<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div></div><div>Margaret,</div><div>Buber has come to be one of my most valued saints, but I don't think I've read this piece by him. Could you summarize his point regarding "of" rather than "about."</div><div>Thanks.</div><div>Randy</div><div><br>On Jun 21, 2017, at 8:39 AM, Margaret Aiseayew <<a href="mailto:aiseayew@netins.net">aiseayew@netins.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)"><!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I would encourage people to consider rereading “Dream of the Earth” very carefully, which represents Buber’s perspective clearly. It was not titled ‘dream about the earth.’<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Margaret<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> OE [<a href="mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net">mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Randy Williams via OE<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 21, 2017 8:19 AM<br><b>To:</b> James Wiegel; Order Ecumenical Community<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: More on The Order<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">The reference to Kazantzakis, Boulding and Hesse are helpful reminders that the crimson line, invisible college, league, etc. has been, is, and ever shall be. I believe the task does not change but the metaphors that hold it do. For example, these days I am less informed and inspired by the image of "upagainstness" and more informed and motivated by Buber's (I paraphrase) "participating in what wants to emerge." The latter is a reminder for me that this is not something we initiated but something ongoing that we are called to participate in. Visioning then becomes, not the imposition of my fondest hopes and dreams on the future, but my understanding of what it is that wants to emerge that I/we are called to be part of.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Randy<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>On Jun 21, 2017, at 7:31 AM, James Wiegel via OE <<a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Does Kazantzakis in Saviors of God, and Boulding's Invisible College also apply? Been reading, charting Saviors, looking at the whole Bultmann paper, Desmond Avery's chapter on God from Beyond Power, also Niebuhr's three responsibilities of the church for society.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal">What are we finally upagainst these days? What is our responsibility? What wisdom on all this do we have to share with the living, the dead, the unborn, not to mention "kids" now in their 40's?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Jim Wiegel<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="x-apple-data-detectors://0"><span style="font-size:13.0pt">401 North Beverly Way, Tolleson, Arizona 85353</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Tel.</span><span style="font-size:13.0pt"> </span><a href="tel:011-623-936-8671"><span style="font-size:13.0pt">011-623-936-8671</span></a><span style="font-size:13.0pt"> or </span><a href="tel:011-623-363-3277"><span style="font-size:13.0pt">011-623-363-3277</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:marilyn.oyler@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:black">jfwiegel@yahoo.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.partnersinparticipation.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:black">www.partnersinparticipation.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">This Is Just To Say<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">BY WILLIAM CARLOS WILLIAMS<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">I have eaten<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">the plums<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">that were in<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">the icebox<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">and which<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">you were probably<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">saving<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">for breakfast<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Forgive me<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">they were delicious<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">so sweet<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">and so cold<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>On Jun 19, 2017, at 19:23, William Salmon via OE <<a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> Thanks John for clarifying what we were and what we are now. Once you are on the "Journey to the East" (Hesse--thank you very much!), there is no going back or getting off. Do you want to know what the current manifestation of <em><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">The Order </span></em>looks like then look in the mirror. Also, there is a growing panoply of Order Saints cheering us on; among them is a little old white-haired man with a stutter--we can find him in Room E. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> Bill Salmon</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:#E4E4E4"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" title="oe@lists.wedgeblade.net">Rod Rippel via OE</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">To:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:jlepps39@gmail.com" title="jlepps39@gmail.com">John Epps</a> ; <a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" title="oe@lists.wedgeblade.net">Order Ecumenical Community</a> ; <a href="mailto:oe@wedgeblade.net" title="oe@wedgeblade.net">Order Ecumenical Community</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Sent:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> Thursday, June 15, 2017 9:44 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Subject:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> Re: [Oe List ...] The Order and Oaxtapec<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black">Thanks John, For reminding us that The Order is a Dynamic that takes on many forms in ways unnoticed and catalytic in society.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:black">Rod Rippel<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> John Epps via OE <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">Sent:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> Wednesday, June 14, 2017 2:57 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">To:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> Order Ecumenical Community <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">Subject:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> [Oe List ...] The Order and Oaxtapec<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="color:black">It has long been claimed that at the Oaxtapec gathering, the Order was called out of being. That assertion has long troubled me, and it seems time to clear the air.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="color:black">IMHO, the statement is both sociologically and theologically inaccurate. A more accurate formulation of what happened in Mexico was that we went from a structured to a dispersed form. Something was definitely dissolved at Oaxtapec, but it was not the Order, only a particular form of the Order.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="color:black">On the sociological side, there is still a lively “we” that once went under the name “Order Ecumenical.” This list-serve and the archives workshops represent some manifestations, but more significant are the personal collegial relationships that persist despite great demographic, cultural, and geographic differences. “We” continue to communicate and to celebrate the life milestones of each other. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="color:black">“We” continue to engage in the mission of catalyzing and caring for those who care – in multiple sectors and with far greater impact than a single organization could have managed. Some examples include the ToP Network, the IAF, ICA community development work in India, Nepal, Australia, and South America, and environmental preservation efforts in the USA. “We” have published a good number of books making insights available to a wide audience. Colleagues could fill out the list. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="color:black">Theologically, the Order is a historical dynamic that we’ve been privileged to participate in. It is not something we can disband, even if we wanted to. Just as Niebuhr described the Church as the “sensitive and responsive ones…” that takes many forms, so also is the Order composed of those awakened and catalytic ones who care for those who care. The notion that some of us could dissolve that dynamic confuses the form from the content (the baby from the bathwater to use a less abstract metaphor). I’ve come (reluctantly) to see that we were led to dissolve a particular structure so that the historical dynamic might continue in an enhanced fashion. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="color:black">Why does this matter? Is it simply a verbal difference having little to do with anything except the neurosis of an old theologian? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="color:black">It matters because thinking that there is no longer an Order prevents us from wrestling with pertinent questions: How can we remain in touch with the Profound Mystery? How can we continue to access our common insights? What rites and celebrations are appropriate to a dispersed body? How can we account to each other and support each other? How can we stay on the religious and secular edge? What (if any) forms are appropriate for the global and diverse participants in this historical dynamic? In a time when hatred and fear of differences is so rampant, what new experiments might make a difference? What might we learn from <u>Journey to the East</u>?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">Collegial comments, clarifications, corrections, and additions are most welcome.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">Thanks for reading this.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">John Epps<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><hr size="2" width="100%" align="center"></span></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">_______________________________________________<br>OE mailing list<br><a href="mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net">OE@lists.wedgeblade.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net">http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><table class="MsoNormalTable" border="1" cellpadding="0" style="border:none;border-top:solid #D3D4DE 1.0pt"><tbody><tr><td width="55" style="width:41.25pt;border:none;padding:9.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank"><span style="border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in;text-decoration:none"><image001.jpg></span></a><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width="470" style="width:352.5pt;border:none;padding:9.0pt .75pt .75pt .75pt"><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:13.5pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#41424E">Virus-free. <a href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank"><span style="color:#4453EA">www.avg.com</span></a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr></tbody></table></div><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><hr size="2" width="100%" align="center"></div><p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>OE mailing list<br><a href="mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net">OE@lists.wedgeblade.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net">http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>OE mailing list<br><a href="mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net">OE@lists.wedgeblade.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net">http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>OE mailing list<br><a href="mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net">OE@lists.wedgeblade.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net">http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></body></html>