<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">Dear Marshall, I don’t believe John is "talking out of school.” I’m sure he can speak for himself, but LBGT for our society is a non-issue, it’s over. Gay marriage will be the law of the land. Every day the LBGT community is gaining ground. For the younger generation it’s a non-issue. The UMC is just running into a stone wall. It would be much better if they let loose of the prejudice and got on with the business at hand. Climate Change, poverty, corptocracy, just to name a few need action. I am glad to see our Board of Pensions removing investments from companies that support Israel, but there’s lots more stuff we need to be about.<div><br></div><div>We have a good bunch of local clergy who stand with us who’ve signed the pledge. The “Conservatives” (although I’m not sure that’s the correct appellation) are going to scream their heads off, but time is marching on. For the UMC a real LGBT issue is going to be how we support the gays in Africa and elsewhere and deal with a false interpretation of scripture, discipline and tradition that leads to hatred and violence.</div><div><br></div><div>It’s happening. Reality is staring us in the face.</div><div><br><div apple-content-edited="true">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; border-spacing: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; "><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span style="font-size: 13px; ">George Holcombe<br>14900 Yellowleaf Tr.<br>Austin TX 78728<br>Mobile 512/252-2756<br><a href="mailto:grholcombe@gmail.com">grholcombe@gmail.com</a></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-variant: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span style="font-size: 13px; "><br></span></div><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span style="font-size: 13px; ">"Whatever the problem, community is the answer. There is no power greater than a community discovering what it cares about." Margaret Wheatley<br></span><br></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div>
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<br><div><div>On Jun 14, 2014, at 3:01 PM, W. J. via OE <<a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 14pt;"><div class="" style=""><span class="" style="">George Holcombe is one of the Texas 'rebels'</span></div><div style="font-size: 18.66666603088379px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;" class=""><span class="" style="">Marshall Jones</span></div><div style="background-color: transparent;" class=""><span class="" style=""><a href="http://unitedmethodistreporter.com/2014/06/13/texas-10/" class="" style="">10 Retired Clergy Say They Will Officiate at Weddings of Same-Sex Couples</a><br class="" style=""></span></div><div style="width:450px; font-family: 'Georgia', 'Times', 'Times New Roman', 'serif';" contenteditable="false" id="enhancrCard_5" class="link-enhancr-attachment link-enhancr-element"><table class="link-enhancr-element" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" style="width:450px; height:170px; position: relative; margin-top:5px; margin-bottom: 5px; display: block;"><tbody><tr class="link-enhancr-element"><td colspan="6" class="link-enhancr-element" style="height: 1px; background-color: #e5e5e5;"><div class="link-enhancr-element" style="height: 1px; background-color: #e5e5e5;"></div></td></tr><tr class="link-enhancr-element"><td rowspan="2" class="link-enhancr-element" style="width: 1px; background-color: #e5e5e5;"><div class="link-enhancr-element" style="width: 1px; background-color: #e5e5e5;"></div></td><td class="link-enhancr-element" rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; width: 168px; height: 168px; background-color: #000000;"><div class="link-enhancr-element" style="width: 168px;" align="center"><a href="http://unitedmethodistreporter.com/2014/06/13/texas-10/" class="link-enhancr-card-urlWrapper link-enhancr-element" style="text-decoration: none !important;"><img alt="image" src="http://unitedmethodistreporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/texas10-united-methodist-reporter.png" class="link-enhancr-thumbnail-image link-enhancr-element" width="168" height="126" style="display: block; margin: auto;"></a></div></td><td rowspan="2" class="link-enhancr-element" style="width: 1px; background-color: #e5e5e5;"><div class="link-enhancr-element" style="width: 1px; background-color: #e5e5e5;"></div></td><td class="link-enhancr-element" colspan="2" style="width: 100%; vertical-align: middle; font-family: 'Georgia', 'Times', 'Times New Roman', 'serif';"><div class="link-enhancr-text-part link-enhancr-element" style="line-height:16.5px; background-color: #ffffff; height: 130px; width: 279px;"><div class="link-enhancr-element" style="word-wrap: break-word; word-break: break-all; padding: 7px 20px
0px 14px;"><span class="link-enhancr-element icon icon-shrink link-enhancr-toggle"></span><span class="link-enhancr-element icon icon-close link-enhancr-delete"></span><a href="http://unitedmethodistreporter.com/2014/06/13/texas-10/" class="link-enhancr-card-urlWrapper link-enhancr-element" style="text-decoration: none !important;"><span class="link-enhancr-element link-enhancr-card-title" style="margin: 0px 0px 4px; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: 21px; max-height: 43px; display: inline-block; overflow: hidden !important;">10 Retired Clergy Say They Will Officiate at Weddings ...</span></a><div style="font-size: 13px; line-height: 20px; color: #999999; max-height: 81px; font-family: 'Georgia', 'Times', 'Times New Roman', 'serif';overflow: hidden;" class="link-enhancr-card-description link-enhancr-element">Even though their denomination's policy officially prohibits clergy from
officiating at the wedding of any same-sex couple at the risk of losing their ordination, t...</div></div></div></td><td class="link-enhancr-element" rowspan="2" style="width: 1px; background-color: #e5e5e5;"><div class="link-enhancr-element" style="width: 1px; background-color: #e5e5e5;"></div></td></tr><tr><td class="link-enhancr-element" style="width: 100%; vertical-align: middle; font-family: 'Arial', 'Helvetica Neue', 'Helvetica', 'sans-serif';"><div class="link-enhancr-element" style="font-size: 0pt; padding: 7px 20px 9px 15px;"><a href="http://unitedmethodistreporter.com/2014/06/13/texas-10/" class="link-enhancr-card-url link-enhancr-element" style="text-decoration: none !important; cursor: pointer !important;" target="_blank"><span class="link-enhancr-element link-enhancr-view-on" style="display: inline-block; line-height: 11px; max-width: 179px; min-width: 119px; overflow: hidden; max-height: 13px; word-break: break-all;"><span class="link-enhancr-element link-enhancr-mobile-no-resize" style="vertical-align:middle; font-size: 9px; line-height: 11px; color: #999999; -moz-text-size-adjust: none; -ms-text-size-adjust: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust:none; text-size-adjust:none;">View on <span style="font-weight: bold" class="link-enhancr-view-on-domain">unitedmethod...</span></span></span></a></div></td><td class="link-enhancr-element" style="vertical-align: middle; width: 100px; font-family: 'Arial', 'Helvetica Neue', 'Helvetica', 'sans-serif';"><div class="link-enhancr-element link-enhancr-preview-wrapper" style="padding: 9px 20px 12px 0px; max-width: 100px; min-width: 80px; overflow: hidden; text-align: right; line-height: 11px; max-height: 13px; font-size: 0pt;"><span class="link-enhancr-element link-enhancr-preview-by link-enhancr-mobile-no-resize" style="vertical-align:middle; font-size: 9px; line-height: 11px; color: #999999; -moz-text-size-adjust: none;
-ms-text-size-adjust: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust:none; text-size-adjust:none;">Preview by Yahoo</span></div></td></tr><tr class="link-enhancr-element"><td class="link-enhancr-element" colspan="6" style="height: 1px; background-color: #e5e5e5;"><div class="link-enhancr-element" style="height: 1px; background-color: #e5e5e5;"></div></td></tr></tbody></table></div><div> </div> <div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 14pt;" class=""> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" class=""> <div dir="ltr" class="" style=""> <font size="2" face="Arial" class="" style=""> On Saturday, June 14, 2014 12:38 PM, W. J. via OE <<a href="mailto:oe@lists.wedgeblade.net">oe@lists.wedgeblade.net</a>> wrote:<br class="" style=""> </font> </div> <br class="" style=""><br class="" style=""> <div class="" style=""><div id="yiv4792237228" class="" style=""><div class="" style=""><div style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 14pt;" class=""><div class="" id="yiv4792237228" style=""><div class="" style=""><div class="" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div class="" id="yiv4792237228" style=""><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_25_1397025687604_153" style=""><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_25_1397025687604_152" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div class="" id="yiv4792237228" style=""><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_30_1397010846984_156" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div class="" id="yiv4792237228" style=""><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_63_1396921078248_106" style=""><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_63_1396921078248_105" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_56" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_63_1396921078248_113" style="">Methodism seems to be teetering on the brink of rebellion, confrontation, and schism.You can follow the rapid escalation of Methodist conflict in the following articles:</span></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_56" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_63_1396921078248_137" style=""><br clear="none" style="" class=""></span></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_56" style=""><span class="" style=""><font class="" size="3" style=""><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="" target="_blank" href="http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/06/08/methodists-fear-split-over-same-sex-marriage/10184053/" style="">Methodists fear split over same-sex marriage</a></font><br clear="none" class="" style=""></span></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228enhancrCard_3" style="width:450px;font-family:'Georgia', 'Times', 'Times New Roman', 'serif';"><table class="" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" style="width:450px;height:170px;margin-top:5px;margin-bottom:5px;display:block;"><tbody class="" style=""><tr class="" style=""><td colspan="6" rowspan="1" class="" style="height:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;"><div class="" style="height:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;"></div></td></tr><tr class="" style=""><td colspan="1" rowspan="2" class="" style="width:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;"><div class="" style="width:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;"></div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="2" class="" style="vertical-align:middle;width:168px;height:168px;background-color:#000000;"><div align="center" class="" style="width:168px;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="" target="_blank" href="http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/06/08/methodists-fear-split-over-same-sex-marriage/10184053/" style="text-decoration: none;"><img class="" alt="image" src="http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/dbde5e9ea0cd09494d5f137d56712b491a231800/c=0-891-2364-2666&r=x117&c=155x114/local/-/media/USATODAY/USATODAY/2014/06/07/1402189020000-Methodist-Schism-Hill-1.jpg" width="168" height="168" style="display:block;margin:auto;"></a></div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="2" class="" style="width:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;"><div class="" style="width:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;"></div></td><td colspan="2" rowspan="1" class="" style="width:100%;vertical-align:middle;font-family:'Georgia', 'Times', 'Times New Roman', 'serif';"><div class="" style="line-height:16.5px;background-color:#ffffff;height:130px;width:279px;"><div class="" style="word-wrap:break-word;padding:7px 20px 0px 14px;"><span class="" style=""></span><span class="" style=""></span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="" target="_blank" href="http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/06/08/methodists-fear-split-over-same-sex-marriage/10184053/" style="text-decoration: none;"><span class="" style="margin: 0px 0px 4px; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: 21px; max-height: 43px; overflow: hidden; display: inline-block;">Methodists fear split over same-sex marriage</span></a><div class="" style="font-size:13px;line-height:20px;color:#999999;max-height:81px;font-family:'Georgia', 'Times', 'Times New Roman', 'serif';overflow:hidden;">Evan as more states legalize gay marriage, United Methodist leaders appear at an impasse.</div></div></div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="2" class="" style="width:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;"><div class="" style="width:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;"></div></td></tr><tr class="" style=""><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" class="" style="width:100%;vertical-align:middle;font-family:'Arial', 'Helvetica Neue', 'Helvetica', 'sans-serif';"><div class="" style="font-size:0pt;padding:7px 20px 9px 15px;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="" target="_blank" href="http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/06/08/methodists-fear-split-over-same-sex-marriage/10184053/" style="text-decoration: none; cursor: pointer;"><span class="" style="display:inline-block;line-height:11px;max-width:179px;min-width:119px;overflow:hidden;max-height:13px;"><span class="" style="vertical-align:middle;font-size:9px;line-height:11px;color:#999999;">View on <span class="" style="font-weight:bold;">www.usatoda...</span></span></span></a></div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" class="" style="vertical-align:middle;width:100px;font-family:'Arial', 'Helvetica Neue', 'Helvetica', 'sans-serif';"><div class="" style="padding:9px 20px 12px 0px;max-width:100px;min-width:80px;overflow:hidden;text-align:right;line-height:11px;max-height:13px;font-size:0pt;"><span class="" style="vertical-align:middle;font-size:9px;line-height:11px;color:#999999;">Preview by Yahoo</span></div></td></tr><tr class="" style=""><td colspan="6" rowspan="1" class="" style="height:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;"><div class="" style="height:1px;background-color:#e5e5e5;"></div></td></tr></tbody></table></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_56" style=""> </div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_56" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_63_1396921078248_124" style=""><a href="http://www.christiancentury.org/article/2014-03/time-split">http://www.christiancentury.org/article/2014-03/time-split</a><br clear="none" class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_63_1396921078248_134" style=""></span></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_56" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_63_1396921078248_117" style=""><a href="http://unitedmethodistreporter.com/2014/04/08/conservative-church-leaders-consult-divisions-umc/">http://unitedmethodistreporter.com/2014/04/08/conservative-church-leaders-consult-divisions-umc/</a></span></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_56" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_63_1396921078248_119" style=""><a href="http://unitedmethodistreporter.com/2014/04/02/conversation-good-newss-tom-lambrecht/">http://unitedmethodistreporter.com/2014/04/02/conversation-good-newss-tom-lambrecht/</a></span></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_56" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_63_1396921078248_131" style=""><a href="http://unitedmethodistreporter.com/2014/04/01/good-news-releases-statement-calling-present-state-umc-untenable/">http://unitedmethodistreporter.com/2014/04/01/good-news-releases-statement-calling-present-state-umc-untenable/</a> </span></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_56" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_63_1396921078248_110" style=""><br clear="none" class="" style=""></span></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_56" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_63_1396921078248_140" style="">In the light of the current 'conversation' in Methodist circles cited above, I find John Epps' characterization of the key conflict over the Discipline as a "non-issue" very
puzzling.</span></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_56" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_63_1396921078248_146" style=""><br clear="none" class="" style=""></span></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_56" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_72" style="">If I were a betting man, I'd bet about 50 million bucks that Bill McElvaney, Tom Ogletree, and Bishops McLee, Johnson, and Talbert (as well as many others) would
NOT call 'ceremonies of homosexual union' a "non-issue" for United Methodists.</span></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_56" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16.363636016845703px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_63_1396921078248_155" style=""><br clear="none" class="" style=""></span></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_56" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16.363636016845703px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_75" style="">I agree with John's implied point that at minimum it's a HUGE distraction from the REAL
missional issues that </span><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_82" style="font-size:12pt;">the church should be struggling to address.</span></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_56" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16.363636016845703px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_63_1396921078248_152" style="font-size:12pt;"><br clear="none" class="" style=""></span></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_56" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_88" style="background-color:transparent;">But when I look through the keyhole of this so-called "non-issue" that threatens denominational schism (similar to the
schism over
slavery in 1844), what I see looming are the VERY SAME theological/cultural issues that define the cultural rift (I accidentally typed 'risk'--there's that too!) with the Tea Party radical right wing.</span></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_56" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16.363636016845703px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_63_1396921078248_221" style="background-color:transparent;"><br clear="none" class="" style=""></span></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_56" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16.363636016845703px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_90" style="background-color:transparent;">The 'Good News' contingent is going whole hog to use Legalism,
Literalism, and
Authoritarianism to defrock noncompliant Methodist clergy, retired seminary presidents, and bishops. This is about instilling fear in bishops and clergy alike by using the Discipline to crack down on dissenters.</span></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_56" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16.363636016845703px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_63_1396921078248_218" style="background-color:transparent;"><br clear="none" class="" style=""></span></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_56" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16.363636016845703px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_95" style="background-color:transparent;">So with all respect due to John, I cannot call this a
"non-issue".</span></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_56" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16.363636016845703px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_63_1396921078248_163" style="background-color:transparent;"><br clear="none" class="" style=""></span></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_56" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16.363636016845703px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_115" style="background-color:transparent;">Our profound cultural and theological biases around 'heteronormativity' are as
much of a HUGE issue as our biases around
the racial inferiority of people of color and female submission to male dominance (not to mention the economic imperialism of the "1%").</span></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_56" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16.363636016845703px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_63_1396921078248_215" style="background-color:transparent;"><br clear="none" class="" style=""></span></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_56" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16.363636016845703px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_100" style="background-color:transparent;">I grew up in what had been the Methodist
Episcopal Church, South</span> until the year before I was born<span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_154" style="background-color:transparent;">. That geographic contingent in reunited Methodism retained its political and cultural clout as the lily-white Southeastern Jurisdiction until the Central Jurisdiction was </span>dissolved<span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_63_1396921078248_169" style="background-color:transparent;"> in 1968 as a condition of union with the EUB's.</span></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_56" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16.363636016845703px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_63_1396921078248_212" style="background-color:transparent;"><br clear="none" class="" style=""></span></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_56" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16.363636016845703px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_105" style="background-color:transparent;">I mention this ancient history to point out that the cultural legacy enshrined in the 'Good News' version of conservative southern Methodism is the legacy of slavery and 'White Supremacy' that their white male Methodist ancestors fought and died to preserve forever.</span></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_56" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16.363636016845703px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><br clear="none" class="" style=""></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_56" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 16.363636016845703px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;">Bishop Francis Asbury (whose
name is legendary to this day in western North Carolina) wrote in his journal that on 11/30/1810 he spent the night (and very likely preached in the attic chapel) in the house Jacob Shook built in 1795 in what is now Clyde, NC near Lake
Junaluska.</div><blockquote class="" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; border: none; padding: 0px;"><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_56" style="font-size:16.363636016845703px;font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-style:normal;"><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_196" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_132" style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, serif;font-size:13px;line-height:20px;">Friday our troubles began at a foaming, roaring stream, which hid the rocks. At Catahouche I walked over a log, but
then O the mountains- height after height and five miles over! After crossing many streams and after losing ourselves in the woods
for a time, about 9 o'clock at night we gratefully came to Vater Shucks.</span> </span></div></blockquote><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_85" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_148" style="font-size:12pt;">If you visit Jacob Shook's house today, you can
see</span> <span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_145" style="font-family:Arial;">a handwritten receipt for the purchase of several slaves. After he died in 1837 his house and farmland was purchased by members of the Welch family, who together had about 150 slaves. I mention this to illustrate that slavery was considered economically 'necessary' and normalized</span><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_161" style="font-family:Arial;"> </span><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_158" style="font-family:Arial;">by this part of white
Methodism </span><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_166" style="font-family:Arial;">as God's Will for Africans. Even Asbury failed to object, though he denounced slavery and pleaded for abolition with George
Washington.</span></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_85" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 16.363636016845703px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_63_1396921078248_180" style="font-family:Arial;"><br clear="none" class="" style=""></span></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_85" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 16.363636016845703px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_180" style="font-family:Arial;">In Clyde and throughout Haywood County the
heritage of slavery is almost totally invisible today. The slave cabins are long gone, as are the descendants of slaves who worked the plantations. The county is about 96% white, 1% black, and only 1/2% Native American.</span></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_85" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 16.363636016845703px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_63_1396921078248_209" style="font-family:Arial;"><br clear="none" class="" style=""></span></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_85" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 16.363636016845703px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_197" style="font-family:Arial;">The cultural reality of white male
dominance is so pervasive, normalized, and unconsciously internalized that residents and visitors alike don't even think about it. When they visit nearby Cherokee, NC, they focus more on the lure of the casino than on the hidden-in-plain-sight reality of 'ethnic cleansing' that forced the vast majority of the Cherokee Nation to endure a death march to Oklahoma. Even this tragic history has been reduced to summer theatre for tourists.</span></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_85" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 16.363636016845703px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><br clear="none" class="" style=""></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_85" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 16.363636016845703px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_186" style="font-family:Arial;">Since 1972
United Methodist clergy have been required to enforce the standards of 'heteronormativity' to eliminate what Aquinas called the 'vice against nature', which includes any and every sexual act except</span> <span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_30_1397010846984_148" style="font-size:12pt;">for heterosexual intercourse in </span><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_30_1397010846984_152" style="background-color:transparent;font-size:16.363636016845703px;">the famous missionary position (reserved exclusively for those legally and heterosexually married, of course!). Aquinas seems unconcerned with the fact that 70% of
women can't orgasm that way. Perhaps he was concerned only that women did their procreative
duty, whether they enjoyed it or not.</span></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_85" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 16.363636016845703px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_30_1397010846984_154" style="background-color:transparent;font-size:16.363636016845703px;"><br clear="none" class="" style=""></span></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_85" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 16.363636016845703px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_30_1397010846984_159" style="background-color:transparent;font-size:16.363636016845703px;">Reserving 'holy matrimony' for
certain classes of people makes everybody else's sexuality second class, promoting 'sexual cleansing' in the church.<br clear="none" class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_30_1397010846984_162" style=""></span></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_85" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 16.363636016845703px; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;">
</div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_205" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br clear="none" class="" style=""></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_205" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">The Legalism, Literalism, and Authoritarianism of the Methodist system leads to a Taliban concept of justice that inevitably exacts severe punishment of violators. Methodists exemplify the tyranny of
majority rule with zero tolerance for minority views within the system.</div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_205" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br clear="none" class="" style=""></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_205" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">If your upcoming wedding would be welcomed in a Methodist Church, that's because you are enjoying hetero privilege<span class="" style="font-size:12pt;"> </span><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_25_1397025687604_165" style="font-size:12pt;">(and probably taking it for granted)</span><span class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_25_1397025687604_168" style="font-size:12pt;">.</span></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_205" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br clear="none" class="" style=""></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_205" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">White male supremacy takes sexual privileging for granted. If you owned slaves, you could totally control and manipulate them sexually. You could have sexual intercourse and father 'illegitimate' children with people of color who were coerced or bullied, or who used your sexual interest to acquire personal benefits. Often family members could not protect them. You could invoke 'Racial Purity' to constrain and manipulate white women sexually. You could demand 'monogamy' from your
wife to control her sexual interest in other people, while you ignored that standard in your own behavior. </div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_205" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br clear="none" class="" style=""></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_205" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Now the likes of Maxie Dunham and Fred Phelps simply reflect the mindset of white male sexual privilege. Since Loving vs. Virginia they can't get away with railing against 'miscegenation.' Now their last refuge is their obsession with the evil of non-procreative sexual coupling symbolized in 'ceremonies of homosexual union.'</div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_205" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br clear="none" class="" style=""></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_205" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">And yet John Epps calls this a "non-issue." I say: wake up and smell the coffee, John!</div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_205" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br clear="none" class="" style=""></div><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_205" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Marshall Jones</div> <div class="" id="yiv4792237228yqt25347" style=""><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yqt77931" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yqt12382" style=""><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yqt83327" style=""><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yqt72712" style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yui_3_7_2_39_1396166700975_61" style="font-size:12pt;font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"> <div class="" style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt;"> <div class="" dir="ltr" style=""> <hr class="" size="1" style=""> <font class="" size="2" face="Arial" style=""> <b class="" style=""><span class="" style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> JOHN L. EPPS <<a href="mailto:jlepps@pc.jaring.my">jlepps@pc.jaring.my</a>><br clear="none" class="" style=""> <b class="" style=""><span class="" style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> W. J. <<a href="mailto:synergi@yahoo.com">synergi@yahoo.com</a>> <br clear="none" class="" style=""> <b class="" style=""><span class="" style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Saturday, March 29, 2014 8:14 PM<br clear="none" class="" style=""> <b class="" style=""><span class="" style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Oe List ...] rocking the Methodist boat
in Texas<br clear="none" class="" style=""> </font> </div> <div class="" style=""><br clear="none" class="" style="">Thanks Marshall.<br clear="none" class="" style=""><br clear="none" class="" style="">When I was at Perkins, Bill McElvaney, Bill Holmes, and the late Will<br clear="none" class="" style="">Bailey were the three Dallas "role models" for the forward-looking<br clear="none" class="" style="">theologs. All three were students of Joe. It's good to see he's still<br clear="none" class="" style="">pushing the envelope, though it's a shame that this non-issue takes so<br clear="none" class="" style="">much energy.<br clear="none" class="" style=""><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yqtfd12441" style=""><br clear="none" class="" style="">Quoting "W. J." <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="" ymailto="mailto:synergi@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:synergi@yahoo.com" style="">synergi@yahoo.com</a>>:<br clear="none" class="" style=""><br clear="none" class="" style="">> more Methodist news from
Texas:<br clear="none" class="" style="">><br clear="none" class="" style=""><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="" target="_blank" href="http://um-insight.net/issues-section/supervisory-response-under-way-for-rev-mcelvaney/" style="">http://um-insight.net/issues-section/supervisory-response-under-way-for-rev-mcelvaney/</a><br clear="none" class="" style="">><br clear="none" class="" style="">> Marshall</div><br clear="none" class="" style=""><br clear="none" class="" style=""><br clear="none" class="" style=""><br clear="none" class="" style="">----------------------------------------------------------------<br clear="none" class="" style="">This e-mail has been sent via JARING webmail at <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="" target="_blank" href="http://www.jaring.my/" style="">http://www.jaring.my</a><div class="" id="yiv4792237228yqtfd69407" style=""><br clear="none" class="" style=""><br clear="none" class="" style=""></div><br clear="none" class="" style=""><br clear="none" class="" style=""></div> </div> </div></div></div></div></div></div>
</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br class="" style=""><div class="" id="yqt37933" style="">_______________________________________________<br clear="none" class="" style="">OE mailing list<br clear="none" class="" style=""><a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net" href="mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net" class="" style="">OE@lists.wedgeblade.net</a><br clear="none" class="" style=""><a shape="rect" href="http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net" target="_blank" class="" style="">http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net</a><br clear="none" class="" style=""></div><br class="" style=""><br class="" style=""></div> </div> </div> </div> </div></div>_______________________________________________<br>OE mailing list<br><a href="mailto:OE@lists.wedgeblade.net">OE@lists.wedgeblade.net</a><br>http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net<br></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>