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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">P.s. The church is not a building. The church is the body of people who gather to worship and who live to serve their neighbor.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:16.0pt;font-family:Papyrus;color:#080808">Susan<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#080808"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Papyrus;color:#080808">Susan Fertig-Dykes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Papyrus;color:#080808">(personal email account)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Papyrus;color:#080808"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Papyrus">And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought . Isaiah 58:11</span></i><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Papyrus"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#080808"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Protect against email address harvesting:<br>
Use "BCC" when sending to multiple addresses; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">delete senders’ E-Mail addresses when forwarding.</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:black"><br>
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<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:black">NOTE: I won’t be offended if you ask me to remove you from my emails.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> OE [mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>H. A. Tillinghast via OE<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 20, 2016 11:25 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> William Salmon <wsalmon@cox.net>; Order Ecumenical Community <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Oe List ...] Salmon: prayer reflection<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Bill I also like the quadrilateral. I also contend the Experience is central- though everyone disagrees with me. After all, the Scripture records the experience of the biblical writers and the Tradition records the experience of the church.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Bud<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Sep 20, 2016, at 3:54 PM, William Salmon via OE <<a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Susan,<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><em><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">et al</span></em>,<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> Something to consider. The wonderful thing about our personal experiences is that we all look at the same reality, but we bring to this task a set
of prescription glasses (lenses?) that colors our perception of the reality we all experience. This makes the task a personal one.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> This is why the quadrilateral of John Wesley is helpful. Wesley believed we need to ask four questions about any task or conversation about that
task: scripture, tradition, reason and experience. This provided those who use these four dynamics to be kept from being dilatants.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> The following paragraph will explain this process:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><em><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#555555;background:white">The phrase which has relatively recently come into use to describe the principal factors that John Wesley believed
illuminate the core of the Christian faith for the believer. Wesley did not formulate the succinct statement now commonly referred to as the Wesley Quadrilateral. Building on the Anglican theological tradition, Wesley added a fourth emphasis, experience. The
resulting four components or "sides" of the quadrilateral are (1) Scripture, (2) tradition, (3) reason, and (4) experience. For United Methodists, Scripture is considered the primary source and standard for Christian doctrine. Tradition is experience and the
witness of development and growth of the faith through the past centuries and in many nations and cultures. Experience is the individual's understanding and appropriating of the faith in the light of his or her own life. Through reason the individual Christian
brings to bear on the Christian faith discerning and cogent thought. These four elements taken together bring the individual Christian to a mature and fulfilling understanding of the Christian faith and the required response of worship and service.</span></em><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" align="right" style="text-align:right;background:white"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">(Source: A Dictionary for United Methodists, Alan K. Waltz,<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="right" style="text-align:right;background:white"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Copyright 1991, Abingdon Press. Used by Permission.)</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> I like this and I use it often. It allows me to identify my personal experience, and then to measure my perceptions by the other dynamics; this keeps
me from getting arrogant; the "selfy-age often strikes.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> Weskey said that "scripture" was prime. However, there are those among us who affirm that "experience" could be prime and then supported or challenged
by tradition, reason and the scriptures.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> Thanks for sharing.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> Bill<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">-----------------------------------------------------------------------------</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">----- Original Message -----<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:#E4E4E4"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" title="oe@lists.wedgeblade.net"><span style="color:purple">Susan
Fertig via OE</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">To:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><a href="mailto:isobeljimbish@optusnet.com.au" title="isobeljimbish@optusnet.com.au"><span style="color:purple">Isobel
and Jim Bishop</span></a><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>;<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" title="oe@lists.wedgeblade.net"><span style="color:purple">Order EcumenicalCommunity</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Sent:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Monday,
September 19, 2016 10:56 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Subject:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Re:
[Oe List ...] Listserve on prayer, 2-story universe, etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">If we’re operating out of experience, mine is just different than yours. So, just as I’m not likely to change anybody’s mind on this listserv, none
of the comments here are likely to change mine. I know what I know. I believe what I believe.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Someone actually accused people who believe what I believe of “shallowness” and “superstition.”<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Interesting that in my church of about 3,000 congregants, some of the greatest minds in a city rife with intellect, scientific or from other disciplines,
engage with God in a way you’d all probably laugh about. But of course we are all deficient intellectually in the minds of people who have dismissed this way of looking at relationship with God, and Christ, and the Holy Spirit.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Superstition is avoiding black cats and walking under ladders. It bears no resemblance to my faith.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">My experience of the other world is as real as my hand in front of my face.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><i><span style="font-size:16.0pt;font-family:Papyrus;color:#080808">Susan</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#080808"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Papyrus;color:#080808">Susan Fertig-Dykes</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Papyrus;color:#080808">(personal email account)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:Papyrus;color:#080808"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><i><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Papyrus">And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought . Isaiah 58:11</span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Protect against email address harvesting:<br>
Use "BCC" when sending to multiple addresses;<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">delete senders’ E-Mail addresses when forwarding.</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt"><br>
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</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">NOTE: I won’t be offended if you ask me to remove you from my emails.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">OE
[<a href="mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net"><span style="color:purple">mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net</span></a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Isobel and Jim Bishop
via OE<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, September 19, 2016 10:27 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Jack Gilles <<a href="mailto:jackcgilles@gmail.com"><span style="color:purple">jackcgilles@gmail.com</span></a>>; Order Ecumenical Community <<a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net"><span style="color:purple">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</span></a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Oe List ...] Listserve on prayer, 2-story universe, etc.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Isobel and Jim Bishop</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><a href="mailto:isobeljimbish@optusnet.com.au"><span style="color:purple">isobeljimbish@optusnet.com.au</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Dear Folks, especially Jack, </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">I too am grateful that the list serve is still ticking over! I have observed over the years I have been reading this listserve- that in the summer
months in the northern hemisphere- you all are quieter, and don' t engage so much.. I have always thought to myself </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">that this is because you like to be outdoors, enjoying your summer….? In the winter months when you don' t go out so much, you seem to stay by your
computer more often and write pearls of wisdom….Just my observation from down here in Oz.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Yes, I listened to Joe's lecture and it brought back so many memories. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">I thought he described the two storey universe well. I hope that Susan found it useful. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Nowadays I think what Joe was saying to me-- can best be described as the connectedness of ALL of life- both at the very centre of my life, and
in the cosmos, and in the urban, secular everyday life of connecting with the world and all that is within it. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">… and at the edges too. ...the farthest reaches of the planet. I did notice that the last few words of Joe's talk included ' all of Creation itself.'
This made me realise that Joe was way ahead of his time, talking about Creation….</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">A word about prayer… Some time ago, on the list serve there was some reference to prayer- and Jim Weigel gave a small description of it- as '
leaning to the good'. I don't know if this helps others, but it helped me at the time, and I still reflect on these </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">words. I do feel that good vibes which I empathise about a situation; can bring gentleness and calmness to a situation, be it a person, or a situation.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Enough from me from Leichhardt, an inner west suburb of Sydney. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Jim is well- has just had had both his caratacts renewed, and will be 87 next month. I am 80, and still very active. We do lots of walking and
exercises etc., </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Our daughter Rebecca, a US citizen, will be voting again in your Election, I reckon. It is quite scary from this viewpoint. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">All the best to y'all,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">and with grace, peace, and love, </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">from Isobel. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">On 20/09/2016, at 1:57 AM, Jack Gilles via OE <<a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net"><span style="color:purple">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">There should be a request to share the ability to open. But if you see a ‘download’ arrow, do that and then download the link that allows you to listen to Goole.doc sound tracks. I couldn’t open my post as well,
but I did that and it plays just fine. It opens another window with the player. I hope others find that works for them as well.<br>
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Jack<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">On Sep 19, 2016, at 10:54, Doris Hahn via OE <<a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net"><span style="color:purple">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</span></a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
I tried to access Jack's sharing of JWM on 2-story universe, but it is locked. How do I get in?<br>
<br>
Doris Hahn<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
OE mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net"><span style="color:purple">OE@lists.wedgeblade.net</span></a><br>
<a href="http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net"><span style="color:purple">http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">No virus found in this message.<br>
Checked by AVG -<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.avg.com/"><span style="color:purple">www.avg.com</span></a><br>
Version: 2016.0.7797 / Virus Database: 4656/13050 - Release Date: 09/20/16<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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