Debra and Karen

We are dancing in a space which is not clear and which all forms of interpretation are limiting.

My interpretation of Karen's point in her talk about historical bias narrowing our view on or not allowing us to see data and if we do see it to bias the interpretation.  Opening ourselves to the Aboriginal wisdom gives us access to another view, still human and therefore frail and not complete but coming from a more profound and comprehensive intention of honoring the whole not just humanistic perspective.

Adding more perspectives in futures scenarios helps broaden the evidence pool loving forward.   Certain actions clearly will make a difference over time but as Elgin points out even if we make the changes it is about making the recovery more quickly or reducing th trough not about avoiding the pain.

As karen said it about joining or at least seeing the dots that might join later.

The reason I wanted to share back is the ICAI CD group is thinking about three aspects: Determining the new edge of CD; Expanding our CD community and access; Documenting our work, sharing practices and training others.  I thought Karens point opened new pace on the first two.  Elgins does as well.  

With respect, 
Larry



On Oct 11, 2021, at 06:58, Karen Newkirk <karennewkirk@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you Debra, 
Yes, it is very important to keep things in context. I agree completely with your analysis. Larry was paraphrasing from me paraphrasing. So, to get back to the context please see Hans Rosling’s TED Talks on global human development:

https://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_the_best_stats_you_ve_ever_seen

This is his first TED talk from 2006 and since then he has done at least two updates. What I quoted came from more than one of these. While his work is not on climate change it is inspirational and valuable especially in the context of comprehensive global community development. 

The other source is FuturePods - Here is the link to many interviews with foresight practitioners concerned about human futures: https://www.futurepod.org/episodes 

My interview is number 111. The knowledge (in the three dot points) to which I am referring is Indigenous Australian knowledge, (which I know to contain knowledge that is not common to Western knowledge. Other First Nations knowledge may also contain such knowledge.) Knowledge that connects humans collectively and individually with the environment. We know that some Western scientists also have some of this knowledge. I hope that this helps to join the dots.

Thank you
Karen

Karen Clover Newkirk
52 Nelson Rd Queenscliff VIC 3225
karennewkirk@creatingeternity.com.au
0419 577 489


On 11 Oct 2021, at 3:30 am, Debra Harris <quantum1135@yahoo.com> wrote:

Larry,
I’m trying to hold the tension between what you wrote and the conversations we had during the group study on Choosing Earth. I’m not sure how Elgin’s (and many other) solemn predictions on climate change fit into the below paradigm…  
  1. Most things improve
  2. Most people are in the middle
  3. Countries need social development
  4. The things we fear are unlikely to kill us
#3 is absolutely correct. 

Yet concerning #1 & # 3:  I fear the rapid progression of climate change and worry it will potentially kill much of humanity if we don’t make significant changes/mitigation/radical decisions & actions.  In other words, change is happening, there is deep desire to improve our situation and yet it will take system wide global radical actions- and even those actions may be too late… 

On what helps makes a difference, you wrote:
  • Knowledge
  • Enthusiasm for possible human futures
  • Ethical values creative tensions to deal with modern reality - respectful reality with the biosphere and each other
Sincerely,
Debra Harris
Houston
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Saturday, October 9, 2021, 8:38 PM, Lawrence Philbrook via Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

Thanks Jim and thanks Karen

I found Karens Podcast very good.   The community development Community of Practice was talking yesterday about the edge of Community development work and I am wondering if your podcast illunimates the complexity of the question.

Can you say some more about Aggressive Inertia and how to perceive it and counter it?

Hans Rosling ted talks (serious possibilist) Seemingly impossible is possible we could have a good world
  1. Most things improve
  2. Most people are in the middle
  3. Countries need social development
  4. The things we fear are unlikely to kill us

Avoiding preconceived ideas to learn from Indigenous peoples - 4 categories of knowledge = Literacy of the land - Clues
  • 21 Stories from around Australia - Enduring narrative
  • Acute observation - Observing a Moth
  • Alert responsiveness - Marine Parade re-enactment
  • Wholistic Attentiveness- Fire management but barrier to seeing through to the level of complexity because of pre-conceptions
3 human constructs that are critical
  • Knowledge
  • Enthusiasm for possible human futures
  • Ethical values creative tensions to deal with modern reality - respectful reality with the biosphere and each other
With respect, Larry

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-111-bending-history-karen-newkirk/id1446199958?i=1000537185353

On Oct 10, 2021, at 04:37, dialogue-request@lists.wedgeblade.net wrote:

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Today's Topics:

  1. Dr. Karen Newkirk. Bending History (James Wiegel)

From: James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Dialogue] Dr. Karen Newkirk. Bending History
Date: October 9, 2021 at 21:14:31 GMT+8
To: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net>, OE Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>


https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-111-bending-history-karen-newkirk/id1446199958?i=1000537185353

Jim Wiegel

“A revolution is on the horizon:  a wholesale transformation of the world economy and the way people live.”  Fred Krupp



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