[Oe List ...] 1. Re: [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience"

Richard and Maria Maguire richardandmaria at unfoldingfutures.net
Sun Feb 9 16:59:04 PST 2025 

Hi

I agree with what Randy, Ken and Dharmalingam say to  a great extent, 
and would like to add something.  I believe that most if not all of the 
people on this list are in great pain about what is going on now and 
what has been going on for past many decades and even centuries that 
have led up to the current situation.  I know for sure that we have been 
working for decades to support and entirely new approach to society, but 
in spite of our efforts and those of millions of others, the powerful 
close ranks and push forward.  We are not alone in having done a lot and 
also not alone in feeling the pain.

To my mind the Trump clique, both the American and international one, 
would like to distract their citizens from the attacks on democracy that 
they and others have been carrying out for a long time.  At the same 
time it seems to me that they would like to push the colonial project on 
further against the will and wishes of most people.  They have grabbed 
the positions of power in the media, education, productive industry, 
government and so much more, and would love to go further.

That so many American citizens remain so ignorant of the rest of the 
world and even most of the rest of their own nation is another great 
pain, and this continues despite our and many others' significant 
efforts for many decades.  It's so hard to know what do to that will 
really change the direction.

Yes it is so painful that even though the consequences of "anticipatory 
obedience" are well known, not least though the events around the Nazi 
government, that many tend to still do the same probably out of fear of 
consequences for themselves as well as the pain of having to face up to 
what's going on and all this again in spite of the dedicated efforts of 
our selves and so many.

Maria and I have been quite grateful to have discovered and using the 
insights and meditations of Self-Compassion as developed by Kristin Neff 
and many others.  As I listen to what she says, it is really a practical 
application of what we have said about the Christ Word, especially, You 
are accepted, the past is approved, the future is open.  This is not 
about retreat into yourself, but empowering and supporting yourself and 
others.   If this approach is new to you as it was to us, you can learn 
more at www.self-compassion.org.

To get a view into the long term international anti-democratic 
strategies of the international political and economic elites, I highly 
recommend The Crisis of Democracy a research project of the TriLateral 
commission in the late 60's.  The "crisis" for them was the rising 
expectation of people for a more democratic society and they outlined a 
strategy that you will easily recognize has been going on since the 
early 70's to shut it down. Reading it is like reading the battle plan 
of the powerful and privileged to keep the world safe for themselves.  
It is even available for free online on the Internet Archive

https://ia801308.us.archive.org/23/items/TheCrisisOfDemocracy-TrilateralCommission-1975/crisis_of_democracy_text.pdf

On a contemporary note, we have become aware of the Atlas Network, a 
collaboration of anti-democratic organisations funded largely by fossil 
fuel billionaires, is also useful.  Their strategy is to fund 
think-tanks around the world, such as the Cato Institute, Heartland 
Institute in the US and the Institute of Public Affairs in Australia. 
Their website claims to now have 500 affiliates in over 100 countries.

Adam Smith described these efforts over 200 years ago with a concise 
phrasein "The Wealth of Nations" , *"Whenever these people get together, 
even for sport or amusement, the public is worse off. * The talk is 
about how to reduce wages and raise prices."

Finally Maria I would like to thank everyone on this list for what you 
have done for peace and justice in the world, and catalysing awareness 
and action for so many, in our world, and we have all made a great 
difference against great odds.

Grace and Peace

Richard*
*


On 10/02/2025 8:01 am, oe-request at lists.wedgeblade.net wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
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>     1. Re: [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of
>        "anticipatory obedience" (Dharmalingam Vinasithamby)
>     2. West condones genocide (Ken Fisher)
>     3. Re: Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory
>        obedience" (RICHARD HOWIE)
>     4. Re: West condones genocide (Randy Williams)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 01:46:26 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby<dvinasithamby at yahoo.com>
> To: Colleague Dialogue<dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>,  Order
> 	Ecumenical Community<oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Masha Gessen article on the
> 	dangers of "anticipatory obedience"
> Message-ID:<2068938938.10282361.1739065586212 at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>   In his op-ed on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience", Masha Gessen presents ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Trump? as a looming threat. Some may see this article as timely and relevant but I see it as part of Western media?s continuing effort to keep Americans in their bubble. From my possibly recalcitrant point of view from the other side of the world, the Americans are no strangers to anticipatory obedience. Most of them have confronted ?The Chilling Consequences of Going Along With Biden? without a cringe. After electing a warmonger as President who conspired with Netanyahu to make the US a partner in genocide, how much more trying would MAGA be? As long as Americans wail about Trump leading them without acknowledging what has been done in their name over the last four years, they will remain in their bubble while the world looks on with horror.?
>
>      On Sunday, 9 February 2025 at 07:31:33 am MYT, Ellie Stock via Dialogue<dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>   
>   Hi Folks,Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience". . .Ellie?elliestock at aol.com?
> This op-ed in The NY Times calls on us not to obey in advance:?https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/08/opinion/trump-power-surrender.html?unlocked_article_code=1.vU4.GN6W.UhwJBG0c4Bv_&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
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> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 00:49:40 -0600
> From: Ken Fisher<kenfisher1942 at gmail.com>
> To: Dharmalingam Vinasthamby<dvinasithamby at yahoo.com>, "O:E Lists"
> 	<oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> Subject: [Oe List ...] West condones genocide
> Message-ID:<A607120F-BD98-4F9B-BAD0-2D49805FCEB5 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> https://open.substack.com/pub/charlieangus/p/trump-and-the-destruction-of-gaza?r=18u6j&utm_medium=ios
>
>   Jesus wept.
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> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 06:58:01 -0500
> From: RICHARD HOWIE<rhowie3 at verizon.net>
> To: Order Ecumenical Community<oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Masha Gessen article on the dangers of
> 	"anticipatory obedience"
> Message-ID:<3AB29BC2-F90B-4887-8856-103A1D50E042 at verizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Thank You Ellie.  Such an important warning .
> Love, Ellen
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Feb 8, 2025, at 9:14 PM, Ellie Stock via OE<oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> Hi Folks,
>> Masha Gessen article on the dangers of "anticipatory obedience". . .
>> Ellie
>> elliestock at aol.com 
>>
>> This op-ed in The NY Times calls on us not to obey in advance:
>> https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/08/opinion/trump-power-surrender.html?unlocked_article_code=1.vU4.GN6W.UhwJBG0c4Bv_&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OE mailing list
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> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 07:53:24 -0500
> From: Randy Williams<randycw1938 at gmail.com>
> To: Order Ecumenical Community<oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
> Cc: Dharmalingam Vinasthamby<dvinasithamby at yahoo.com>, "Lists O:E"
> 	<oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>, Ken Fisher<kenfisher1942 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] West condones genocide
> Message-ID:<E46FE122-5133-4B99-85B4-3354DB9E02EB at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I believe what many are saying about Trump, that his prating on and on about invasion, expansion, etc., including in Gaza, is to distract from his systemic dismantling of U.S. democracy. Trump is much more focussed on ethnic cleansing in the U.S. than in the Middle East. His talk about Gaza has the added benefit for him of reestablishing the bonds between him and Netanyahu. I thought the wry smile on Netanyahu?s face when Trump was announcing his ?vision? for Gaza was revealing. If distraction is indeed Trump?s ploy, the media, in the U.S. and internationally, have certainly taken the bait.
> Randy
>
>> On Feb 9, 2025, at 1:50?AM, Ken Fisher via OE<oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>>
>> ?https://open.substack.com/pub/charlieangus/p/trump-and-the-destruction-of-gaza?r=18u6j&utm_medium=ios
>>
>>   Jesus wept.
>> _______________________________________________
>> OE mailing list
>> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net
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