<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"><head><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml><o:OfficeDocumentSettings><o:AllowPNG/><o:PixelsPerInch>96</o:PixelsPerInch></o:OfficeDocumentSettings></xml><![endif]--></head><body>
Marsha, I admire your strength and courage as there is pain around the whole issue of how children & youth were viewed and treated in the Order. I also have been meaning to respond and hadn’t really known how, hence my relative silence. I applaud your writing, it is <span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">a thoughtful account that is both highly personal and yet speaks for many more than yourself</span><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">. You have treated Order members</span><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"> (and yourself) </span><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">with respect and care. It is highly uncomfortable to talk what ensued within </span><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">the Order, as we haven’t done as </span><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">much self analysis as we could</span><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"> on our Order life, our care structures, particularly the care of children/youth. This is not to say people haven’t tried but we always tried to maintain such a strong public face that we glossed over or even didn’t recognize some of our inner flaws & </span><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">our neglected inner work. Much of the EG curriculum was quite wonderful, yet we were too hyper focused on the exterior mission and thought everyone had to be in</span><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"> structures serving that mission. I would add that we started to deepen</span><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"> the conversation at Vail in 2000 and many youth and families continued to talking/trying to reconcile what happened</span><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;">- yet not as much that I’m aware</span><span style="-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;"> on this list serve or as part of our overall reflections as the Order. </span><div><div><br></div><div>I will be in Chicago to help with the Archives 7/12-7/26. We’re working a lot in the basement since files & records continue to be vulnerable to damp & mildew, even occasional pipes bursting. We still have some duplications in our files in the basement, though most have been worked on diligently to cull and preserve what is most essential. (Many files were sent without the Order houses or individuals go through and culling duplicates or extraneous documents. It’s a big job ongoing job to continue to get pertinent docs on the Archives website.</div><div><br></div><div>I’m trying to think how to incorporate more internal reflections like yours on the website. Youth were greatly affected, as were individuals & families who didn’t always “fit in well with the structures & mission”. I know youth kept up a network with each other over the past 25 years and some have expressed a great deal of pain. Also, early on, folk couldn’t embrace their identity as a gay person, (had to subsume, hide or ignore it). Separations or divorce was discouraged and people originally had to leave. People also left because they felt different or their voices weren’t fully heard in the midst of corporateness. Some were more introverted or needed more personal time than structures would allow. Some had mental health issues or deep depression that couldn’t be explained away as just “dark night of the soul”. I’m thinking out loud here as I type, but wanted to respond to Marsha and this thread before too much time passes.</div><div><br></div><div>With respect and care, </div><div>Debra Harris</div><div>Houston<br><div class="yahoo-signature" style=""><a style="font-size:12px" href="https://mail.onelink.me/107872968?pid=nativeplacement&c=Global_Acquisition_YMktg_315_Internal_EmailSignature&af_sub1=Acquisition&af_sub2=Global_YMktg&af_sub3=&af_sub4=100000604&af_sub5=EmailSignature__Static_&af_ios_store_cpp=9d3a686e-218d-4849-8298-b480188dc8ac&af_android_url=https%3A%2F%2Fplay.google.com%2Fstore%2Fapps%2Fdetails%3Fid%3Dcom.yahoo.mobile.client.android.mail%26listing%3Demail_signature">Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone</a><br></div><br><p class="yahoo-quoted-begin" style="font-size: 15px; color: rgb(132, 115, 255); padding-top: 15px; margin-top: 0px;">On Monday, July 7, 2025, 3:19 PM, Geri Tolman via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:</p><blockquote class="iosymail" style=""><div id="yiv2803767723"><div>I am so thankful that David and Marsha have shared their wisdom with our community and have once again prompted conversations, reflections and (dare I say it?) healing to all of our families. Their writings are such a gift to those of us who still have the luxury of time to spend with our “kids”.<div><br clear="none"></div><div>Thank you also to Cheryl for your reply which echos my sentiments. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>May we all heal and be strong enough to continue caring. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Respectfully,</div><div>Geri Tolman</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir="ltr"><div id="yiv2803767723yqtfd60857" class="yiv2803767723yqt0852149122"><br clear="none"><blockquote type="cite">On Jul 7, 2025, at 1:43 PM, Dianne Greenwald via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></blockquote></div></div><div id="yiv2803767723yqtfd93452" class="yiv2803767723yqt0852149122"><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"></div></blockquote></div></div></div><div id="yiv2803767723yqtfd67271" class="yiv2803767723yqt0852149122"><div>Much gratitude from me for all of your participation in holding ALL of our history. My daughter suffered many years from abuse that occurred at a very young age. And neglect from parents who did love her very much but were not present and unable to meet the emotional psychological distress she struggled with. She was an adult when we finally accessed what happened <div>Years later-Recently through Buddhist practices we have come to care for each other in deep new honest ways which are building a beautiful relationship still requiring much staying present and seeing through. I’m grateful for all of the journey. She’s visiting this week. This morning I realized-acknowledged to her I am learning to love the violent protector of your little girl so that it may be free to let you go.You have the little girl now safely in your own love. <div>AND…Somehow at the end of this journey the work of learning to create a space where we walk safely together IS on behalf of all. </div><div>Again thank you all for holding this space together.</div><div>Dianne Greenwald <br clear="none" id="yiv2803767723lineBreakAtBeginningOfSignature"><div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"><blockquote type="cite">On Jul 7, 2025, at 2:42 AM, Sunny Walker via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p dir="ltr">Thank you for expressing my own sense.<br clear="none">
Sunny</p>
<br clear="none"><div class="yiv2803767723gmail_quote yiv2803767723gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="yiv2803767723gmail_attr">On Sun, Jul 6, 2025, 9:18 PM Cheryl Hood via OE <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;" class="yiv2803767723gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">Marsha,<div><br clear="none"></div><div>I am going to be very presumptive here and offer a reponse on behalf of the many good folks in this community. The deafening silence you hear is not people avoiding the topic you raised; but people who have been stunned, shamed, and humiliated into silence, not knowing what the proper response is.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>The proper response includes NO defenses, or justification. We are all internalizing the intense pain you must have felt. How alone, how powerless, you must have experienced yourself. On behalf of all of us, I offer an abject apology that we weren't present to that pain at the time.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>I was so moved by your affirmation of the other gifts of the Order, and your colleagues, in the face of that pain. Thank you for offering that; it provides a glimpse into the healing that has taken place.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>I hope that you had the opportunity and experience of confronting this - and resolving it - with your parents. As a parent, I can tell you that the pain of knowing your child suffered something so devastating is only matched by the pain of knowing we failed you in that moment. All the wonderful Order teachings and platitudes about Grace fall away in the face of our children's pain at our own hands.<br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>We appreciate your courage as we wrestle with our own justification. Thank you for sharing; and forgive our inadequate responses.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Cheryl Hood</div></div><br clear="none"><div class="yiv2803767723gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="yiv2803767723gmail_attr">On Sat, Jul 5, 2025 at 4:09 PM Marsha Hahn via OE <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;" class="yiv2803767723gmail_quote"><div><div style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div></div>
<div dir="ltr">Marilyn,</div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">I so appreciate your thoughtful reply. I'm aware of the silence on the OE listserv since I wrote several days ago. A heaviness has come over me, too. </div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">Thank you for your deep, honest sharing. I appreciate hearing the intensely compelling things going on in the world and the church that drew you and Joe to the Order. That was a time of awakening and consciousness-raising -- civil rights, war protest, etc. I can see how the OE and EI were a vehicle for living out that new consciousness. </div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">It sounds like a brave move for you, Judy, and Mimi to make your case to JWM to take your children with you to India. I'm glad the three of you prevailed. I have no doubt that it mattered to you and your kids. </div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">Thank you again for being so open and honest in your sharing.</div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">Marsha</div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div>
</div><div id="yiv2803767723m_-2613919444564610236m_9022993604198961809ydp1469fb98yahoo_quoted_2148551385">
<div style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(38,40,42);">
<div>
On Thursday, July 3, 2025 at 08:53:49 PM PDT, Mari Crocker <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:maricrocker@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:maricrocker@gmail.com">maricrocker@gmail.com</a>> wrote:
</div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div><br clear="none"></div>
<div></div>
</div>
</div></div>_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
OE mailing list<br clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net">OE@lists.wedgeblade.net</a><br clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net">http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net</a><br clear="none">
</blockquote></div>
_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
OE mailing list<br clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net">OE@lists.wedgeblade.net</a><br clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net">http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net</a><br clear="none">
</blockquote></div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br clear="none"><span>OE mailing list</span><br clear="none"><span>OE@lists.wedgeblade.net</span><br clear="none"><span>http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net</span><br clear="none"></div></blockquote></div></div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br clear="none"><span>OE mailing list</span><br clear="none"><span>OE@lists.wedgeblade.net</span><br clear="none"><span>http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net</span><br clear="none"></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>OE mailing list<br><a ymailto="mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net" href="mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net">OE@lists.wedgeblade.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net" target="_blank">http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net</a><br><blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></div></div>
</body></html>