<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">Many of us Aussies now identify ourselves with the country of our First Nations community. <div>Me and my three adult family:- </div><div>Rebecca ,Peter, Cathy and their families live on Gadigal and Wangal country. The names given by the East coast tribes to this geography. </div><div>A couple of you have written and asked me what I meant in an earlier note I wrote to you . </div><div>I see this practice as a step in the long healing process with First Nations community. I think Sunny Walker and a number of you also practice this. </div><div>With hope in our hearts, it is part of the world wide and history long process JWM used to discuss- that I like to dream about. </div><div>Isobel Bishop</div><div><div><br id="lineBreakAtBeginningOfSignature"><div dir="ltr">Isobel Bishop<div>Mob. 0412 129 425</div></div><div dir="ltr"><br>Begin forwarded message:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><b>From:</b> Isobel and Jim <isobeljimbish@optusnet.com.au><br><b>Date:</b> 23 July 2024 at 10:39:18 PM AEST<br><b>To:</b> Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net><br><b>Cc:</b> Randy Williams <randycw1938@gmail.com><br><b>Subject:</b> <b>Re: [Oe List ...] Our Future --- as it so happens . . .</b><br><br></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div dir="ltr"><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">Hello folks, <div>Thank you for this helpful and informative exchange. 👋👋 I have learnt about your study groups and Marks for Leadership which gave me courage and hope. Thank you.</div><div>I add my thoughts hesitantly, and would like to affirm Dharma’s comments in particular, which throw a bright light on the Australian perception. ( in my view). </div><div>We experience here a shift in relationships globally. </div><div>Wanda has spoken of shifts she noticed when she was living in S E Asia in the 70’s. </div><div>Australia and I think Aotearoa New Zealand increasingly are cautious about our alliances with the US. Our AUKUS Nuclear Submarines on order are causing deep angst here- </div><div>Australia has good relationships with The Philippines, Indonesia, Pacifica, Papua New Guinea, Timor Leste, </div><div>Malaysia, Singapore, India and Turkey ( and increasingly again the UK). </div><div>China is our largest Trading Partner. Our relationship is back on track there with a change of Government and wise diplomacy. </div><div>We got roped into the Korean, Vietnam, Iraq( weapons of mass destruction ), and Afghanistan Wars- to support the US hegemony. </div><div>My two points are:- Externally:</div><div>a)White western male decisions have cost us dearly- Racism is still embedded in our human psyche in most actions to do with power and War. </div><div>b) Internally:</div><div> Coexisting with that statement is that we all continue to assume other peoples’ assumptions. </div><div>This is the root cause of our long lasting ‘do gooding’ amongst First Peoples in our various countries.</div><div>Thankfully, people around the globe are growing in self understanding that they have their own voice, and want create their own identity and integrity. </div><div>Here in Australia we will never feel peace in our community and national Heart until our First People feel re connected to Culture, Country and Community. </div><div>An interesting ponder for us here is that-: </div><div>For the most part, the many new immigrants from the global south now look to this country as ‘home’ and embody and relate to Australia as ‘home’. Most have come from war and troubled hot spots and prefer calm and the more relaxed style. If the US calls on us to assist them in a War, I am unsure as to our National response nowadays. </div><div>I feel both sober and alert for possibility. </div><div>With love and in hope </div><div>Isobel </div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div> a UK/US commitment. <br id="lineBreakAtBeginningOfSignature"><div dir="ltr">Isobel Bishop<div>Mob. 0412 129 425</div></div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On 23 Jul 2024, at 8:09 PM, Randy Williams via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div dir="ltr"></div><div dir="ltr">Thank you, Dharma. This is the expounding of your original statement that I was looking for.</div><div dir="ltr">Randy</div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Jul 23, 2024, at 5:05 AM, Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="ydp81b458fdyahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:18px;"><div></div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><div><p class="ydp96b5c220MsoNormal">Dear Jim, this is my bid to elaborate on the gaps</p>
<p class="ydp96b5c220MsoNormal">THE PERCEPTION GAP BETWEEN THE WEST AND THE SOUTH</p>
<p class="ydp96b5c220MsoNormal">Walden Bello’s article “Crisis of the West, Opportunity for
the Rest?” that Elsa forwarded is a good context for understanding the gaps in how
the West and the Global South perceives the world. At one time, this would not even
have been an issue. Gaps in perception? Could the “Global South” even have a perception
independent of the West?</p>
<p class="ydp96b5c220MsoNormal">But as Walden explains, with the unravelling of the global
hegemony of the US and its allies, the liberal “rules-based” order has lost its
legitimacy, and many countries recognize it as a system designed to keep them
down.</p>
<p class="ydp96b5c220MsoNormal">ISRAEL: The article describes the US, in its relations with
Israel, as “reduced to a dog being wagged by the Zionist tail”. For
non-Westerners, the racism that drives Israeli leaders is not surprising. But they
puzzle over the readiness of the US to get involved in what is clearly another country’s
genocidal mission to broaden its territory. Why do they do that? And it’s
interesting that American <span> </span>youth seem to have
a different take.</p>
<p class="ydp96b5c220MsoNormal">RUSSIA & UKRAINE: Russia is shown as going after Ukraine
to compensate for the pain of having seen the Soviet Union collapse. The US,
its European allies and Nato are presented as saviours. But in the South, it’s seen
as America’s proxy war against Russia with Ukraine as its pawn. The US regime change
tactics that ousted President Viktor Yanukovych a decade ago, the use of Nato
membership as a bait for Zelensky, and the pressure on him to withdraw from
peace talks with Russia are not <span> </span>forgotten. The US, not Russia, is seen as the
mastermind willing to shed Ukrainian blood to further its ends. </p>
<p class="ydp96b5c220MsoNormal">Attempts to get nations in the South to condemn Russia are mainly
unsuccessful and seen as a bid to boost the anti-Russia strategy. US appeals for
international law against the invasion of a sovereign nation to be honoured
ring hollow compared to US invasions over the years.</p>
<p class="ydp96b5c220MsoNormal">CHINA: In this unravelling, the rise of China, the world’s
largest economy, plays an important part. The US hopes and believes it can contain
it. Nations in the South know this drives the foreign relations of the US and are
unlikely to be taken in by anti-China narratives. They welcome China’s rise as
it has given them an economic boost. At the same time, especially in Asean and
India, there is worry over China’s growing appetite for broadening its borders.
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On Monday, 22 July 2024 at 01:18:24 pm GMT+8, James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com> wrote:
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<div><div id="ydp86561317yiv6612180977"><div>Thanks, Ed; thanks, Dharma.<div><br clear="none"></div><div>Local government and local community, whether bioregion or neighborhood or even intentional communities -- there seems to be an instinctive realization that that is important though how??</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>I did not know about Estonia--or maybe heard of it and forgot. Would it be correct to assume they made a signficant investment in technology to do that? Does most everyone there have online access??</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>To Dharma's point, at least in the US, I feel so self-obsessed with what is going on here that there is little room in my consciousness to think seriously of all the innovations elsewhere. Dharma, can you describe a bit the gap you see between "the west". And the "global south"?? And the places you mentioned --Russia, Israel, Ukraine, China. There is a lot of talk in Herman's study group about recovering indigenous world views and insights re: governance.</div><div><br clear="none" id="ydp86561317yiv6612180977lineBreakAtBeginningOfSignature"><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-size:13pt;">Jim Wiegel</span><br clear="none"><div>
<p class="ydp86561317yiv6612180977p1"><span class="ydp86561317yiv6612180977s1">“We are all time travelers journeying into the future. But let us make that future a place we want to visit. “ </span><span style="font-size: 13pt;">Stephen Hawking</span></p></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div id="ydp86561317yiv6612180977yqtfd96391" class="ydp86561317yiv6612180977yqt1806065855"><br clear="none"><blockquote type="cite">On Jul 21, 2024, at 10:12 PM, Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby@yahoo.com> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></blockquote></div></div><div id="ydp86561317yiv6612180977yqtfd28674" class="ydp86561317yiv6612180977yqt1806065855"><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:18px;" class="ydp86561317yiv6612180977ydp1ed27acdyahoo-style-wrap"><div></div>
<div dir="ltr"><div><div>Hi Jim,</div><div>Related to your question about what innovations, shifts or changes would be needed, I (probably like many of you) am aware of the growing gap in world view between the “West” and the “Global South” in recent years. I see this particularly in Western perceptions of and attitudes to specific nations – Russia, Israel, Ukraine and China, among them. My (?jaundiced) explanation is that those who run the media are eager to keep the “West” in a bubble that shapes how they see the world. For some reason, they are either unable or uninterested in doing this for those outside the West. </div><div>Identifying these gaps and trying to figure out what causes them would help us get a grip on this gap that will surely affect how we as the world envision the future.</div><div><br clear="none"></div></div>Dharma</div><div><br clear="none"></div>
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On Monday, 22 July 2024 at 09:25:59 am GMT+8, James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
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<div><div id="ydp86561317yiv6612180977ydpbbd4451yiv6170915421"><div>Some of you may remember Herman Greene. I am involved in a "study group" with him and several dozen others looking into what kind of governance we need moving forward in this century with all that it holds.<div><br clear="none"></div><div>Just wondering what thoughts any of you might have about what improvements, innovations, shifts or changes in governance, politics, morals, leadership that might produce better outcomes for all of us?</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Thanks in advance. <br clear="none" id="ydp86561317yiv6612180977ydpbbd4451yiv6170915421lineBreakAtBeginningOfSignature"><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-size:13pt;">Jim Wiegel</span><br clear="none"><div>
<p class="ydp86561317yiv6612180977ydpbbd4451yiv6170915421p1"><span class="ydp86561317yiv6612180977ydpbbd4451yiv6170915421s1">“We are all time travelers journeying into the future. But let us make that future a place we want to visit. “ </span><span style="font-size:13pt;">Stephen Hawking</span></p></div></div><div id="ydp86561317yiv6612180977ydpbbd4451yiv6170915421yqtfd42756" class="ydp86561317yiv6612180977ydpbbd4451yiv6170915421yqt0347235160"><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"><blockquote type="cite"><br clear="none"></blockquote></div></div></div><div id="ydp86561317yiv6612180977ydpbbd4451yiv6170915421yqtfd68889" class="ydp86561317yiv6612180977ydpbbd4451yiv6170915421yqt0347235160"></div></div></div><div id="ydp86561317yiv6612180977ydpbbd4451yqtfd07272" class="ydp86561317yiv6612180977ydpbbd4451yqt0347235160">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">OE mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">OE@lists.wedgeblade.net</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net</a><br clear="none"></div></div>
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