<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">Amen! Dear friend, Bill. Thank you for this, and many other insightful comments you have shared over the years. Fond memories of the time Joe and I spent with your family, way back, when you were discerning your call. Fondly, Marilyn<br><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Oct 28, 2024, at 7:22 PM, <w.schlesinger@pvida.net> <w.schlesinger@pvida.net> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div><meta charset="UTF-8"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">The vice-presidential candidate studied Rene Girard’s work – and betrayed it. He’s taken mimetic desire (I want what I see others having) and scapegoating (if we get rid of ‘them’ we’ll solve our problems, so let us link arms and attack ‘them’) as recipes for victory instead of the driver for and betrayal of innocent suffering that Girard describes. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Trump creates the incredibly powerful tool that ended up crucifying Jesus – and in so doing, disclosed the horror and emptiness of that for the future. And as has been seen, when one ‘they’ has been disposed, the tool must find another – and turns on itself in a cannibalistic process of eating its own. Thus the ‘RINO’ charge.<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Rubbing raw the sores of discontent can lead to this kind of destruction – and in an angry rejection of other values. Attacking it in kind only strengthens the method. Unfortunately, innocent suffering is the only tool that stops it – at cost. Thus the nonviolence movements of Gandhi and MLK Jr. and others…<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">My two cents.<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Bill Schlesinger<o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(225, 225, 225) currentcolor currentcolor; border-image: none; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>OE <<a href="mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;">oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Mari Crocker via OE<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, October 28, 2024 5:06 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Order Ecumenical Community <<a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>><br><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Mari Crocker <<a href="mailto:maricrocker@gmail.com" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;">maricrocker@gmail.com</a>><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Oe List ...] bizarre<o:p></o:p></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Hi W.J and other colleagues<o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">I appreciate your analysis, and would add to your assessment of a “cultural backlash against cultural change” and “the perpetuation of the ancient archetype of female subservience,” the side-effects (like those of a deleterious drug) of "the abused woman syndrome".<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">My sister typifies the abused woman, who continued to submit to abuse by “staying in the marriage for the sake of the kids", and when she shook loose of marital abuse, she submitted to abuse by her sons, who of course learned from the role model of their father. One son did it by direct physical and emotional demeaning; the other by distancing himself geographically and abdicating any “hands-on” support to his mother when she was diagnosed with dementia, save for an occasional phone call.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">However, despite her dementia, my sister cast her absentee ballot for Kamala. Even with dementia she saw the light.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Marilyn<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><br><br><o:p></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" type="cite"><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">On Oct 28, 2024, at 5:45 PM, W. J. via OE <<a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div><div><div id="ydp84878f09yiv8394851414"><div><div><div id="ydp84878f09yiv8394851414ydpc2062d29yiv4060214014"><div><div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">We're in the closing days of the most bizarre U.S. election campaign in my memory. According to Barack, N.C. Lt. Gov. Robinson, the Repugnant candidate for governor, is a self-described "Black Nazi" who wants to bring back slavery.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">I know that one's hard to beat!<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">But it gets worse! <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Robinson will be defeated on November 5, rather than riding into the governor's mansion on the coattails of Trump's predicted N.C. victory.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">But here's what's worse: <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Trump could narrowly win in the electoral college while losing the popular vote.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Or he could narrowly lose the election, refuse to concede, and contest the election by casting doubt on its legitimacy and creating chaos in the electoral college, throwing the election to the House of Representatives.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">The critical voter block that will guarantee either outcome are female Trump voters, almost all of whom are white, and most of whom are not college graduates and are predominantly postmenopausal.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">This raises what is for me a burning question: why would<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>any woman</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>vote for Trump?<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">And especially any woman who could conceive?<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Why would any woman not deeply understand that she is personally under threat the second<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>any other woman</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>is personally under threat?<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">As well as being a member of a large group that is now directly under attack?<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">I just don't get it.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">So, given the racial and gender gap in the American electorate, even if<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>every</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>white male voted for Donald Trump, he would<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>have to lose</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>if every female plus every person of color voted for Kamala. Right?<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Based on this logic, the reality that I just can't predict that Trump will lose is deeply disturbing.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">So I've tried to plumb the mystery of why<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>any</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>female (including my sister, who has voted for Trump twice before) would be determined to vote for Trump despite all the indisputable evidence that electing Trump in 2024 would be disastrous.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">I think it comes down to this:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>a cultural backlash against global change that is perceived as both virtually inevitable and threatening to the survival of their traditional female gender identity roles.</b> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">This perception of a diffuse but global threat to their sense of security in their traditional sense of self can lead female Trump voters to unconsciously self-destructive behavior, in that they can vote for Trump while at the same hating him personally as the embodiment of a threatening male dominance that they have had to put up with in their intimate familial relationships.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">In short, females voting for Trump perpetuate the ancient archetype of female subservience.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">In my humble opinion!<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">So why are any female voters so profoundly stuck in this personal dilemma? Of rebelling against the dominance of a male establishment by voting for a fascist wanna-be dictator who exudes a shrunken and impotent sense of male dominance while he attacks the American Constitution?<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Perhaps those of you who are female can see more deeply into this contradiction than I can manage. <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">The best I can suggest is to place this existential disturbance somewhere in the area of "cultural impoverishment", and perhaps in the category of being "spiritually vulnerable" to what we used to call "brainwashing". And thus resistant to reality-based messages that contradict personal beliefs that are determined by a myth system.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">I invite your responses.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">And if you're a registered voter, don't neglect to vote!<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Marshall<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Finally, I just can't get why any woman in our group would insist on trashing Kamala. Yet here's what Susan Fertig posted on Facebook:<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><457488282_2891520291010734_7975706897851416784_n.jpg><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">P.S. Maybe Trump thinks of the electoral college as another iteration of Trump University! A scam he can manipulate to get what he wants.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><457488282_2891520291010734_7975706897851416784_n.jpg>_______________________________________________<br>OE mailing list<br><a href="mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;">OE@lists.wedgeblade.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;">http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net</a><o:p></o:p></div></div></blockquote></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div></div></div><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span style="font-size: 13px;">CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). 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