<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1475463055194_14677"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1475463055194_14676">Well, that is a good and interesting question, Zoe. And probably many people might have answers . . </span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1475463055194_14678"><span><br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1475463055194_14680"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1475463055194_14679">Here are a couple possible ones that come to my mind.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1475463055194_14680"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1475463055194_14680" dir="ltr">The Fifth City Project and, later human development projects and town meetings had a lot more visceral excitement for us than the slow work of congregational renewal. This might have been more particularly true for us younger, non clergy folks who came right after you all . . .</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1475463055194_14680"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1475463055194_14680">The Local Church Experiment with Galaxies and all did not produce exciting enough results to be sustained, and we never got sufficiently strong and widespread support from the denominational heirarchies to keep it going. It may well also have been the case that the "risks" that the Galaxy leadership and clergy families in the order and movement sort of derailed their career prospects in Ecclesiastical circles.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1475463055194_14680"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1475463055194_14680">God chose fundamentalism and the charismatic approach over existential theology. I was struck, travelling cross country several years ago, on 2 lane highways, that it seems as though only the conservative churches have had heart and passion to root themselves in many local places. Music and broadcast christianity as well.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1475463055194_14680"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1475463055194_14680">With our focus on "globality", staying within the framework of Historical Christianity became increasingly relative as we engaged in countries not dominantly Christian</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1475463055194_14680"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1475463055194_14680" dir="ltr">In looking at old documents, like the Declaration of the Spirit Movement, I can see one could say that the primary concern was to address the "cultural revolution of the 20th century", ("renewal of the church FOR THE SAKE OF THE WORLD")</div><div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1475463055194_14681"> </div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1475463055194_14681">Even the contextual documents on the local church describe it as an anthropological phenomenon and not a Christian reality </div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1475463055194_14681"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1475463055194_14681">From a practical (and economic) perspective, at some point, participation in RS-1 peaked and we needed something else to keep the "movement" moving. While we talked of ourselves as an "Order" -- Religious Order, Historical Order, Global Order, seems we depended a lot on keeping momentum going. Sustainability and slowness were less important than Expenditure and transformation.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1475463055194_14681"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1475463055194_14681">What is your take on it?</div><div class="signature" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1475463055194_14682"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=123" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1475463055194_15528">Jim Wiegel</a> <br><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1475463055194_14683"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;line-height:18.3999996185303px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1475463055194_15527">“If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy</span></div><br><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;background-color:white;">401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353</span><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;background:white;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1475463055194_14684"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">623-363-3277</span><span style="font-size:14.5pt;font-family:'Segoe UI', sans-serif;"></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;background:white;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1475463055194_14685"><span style="font-size:14.5pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="mailto:marilyn.oyler@gmail.com"><span style="color:blue;">jfwiegel@yahoo.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:14.5pt;font-family:'Segoe UI', sans-serif;"></span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;background:white;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1475463055194_14686"><span style="font-size:14.5pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:blue;"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.partnersinparticipation.com/">www.partnersinparticipation.com</a></span></span></div><br><div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1423152614990_64964" style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', 'Segoe UI', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1423152614990_64963"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=10">Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona</a></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1423152614990_64964" style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', 'Segoe UI', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1423152614990_64969" style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', 'Segoe UI', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);">More info on:</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1423152614990_64976" style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', 'Segoe UI', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></div></div><div><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=48">ToP® Facilitation Methods</a> </div><div><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=50">ToP® Strategic Planning</a>: </div><div><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz3mniiYCdI">Mastering the Technology of Participation</a> </div><div><br></div><div><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.top-training.net/">Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule</a></div><div>AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses</div><div><br></div><div><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=203">The AZ ToP® Community of Practice</a> meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://www.google.com/maps/place/648+N+5th+Ave/@33.456329,-112.080545,16z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x872b123a5312512d:0x93c9f71171108956?hl=">648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003</a></div><div><br></div></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> zbarley <zbarley@earthlink.net><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> James Wiegel <jfwiegel@yahoo.com>; Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Sunday, October 2, 2016 4:35 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><br><div id="yiv0278656767"><div>
<div>Jim</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Why did the Order abandon the church?</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Spong's latest sure calls for what began lo these many years ago.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Zoe </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div id="yiv0278656767composer_signature"><div style="font-size:85%;color:#575757;">Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone</div></div><br clear="none"><br clear="none">-------- Original message --------<br clear="none">From: James Wiegel via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> <br clear="none">Date: 2016/10/02 5:14 PM (GMT-07:00) <br clear="none">To: Frank Knutson <f.knutson@earthlink.net>, Order Ecumenical ICA-USA <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net>, Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> <br clear="none">Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT <br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div class="yiv0278656767yqt0662264554" id="yiv0278656767yqt58354"><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div dir="ltr"><span>like what is an example, Frank?</span></div><div></div><div> </div><div class="yiv0278656767signature"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=123">Jim Wiegel</a> <br clear="none"><div class="yiv0278656767MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;line-height:18.3999996185303px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);">“If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. Joanna Macy</span></div><br clear="none"><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif;font-size:12pt;background-color:white;">401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353</span><div class="yiv0278656767MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;background:white;"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">623-363-3277</span><span style="font-size:14.5pt;font-family:'Segoe UI', sans-serif;"></span></div><div class="yiv0278656767MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;background:white;"><span style="font-size:14.5pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:marilyn.oyler@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:marilyn.oyler@gmail.com"><span style="color:blue;">jfwiegel@yahoo.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:14.5pt;font-family:'Segoe UI', sans-serif;"></span></div><div class="yiv0278656767MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;background:white;"><span style="font-size:14.5pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:blue;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.partnersinparticipation.com/">www.partnersinparticipation.com</a></span></span></div><br clear="none"><div><div id="yiv0278656767yui_3_16_0_1_1423152614990_64964" style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', 'Segoe UI', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span id="yiv0278656767yui_3_16_0_1_1423152614990_64963"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=10">Upcoming ToP training opportunities in Arizona</a></span></div><div id="yiv0278656767yui_3_16_0_1_1423152614990_64964" style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', 'Segoe UI', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br clear="none"></div><div id="yiv0278656767yui_3_16_0_1_1423152614990_64969" style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', 'Segoe UI', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);">More info on:</div><div id="yiv0278656767yui_3_16_0_1_1423152614990_64976" style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', 'Segoe UI', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:13px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br clear="none"></div></div><div><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=48">ToP® Facilitation Methods</a> </div><div><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=50">ToP® Strategic Planning</a>: </div><div><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz3mniiYCdI">Mastering the Technology of Participation</a> </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.top-training.net/">Register on line / see the ToP National Schedule</a></div><div>AICP Planners: 14.5 CM for all ToP® courses</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=203">The AZ ToP® Community of Practice</a> meets the 1st Friday, of every month, 1-4 pm, at ACYR, <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://www.google.com/maps/place/648+N+5th+Ave/@33.456329,-112.080545,16z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x872b123a5312512d:0x93c9f71171108956?hl=">648 N. 5th Avenue, Phoenix, AZ 85003</a></div><div><br clear="none"></div></div><div class="yiv0278656767qtdSeparateBR"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv0278656767yahoo_quoted" style="display:block;"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> </font><hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Frank Knutson via OE <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net><br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> Order Ecumenical ICA-USA <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net> <br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Saturday, October 1, 2016 4:06 PM<br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> [Oe List ...] THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT<br clear="none"> </div> <div class="yiv0278656767y_msg_container"><br clear="none"><div id="yiv0278656767"><div>Searching through old documents I found THE DECLARATION OF THE SPIRIT MOVEMENT OF THE PEOPLE OF GOD IN CENTURY TWENTY. I am amazed, at over 50 years ago, how on target it is today. It provides a lot for today’s discussions.<div class="yiv0278656767"><br clear="none" class="yiv0278656767"></div><div class="yiv0278656767"></div></div></div><br clear="none"><div id="yiv0278656767"><div><div><br clear="none" class="yiv0278656767"><div class="yiv0278656767">
<b class="yiv0278656767" style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family:'Hobo Std';font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;"><span class="yiv0278656767" style="font-family:Verdana;color:blue;"><br clear="none" class="yiv0278656767Apple-interchange-newline">"We can't solve our problems with the same level of thinking (or consciousness) that created them."<span class="yiv0278656767Apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none" class="yiv0278656767"></span></b><span class="yiv0278656767" style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-family:Verdana;"> ~Albert Einstein</span><br clear="none" class="yiv0278656767Apple-interchange-newline"><span></span></div></div></div></div><br clear="none"><div id="yiv0278656767"><div><div class="yiv0278656767"><div class="yiv0278656767"><span></span><font class="yiv0278656767" color="#ff2600" style="font-family:'Hobo Std';font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;"><span class="yiv0278656767" style="font-size:18px;">❤</span> </font><font class="yiv0278656767" color="#0433ff" style="font-family:'Hobo Std';font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;"><font class="yiv0278656767" size="4">Frank</font> </font><font class="yiv0278656767" color="#0433ff" style="font-family:'Hobo Std';font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;"> </font>
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