:35:30 PM To: Colleague Dialogue Listserve <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>; Order Community <oe@wedgeblade.net> Cc: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> Subject: [Dialogue] Question about Kierkegaard

I keep remembering "The self is a relation; that relates itself to itself; and in willing to be that relation; grounds itself transparently in the power that posits it."

And I remember the diagram with the lines and boxes and curvy arrows.

Where did that come from (which book or paper?). What was SK pointing to? What were we pointing to?

I am afeared that I am misusing it.

Thanks.

Jim Wiegel “We are all time travelers journeying into the future. But let us make that future a place we want to visit. “ Stephen Hawking

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