<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">21 words. Great point. I’m in<br id="lineBreakAtBeginningOfSignature"><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-size: 13pt;">Jim Wiegel</span><br><div>
<p class="p1"><span class="s1" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">“…the long work<br>
of turning their lives<br>
into a celebration<br>
is not easy. Come </span><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0); font-size: 19pt;">and let us talk</span><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0); font-size: 19pt;">“. </span></p><p class="p1"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0); font-size: 19pt;">The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver</span></p></div></div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Feb 12, 2025, at 8:16 PM, Bill Parker via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">We need a session on “a path forward”. Our specific experience, context, and process understanding is exactly what is needed now. <br><br><div dir="ltr">Bill Parker <div><br></div></div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Feb 9, 2025, at 6:59 PM, Richard and Maria Maguire via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p>Hi </p>
<p>I agree with what Randy, Ken and Dharmalingam say to a great
extent, and would like to add something. I believe that most if
not all of the people on this list are in great pain about what is
going on now and what has been going on for past many decades and
even centuries that have led up to the current situation. I know
for sure that we have been working for decades to support and
entirely new approach to society, but in spite of our efforts and
those of millions of others, the powerful close ranks and push
forward. We are not alone in having done a lot and also not alone
in feeling the pain.</p>
<p>To my mind the Trump clique, both the American and international
one, would like to distract their citizens from the attacks on
democracy that they and others have been carrying out for a long
time. At the same time it seems to me that they would like to
push the colonial project on further against the will and wishes
of most people. They have grabbed the positions of power in the
media, education, productive industry, government and so much
more, and would love to go further.</p>
<p>That so many American citizens remain so ignorant of the rest of
the world and even most of the rest of their own nation is another
great pain, and this continues despite our and many others'
significant efforts for many decades. It's so hard to know what
do to that will really change the direction.</p>
<p>Yes it is so painful that even though the consequences of
"anticipatory obedience" are well known, not least though the
events around the Nazi government, that many tend to still do the
same probably out of fear of consequences for themselves as well
as the pain of having to face up to what's going on and all this
again in spite of the dedicated efforts of our selves and so many.<br>
</p>
<p>Maria and I have been quite grateful to have discovered and using
the insights and meditations of Self-Compassion as developed by
Kristin Neff and many others. As I listen to what she says, it is
really a practical application of what we have said about the
Christ Word, especially, You are accepted, the past is approved,
the future is open. This is not about retreat into yourself, but
empowering and supporting yourself and others. If this approach
is new to you as it was to us, you can learn more at
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.self-compassion.org">www.self-compassion.org</a>. <br>
</p>
<p>To get a view into the long term international anti-democratic
strategies of the international political and economic elites, I
highly recommend The Crisis of Democracy a research project of the
TriLateral commission in the late 60's. The "crisis" for them was
the rising expectation of people for a more democratic society and
they outlined a strategy that you will easily recognize has been
going on since the early 70's to shut it down. Reading it is like
reading the battle plan of the powerful and privileged to keep the
world safe for themselves. It is even available for free online
on the Internet Archive <br>
</p>
<p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://ia801308.us.archive.org/23/items/TheCrisisOfDemocracy-TrilateralCommission-1975/crisis_of_democracy_text.pdf">https://ia801308.us.archive.org/23/items/TheCrisisOfDemocracy-TrilateralCommission-1975/crisis_of_democracy_text.pdf</a></p>
<p>On a contemporary note, we have become aware of the Atlas
Network, a collaboration of anti-democratic organisations funded
largely by fossil fuel billionaires, is also useful. Their
strategy is to fund think-tanks around the world, such as <span class="BxUVEf ILfuVd" lang="en"><span class="hgKElc">the Cato
Institute, Heartland Institute in the US and the Institute of
Public Affairs in Australia. Their website claims to now have
500 affiliates in over 100 countries.</span></span></p>
<p><span class="BxUVEf ILfuVd" lang="en"><span class="hgKElc">Adam
Smith </span></span><span class="BxUVEf ILfuVd" lang="en"><span class="hgKElc">described these efforts over 200 years ago </span></span><span class="BxUVEf ILfuVd" lang="en"><span class="hgKElc">with a
concise phrase</span></span><span class="BxUVEf ILfuVd" lang="en"><span class="hgKElc"> </span></span><span class="BxUVEf ILfuVd" lang="en"><span class="hgKElc">in "The
Wealth of Nations" , <b>"Whenever these people get together,
even for sport or amusement, the public is worse off. </b>
The talk is about how to reduce wages and raise prices."</span></span></p>
<p><span class="BxUVEf ILfuVd" lang="en"><span class="hgKElc">Finally
Maria I would like to thank everyone on this list for what you
have done for peace and justice in the world, and catalysing
awareness and action for so many, in our world, and we have
all made a great difference against great odds.</span></span></p>
<p><span class="BxUVEf ILfuVd" lang="en"><span class="hgKElc">Grace
and Peace</span></span></p>
<p><span class="BxUVEf ILfuVd" lang="en"><span class="hgKElc">Richard<b><br>
</b></span></span></p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/02/2025 8:01 am,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net">oe-request@lists.wedgeblade.net</a> wrote:<br>
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of
"anticipatory obedience" (Dharmalingam Vinasithamby)
2. West condones genocide (Ken Fisher)
3. Re: Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory
obedience" (RICHARD HOWIE)
4. Re: West condones genocide (Randy Williams)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 01:46:26 +0000 (UTC)
From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dvinasithamby@yahoo.com"><dvinasithamby@yahoo.com></a>
To: Colleague Dialogue <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net"><dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net></a>, Order
Ecumenical Community <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net"><oe@lists.wedgeblade.net></a>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the
dangers of "anticipatory obedience"
Message-ID: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:2068938938.10282361.1739065586212@mail.yahoo.com"><2068938938.10282361.1739065586212@mail.yahoo.com></a>
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In his op-ed on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience", Masha Gessen presents ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Trump? as a looming threat. Some may see this article as timely and relevant but I see it as part of Western media?s continuing effort to keep Americans in their bubble. From my possibly recalcitrant point of view from the other side of the world, the Americans are no strangers to anticipatory obedience. Most of them have confronted ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Biden? without a cringe. After electing a warmonger as President who conspired with Netanyahu to make the US a partner in genocide, how much more trying would MAGA be? As long as Americans wail about Trump leading them without acknowledging what has been done in their name over the last four years, they will remain in their bubble while the world looks on with horror.?
On Sunday, 9 February 2025 at 07:31:33 am MYT, Ellie Stock via Dialogue <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net"><dialogue@lists.wedgeblade.net></a> wrote:
Hi Folks,Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience". . .Ellie?elliestock@aol.com?
This op-ed in The NY Times calls on us not to obey in advance:?<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/08/opinion/trump-power-surrender.html?unlocked_article_code=1.vU4.GN6W.UhwJBG0c4Bv_&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare">https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/08/opinion/trump-power-surrender.html?unlocked_article_code=1.vU4.GN6W.UhwJBG0c4Bv_&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare</a>
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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 00:49:40 -0600
From: Ken Fisher <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:kenfisher1942@gmail.com"><kenfisher1942@gmail.com></a>
To: Dharmalingam Vinasthamby <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dvinasithamby@yahoo.com"><dvinasithamby@yahoo.com></a>, "O:E Lists"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net"><oe@lists.wedgeblade.net></a>
Subject: [Oe List ...] West condones genocide
Message-ID: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:A607120F-BD98-4F9B-BAD0-2D49805FCEB5@gmail.com"><A607120F-BD98-4F9B-BAD0-2D49805FCEB5@gmail.com></a>
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<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://open.substack.com/pub/charlieangus/p/trump-and-the-destruction-of-gaza?r=18u6j&utm_medium=ios">https://open.substack.com/pub/charlieangus/p/trump-and-the-destruction-of-gaza?r=18u6j&utm_medium=ios</a>
Jesus wept.
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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 06:58:01 -0500
From: RICHARD HOWIE <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rhowie3@verizon.net"><rhowie3@verizon.net></a>
To: Order Ecumenical Community <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net"><oe@lists.wedgeblade.net></a>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of
"anticipatory obedience"
Message-ID: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:3AB29BC2-F90B-4887-8856-103A1D50E042@verizon.net"><3AB29BC2-F90B-4887-8856-103A1D50E042@verizon.net></a>
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Thank You Ellie. Such an important warning .
Love, Ellen
Sent from my iPad
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre">On Feb 8, 2025, at 9:14 PM, Ellie Stock via OE <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net"><oe@lists.wedgeblade.net></a> wrote:
?
Hi Folks,
Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience". . .
Ellie
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:elliestock@aol.com">elliestock@aol.com</a>
This op-ed in The NY Times calls on us not to obey in advance:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/08/opinion/trump-power-surrender.html?unlocked_article_code=1.vU4.GN6W.UhwJBG0c4Bv_&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare">https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/08/opinion/trump-power-surrender.html?unlocked_article_code=1.vU4.GN6W.UhwJBG0c4Bv_&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare</a>
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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 07:53:24 -0500
From: Randy Williams <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:randycw1938@gmail.com"><randycw1938@gmail.com></a>
To: Order Ecumenical Community <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net"><oe@lists.wedgeblade.net></a>
Cc: Dharmalingam Vinasthamby <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dvinasithamby@yahoo.com"><dvinasithamby@yahoo.com></a>, "Lists O:E"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net"><oe@lists.wedgeblade.net></a>, Ken Fisher <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:kenfisher1942@gmail.com"><kenfisher1942@gmail.com></a>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] West condones genocide
Message-ID: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:E46FE122-5133-4B99-85B4-3354DB9E02EB@gmail.com"><E46FE122-5133-4B99-85B4-3354DB9E02EB@gmail.com></a>
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I believe what many are saying about Trump, that his prating on and on about invasion, expansion, etc., including in Gaza, is to distract from his systemic dismantling of U.S. democracy. Trump is much more focussed on ethnic cleansing in the U.S. than in the Middle East. His talk about Gaza has the added benefit for him of reestablishing the bonds between him and Netanyahu. I thought the wry smile on Netanyahu?s face when Trump was announcing his ?vision? for Gaza was revealing. If distraction is indeed Trump?s ploy, the media, in the U.S. and internationally, have certainly taken the bait.
Randy
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre">On Feb 9, 2025, at 1:50?AM, Ken Fisher via OE <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net"><oe@lists.wedgeblade.net></a> wrote:
?<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://open.substack.com/pub/charlieangus/p/trump-and-the-destruction-of-gaza?r=18u6j&utm_medium=ios">https://open.substack.com/pub/charlieangus/p/trump-and-the-destruction-of-gaza?r=18u6j&utm_medium=ios</a>
Jesus wept.
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