[Oe List ...] Following up on my earlier "bomb"

[w.schlesinger at pvida.net]

I was brought up in Absecon United Methodist Church, active in both Methodist Youth Fellowship and in college in the Methodist Student Movement.  I went to seminary as a Methodist under care.  I was ordained ‘Deacon’ upon graduating from CTS.  I expressed my interest in social ministry.  The District Superintendent took me for a ride in his car to explain to me that the Bishop would place me in a small church for five years, that I was to ‘keep my mouth shut,’ and after that there would be consideration for social ministry work.  It was then I realized I was called to be Presbyterian (I was in the Rochester House at the time, and the Presbytery determined my reasons for ordination as a Presbyterian were valid, and recognized my ordination as Deacon as a change of denominational affiliation so I was not required to take ordination exams nor was my lack of language training in Greek or Hebrew an obstacle to that ordination).  

 

 

 

From: James Wiegel <jfwiegel at yahoo.com> 
Sent: Saturday, August 2, 2025 2:35 PM
To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
Cc: w.schlesinger at pvida.net; Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Following up on my earlier "bomb"

 

I was never aware of parental visits as a service we offered.  And Bill, were you even a Methodist?

 

It took a summer program celebration at 4750 in 74 or so -- maybe a Cabaret for my mother to relax.

 

My cousin Norm allowed as how our wedding, in March of 71, was the only time he had ever been escorted to and from his car by an armed security guard.

 

Jim Wiegel

“We are all time travelers journeying into the future. But let us make that future a place we want to visit. “       Stephen Hawking





On Aug 2, 2025, at 10:16 AM, Bill Schlesinger via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:



Wow!  I don’t think she talked about that visit with me!  She (and my father) were concerned that my VietNam protests (mild as they were) meant that MLK had made me a ‘Communist Dupe’ as well…!  I always appreciated both of you – and now I have another reason to do so!

 

Bill

 

From: OE <oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net> > On Behalf Of Mari Crocker via OE
Sent: Friday, August 1, 2025 7:34 PM
To: Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> >
Cc: Mari Crocker <maricrocker at gmail.com <mailto:maricrocker at gmail.com> >
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Following up on my earlier "bomb"

 

Hi Bill,

 

I remember when Joe and I visited your Mom — in an attempt to context her about what the EI was about.  She was very uneasy and uninformed and worried about what you were choosing to do with you life.

 

Joe, as always, was so good at assuring and explaining authentically.

 

As I recall, all was well with you being in the EI/OE after that.

 

Marilyn






On Jul 26, 2025, at 5:48 AM, Bill Schlesinger via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> > wrote:

 

I remember that the College House closed in ’67?  I came into the ‘Seminarian’s’ something or other then.  My memory of myself was pretty clueless!  It was an experiment – and there were learnings that were sometimes hard bought in ways we’d rather not repeat.  That said, ‘new mindedness’ in 2025 is recognizing and responding to the presence of trauma in ourselves and our children that came from those experiments.  Fearing that pain as attack on us or what we did is a signal that we’re holding onto an a world of ‘justification’ (a la Bonhoeffer) in ourselves, and that’s a fragile perspective …  Balloon busting even.

 

FWIW

 

 

Bill Schlesinger

Transition Consultant

Project Vida

 <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttp://www.pvida.net/%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1754703287000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw14SpkMf57dJEq9SmoB7yuZ&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754771690000000&usg=AOvVaw3gQifK6uUCwyrcZTUXr-M_> www.pvida.net

3607 Rivera Avenue

El Paso TX 79905

(915) 490-6148 Cell

 

 

 

From: OE < <mailto:oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net> oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net> On Behalf Of Karen Snyder via OE
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2025 7:49 PM
To: Order Ecumenical Community < <mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
Cc: Karen Snyder < <mailto:karen.snyder10 at gmail.com> karen.snyder10 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Following up on my earlier "bomb"

 

I don’t know anyone who would not feel pain in hearing about the negative events of the past that have been rehearsed.  It is hard to know what it means to repent and turn away from those mistakes in 2025. They are reminders of many mistakes we made in our experimentation on ourselves. I have often thought as a community of learning, we were no different than society; we were just the intensification of it. Our community had to create responses to issues just as others in society had to figure out for themselves in their families and communities. 

Around 2022 a Junior High page was created on the ICA Global Archives website in an attempt to share ICA intents, experiences and what we learned:   <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.google.com/url?q%253Dhttps://icaglobalarchives.org/collections/imaginal-education/demonstrations1/applications/junior-high-education-2/%2526source%253Dgmail-imap%2526ust%253D1754099338000000%2526usg%253DAOvVaw0ll1S1wiJcHMHg1xL39B08%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1754703287000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw29Z8AQEGSy7yLTlQwXUZBF&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754771690000000&usg=AOvVaw0fNh5s_sp4fC3DOpZ1Ensw> https://icaglobalarchives.org/collections/imaginal-education/demonstrations1/applications/junior-high-education-2/. I found it helpful to re-read the writings recently, especially the Student House experience.  <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.google.com/url?q%253Dhttps://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21616.pdf%2526source%253Dgmail-imap%2526ust%253D1754099338000000%2526usg%253DAOvVaw1x-UV6j81hKw-gbCLjK4MK%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1754703287000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw0GclSzjr1Jr-9QTcCTjRoV&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754771690000000&usg=AOvVaw3UWHK_DG4lXONAKeiSdJs5> Patricia Scott’s interviews of youth in 1970 are particularly revealing. There are the Student House documents (the  <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.google.com/url?q%253Dhttps://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/8676.pdf%2526source%253Dgmail-imap%2526ust%253D1754099338000000%2526usg%253DAOvVaw2_jNjNvrfSDWNrdXH70zkQ%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1754703287000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw3Ce1XkV6Z5SGhdDKUESskh&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754771690000000&usg=AOvVaw0IYbOZWDG1UvywXcNhd2eM> Manual of Operations (1980) and the  <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.google.com/url?q%253Dhttps://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21911.pdf%2526source%253Dgmail-imap%2526ust%253D1754099338000000%2526usg%253DAOvVaw0dqTGpPQodo7dSrcSwdkcg%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1754703287000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw1X1HlTrtxBNRKq-o3hSO69&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754771690000000&usg=AOvVaw0ATgx6Iswo0pqSwGfz0LdI> Student House Yearbook: Telling Our Story 1981-1982).   <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.google.com/url?q%253Dhttps://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/20286.pdf%2526source%253Dgmail-imap%2526ust%253D1754099338000000%2526usg%253DAOvVaw37vnz71xqX0N3AEfnc30qb%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1754703287000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw1E7mSlQc_8D7muGWEB5GpA&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754771690000000&usg=AOvVaw08dpdPV0CBpdkFHC5bz9iw> Fred and Nancy Lanphear tell stories of three years leading Student and High School Houses 1980-82. The  <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.google.com/url?q%3Dhttps://www.google.com/url?q%253Dhttps://wedgeblade.net/files/archives_assets/21644.pdf%2526source%253Dgmail-imap%2526ust%253D1754099338000000%2526usg%253DAOvVaw1dNUJaNnzPhfNQ_JKWhUz9%26source%3Dgmail-imap%26ust%3D1754703287000000%26usg%3DAOvVaw1NxOrhT2sKFnG_N85B5u0S&source=gmail-imap&ust=1754771690000000&usg=AOvVaw0J0syCgUeNHLDGgQqWWutM> Celebration 10 piece celebrated 10 years of the Student House, July 1983. 

What I most appreciate about these documents is that they acknowledge both gifts and challenges, strengths and weaknesses of years of learning about what it means to care for youth. Perhaps the writings will shed light on the multiple perspectives, intents and experiences of those experimental years.

Peace and love, Karen Snyder Troxel (who interned in the College House in 1966)







On Jul 24, 2025, at 2:54 PM, Mary Combs via OE < <mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

 

Thank you, Shelley, for your sharing and willingness to be vulnerable in expression of your truth. My heart goes out to you for your courage and for that suffering. I have only just joined this list and am so grateful to see this kind of healing interaction taking place. The OE was life changing for me and my family, before, during and after. My dad and mom, Braxton & Marge Combs, were students of Joseph Matthews at SMU/Perkins in Dallas and he visited us many times in California where they moved for their ministry. We were in 5th City in the summer of ‘67, lived in Religious House in San Francisco in the early 70’s, my parents lived in the Paris House while I was in (the first?) Student House in ‘73-74. We left and my parents went back to work in the local church in California. Talk about culture shock! Later, to try to make some sense of it, I attended Academy in Chicago and did a paper on the progress in 5th City for college. My husband attended Academy in Belgium in ‘83. More recently, I was (luckily- thanks Julianne!) found on FB and joined that group list in time to join the 2G reunion in Bloomington. I just got David’s book and am enjoying starting to read it. Connecting with all of you feels like opening a special gift I didn’t realize I needed. So many rich memories! So much to process. 

What I know for sure is this: Our OE founders and leaders and our parent’s who joined created a vision for the future that was(is) so profound and radical and, just the fact they did so, that’s still super hopeful for me, especially considering where our world is now. It is still relevant and worthy of celebrating, but the deep sharing and healing from within that must also continue. The story is still being written! 

Big Love to all,

Mary Combs

Aptos, CA

 

Sent from my iPhone







On Jul 23, 2025, at 10:41 AM, Shelley Hahn via OE < <mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:



It’s been a few weeks since I dropped a bomb on one of the threads here.  It wasn’t my intention to just go silent.  Immediately after my post my attention was snatched by a flooded basement, two sick pets, and the need for some changes in my Mom’s care. (All is fine on all fronts now.)  After that there had been so much rich conversation and dialogue that I felt overwhelmed at the prospect of responding in an articulate and meaningful way; I got paralyzed.  Karen Snyder broke through my paralysis when she contacted me last week to talk about a witness I gave in 1983 (I was 22) about Celebration 10, a Student House reunion/gathering.  After talking with Karen I decided I just need to write SOMETHING, even if I don’t have all my thoughts and feelings sorted out.  I have no illusions that I can tell my whole story in one piece of writing. (Marsha spent months writing her reflections; I think David Marshall spent 20ish (?) years writing “Iron Boy.”)    Today, my only intention is to write from my heart, to tell some pieces of my experience, my truth.  Bear with me if I ramble a bit; if I let my inner critic get too involved, I’ll never post anything. 😊  So … in no particular order:

 

~ Starting with the bomb I dropped a few weeks back … I was sexually molested by the first prior in the house I was assigned to when I was in 7th grade.  I think that person left the Order not too long after that, and I am almost certain he has died by now.  I pushed that experience and the memories down for many years and finally faced them when I was in my late 20s.  Therapy and conversations with the people closest to me helped me process, heal and move forward.  Even so, as with any powerful life experience, the experience shapes one, becomes part of one’s fiber, woven in.  The experience does not define me.  It also cannot un-happen. 

 

~ I live with an interesting paradox at my center.  Unlike many of my 2nd Generation peers, I have never wished I had a different life than I had growing up.  I have many very fond memories from my life in the Order, which started when I was 3 years old.  I have always been grateful for the many gifts that came with that life: community; a big extended family with scores of extra brothers and sisters and lifelong friendships; a global perspective; a trained intellect; a profound understanding of and care about the injustices in the world.  There are many others.  At the same time, there is just as much that makes me sad and angry.  I could start right there—emotions.  The Order was intellectually brilliant … and largely devoid of heart and compassion.  Love is not just a structural approach; it is also a human emotion (and I’m not just talking about romantic love).  From my perspective, emotion wasn’t just ignored it was considered weak, wrong, unhelpful … put down and squelched.  What a loss for all of us.  And to return to one of the central pieces of recent discussion … in my opinion, separating families and not TRULY caring for children and youth was a HUGE mistake.  I’ve always felt my parents’ love and I’ve always loved them powerfully, and when my father died I was devastated to realize how few actual memories I had of time with him before my parents moved to Bloomington when I was 43 and he was 73.  Would there have been hard times and “bad” memories if we’d been together all those years?  Of course!  That doesn't change that I was denied years of connection with my parents.  How sad that at some point the decision was made to take “family” out of “family order.”  There’s a lot more I could say about good and bad, pro and con, but it’s more than I am up to at the moment.  Perhaps the main point I want to make is that acknowledging mistakes doesn’t mean there was no good, no value.  I am a product of all of it.

 

~ Back to my appreciation of our community:  I have ALWAYS been so grateful for my Order family.  I have wonderful memories of SO many of you!  I remember the Marshalls and Hahns all going out for dinner in our VW beetle (yes, there were 10 of us!) one family night.  The Barleys took me in as family and cared for me exquisitely for three months when I was in 4th grade when my parents first went to England.  The Wainwrights and Baileys were my family in Santa Monica, the Averys and Bonnells (before Clare was even a Bonnell 😊) in England.  Alfrieda Wilkins was my guardian when I was in high school and did a stellar job in a difficult role—big sister, friend, mentor.  Martha Laird was assigned to oversee our youth cluster at Kemper when I was 16 or 17 and we all adored her (she got off easy with a fairly responsible bunch 😊).  Bob Rafos was my surrogate dad when I was 18 and largely lost.  Seeing so many of your faces and hearing your words during my father’s Zoom memorial service was the greatest gift I could have received at that painful time. I could go on and on.  I am SO GRATEFUL for this bunch of human beings.  Get ready for the emotion:  I have real love for so many of you.  This is my truth just as much as the truth that I was molested as a child.

 

~ And I have to address this separately:  I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE my 2nd Generation family.  I have a weekly breakfast with Tamara McClelland and Jane St. John.  Yesterday as we walked to our favorite haunt, Jane said, “WE are the greatest gift we got from the Order.”  “We” meaning all of us who grew up in the Order, in all of the different iterations and phases, with all the attendant joys and pains.  She is right.  The love and connection we share with one another is big and intense and powerful.  Three weeks ago my husband and I drove to Chicago for a get together with Mark & Cari (Boivin) Jewell, Pat (Boivin) and Tom Price, David Allan and his wife, Susan, Chris Boivin, and Sharon Rafos.  Chris & I realized we hadn’t seen each other in 35 years.  It didn’t matter.  >From the instant that we all greeted each other it was as if not a week had passed.  We support each other.  We get each other.  We celebrate each other.  We listen to each other.  Our reunions are fantastic. Big love.  And I want to say as carefully and gently as I can:  a big part of why we are so tight is that we get each other’s pain. Many of my peers say we came out as well as we did in spite of the Order, not because of it.  Speaking for myself, I believe it’s a mix.  But I think I can guarantee that none of us feel that the ends justify the means when it comes to the mistakes that were made with regard to how we were raised. 

 

That’s about as much as I have energy for right now.  I mentioned that Karen Snyder contacted me about a witness I did in 1983.  Wow!  Karen asked for my permission to share that piece from the archives.  On reflection, I don’t want to share that without also taking time to do a re-write from my 64-year-old perspective.  Perhaps you’ll be seeing that in the not-too-distant future.

 

A number of you reached out to me after my very short post a few weeks back.  Please forgive me for not responding to you individually sooner.  I do intend to get back to each of you soon, now that my heart and mind have settled a bit.

 

Thanks to everyone for being out there.  Thank you for “listening.”  Thank you for being part of an important dialogue

 

With love and respect,

Shelley Hahn

 

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