<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">Dear Bill,<div><br></div><div>I’m in awe of the dedication and service you and Carol have provided for so many in El Paso through your network of health services. You are intimately related to America’s Spanish community, creating an institution that is a cornerstone of America’s multiculturalism.</div><div><br></div><div>I am in awe of your mind - the discipline with which you process arcane Greek theological terms; the rigour with which you take with putting undocumented persons into the context of the American constitution and American law.</div><div><br></div><div>In my little world, for the past number of years you have also kept company with Gene Marshall, whose loss I mourn.</div><div><br></div><div>Ever grateful, Ken</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Oct 7, 2025, at 8:12 AM, Bill Schlesinger via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div><meta charset="UTF-8"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><ul type="disc" style="margin-bottom: 0in; margin-top: 0in;"><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 2.6pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">A partial answer: You asked: “</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">how is it that people who entered our country illegally have any rights--due process or other?”<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">The rights afforded to undocumented persons in the United States are derived from the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments, which guarantee due process and equal protection to all "persons" within U.S. borders, not just citizens. While the Constitution doesn't specifically mention undocumented immigrants, the Supreme Court has repeatedly upheld that the word "person" applies to them as well.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">I’m confused by your statement, ‘The people that are singled out are not citizens.’ U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) has detained U.S. citizens, sometimes erroneously and in violation of the law. While federal policy explicitly states that ICE cannot use its civil immigration authority to arrest or detain U.S. citizens, reports and lawsuits have documented instances of this happening. <o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Wrongful detentions and legal action<o:p></o:p></span></div><ul type="disc" style="margin-bottom: 0in; margin-top: 0in;"><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Government Accountability Office report: A 2021 GAO report found that between fiscal year 2015 and early 2020, ICE arrested 674 potential U.S. citizens, detained 121, and deported 70. The GAO also found insufficient record-keeping, suggesting the numbers may be higher.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Recent lawsuits and allegations: As of late 2025, new lawsuits and media reports have detailed multiple wrongful detentions. For example, a U.S.-born construction worker sued the federal government in October 2025 after being detained twice by immigration agents during workplace raids.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">The perception is that ICE is racially profiling people rather than developing information and acting on it regarding individuals. In El Paso, ICE routinely detains persons showing up for their immigration hearings in compliance with their court orders. They are either detained in disregard of their compliance, or told that their applications have been ‘administratively terminated’ with no due process.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos; line-height: 18pt; background: white;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Desperate people do desperate things. However, a substantial body of research indicates that undocumented persons generally commit violent offenses at significantly lower rates than U.S.-born citizens. The assertion that immigrants are more prone to crime is not supported by evidence. In fact, national and state-level studies consistently show that undocumented immigrants have a lower propensity for both violent and property crimes. <o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos; line-height: 21pt; background: white;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Key findings from research<o:p></o:p></span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 18pt; background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Symbol;"><span>·<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-width: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-emoji: normal; font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-variation-settings: normal;"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Texas arrest data: A 2020 study in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences used unique data from the Texas Department of Public Safety (the only state that records criminal arrests by immigration status) to compare felony arrest rates. It found that between 2012 and 2018:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 18pt; background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";"><span>o<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-width: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-emoji: normal; font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-variation-settings: normal;"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">U.S.-born citizens were over two times more likely to be arrested for violent crimes than undocumented immigrants.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 18pt; background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";"><span>o<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-width: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-emoji: normal; font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-variation-settings: normal;"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Arrest rates for specific violent felonies, like homicide and assault, were considerably lower for undocumented immigrants.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 18pt; background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Symbol;"><span>·<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-width: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-emoji: normal; font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-variation-settings: normal;"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">National Incarceration Rates: A 2025 analysis by the <a href="https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/immigrants-cut-victimization-rates-boost-crime-reporting" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: windowtext; text-decoration: none;">Cato Institute</span></a> using census data found that undocumented immigrants have a lower incarceration rate than native-born Americans.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 18pt; background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";"><span>o<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-width: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-emoji: normal; font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-variation-settings: normal;"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">In 2023, the incarceration rate for undocumented immigrants was 613 per 100,000, compared to 1,221 per 100,000 for native-born Americans.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 18pt; background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Courier New";"><span>o<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-width: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-emoji: normal; font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-variation-settings: normal;"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Even when factoring in detention for immigration violations, the incarceration rate for undocumented immigrants remains lower than that of native-born citizens.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos; text-indent: -0.25in; line-height: 18pt; background: white;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Symbol;"><span>·<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-width: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size-adjust: none; font-kerning: auto; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-emoji: normal; font-feature-settings: normal; font-optical-sizing: auto; font-variation-settings: normal;"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">FBI data and historical trends: A 2024 analysis by the <a href="https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/fact-sheet/debunking-myth-immigrants-and-crime/" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: windowtext; text-decoration: none;">American Immigration Council</span></a> found that as the share of immigrants in the U.S. population increased between 1980 and 2022, the overall crime rate decreased significantly. During this period, the violent crime rate dropped by 34.5%<o:p></o:p></span></p><ul type="disc" style="margin-bottom: 0in; margin-top: 0in;"><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">You said, ‘</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">the sheer volume of trafficked individuals who were victimized by those “importing” them into our country.’<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">I live in El Paso. Coyotes – the ‘traffickers’ – have little regard for the people they transport and have often left them to die. Knowing this, people still apply to their services even today. They do this out of desperation – and faith. They ‘trust in God’ to see them through in the face of gangs and often terror in their home situations (not all regions are alike) and see no alternative but finding ‘safe haven’ in the USA. Unfortunately neither political party has acted to create a humane and functional system to allow legal entry under internationally accepted asylum standards. The system has been politicized with ‘special access’ for those in favor of the ruling party(ies). And this changes arbitrarily (see what’s happened with Haitians now being sent back to chaos after being here for 30 years).<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Lost children – many are DACA recipients and being told that they must now go to a country where they do not speak the language, to parents ill prepared to receive them. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">This is not a simple situation.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">FWIW<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Bill Schlesinger<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">(915) 490-6148 Cell<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div><div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(225, 225, 225) currentcolor currentcolor; border-image: none; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>OE <<a href="mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Susan Fertig via OE<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, October 6, 2025 7:41 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Order Ecumenical Community <<a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>><br><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Susan Fertig <<a href="mailto:sfertig@blueskytech.us" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">sfertig@blueskytech.us</a>><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Oe List ...] OE Digest, Vol 163, Issue 6<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Larry, I respect your points.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">My concern is based on:<o:p></o:p></span></div><ul type="disc" style="margin-bottom: 0in; margin-top: 0in;"><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">the hordes of people tearing down the barricades put up to keep them out in the Biden Administration<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">the numbers of violent criminals and not so violent criminals that make it difficult to discern who is and who isn’t<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">the sheer volume of trafficked individuals who were victimized by those “importing” them into our country<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">the number of lost, unaccompanied children who have never been recovered and who should be sent back to their parents<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">My lack of concern is based on:<o:p></o:p></span></div><ul type="disc" style="margin-bottom: 0in; margin-top: 0in;"><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 2.6pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">how is it that people who entered our country illegally have any rights--due process or other?<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 2.6pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">How is it that we are not worried about ICE officers being identified when the hordes of violent protesters and those who openly threaten ICE wear masks routinely?<o:p></o:p></span></li></ul><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">I do take issue with your assertion that “No matter how many white men go on killing sprees in the US we are not singled out…”<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">I would state that ”No matter how many black or brown or white men…”<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">The people that are singled out are not American citizens.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">I often find Trump’s rhetoric offensive. I often find he overstates for effect, which I don’t condone. I often find him bragging, which I abhor.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">That said, I support him as President—God is big enough that He can use anybody, no matter how flawed, for His purposes.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">I often find the rhetoric used against the “other side” abhorrent as well—to talk of openly supporting killing anyone who doesn’t agree with them or suggests an idea that is different is horrible.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><i><span style="font-size: 16pt; font-family: Papyrus; color: rgb(8, 8, 8);">Susan<o:p></o:p></span></i></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(8, 8, 8);"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Papyrus; color: rgb(8, 8, 8);">Susan Fertig-Dykes<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Papyrus; color: rgb(8, 8, 8);"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><i><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Papyrus;">And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought . Isaiah 58:11</span></i><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Papyrus;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div><div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(225, 225, 225) currentcolor currentcolor; border-image: none; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>OE <<a href="mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Lawrence Philbrook via OE<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, October 06, 2025 9:18 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a><br><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Lawrence Philbrook <<a href="mailto:icalarry@gmail.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">icalarry@gmail.com</a>><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Oe List ...] OE Digest, Vol 163, Issue 6<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;">Susan you raise a valid question<o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;">The ICE challenge in America and the ICA response, what is the frame of reference? <o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;">Yes there is broad agreement that too many illegal and unvetted immigrants were allowed into the US. Especially those who committed crimes in their own country and in the US. <b><u>These people are officially the publicized target of the ICE raids.</u></b> However <span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 31, 31); background: white;">Current numbers - </span><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Segoe UI", sans-serif; border: 1pt solid rgb(229, 231, 235); padding: 0in; background: rgb(254, 252, 232);">42,755</span><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Segoe UI", sans-serif; background: rgb(254, 252, 232);"> out of <span style="border: 1pt solid rgb(229, 231, 235); padding: 0in;">59,762</span>—or <span style="border: 1pt solid rgb(229, 231, 235); padding: 0in;">71.5%</span> held in ICE detention have no criminal conviction according to data current as of <span style="border: 1pt solid rgb(229, 231, 235); padding: 0in;">September 21, 2025</span>.</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;">ICE has responsibility to apprehend and return people who are in the US illegally. They have a difficult and sometimes dangerous job. It has been made more complicated by the political climate and expectations placed on them by consecutive administrations. Their legal status can literally change day to day based on the administration withdrawing legal status that had been given earlier. The current administration does these changes overnight making it very difficult for the “illegals” to know they are illegal. This can affect hundreds of thousands of people with each decision.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;">The manner in which they implement their job is in question<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><ul type="disc" style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;">Do they follow due process laws which are required in our country whether you are a citizen or not<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;">Do they appear masked, weapons drawn and without warrants <o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;">Do they only stop and arrest illegal immigrants (the worst of the worst criminals) or stop and hold all people who speak Spanish and look like they are immigrants or are at places where “illegals” look for employment to make sure they have caught and deported enough people for their quota.<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;">The consequence being American Citizens and legal immigrants being handcuffed and held hours or days - disrupting their lives especially those who live paycheck to paycheck simply to make the officers catching process simpler. <o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;">Their leadership is not making it easier to believe they are not intentionally harassing American citizens who “fit the description"<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;">American citizens who are children are being deported without due process or a care structure.<o:p></o:p></li></ul><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;">As an old white American Male I can not imagine this happening to me. No matter how many white men go on killing sprees in the US we are not singled out as an issue. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;">Evelyn being Japanese American has family history about the US sending troops to round them up and send them to camps. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;">ICE and the republican politicians bragging about The Aligator Alcatraz with most of the people inside being without any other criminal actions, does not stimulate trust in the system.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;">Am I missing something that you are seeing that is different than the above?<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;">With respect,<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;">Larry<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div></div></div><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span style="font-size: 13px;">CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). 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