<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Do the terms ORID, Art Form Method, and Art Form Conversation come into being as they intersect the triad of knowing, doing, being?<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Bud</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 13, 2015, at 4:48 PM, Jo Nelson via OE <<a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" class="">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">The way we teach this in our facilitation courses is that ORID is the underlying contentless thinking method, and the Focused Conversation is the tool based on it to guide a group to think clearly. </div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class="">From the mobile desk of<div class="">Jo Nelson <div class="">Please reply to<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:jnelson@ica-associates.ca" class="">jnelson@ica-associates.ca</a></div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class="">On Dec 13, 2015, at 1:57 PM, James Wiegel via OE <<a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" class="">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><div style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: HelveticaNeue-Light, 'Helvetica Neue Light', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" class=""><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450032336180_3444" dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450032336180_3444" dir="ltr" class="">A question: Is there a useful distinction between the Art Form Method and the Art Form Conversation?</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450032336180_3444" dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450032336180_3444" dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><div class="signature" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450032336180_3445"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=123" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450032336180_3483" class="">Jim Wiegel</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> <br class=""><div class="MsoNormal" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450032336180_3462" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1450032336180_3461" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; line-height: 18.3999996185303px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">“If you want an adventure . . . what a time to be alive!”. 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font-size: 16px;" class=""><div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><font size="2" face="Arial" class=""><hr size="1" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">From:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>W. J. via OE <<a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" class="">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>><br class=""><b class=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">To:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Janet Sanders <<a href="mailto:janetasanders@hotmail.com" class="">janetasanders@hotmail.com</a>>; "<a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" class="">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" class="">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><b class=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">Sent:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Sunday, December 13, 2015 7:19 AM<br class=""><b class=""><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="">Subject:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Oe List ...] FW: I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday<br class=""></font></div><div class="y_msg_container"><br class=""><div id="yiv7356922214" class=""><div class=""><div style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 24px;" class=""><div id="yiv7356922214yui_3_16_0_1_1449999336064_17587" class=""><span id="yiv7356922214yui_3_16_0_1_1449999336064_17586" class="">There is a paper by Susanne Langer in the Psychology and Art course of the RS/CS curriculum, titled 'Art as Living Form.' It was taught in the Academy (third week). It might have been a handout in CS-I as well.</span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv7356922214yui_3_16_0_1_1449999336064_17588" class="">It is not on the Golden Pathways.<span class=""><br clear="none" class=""></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv7356922214yui_3_16_0_1_1449999336064_17588" class="">Langer's<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i id="yiv7356922214yui_3_16_0_1_1449999336064_18571" class="">Problems of Art</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>is listed in 'foundational works' of the academy curriculum. Her book<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">Philosophy in a New Key</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>was on a longer list as I recall.</div><div id="yiv7356922214yui_3_16_0_1_1449999336064_17588" class=""><span class="">Marshall</span></div><br clear="none" class=""><div class="yiv7356922214qtdSeparateBR"><br clear="none" class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div><div class="yiv7356922214yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"><div style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 24px;" class=""><div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" class=""><div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br class=""><br class=""></div><div class="yiv7356922214yqt3088251980" id="yiv7356922214yqt76800"><div dir="ltr" class=""><font size="2" face="Arial" class="">On Friday, December 11, 2015 8:26 PM, Janet Sanders via OE <<a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" class="">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>> wrote:<br clear="none" class=""></font></div><br clear="none" class=""><br clear="none" class=""><div class="yiv7356922214y_msg_container"><div id="yiv7356922214" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><br clear="none" class="">I sent this out yesterday, but not certain it made it into the discussion. Jan <br clear="none" class=""><br clear="none" class=""><br clear="none" class=""><div class=""><hr id="yiv7356922214stopSpelling" class="">From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:janetasanders@hotmail.com" class="">janetasanders@hotmail.com</a><br clear="none" class="">To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:randycw1938@gmail.com" class="">randycw1938@gmail.com</a>;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:laurelcg@aol.com" class="">laurelcg@aol.com</a>;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com" class="">ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com</a><br clear="none" class="">Subject: RE: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday<br clear="none" class="">Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 08:32:04 -0500<br clear="none" class=""><br clear="none" class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">Hello to all, <div class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div><div class="">In 1971, I took my first course with the EI/ICA called Imaginal Education. I walked into the empty seminar room to get a feel for the space. As I walked around the tables all laid out so intentionally, I vividly remember thinking, "My life will never be the same." </div><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div><div class="">44 years later, I am still in dialogue with the wisdom of that gathering. I was particularily fascinated with with was called the Art Form conversation. At that point the pedagogues talked about it being inspired by Susan Langer's work. </div><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div><div class="">It wasn't until this year that I went looking for Susan's work. I'm attaching and also sending a link for an article of appreciation by Howard Gardner for her work. <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.anthonyflood.com/gardnerlanger.htm" style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">http://www.anthonyflood.com/gardnerlanger.htm</a> She was using art forms to explore the world of meaning. </div><div class=""><b style="text-align: justify; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(245, 245, 220);" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 102);" class=""><br clear="none" class=""></span></b></div><div class=""><b style="text-align: justify; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(245, 245, 220);" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 102);" class=""><br clear="none" class=""></span></b></div><div class=""><b style="text-align: justify; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(245, 245, 220);" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 0, 102);" class="">From<i class=""> Art, Mind, and Brain: A Cognitive Approach to Creativity, </i>New York, Basic Books, 1982, 48-54.</span></b><div align="center" style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(245, 245, 220);" class=""><div class="yiv7356922214ecxMsoNormal" style="text-align: justify;"> </div></div><h1 align="center" style="font-size: 24pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-color: rgb(245, 245, 220);" class=""><font size="4" face="Verdana" color="#990033" class=""><i class="">Philosophy in a New Key</i> Revisited: An Appreciation of Susanne Langer</font></h1><div align="center" class="yiv7356922214ecxMsoNormal" style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 12px; text-align: center; background-color: rgb(245, 245, 220);"><br clear="none" class=""></div><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""><br clear="none" class=""><br clear="none" class=""><br clear="none" class=""><br clear="none" class=""><br clear="none" class=""><br clear="none" class=""><br clear="none" class="">Janet A. Sanders<br clear="none" class=""></div><br clear="none" class=""><br clear="none" class=""><div class=""><hr id="yiv7356922214ecxstopSpelling" class="">Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2015 06:42:34 -0600<br clear="none" class="">To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:laurelcg@aol.com" class="">laurelcg@aol.com</a><br clear="none" class="">CC:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com" class="">ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com</a>;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" class="">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a><br clear="none" class="">Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday<br clear="none" class="">From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" class="">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a><br clear="none" class=""><br clear="none" class=""><div class="">The art form has a lot of similarity to Dietrich Bonhoeffer's process for making responsible decisions: observe, judge, weigh-up, decide, act </div><div id="yiv7356922214ecxAppleMailSignature" class="">Randy</div><div id="yiv7356922214ecxAppleMailSignature" class=""><br clear="none" class="">Sent from my iPad<div class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div></div><div class=""><br clear="none" class="">On Dec 11, 2015, at 12:03 AM, via OE <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" class="">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>> wrote:<br clear="none" class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div><blockquote class=""><div class=""><font size="2" face="arial" class=""></font><div class="">In the mid-80's, Gene Marshall published a binder with different conversation and workshop methods spelled out, for use by<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">House Churches</b>. Think I still have my copy in the garage.</div><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div><div class="">Jann McGuire<br clear="none" class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div><div style="font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: 10pt;" class="">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none" class="">From: Sherwood Shankland via OE <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" class="">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>><br clear="none" class="">To: Ken Fisher <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:kenfisher1942@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:kenfisher1942@gmail.com" class="">kenfisher1942@gmail.com</a>><br clear="none" class="">Cc: Order Ecumenical Community <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" class="">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>>; ICA <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com" class="">ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com</a>><br clear="none" class="">Sent: Thu, Dec 10, 2015 7:04 pm<br clear="none" class="">Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday<br clear="none" class=""><br clear="none" class=""><div id="yiv7356922214ecxAOLMsgPart_1.2_56ab2880-1265-4fbc-86d8-15b1018e395f" class=""><div class="yiv7356922214ecxaolReplacedBody"><div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt;" class=""><div class="">A few notes on "art-form" and ORID conversations...In the 60's and 70's the Ecumenical Institute and its faculty from the Faith and Life community at UT Austin, conducted conversation about the impact of works of art. Notably Picaso's Guernica - impressions of saturation bombing; and the film Requim for a Heavyweight staring Anthony Quinn as the washed up boxer who decides that even he can live his life... The focus of these two conversations was not to teach anything directly but rather to allow the participants of the RS-I (Religious Studies - I seminar) to experience their experience of the painting and the film. As pedegogs we were listening to the participants' responses for their theological views, which could guide us in guiding the following sessions of the 44 hour weekend course.</div><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div><div class="">I'm not sure when we formulated the ORID format - Marylin Olyer should know :-) but I associate ORID with our formalizing of facilitator skills training courses and the manuals for Group Facilitation Methods (now ToP Facilitation Methods) and Participatory Strategic Planning (now ToP Strategic Planning). Personally I think that the earlier titles / branding "GFM" and "PSP" are much more self-descriptive and clearer for marketing purposes. I suppose we could use both: "ToP - Group Facilitation Methods"; and "ToP - Participatory Strategic Planning".<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none" class=""></div><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div><div class="">Happy Holidays to All.../ Sherwood (on the road facilitating workshop on agricultural development in Kazakhstan and Kyrgykstan...back home Dec 18th.)<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none" class=""></div><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div><hr id="yiv7356922214ecxzwchr" class=""><div style="font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" class=""><b class="">From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>"Ken Fisher via OE" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" class="">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>><br clear="none" class=""><b class="">To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>"Steve Harrington" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:stevehar11201@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:stevehar11201@gmail.com" class="">stevehar11201@gmail.com</a>><br clear="none" class=""><b class="">Cc:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>"Order Ecumenical Community" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" class="">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>>, "ICA" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com" class="">ica-dialogue@igc.topica.com</a>><br clear="none" class=""><b class="">Sent:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Friday, December 11, 2015 6:59:28 AM<br clear="none" class=""><b class="">Subject:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Re: [Oe List ...] I heard it on the grapevine, Steve Ediger asked a compelling question yesterday<br clear="none" class=""><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div><br clear="none" class=""><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div><br clear="none" class=""><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div>Me: “Where did the art form methodology come from?<br clear="none" class=""><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div>David McKlesky: “Rudolf Bultman. This is his method of scriptural grounding.”<br clear="none" class=""><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div><br clear="none" class="">k<br clear="none" class=""><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div><br clear="none" class=""><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div><br clear="none" class=""><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div><br clear="none" class="">On Dec 10, 2015, at 6:09 PM, steve har via OE <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net" class="">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>> wrote:<br clear="none" class=""><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div>from the point of view of Imaginal Education and Imaginal Learning.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none" class=""><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div>As I heard it, he asked<br clear="none" class="">Is there a difference between an Art Form Conversation and ORID question - and- someone just mentioned a "spirit question".<br clear="none" class=""><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div>What is the difference between an art form conversation, an ORID conversation, a spirit question?<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none" class=""><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div>Jan Sanders, I know, was recently asked by her teachers and principles at Aruba University why the conversation was called "art form" conversation.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none" class="">It sent her looking back into Brian Stanfield's work and Susan Langer's cultural mythology and meaning making.<br clear="none" class=""><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div>Does someone have a generous answer?<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none" class=""><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div>--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none" class="">Steve Harrington<br clear="none" 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