<html><P>I enjoyed the two articles by Mr. Sowell. He raises points which need to be raised. I intend to bring these articles and points to a group of open minded thinkers and then I will see where that discussion leads. One thing I did notice is that in these articles Mr. Sowell does not mention much of "what he thinks needs to be done."</P>
<P>We don't live in the same world that he mentions in both articles. the 1920's and 30's and 40's are gone. The world is even different from the Reagan years. </P>
<P>What I know is that my parents have almost none of their savings left, they both need living assistance, and they gave their lives to something they believed in <BR>AND<BR>in the world I wish to live in and create, we take care of our elders and our children. The United States has been doing a poor job of this, compared to what we could be doing, for a very long time now... pretty much my entire life. We can do better, and I don't care what party you are from or support... standard of Living for elders and children is important.<BR><BR>I will watch the video tomorrow perhaps.</P>
<P>Jon Mark Elizondo<BR>---------- Original Message ----------<BR>From: "Susan Fertig" <susan@gmdtech.com><BR>To: "'Order Ecumenical Community'" <oe@lists.wedgeblade.net><BR>Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] A good reflection on Romney<BR>Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 23:28:37 -0400<BR><BR></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">A couple of interesting articles that may be useful to the discussion.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><A href="http://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2012/09/11/an_economic_plan">http://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2012/09/11/an_economic_plan</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><A href="http://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2012/09/12/depending_on_dependency">http://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2012/09/12/depending_on_dependency</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I have a serious intellectual crush on Thomas Sowell, and one on Congressman Allen West too. The video below will probably be offensive to many on this listserv, fair warning. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
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<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14.4pt; BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><A href="http://youtu.be/2CVK4c2qu3M" target=_blank><SPAN class=yiv1252727860ecxyiv1659144992yshortcuts><SPAN style="COLOR: #003399">http://youtu.be/2CVK4c2qu3M</SPAN></SPAN></A><o:p></o:p></P>
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<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: 14.4pt; BACKGROUND: white" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Here's a link with better quality and an article about it but the captioning in the one above is helpful too.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><A href="http://www.wnd.com/2011/02/266849/">http://wwwwnd.com/2011/02/266849/</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Papyrus; COLOR: #4f81bd; FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Susan<o:p></o:p></SPAN></B></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net [mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Herman Greene<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, September 18, 2012 8:02 PM<BR><B>To:</B> 'Order Ecumenical Community'<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Oe List ...] A good reflection on Romney<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">We have had these “tiffs” before and, if I remember correctly, some also involved Susan. We survived and maybe we learned something.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">We should always show respect for one another, but I wouldn’t suggest any “rule change” yet. From my standpoint, there’s nothing wrong with lively exchanges unless they get chronically out of hand.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Herman<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A href="mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net">oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net</A> <A href="mailto:[mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net]">[mailto:oe-bounces@lists.wedgeblade.net]</A> <B>On Behalf Of </B>David M Dunn<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, September 18, 2012 7:50 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Order Ecumenical Community<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Oe List ...] A good reflection on Romney</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal>On Sep 18, 2012, at 4:56 PM, "Herman Greene" <<A href="mailto:hfgreene@mindspring.com">hfgreene@mindspring.com</A>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I’m sorry, I want to distance myself from this message. What Susan said to me didn’t bother me.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I think I agree with others that this is not the place to carry on a political debate, but it is a place to dialogue. I would be happy to hear Susan’s thoughts if she wants to share them.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal>This passionate little maelstrom that we just fell into is one of the reasons that the 'listserv' technology doesn't serve us as well as the quality of our dialogue requires.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal>The kind of careful and thoughtful clarification of perspectives and search for one another's truth requires something closer to face to face communication (like an online meeting) or at the least, an online shared dialogue space (like a 'wiki' that provides for a stream of comments) where we can see contributions appear in real time and all of the preceding contributions. (Facebook comments are the example of the running stream, but not the example of a safe, private space for collegial dialogue.)<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal>It would be fascinating and illuminating to see of we could discover the images of fact and value (recalling Boulding) that lie behind the different perceptions expressed here about the meaning of this moment in history.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal>David<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
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<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 13.5pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">David Dunn<BR>740 S Alton Way 9B<BR>Denver, CO 80247<BR>--<BR><A href="mailto:dmdunn1@gmail.com">dmdunn1@gmail.com</A><BR>720-314-5991<BR><BR><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
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