[Oe List ...] On Presidents Day in America

Mon Feb 17 13:25:36 PST 2025

and to colleagues in the American Society of Indexers who are obsessed with
the ability to find what's important.

Ronnie

On Mon, Feb 17, 2025 at 3:23 PM Ruth Gilbert <ruthhgilbert at gmail.com> wrote:

> Ronnie,
> Thank you so much for forwarding and making it available in this way. This
> is the closest I’ve come to actually reading Project 2025.
>
> My sincerest thanks to the people at Autonomy Institute 501(c)(3) that did
> the indexing and provides it on line.
>
> The Autonomy Institute is an independent, progressive research
> organisation that creates data-driven tools and policy to strengthen
> democracy and build a fairer economy
>
> Ruth
>
> On Feb 17, 2025, at 11:14 AM, Ronnie Seagren via OE <
> oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>
> Thanks to all for this ongoing dialogue.
>
> Carleton mentioned Project 2025; the whole thing is 885 pages.
> If you want to dive in, you might find this online index helps you find
> what you're looking for. It links directly to the text.
> https://www.project2025index.com/
>
> Ronnie
>
> On Mon, Feb 17, 2025 at 11:56 AM carletonstock--- via OE <
> oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>
>> Happy Presidents Day in America!  As flawed as all people are, especially
>> presidents, I still celebrate all those who have served in that office
>> while also tolerating their misinformed and misguided decisions and
>> policies.  After only a month. however, this current president and his
>> administration have shown us that they will be following the Project 2025
>> playbook and its far-right agenda.  I hope you have had a chance to at
>> least read a summary of it.  It is plainly leading us toward autocracy in
>> America.  I will put up with a lot from our presidents but I draw the line
>> when it comes to tearing down the democratic form of government!  I am
>> determined to hold this government accountable to following the rule of law
>> and the Constitution.  I know many of you are too.  It's going to be a long
>> four years (maybe longer)!  Hang in there!
>> Keep the faith!
>> Carleton Stock
>> Oberlin, Ohio
>>
>> On Monday, February 17, 2025 at 12:58:25 AM CST, Kevin Balm via OE <
>> oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Dear Colleagues,
>>
>> This past week I facilitated the annual Senior Leadership Team retreat (a
>> planning session in reality) for the UN Economic Commission for Africa. I
>> have been facilitating and training various teams in this institution for
>> 7-8 years now and finally got the opportunity to facilitate the senior most
>> team. Unlike with the counterpart commission for Asia Pacific where I
>> started with the senior team, I had to build up to this opportunity. My
>> equivalent of the Ronin story from the old LENS programs is Parker J
>> Palmer’s writings (and short videos), particularly his piece (attached) on
>> “Finding your Soul” from his book “ Let Your Life Speak: Listening for the
>> Voice of Vocation”. I especially like his Quaker metaphor for a Power Point
>> – the Mobius Strip. I pause reading and demonstrate at this point. As with
>> previous groups, individuals in this senior leadership group wanted to have
>> copies of the reading.
>>
>>
>> His “Courage to Teach” curriculum reminds me of our “Courage to Lead”. In
>> fact much of Parker J Palmer’s work resonates strongly for me with OE/ICA
>> teachings. The link below is his take on the Trans-establishment Stance.
>>
>>
>>
>> https://couragerenewal.org/library/hhd-standing-and-acting-in-the-tragic-gap/
>>
>>
>> Kevin Balm
>>
>> *From:* OE <oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net> *On Behalf Of *Bill Parker
>> via OE
>> *Sent:* Monday, 10 February 2025 2:44 PM
>> *To:* Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
>> *Cc:* Bill Parker <bparker1251963 at gmail.com>; Richard and Maria Maguire <
>> richardandmaria at unfoldingfutures.net>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] 1. Re: [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on
>> the dangers of "anticipatory obedience"
>>
>>
>> We need a session on “a path forward”. Our specific experience, context,
>> and process understanding is exactly what is needed now.
>>
>> Bill Parker
>>
>>
>> On Feb 9, 2025, at 6:59 PM, Richard and Maria Maguire via OE <
>> oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>>
>>  Hi
>>
>> I agree with what Randy, Ken and Dharmalingam say to  a great extent, and
>> would like to add something.  I believe that most if not all of the people
>> on this list are in great pain about what is going on now and what has been
>> going on for past many decades and even centuries that have led up to the
>> current situation.  I know for sure that we have been working for decades
>> to support and entirely new approach to society, but in spite of our
>> efforts and those of millions of others, the powerful close ranks and push
>> forward.  We are not alone in having done a lot and also not alone in
>> feeling the pain.
>>
>> To my mind the Trump clique, both the American and international one,
>> would like to distract their citizens from the attacks on democracy that
>> they and others have been carrying out for a long time.  At the same time
>> it seems to me that they would like to push the colonial project on further
>> against the will and wishes of most people.  They have grabbed the
>> positions of power in the media, education, productive industry, government
>> and so much more, and would love to go further.
>>
>> That so many American citizens remain so ignorant of the rest of the
>> world and even most of the rest of their own nation is another great pain,
>> and this continues despite our and many others' significant efforts for
>> many decades.  It's so hard to know what do to that will really change the
>> direction.
>>
>> Yes it is so painful that even though the consequences of "anticipatory
>> obedience" are well known, not least though the events around the Nazi
>> government, that many tend to still do the same probably out of fear of
>> consequences for themselves as well as the pain of having to face up to
>> what's going on and all this again in spite of the dedicated efforts of our
>> selves and so many.
>>
>> Maria and I have been quite grateful to have discovered and using the
>> insights and meditations of Self-Compassion as developed by Kristin Neff
>> and many others.  As I listen to what she says, it is really a practical
>> application of what we have said about the Christ Word, especially, You are
>> accepted, the past is approved, the future is open.  This is not about
>> retreat into yourself, but empowering and supporting yourself and others.
>> If this approach is new to you as it was to us, you can learn more at
>> www.self-compassion.org.
>>
>> To get a view into the long term international anti-democratic strategies
>> of the international political and economic elites, I highly recommend The
>> Crisis of Democracy a research project of the TriLateral commission in the
>> late 60's.  The "crisis" for them was the rising expectation of people for
>> a more democratic society and they outlined a strategy that you will easily
>> recognize has been going on since the early 70's to shut it down. Reading
>> it is like reading the battle plan of the powerful and privileged to keep
>> the world safe for themselves.  It is even available for free online on the
>> Internet Archive
>>
>>
>> https://ia801308.us.archive.org/23/items/TheCrisisOfDemocracy-TrilateralCommission-1975/crisis_of_democracy_text.pdf
>>
>> On a contemporary note, we have become aware of the Atlas Network, a
>> collaboration of anti-democratic organisations funded largely by fossil
>> fuel billionaires, is also useful.  Their strategy is to fund think-tanks
>> around the world, such as the Cato Institute, Heartland Institute in the
>> US and the Institute of Public Affairs in Australia. Their website claims
>> to now have 500 affiliates in over 100 countries.
>>
>> Adam Smith described these efforts over 200 years ago with a concise
>> phrase in "The Wealth of Nations" , *"Whenever these people get
>> together, even for sport or amusement, the public is worse off. * The
>> talk is about how to reduce wages and raise prices."
>>
>> Finally Maria I would like to thank everyone on this list for what you
>> have done for peace and justice in the world, and catalysing awareness and
>> action for so many, in our world, and we have all made a great difference
>> against great odds.
>>
>> Grace and Peace
>>
>> Richard
>>
>>
>> On 10/02/2025 8:01 am, oe-request at lists.wedgeblade.net wrote:
>>
>> Send OE mailing list submissions to
>>
>>    oe at lists.wedgeblade.net
>>
>>
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>
>>    http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
>>
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>
>>    oe-request at lists.wedgeblade.net
>>
>>
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>
>>    oe-owner at lists.wedgeblade.net
>>
>>
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>
>> than "Re: Contents of OE digest..."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>
>>
>>    1. Re: [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of
>>
>>       "anticipatory obedience" (Dharmalingam Vinasithamby)
>>
>>    2. West condones genocide (Ken Fisher)
>>
>>    3. Re: Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory
>>
>>       obedience" (RICHARD HOWIE)
>>
>>    4. Re: West condones genocide (Randy Williams)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> Message: 1
>>
>> Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 01:46:26 +0000 (UTC)
>>
>> From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby at yahoo.com> <dvinasithamby at yahoo.com>
>>
>> To: Colleague Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>,  Order
>>
>>    Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
>>
>> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the
>>
>>    dangers of "anticipatory obedience"
>>
>> Message-ID: <2068938938.10282361.1739065586212 at mail.yahoo.com> <2068938938.10282361.1739065586212 at mail.yahoo.com>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>>
>>
>>  In his op-ed on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience", Masha Gessen presents ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Trump? as a looming threat. Some may see this article as timely and relevant but I see it as part of Western media?s continuing effort to keep Americans in their bubble. >From my possibly recalcitrant point of view from the other side of the world, the Americans are no strangers to anticipatory obedience. Most of them have confronted ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Biden? without a cringe. After electing a warmonger as President who conspired with Netanyahu to make the US a partner in genocide, how much more trying would MAGA be? As long as Americans wail about Trump leading them without acknowledging what has been done in their name over the last four years, they will remain in their bubble while the world looks on with horror.?
>>
>>
>>
>>     On Sunday, 9 February 2025 at 07:31:33 am MYT, Ellie Stock via Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net> <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>  Hi Folks,Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience". . .Ellie?elliestock at aol.com?
>>
>> This op-ed in The NY Times calls on us not to obey in advance:?https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/08/opinion/trump-power-surrender.html?unlocked_article_code=1.vU4.GN6W.UhwJBG0c4Bv_&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Dialogue mailing list
>>
>> Dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net
>>
>> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
>>
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>
>> URL: <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/pipermail/oe-wedgeblade.net/attachments/20250209/fed00768/attachment-0001.htm> <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/pipermail/oe-wedgeblade.net/attachments/20250209/fed00768/attachment-0001.htm>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> Message: 2
>>
>> Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 00:49:40 -0600
>>
>> From: Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942 at gmail.com> <kenfisher1942 at gmail.com>
>>
>> To: Dharmalingam Vinasthamby <dvinasithamby at yahoo.com> <dvinasithamby at yahoo.com>, "O:E Lists"
>>
>>    <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
>>
>> Subject: [Oe List ...] West condones genocide
>>
>> Message-ID: <A607120F-BD98-4F9B-BAD0-2D49805FCEB5 at gmail.com> <A607120F-BD98-4F9B-BAD0-2D49805FCEB5 at gmail.com>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>>
>>
>> https://open.substack.com/pub/charlieangus/p/trump-and-the-destruction-of-gaza?r=18u6j&utm_medium=ios
>>
>>
>>
>>  Jesus wept.
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
>>
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>
>> URL: <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/pipermail/oe-wedgeblade.net/attachments/20250209/0731ed16/attachment-0001.htm> <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/pipermail/oe-wedgeblade.net/attachments/20250209/0731ed16/attachment-0001.htm>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> Message: 3
>>
>> Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 06:58:01 -0500
>>
>> From: RICHARD HOWIE <rhowie3 at verizon.net> <rhowie3 at verizon.net>
>>
>> To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
>>
>> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of
>>
>>    "anticipatory obedience"
>>
>> Message-ID: <3AB29BC2-F90B-4887-8856-103A1D50E042 at verizon.net> <3AB29BC2-F90B-4887-8856-103A1D50E042 at verizon.net>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank You Ellie.  Such an important warning .
>>
>> Love, Ellen
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 8, 2025, at 9:14 PM, Ellie Stock via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> ?
>>
>> Hi Folks,
>>
>> Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience". . .
>>
>> Ellie
>>
>> elliestock at aol.com
>>
>>
>>
>> This op-ed in The NY Times calls on us not to obey in advance:
>>
>> https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/08/opinion/trump-power-surrender.html?unlocked_article_code=1.vU4.GN6W.UhwJBG0c4Bv_&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> OE mailing list
>>
>> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net
>>
>> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
>>
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>
>> URL: <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/pipermail/oe-wedgeblade.net/attachments/20250209/588799dd/attachment-0001.htm> <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/pipermail/oe-wedgeblade.net/attachments/20250209/588799dd/attachment-0001.htm>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> Message: 4
>>
>> Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 07:53:24 -0500
>>
>> From: Randy Williams <randycw1938 at gmail.com> <randycw1938 at gmail.com>
>>
>> To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
>>
>> Cc: Dharmalingam Vinasthamby <dvinasithamby at yahoo.com> <dvinasithamby at yahoo.com>, "Lists O:E"
>>
>>    <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>, Ken Fisher <kenfisher1942 at gmail.com> <kenfisher1942 at gmail.com>
>>
>> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] West condones genocide
>>
>> Message-ID: <E46FE122-5133-4B99-85B4-3354DB9E02EB at gmail.com> <E46FE122-5133-4B99-85B4-3354DB9E02EB at gmail.com>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>>
>>
>> I believe what many are saying about Trump, that his prating on and on about invasion, expansion, etc., including in Gaza, is to distract from his systemic dismantling of U.S. democracy. Trump is much more focussed on ethnic cleansing in the U.S. than in the Middle East. His talk about Gaza has the added benefit for him of reestablishing the bonds between him and Netanyahu. I thought the wry smile on Netanyahu?s face when Trump was announcing his ?vision? for Gaza was revealing. If distraction is indeed Trump?s ploy, the media, in the U.S. and internationally, have certainly taken the bait.
>>
>> Randy
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 9, 2025, at 1:50?AM, Ken Fisher via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> ?https://open.substack.com/pub/charlieangus/p/trump-and-the-destruction-of-gaza?r=18u6j&utm_medium=ios
>>
>>
>>
>>  Jesus wept.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> OE mailing list
>>
>> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net
>>
>> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
>>
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>
>> URL: <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/pipermail/oe-wedgeblade.net/attachments/20250209/0b8da693/attachment-0001.htm> <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/pipermail/oe-wedgeblade.net/attachments/20250209/0b8da693/attachment-0001.htm>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> OE mailing list
>>
>> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net
>>
>> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> End of OE Digest, Vol 155, Issue 4
>>
>> **********************************
>>
>> --
>>
>> <MaguireSignature.jpg>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OE mailing list
>> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net
>> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OE mailing list
>> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net
>> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
>> _______________________________________________
>> OE mailing list
>> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net
>> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
>>
> _______________________________________________
> OE mailing list
> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net
> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/pipermail/oe-wedgeblade.net/attachments/20250217/17c7b85a/attachment.htm>