<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Thanks Bill Carol and Ellie - such good thinking and I resonate with it all from what I am now engaged  with in my daily life.</div><div>Thankyou all,šŸŽ‘šŸŽšŸŽŠšŸŽˆ</div><div>Isobel<br><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>On 7 Oct 2016, at 3:21 am, Ellie Stock via OE <<a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><font color="black" size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">
<div>Hey Bill and Carol,</div>

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<div>Good to hear from you.  Hope you have a relaxing, enjoyable, and renewing vacation.  Glad you're still using your Greek--have forgotten most of mine...</div>

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<div>Tillich tried to talk about sin in another way other than the traditional "moralisms" of sins with an "s" and talked about the condition of sin as being separated from G-O-D, self, and others,</div>

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<div>One other definition of sin, in light of our cosmic community:  Since life is intrinsically interrelated, connected, and never separated, sin is living AS IF we were not connected, "thereby missing the mark" and experiencing the consequences thereof.  That also means dishonoring the individuation, diversity, complexity and communion that is all of evolving life, </div>

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<div>Ellie</div>

<div><a href="mailto:elliestock@aol.com">elliestock@aol.com</a> <br>
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<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica;font-size:10pt;color:black">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Bill Schlesinger via OE <<a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>><br>
To: 'zbarley' <<a href="mailto:zbarley@earthlink.net">zbarley@earthlink.net</a>>; 'Order Ecumenical Community' <<a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>><br>
Sent: Thu, Oct 6, 2016 10:56 am<br>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Fwd: Re:  THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT<br>
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<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Carol and I are on vacation ā€“ but some quick thoughts:  Weā€™ve stayed kinda sorta grounded in the historical church as the called co-pastors of a small Presbyterian congregation in El Paso while doing the Project Vida thing.  It makes a lot of sense for us ā€“ demythologizing as we go while tying the transparent stuff back to the text (Greek is really fun for this ā€“ ā€˜sinā€™ is actually hamartia ā€“ missing the mark ā€“ i.e. screwing up, and repentance is metanoia ā€“ new mindedness or ā€˜OH, is that whatā€™s going on!).  And getting to be part of peopleā€™s lives at a whole other level, which we also do in PV but not so intentionally.  </span></div>

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<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">So the Word is the indicative (as we always learned again and again), not the imperative.  And in our textual clarity, is embedded in being itself which is embedded in it, so naturally, nothing that comes into being happens without being in/of that Wordā€¦.</span></div>

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<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Anyway, itā€™s all a lot of fun!</span></div>

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<div class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> OE [<a href="mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net?">mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>zbarley via OE<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 04, 2016 10:20 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Oe List ...] Fwd: Re: THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT</span></div>
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<br>
-------- Original message --------<br>
From: Zoe Barley <<a href="mailto:zbarley@earthlink.net">zbarley@earthlink.net</a>> <br>
Date: 2016/10/03 12:41 PM (GMT-07:00) <br>
To: James Wiegel <<a href="mailto:jfwiegel@yahoo.com">jfwiegel@yahoo.com</a>> <br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:zbarley@earthlink.net">zbarley@earthlink.net</a> <br>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT </div>

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<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:black">Yes, I suspect we are all still at it - according to age, ability, and conditions. And such work must go on, even when it is ephemeral.</span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:black">But I'm concerned about Spong's challenge. He would yet attempt to renew the church.  We began the work in the Order of imagining - and practicing - a wholly new liturgy. Is that where to begin? This is not exciting or immediately rewarding work - if ever - and it is not transformational in the first instance.  I do not know who or what group is able to respond. Perhaps the Order is too vested in the community work to now turn back to the church. But I can't see that any such work can be sustained without the Word in some form.</span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:black">Zoe </span></div>
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From: James Wiegel <br>
Sent: Oct 3, 2016 9:03 AM <br>
To: zbarley <br>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT <br>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">How does the beginning of Ecclesiastes go?  Emptiness Emptiness says the speaker, emptiness, all is empty.  What does man gain from his labor??</span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">And, even that "internal strength and depth of belief to create the renewed dynamic in society" seemed to slip away . . .  Bill and Carol Schlessinger are still at it with Projecto Vida in El Paso . . .</span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><a href="http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=123" target="_blank">Jim Wiegel</a>  </span></div>

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<div class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black;background:white">ā€œIf you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!ā€. Joanna Macy</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> zbarley <<a href="mailto:zbarley@earthlink.net">zbarley@earthlink.net</a>><br>
<b>To:</b> James Wiegel <<a href="mailto:jfwiegel@yahoo.com">jfwiegel@yahoo.com</a>> <br>
<b>Cc:</b> "<a href="mailto:zbarley@earthlink.net">zbarley@earthlink.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:zbarley@earthlink.net">zbarley@earthlink.net</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 3, 2016 6:29 AM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">We were certainly aware, first as priors in Cleveland, then as Galaxy pastors in Denver, that the church renewal plan wasn't working. </span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">And with Spong it's no sure thing, despite the ages of existence, that the church wants, realizes the urgency of, renewal today. Yet I have seen the community renewal projects I have worked on all run their course and fade away. The Order had the internal strength and depth of belief to create the renewed dynamic in society that was once called church. I know of no other entity who can do it.</span></div>
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-------- Original message --------<br>
From: James Wiegel <<a href="mailto:jfwiegel@yahoo.com">jfwiegel@yahoo.com</a>> <br>
Date: 2016/10/02 9:40 PM (GMT-07:00) <br>
To: zbarley <<a href="mailto:zbarley@earthlink.net">zbarley@earthlink.net</a>>, Order Ecumenical Community <<a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>> <br>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT </span></div>

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<div class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Well, that is a good and interesting question, Zoe.  And probably many people might have answers . . </span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Here are a couple possible ones that come to my mind.</span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">The Fifth City Project and, later human development projects and town meetings had a lot more visceral excitement for us than the slow work of congregational renewal.  This might have been more particularly true for us younger, non clergy folks who came right after you all . . .</span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">The Local Church Experiment with Galaxies and all did not produce exciting enough results to be sustained, and we never got sufficiently strong and widespread support from the denominational heirarchies to keep it going.  It may well also have been the case that the "risks" that the Galaxy leadership and clergy families in the order and movement sort of derailed their career prospects in Ecclesiastical circles.</span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">God chose fundamentalism and the charismatic approach over existential theology.  I was struck, travelling cross country several years ago, on 2 lane highways, that it seems as though only the conservative churches have had heart and passion to root themselves in many local places.  Music and broadcast christianity as well.</span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">With our focus on "globality", staying within the framework of Historical Christianity became increasingly relative as we engaged in countries not dominantly Christian</span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">In looking at old documents, like the Declaration of the Spirit Movement,  I can see one could say that the primary concern was to address the "cultural revolution of the 20th century", ("renewal of the church FOR THE SAKE OF THE WORLD")</span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Even the contextual documents on the local church describe it as an anthropological phenomenon and not a Christian reality </span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">From a practical (and economic) perspective, at some point, participation in RS-1 peaked and we needed something else to keep the "movement" moving.  While we talked of ourselves as an "Order" -- Religious Order, Historical Order, Global Order,  seems we depended a lot on keeping momentum going.  Sustainability and slowness were less important than Expenditure and transformation.</span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">What is your take on it?</span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><a href="http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=123" target="_blank">Jim Wiegel</a>  </span></div>

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<div class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black;background:white">ā€œIf you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!ā€. Joanna Macy</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> zbarley <<a href="mailto:zbarley@earthlink.net">zbarley@earthlink.net</a>><br>
<b>To:</b> James Wiegel <<a href="mailto:jfwiegel@yahoo.com">jfwiegel@yahoo.com</a>>; Order Ecumenical Community <<a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, October 2, 2016 4:35 PM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT</span></div>
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