<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">Hmm, how did the song go? "Observe and judge, the given facts, <div>Weigh up the values . . "</div><div><br></div><div><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-size: 13pt;">Jim Wiegel</span><br><div>
<p class="p1"><span class="s1" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">“We are all time travelers journeying into the future. But let us make that future a place we want to visit. “ </span><span style="font-size: 13pt; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Stephen Hawking</span></p></div></div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Nov 23, 2024, at 7:24 AM, W. J. via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="ydp89c2ce74yahoo-style-wrap" style="font-size: 18px; font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif;"><div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif;"></div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Dick, you. wrote, "<span style="font-size: large;">go see the money..."</span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span style="font-size: large;">OK, so show me the money!</span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span style="font-size: large;">Seriously, I probably will catch the flick eventually. And I certainly want to.</span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span style="font-size: large;">But I'm going for my fifth eye surgery on Monday, so I won't be seeing too well in the immediate future.</span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span style="font-size: large;">Bonhoeffer will just have to wait on my bucket list.</span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span style="font-size: large;">So far I'm just reporting that <b>all</b> of the world's Bonhoeffer scholars are up in arms about this flick, including 'emeritus' Professor John De Gruchy of South Africa (whom I do not know personally, though we have in common a collegial relationship with another 'emeritus' professor of ethics), who is a leader of <a href="https://bonhoeffersociety.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">the International Bonhoeffer Society: English Language Section</a>, and a translator and editor of several Bonhoeffer books in English, including <i>Letters and Papers from Prison</i>.</span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span style="font-size: large;">There's gotta be a reason why there's so much smoke here. Maybe an international firestorm!</span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span style="font-size: large;">So Dick, why not write your own review of the film?</span></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span style="font-size: large;">Marshall</span></div><div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif;"><br></div>
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On Friday, November 22, 2024 at 07:47:49 PM EST, Richard Alton via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
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<div><div id="yiv1316639544"><div><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-size:large;" class="yiv1316639544gmail_default">Marshal. go see the money and lead an ORID conversation with your community.. will surprise you.</div><div style="font-size:large;" class="yiv1316639544gmail_default">Dick</div></div><br clear="none"><div class="yiv1316639544gmail_quote"><div id="yiv1316639544yqt02249" class="yiv1316639544yqt2982611468"><div dir="ltr" class="yiv1316639544gmail_attr">On Fri, Nov 22, 2024 at 5:31 PM W. J. via OE <<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;" class="yiv1316639544gmail_quote"><div><div style="font-family:new times, serif;font-size:18px;"><div dir="ltr">I still haven't seen the movie, but a few of us have. Here's my response to a private email from one colleague:</div><div dir="ltr">Marshall</div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div><div dir="ltr" style="outline-color:currentcolor;"><div dir="ltr" style="outline-color:currentcolor;">D**, I'm guessing from your description that the screenplay was not the result of any in-depth study of Bonhoeffer's life or his theology. </div><div dir="ltr" style="outline-color:currentcolor;">I bet the screenwriter didn't even bother to read Eberhard Bethge's biography.</div><div dir="ltr" style="outline-color:currentcolor;">What I think he did is to create a cartoon Bonhoeffer character by superimposing the skeletal outline of Bonhoeffer's life onto a thriller movie framework.</div><div dir="ltr" style="outline-color:currentcolor;">Leaving out the nuances and agonizing complexities of Bonhoeffer's ethical dilemmas as a pacifist.</div><div dir="ltr" style="outline-color:currentcolor;">I'm not shocked that this cartoon version of Bonhoeffer has him wishing to "tear down the institutional church." </div><div dir="ltr" style="outline-color:currentcolor;">I think the real Bonhoeffer's life was more profoundly nuanced than that kind of statement. His <i style="outline-color:currentcolor;">Life Together</i> and <i style="outline-color:currentcolor;">The Cost of Discipleship</i> were written while he supervised the underground seminary at Finkenwalde for students who were preparing to serve the dissenting Confessing Church that opposed the official German Church coalition that embraced Hitler. </div><div dir="ltr" style="outline-color:currentcolor;">His focus on a "religionless Christianity" is a rejection of the 'smells and bells' and medieval belief system Luther inherited from Catholicism in favor of a radical immersion in the secular life of the world.</div><div dir="ltr" style="outline-color:currentcolor;">And also a radical following of Jesus rather than middle class cultural norms.</div><div dir="ltr" style="outline-color:currentcolor;">Something like the monastic life of seminary students at Finkenwalde. Or maybe the O:E.<br clear="none" style="outline-color:currentcolor;"></div><div style="outline-color:currentcolor;"><div dir="ltr" style="outline-color:currentcolor;">Although Bonhoeffer never abandoned his upper-class entitlement to a rich, privileged life. </div><div style="outline-color:currentcolor;">I believe that <a shape="rect" href="https://spiritualfriendship.org/2014/08/08/one-more-post-on-the-gay-bonhoeffer/" style="outline-color:currentcolor;" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">the real Dietrich was in love with his young student Eberhard</a>, who was the beneficiary of his will.<br clear="none" style="outline-color:currentcolor;"></div></div><div dir="ltr" style="outline-color:currentcolor;">Dietrich reluctantly became engaged to marry the much younger Maria Von Wedemeyer only after her grandmother relentlessly pushed her on him and only after Eberhard got engaged to Dietrich's niece Renate.</div><div dir="ltr" style="outline-color:currentcolor;">I don't get the sense that he was ever hot to make love with Maria. Perhaps their experience of 'true love' was always from an emotional distance, especially after Dietrich's arrest just three months after their announcement. There were letters and supervised visits. That's all.</div><div dir="ltr" style="outline-color:currentcolor;">After both became engaged, Dietrich wrote to Eberhard, imagining that </div></div><blockquote style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;margin-left:40px;border-width:medium;border-style:none;border-color:currentcolor;padding:0px;outline-color:currentcolor;"><div style="font-family:new times, serif;outline-color:currentcolor;"><div dir="ltr" style="outline-color:currentcolor;"><span style="font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;text-align:justify;outline-color:currentcolor;"><b style="outline-color:currentcolor;"><font size="2" style="outline-color:currentcolor;">Now, we can resume our partnership, and we can travel together in those places where we found so much joy, and we can leave our wives back in Germany, in Berlin, or some place.</font></b></span></div></div></blockquote><div style="outline-color:currentcolor;"><div dir="ltr" style="outline-color:currentcolor;">In other words, they both acquired beards, and Dietrich longed to renew and pursue their spiritual friendship as 'soul mates' or whatever they decided to call it. </div><div dir="ltr" style="outline-color:currentcolor;">But Eberhard was never willing to venture below the belt (as far as we can tell).</div><div dir="ltr" style="outline-color:currentcolor;">I'm not at all sure that Dietrich was ever willing to go there, much as he may have longed to do just that. He wrote in prison that he would die a virgin.</div><div dir="ltr" style="outline-color:currentcolor;">But since Eberhard's <i style="outline-color:currentcolor;">whole life</i> was about Dietrich--especially as his martyred mentor and forever lost lover--how <b style="outline-color:currentcolor;">hard</b> is it to understand the depth of his love in return?</div><div dir="ltr" style="outline-color:currentcolor;">At least that's <i style="outline-color:currentcolor;">my</i> version of Bonhoeffer. Now I'll have to see the damn movie!</div><div dir="ltr" style="outline-color:currentcolor;">Marshall</div><div dir="ltr" style="outline-color:currentcolor;"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr" style="outline-color:currentcolor;"><span style="outline-color:currentcolor;"><a shape="rect" href="https://www.patheos.com/blogs/frankschaeffer/2014/06/dietrich-bonhoeffer-was-flamingly-gay-deal-with-it/" style="outline-color:currentcolor;" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Dietrich Bonhoeffer Was Flamingly Gay-- Deal With It</a></span></div></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;margin-top:10px;outline-color:currentcolor;"><h3 style="font-size:14px;font-weight:400;color:rgb(69,69,69);font-family:YahooSans, OpenSans, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;margin:0px;padding:8px 0px;outline-color:currentcolor;"><span style="outline-color:currentcolor;">Links in the message <span style="outline-color:currentcolor;">(1)</span></span></h3><div id="yiv1316639544m_8855428202252300428ydp980848b7yiv2714530353ydpbc0a6909enhancr_card_3203739980" style="max-width:288px;font-family:YahooSans, OpenSans, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;margin:5px 5px 5px 0px;display:inline-block;outline-color:currentcolor;"><a shape="rect" href="https://spiritualfriendship.org/2014/08/08/one-more-post-on-the-gay-bonhoeffer/" style="color:rgb(0,0,0);outline-color:currentcolor;" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="288" height="80" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(224,228,233);width:288px;border-radius:2px;outline-color:currentcolor;"><tbody style="outline-color:currentcolor;"><tr style="outline-color:currentcolor;"><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" width="80px" style="width:80px;background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-radius:2px 0px 0px 2px;border-right:1px solid rgb(224,228,233);outline-color:currentcolor;"><img src="https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/zxRzzEtocMM1hk0TOAFLJw--~A/Zmk9ZmlsbDt3PTgwO2g9ODA7YXBwaWQ9aWV4dHJhY3Q-/https://secure.gravatar.com/blavatar/2cc907ddfd97c36effa06451c4816a2f5edc42d90761d02e4289a23713e62483?s=200&ts=1732309442.cf.jpg" width="80" height="80" style="width:80px;vertical-align:middle;border-radius:2px 0px 0px 2px;outline-color:currentcolor;" data-unique-identifier=""></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" width="10px" style="width:10px;outline-color:currentcolor;"></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="outline-color:currentcolor;"><h2 style="font-size:14px;line-height:16px;color:rgb(29,34,40);margin:4px 0px;max-width:186px;outline-color:currentcolor;">One More Post on the “Gay” Bonhoeffer</h2></td></tr></tbody></table></a><div style="width:288px;min-height:0px;outline-color:currentcolor;"><div style="outline-color:currentcolor;"><div style="outline-color:currentcolor;"><span style="outline-color:currentcolor;"></span><div style="outline-color:currentcolor;"><button title="Share" style="outline-color:currentcolor;"><span style="width:16px;outline-color:currentcolor;"></span></button></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv1316639544m_8855428202252300428ydp980848b7yiv2714530353ydpfd641762enhancr_card_2830400170" style="max-width:288px;font-family:YahooSans, OpenSans, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;margin:5px 5px 5px 0px;display:inline-block;outline-color:currentcolor;"><a shape="rect" href="https://www.patheos.com/blogs/frankschaeffer/2014/06/dietrich-bonhoeffer-was-flamingly-gay-deal-with-it/" style="color:rgb(0,0,0);outline-color:currentcolor;" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="288" height="80" style="border-width:1px;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(224,228,233);width:288px;border-radius:2px;outline-color:currentcolor;"><tbody style="outline-color:currentcolor;"><tr style="outline-color:currentcolor;"><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" width="80px" style="width:80px;background-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-radius:2px 0px 0px 2px;border-right:1px solid rgb(224,228,233);outline-color:currentcolor;"><img src="https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/orrSE.bgVt2AAXC4cR6lsw--~A/Zmk9ZmlsbDt3PTgwO2g9ODA7YXBwaWQ9aWV4dHJhY3Q-/http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41o8jQGhxhL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-v3-big,TopRight,0,-55_SX278_SY278_PIkin4,BottomRight,1,22_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg.cf.jpg" width="80" height="80" style="width:80px;vertical-align:middle;border-radius:2px 0px 0px 2px;outline-color:currentcolor;" data-unique-identifier=""></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" width="10px" style="width:10px;outline-color:currentcolor;"></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="outline-color:currentcolor;"><h2 style="font-size:14px;line-height:16px;color:rgb(29,34,40);margin:4px 0px;max-width:186px;outline-color:currentcolor;">Dietrich Bonhoeffer Was Flamingly Gay--...</h2></td></tr></tbody></table></a></div></div></div><div style="margin-top:10px;"><h3 style="font-size:14px;font-weight:400;color:rgb(69,69,69);font-family:YahooSans, OpenSans, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;margin:0px;padding:8px 0px;"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></h3></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
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</blockquote></div></div><div><br clear="all"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><span class="yiv1316639544gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br clear="none"><div dir="ltr" class="yiv1316639544gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>Richard H. T. Alton</div><div>ICA Global Fund</div><div>The Last Chapter</div><div>United Methodist Net Zero</div><div>T: 773.344.7172</div><div><a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:richard.alton@gmail.com" href="mailto:richard.alton@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">richard.alton@gmail.com</a></div><div>Make Plain the Vision, Habakkuh 2:2<br clear="none"></div><div><font size="2">Won't you be my neighbor?</font></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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