From synergi at yahoo.com Tue Oct 1 05:54:32 2024 From: synergi at yahoo.com (W. J.) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2024 12:54:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Oe List ...] What do we know about Helene? In-Reply-To: References: <1203242347.11378563.1727671579132@mail.yahoo.com> <3BAE6C34-9ACA-495C-A6A4-C50CA166D5B3@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <2143233378.1611073.1727787272817@mail.yahoo.com> Asheville disaster:In Booming Asheville, Residents Rethink Their Sense of Safety | | | | | | | | | | | In Booming Asheville, Residents Rethink Their Sense of Safety Worries of flooding had not been top of mind as the mountain-ringed city flourished in recent years as a haven f... | | | https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/01/us/helene-storm-north-carolina-aftermath.html?unlocked_article_code=1.O04.1c3c.Ihp0XwGLvvJt&smid=url-shareRescuers Push Through Helene Debris to Find People and Restore Power | | | | | | | | | | | Rescuers Push Through Helene Debris to Find People and Restore Power In southern Appalachia, blocked roads and bad cellphone service have made it hard to find hundreds of people who... | | | Because Asheville lacks water, power, and cell phone service, I've had no communication with Mary Z. Longstreth and Marcia Knight.Marshall On Monday, September 30, 2024 at 10:24:37 AM EDT, Judy Lindblad via OE wrote: Hello to all from Cincinnati Oh where three large trees fell on our Senior living campus but missed the building. ?Perhaps in line with Larry?s admonition I am finding encouragement in a new series ??American Historia?An Untold Story? and found the ?0ur Common Future? files from 1988 in my archives.? A new resident here also quoted Joanna Macy ?Great Turning? in her recent blog. ? ?Ellen Howie and I also chat weekly for moral support.Blessings to all and thanks for the thinking ahead memories. ? Judy Lindblad On Mon, Sep 30, 2024 at 8:13?AM Judi White via OE wrote: This message on fb from Larry Ward 10 min. Ago from NC.? On Mon, Sep 30, 2024, 1:45 AM Isobel and Jim wrote: Dear everyone,?I am so sad and shocked by this monumental disaster. I feel that Marshall?s words are so graphic my heart is very heavy for all the people in that piece of the geography. ??A lament?from Isobel in Australia.? Isobel BishopMob. ?0412 129 425 On 30 Sep 2024, at 2:46?PM, W. J. via OE wrote: ? No words.MarshallIn North Carolina, Remnants of Helene Become an ?Unprecedented Tragedy? | | | | | | | | | | | In North Carolina, Remnants of Helene Become an ?Unprecedented Tragedy? Thousands of people struggled to cope without basic necessities as authorities searched for the missing, and the... | | | On Sunday, September 29, 2024 at 07:39:41 PM EDT, Judi White wrote: Larry and Peggy Roe Ward live in Arden and gavent connected with anyone yet. What state of the aftermath is Arden? On Sun, Sep 29, 2024, 1:56 PM W. J. via OE wrote: While I am safe and sound, many people in the Asheville and further west are isolated by roads cut off by landslides, bridges washed out, and downed communications networks that have interfered with first responders who can't get calls or reach residents.Major flooding in Waynesville, NC submerged a whole shopping center, including my favorite grocery store and restaurant, under 6 to 8 feet of water, as well as the major road leading there. That's just one example!According to North Carolina's Weather Authority, Asheville is cut off from the outside world except by air, along with several other communities in Western North Carolina. I-40 is closed in several locations in Haywood County, and it is closed in several places near Old Fort due to mudslides.Part of I-40 slid into the river in the Pigeon River gorge at the TN and NC state line, TDOT said. The Pigeon River is flooding to near-record levels along the interstate, prompting crews to close I-40 off throughout. Much the same happened along I-26.Marshall On Sunday, September 29, 2024 at 01:41:01 PM EDT, Lynda C via OE wrote: Talked to Marshall Jones yesterday and he was delighted to have water back on after two days. In Maggie Valley, NC. ??Safe but rather isolated by bridges and washed out roads.? Tried to reach Rob Work, ?but suspect from area news that lots of repair still going on.? Our son jono had seen on FB that Rob and family ?safe.? Our former hometown of Galax in the mtns.? hit with flooding, washed out roads and fallen trees, but all we know of safe.? ?? ? We are so grateful for man restorative efforts were already in place to be of immediate assistance.? And grateful for all those folks who worked helping to clear roads, and the experts who are restoring electricity, and so many groups working on plans to assist in other ways.? Lynda From:OE on behalf of Zoe Barley via OE Date: Saturday, September 28, 2024 at 12:21?PM To: Order Ecumenical Community Cc: zbarley at earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] What do we know about Helene? Sent using myEarthLink On Sat Sep 28 04:17:54 MDT 2024 Judi White via OE wrote: Walters are safe. They are 30 mis. In from the coast. Asheville gor heavy floods - hopefully colleagues there are on hills, including Larry and Peggy. East Coast experienced tropical storm.? ? ? On Sat, Sep 28, 2024, 3:26 AM Isobel and Jim via OE < oe at lists.wedgeblade.net > wrote: Thank you for keeping us in touch with this. We?ll be grateful to hear of Rob and his family and Marshall- all we ?hope, are safe. ?? Isobel? ? ? Isobel Bishop Mob. ? 0412 129 425 On 28 Sep 2024, at 12:46?PM, Bill Parker via OE < oe at lists.wedgeblade.net > wrote: ?Thanks for the reports and we are relieve you were spared from major damage. Randy, Ellen, and Lynda, it?s good to hear from you and does anyone know about Rob or Marshall? What about Penny Portman? Are you ok, Penny? What about other colleagues affected by this massive storm?? Bill Parker? ? On Sep 27, 2024, at 8:11 PM, Lynda C via OE < oe at lists.wedgeblade.net > wrote: ? Davidson, NC, north of Charlotte, checking in.? The Cock family is high and dry. ? Lots of heavy rain and high winds, but our area seems to be ok.? Over 1 million people in Mecklenburg Co. without power, but we didn?t lose ours.? ?Davidson is the northern edge of Mecklenburg County which is predominately Charlotte.? With all the warnings, we had a bag packed In case of tree/roof ?damage .? Asheville is about 3 hours west of us, but its mountains and creeks and rivers were greatly impacted.? Swannanoa, which was named in the news clips I saw, ?is where Rob Work lives.? ?Marshall Jones may be in Maggie Valley, near Asheville in those same mountains.? Our college grandchildren near Raleigh and Burlington checked in ok.? Heard from Mary Lou Vergara near Raleigh who was checking in on us.? ? Grateful for the many warnings sent out prior to the storm that reminded us to be prepared for this. ??Thankful for the service workers in place throughout the south and coming from the north to help with downed lines, etc.? ? Thanks, Bill and Mary Lou, for checking on us.? ? Lynda and John Cock ? ? From:OE < oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net > on behalf of Randy Williams via OE < oe at lists.wedgeblade.net > Date: Friday, September 27, 2024 at 6:19?PM To: Order Ecumenical Community < oe at lists.wedgeblade.net > Cc: Randy Williams < randycw1938 at gmail.com > Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] What do we know about Helene? We?re about 3 miles from the beach but high enough above sea level that the storm surge didn?t get to us. So we?re safe and no property damage. The barrier islands west of us, as in Clearwater Beach and St. Pete Beach, are devastated and inaccessible. Randy Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 27, 2024, at 5:53?PM, RICHARD HOWIE via OE < oe at lists.wedgeblade.net > wrote: > > ?High winds amid our huge trees here in Clemson Downs, but no loss of electricity. > Grace and Peace, > Ellen Howie > > Sent from my iPad > >> On Sep 27, 2024, at 5:15 PM, Bill Parker via OE < oe at lists.wedgeblade.net > wrote: >> >> ?How are those of you caught in the floods and storms? Rob, are you ok in Ashville? What about you in Florida and Georgia? >> >> Bill Parker >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OE mailing list >> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.wedgeblade.net%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Foe-wedgeblade.net&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9983ccfcfd78454349a608dcdf42708e%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638630723647607366%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=oNLn6mNiV9jofs5WfjJ0YDy35Ol6ravpKNzR50YCLpo%3D&reserved=0 > > _______________________________________________ > OE mailing list > OE at lists.wedgeblade.net > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.wedgeblade.net%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Foe-wedgeblade.net&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9983ccfcfd78454349a608dcdf42708e%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638630723647625490%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=grI0I6mXitQ0Z2ADocoSjDmpw0YxSrGmirKN1MVOT2c%3D&reserved=0 _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE at lists.wedgeblade.net ? https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.wedgeblade.net%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Foe-wedgeblade.net&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9983ccfcfd78454349a608dcdf42708e%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638630723647633290%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=0cugXRJiU9GkxBtnsX4klzF68wu0JxEZFKfvOuzT4F0%3D&reserved=0 _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE at lists.wedgeblade.net ? http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net ? _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE at lists.wedgeblade.net ? http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net ? _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE at lists.wedgeblade.net ? http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net ? _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE at lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE at lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE at lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE at lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE at lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From diannegreenwald at yahoo.com Tue Oct 1 06:14:56 2024 From: diannegreenwald at yahoo.com (Dianne Greenwald) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2024 07:14:56 -0600 Subject: [Oe List ...] What do we know about Helene? In-Reply-To: <2143233378.1611073.1727787272817@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2143233378.1611073.1727787272817@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <790A7B33-2D7E-4B82-808B-87F0DE155DFC@yahoo.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From synergi at yahoo.com Tue Oct 1 11:26:32 2024 From: synergi at yahoo.com (W. J.) Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2024 18:26:32 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Oe List ...] What do we know about Helene? In-Reply-To: <27D42B02-0940-44DA-BA8B-628E443E6969@ehcaperton.com> References: <1203242347.11378563.1727671579132@mail.yahoo.com> <3BAE6C34-9ACA-495C-A6A4-C50CA166D5B3@optusnet.com.au> <2143233378.1611073.1727787272817@mail.yahoo.com> <27D42B02-0940-44DA-BA8B-628E443E6969@ehcaperton.com> Message-ID: <648259195.12071746.1727807192519@mail.yahoo.com> Update: after an hour's conversation with Mary Z., here's the very short version. They live at Brooks Howell Home, a UM senior facility for retired missionaries in Asheville that is surviving and caring for their most medically vulnerably members with emergency generated electricity, no refrigeration, improvised meals, rationed drinking water, no city water, toilets flushed with water from their swimming pool, no internet, and very limited cell phone service. Theirs is a very resilient and highly motivated senior community that knows how to make do and care for one another.Marshall On Tuesday, October 1, 2024 at 11:37:18 AM EDT, Elizabeth Caperton wrote: Eileen Howard has heard from Mary Z and Marcia. They are ok. Without electricity and water but have a generator.?Elizabeth Caperton Sent from my iPhone On Oct 1, 2024, at 8:54?AM, W. J. via OE wrote: ?Asheville disaster:In Booming Asheville, Residents Rethink Their Sense of Safety | | | | | | | | | | | In Booming Asheville, Residents Rethink Their Sense of Safety Worries of flooding had not been top of mind as the mountain-ringed city flourished in recent years as a haven f... | | | https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/01/us/helene-storm-north-carolina-aftermath.html?unlocked_article_code=1.O04.1c3c.Ihp0XwGLvvJt&smid=url-shareRescuers Push Through Helene Debris to Find People and Restore Power | | | | | | | | | | | Rescuers Push Through Helene Debris to Find People and Restore Power In southern Appalachia, blocked roads and bad cellphone service have made it hard to find hundreds of people who... | | | Because Asheville lacks water, power, and cell phone service, I've had no communication with Mary Z. Longstreth and Marcia Knight.Marshall On Monday, September 30, 2024 at 10:24:37 AM EDT, Judy Lindblad via OE wrote: Hello to all from Cincinnati Oh where three large trees fell on our Senior living campus but missed the building. ?Perhaps in line with Larry?s admonition I am finding encouragement in a new series ??American Historia?An Untold Story? and found the ?0ur Common Future? files from 1988 in my archives.? A new resident here also quoted Joanna Macy ?Great Turning? in her recent blog. ? ?Ellen Howie and I also chat weekly for moral support.Blessings to all and thanks for the thinking ahead memories. ? Judy Lindblad On Mon, Sep 30, 2024 at 8:13?AM Judi White via OE wrote: This message on fb from Larry Ward 10 min. Ago from NC.? On Mon, Sep 30, 2024, 1:45 AM Isobel and Jim wrote: Dear everyone,?I am so sad and shocked by this monumental disaster. I feel that Marshall?s words are so graphic my heart is very heavy for all the people in that piece of the geography. ??A lament?from Isobel in Australia.? Isobel BishopMob. ?0412 129 425 On 30 Sep 2024, at 2:46?PM, W. J. via OE wrote: ?No words.MarshallIn North Carolina, Remnants of Helene Become an ?Unprecedented Tragedy? | | | | | | | | | | | In North Carolina, Remnants of Helene Become an ?Unprecedented Tragedy? Thousands of people struggled to cope without basic necessities as authorities searched for the missing, and the... | | | On Sunday, September 29, 2024 at 07:39:41 PM EDT, Judi White wrote: Larry and Peggy Roe Ward live in Arden and gavent connected with anyone yet. What state of the aftermath is Arden? On Sun, Sep 29, 2024, 1:56 PM W. J. via OE wrote: While I am safe and sound, many people in the Asheville and further west are isolated by roads cut off by landslides, bridges washed out, and downed communications networks that have interfered with first responders who can't get calls or reach residents.Major flooding in Waynesville, NC submerged a whole shopping center, including my favorite grocery store and restaurant, under 6 to 8 feet of water, as well as the major road leading there. That's just one example!According to North Carolina's Weather Authority, Asheville is cut off from the outside world except by air, along with several other communities in Western North Carolina. I-40 is closed in several locations in Haywood County, and it is closed in several places near Old Fort due to mudslides.Part of I-40 slid into the river in the Pigeon River gorge at the TN and NC state line, TDOT said. The Pigeon River is flooding to near-record levels along the interstate, prompting crews to close I-40 off throughout. Much the same happened along I-26.Marshall On Sunday, September 29, 2024 at 01:41:01 PM EDT, Lynda C via OE wrote: Talked to Marshall Jones yesterday and he was delighted to have water back on after two days. In Maggie Valley, NC. ??Safe but rather isolated by bridges and washed out roads.? Tried to reach Rob Work, ?but suspect from area news that lots of repair still going on.? Our son jono had seen on FB that Rob and family ?safe.? Our former hometown of Galax in the mtns.? hit with flooding, washed out roads and fallen trees, but all we know of safe.? ?? ? We are so grateful for man restorative efforts were already in place to be of immediate assistance.? And grateful for all those folks who worked helping to clear roads, and the experts who are restoring electricity, and so many groups working on plans to assist in other ways.? Lynda From:OE on behalf of Zoe Barley via OE Date: Saturday, September 28, 2024 at 12:21?PM To: Order Ecumenical Community Cc: zbarley at earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] What do we know about Helene? Sent using myEarthLink On Sat Sep 28 04:17:54 MDT 2024 Judi White via OE wrote: Walters are safe. They are 30 mis. In from the coast. Asheville gor heavy floods - hopefully colleagues there are on hills, including Larry and Peggy. East Coast experienced tropical storm.? ? ? On Sat, Sep 28, 2024, 3:26 AM Isobel and Jim via OE < oe at lists.wedgeblade.net > wrote: Thank you for keeping us in touch with this. We?ll be grateful to hear of Rob and his family and Marshall- all we ?hope, are safe. ?? Isobel? ? ? Isobel Bishop Mob. ? 0412 129 425 On 28 Sep 2024, at 12:46?PM, Bill Parker via OE < oe at lists.wedgeblade.net > wrote: ?Thanks for the reports and we are relieve you were spared from major damage. Randy, Ellen, and Lynda, it?s good to hear from you and does anyone know about Rob or Marshall? What about Penny Portman? Are you ok, Penny? What about other colleagues affected by this massive storm?? Bill Parker? ? On Sep 27, 2024, at 8:11 PM, Lynda C via OE < oe at lists.wedgeblade.net > wrote: ? Davidson, NC, north of Charlotte, checking in.? The Cock family is high and dry. ? Lots of heavy rain and high winds, but our area seems to be ok.? Over 1 million people in Mecklenburg Co. without power, but we didn?t lose ours.? ?Davidson is the northern edge of Mecklenburg County which is predominately Charlotte.? With all the warnings, we had a bag packed In case of tree/roof ?damage .? Asheville is about 3 hours west of us, but its mountains and creeks and rivers were greatly impacted.? Swannanoa, which was named in the news clips I saw, ?is where Rob Work lives.? ?Marshall Jones may be in Maggie Valley, near Asheville in those same mountains.? Our college grandchildren near Raleigh and Burlington checked in ok.? Heard from Mary Lou Vergara near Raleigh who was checking in on us.? ? Grateful for the many warnings sent out prior to the storm that reminded us to be prepared for this. ??Thankful for the service workers in place throughout the south and coming from the north to help with downed lines, etc.? ? Thanks, Bill and Mary Lou, for checking on us.? ? Lynda and John Cock ? ? From:OE < oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net > on behalf of Randy Williams via OE < oe at lists.wedgeblade.net > Date: Friday, September 27, 2024 at 6:19?PM To: Order Ecumenical Community < oe at lists.wedgeblade.net > Cc: Randy Williams < randycw1938 at gmail.com > Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] What do we know about Helene? We?re about 3 miles from the beach but high enough above sea level that the storm surge didn?t get to us. So we?re safe and no property damage. The barrier islands west of us, as in Clearwater Beach and St. Pete Beach, are devastated and inaccessible. Randy Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 27, 2024, at 5:53?PM, RICHARD HOWIE via OE < oe at lists.wedgeblade.net > wrote: > > ?High winds amid our huge trees here in Clemson Downs, but no loss of electricity. > Grace and Peace, > Ellen Howie > > Sent from my iPad > >> On Sep 27, 2024, at 5:15 PM, Bill Parker via OE < oe at lists.wedgeblade.net > wrote: >> >> ?How are those of you caught in the floods and storms? Rob, are you ok in Ashville? What about you in Florida and Georgia? >> >> Bill Parker >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OE mailing list >> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.wedgeblade.net%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Foe-wedgeblade.net&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9983ccfcfd78454349a608dcdf42708e%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638630723647607366%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=oNLn6mNiV9jofs5WfjJ0YDy35Ol6ravpKNzR50YCLpo%3D&reserved=0 > > _______________________________________________ > OE mailing list > OE at lists.wedgeblade.net > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.wedgeblade.net%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Foe-wedgeblade.net&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9983ccfcfd78454349a608dcdf42708e%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638630723647625490%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=grI0I6mXitQ0Z2ADocoSjDmpw0YxSrGmirKN1MVOT2c%3D&reserved=0 _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE at lists.wedgeblade.net ? https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.wedgeblade.net%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Foe-wedgeblade.net&data=05%7C02%7C%7C9983ccfcfd78454349a608dcdf42708e%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638630723647633290%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=0cugXRJiU9GkxBtnsX4klzF68wu0JxEZFKfvOuzT4F0%3D&reserved=0 _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE at lists.wedgeblade.net ? http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net ? _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE at lists.wedgeblade.net ? http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net ? _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE at lists.wedgeblade.net ? http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net ? _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE at lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE at lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE at lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE at lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE at lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE at lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lynda860 at outlook.com Fri Oct 4 14:23:03 2024 From: lynda860 at outlook.com (Lynda C) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2024 21:23:03 +0000 Subject: [Oe List ...] Mark Dove Obituary - Worthington, OH Message-ID: https://www.dignitymemorial.com/obituaries/worthington-oh/mark-dove-12003339 Today I received word from Janelle Dove that our colleague Mark Dove has passed on to the next phase of his journey. With grateful hearts we remember his work with the Local Church Experiment, and our friendship which was renewed when one of their grandsons was in music school in Greensboro, NC. We enjoyed Mark and Janelle?s visits through Greensboro and getting to attend with them several wonderful concerts of their Jazz Musician grandson Rob Dove, as well as to meet Mark and Janelle?s son Tim and wife Lisa. The trips to their summer home in Hilton Head, SC, were frequently scheduled around Rob?s concerts. In return, they graciously hosted us in Hilton Head during our NC winter months several times, and Mark and John enjoyed playing golf together. Mark introduced us to a minister friend who was looking for an RS-I kind of event for his congregation, and we led an RS-I retreat on a beautiful little beach town where John Wesley had preached, which led to further experimentation on the power of RS-I in various forms. Another special memory of Mark came from a time when we lived in Galax, VA. Ruth and Ken Gilbert had taken a ?traveling doc? assignment to Galax during that time. When we learned that a youth RS-I was being planned in Chicago, we loaded a van full of family teens, plus Jono and friend, and headed north, stopping at the Lindblad?s gracious Wayside Inn on the way. Mark Dove, Lynn Edwards, and Priscilla Woods were the pedagogues for the course. What a delightful team to educate our younger generation. We send our love and care to Janelle and family. Memorial details are in the link above. Grace and peace, and celebration of a life fully lived in service, Lynda and John Cock -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shb.poetry at gmail.com Fri Oct 4 14:41:47 2024 From: shb.poetry at gmail.com (Sarah Buss) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2024 16:41:47 -0500 Subject: [Oe List ...] Mark Dove Obituary - Worthington, OH In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A beautiful memory. Thanks for sharing. Sarah Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 4, 2024, at 4:23?PM, Lynda C via OE wrote: > > ? > https://www.dignitymemorial.com/obituaries/worthington-oh/mark-dove-12003339 > > > Today I received word from Janelle Dove that our colleague Mark Dove has passed on to the next phase of his journey. > > With grateful hearts we remember his work with the Local Church Experiment, and our friendship which was renewed when one of their grandsons was in music school in Greensboro, NC. > > We enjoyed Mark and Janelle?s visits through Greensboro and getting to attend with them several wonderful concerts of their Jazz Musician grandson Rob Dove, as well as to meet Mark and Janelle?s son Tim and wife Lisa. The trips to their summer home in Hilton Head, SC, were frequently scheduled around Rob?s concerts. In return, they graciously hosted us in Hilton Head during our NC winter months several times, and Mark and John enjoyed playing golf together. Mark introduced us to a minister friend who was looking for an RS-I kind of event for his congregation, and we led an RS-I retreat on a beautiful little beach town where John Wesley had preached, which led to further experimentation on the power of RS-I in various forms. > > Another special memory of Mark came from a time when we lived in Galax, VA. Ruth and Ken Gilbert had taken a ?traveling doc? assignment to Galax during that time. When we learned that a youth RS-I was being planned in Chicago, we loaded a van full of family teens, plus Jono and friend, and headed north, stopping at the Lindblad?s gracious Wayside Inn on the way. Mark Dove, Lynn Edwards, and Priscilla Woods were the pedagogues for the course. What a delightful team to educate our younger generation. > > We send our love and care to Janelle and family. Memorial details are in the link above. > > Grace and peace, and celebration of a life fully lived in service, > > Lynda and John Cock > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > OE mailing list > OE at lists.wedgeblade.net > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nj.lindblad at gmail.com Fri Oct 4 15:43:50 2024 From: nj.lindblad at gmail.com (Judy Lindblad) Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2024 18:43:50 -0400 Subject: [Oe List ...] Mark Dove Obituary - Worthington, OH In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mark?s contributions to individuals and communities are countless. Here in Cincinnati area Saturday Hoops has engaged teenagers in character building activities for 20 years. It was started by church member Ed Berg and continues with his daughter Nancy Costello and her husband. She was recognized as a Woman of the Year last October and I am exploring ways Hoops might fit in our church neighborhood. Judy Lindblad On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 5:23?PM Lynda C via OE wrote: > > https://www.dignitymemorial.com/obituaries/worthington-oh/mark-dove-12003339 > > > > > > Today I received word from Janelle Dove that our colleague Mark Dove has > passed on to the next phase of his journey. > > > > With grateful hearts we remember his work with the Local Church > Experiment, and our friendship which was renewed when one of their > grandsons was in music school in Greensboro, NC. > > > > We enjoyed Mark and Janelle?s visits through Greensboro and getting to > attend with them several wonderful concerts of their Jazz Musician grandson > Rob Dove, as well as to meet Mark and Janelle?s son Tim and wife Lisa. > The trips to their summer home in Hilton Head, SC, were frequently > scheduled around Rob?s concerts. In return, they graciously hosted us in > Hilton Head during our NC winter months several times, and Mark and John > enjoyed playing golf together. Mark introduced us to a minister friend who > was looking for an RS-I kind of event for his congregation, and we led an > RS-I retreat on a beautiful little beach town where John Wesley had > preached, which led to further experimentation on the power of RS-I in > various forms. > > > > Another special memory of Mark came from a time when we lived in Galax, > VA. Ruth and Ken Gilbert had taken a ?traveling doc? assignment to Galax > during that time. When we learned that a youth RS-I was being planned in > Chicago, we loaded a van full of family teens, plus Jono and friend, and > headed north, stopping at the Lindblad?s gracious Wayside Inn on the way. > Mark Dove, Lynn Edwards, and Priscilla Woods were the pedagogues for the > course. What a delightful team to educate our younger generation. > > > > We send our love and care to Janelle and family. Memorial details are in > the link above. > > > > Grace and peace, and celebration of a life fully lived in service, > > > > Lynda and John Cock > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > OE mailing list > OE at lists.wedgeblade.net > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfwiegel at yahoo.com Tue Oct 8 18:38:12 2024 From: jfwiegel at yahoo.com (James Wiegel) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2024 18:38:12 -0700 Subject: [Oe List ...] so i turn again to this wisdom pool References: <674E8BA4-5F99-454A-8DC2-B9AAE09DA0CE.ref@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <674E8BA4-5F99-454A-8DC2-B9AAE09DA0CE@yahoo.com> The statement, "When the external situation creates an internal crisis from which we seek to escape, it is at that point that the question of God is raised" -- or something like that, was used to give a framework to the Question of God lecture in the Ecumenical Institute's "Question of God" lecture. What was the source of this statement? Something in Kierkegaard? Thanks for any help. I am frantically trying to swim in the deep waters of Gene Marshall's Zoom Symposium on a new Christian theology. Jim Wiegel ?We are all time travelers journeying into the future. But let us make that future a place we want to visit. ? Stephen Hawking -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From onedonbushman at gmail.com Tue Oct 8 20:14:26 2024 From: onedonbushman at gmail.com (Don Bushman) Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2024 21:14:26 -0600 Subject: [Oe List ...] so i turn again to this wisdom pool In-Reply-To: <674E8BA4-5F99-454A-8DC2-B9AAE09DA0CE@yahoo.com> References: <674E8BA4-5F99-454A-8DC2-B9AAE09DA0CE.ref@yahoo.com> <674E8BA4-5F99-454A-8DC2-B9AAE09DA0CE@yahoo.com> Message-ID: Well Jim-breathe-deep inhale twice as long exhale, 10 times. I have participated in his zooming and found it worth the effort. Unless you are going really far down hill, it is good stuff you can manage. I found the following likely sources. I suspect it was our Pierce, Matthews, Marshall, and the other creators of RS1 fascination with Kierkegaard-and several of these other sources could play into the statement: 1. *Viktor Frankl ? "Man's Search for Meaning"* - *Why it's useful*: This book provides insight into how suffering can lead individuals to confront questions about meaning, purpose, and spirituality. Frankl, a Holocaust survivor, explores how the human spirit searches for meaning even in the most difficult circumstances. - *Key themes*: Existential crisis, suffering, and the search for purpose. 2. *S?ren Kierkegaard ? "The Sickness Unto Death"* - *Why it's useful*: Kierkegaard, considered the father of existentialism, deals with despair and how it leads to self-awareness and the need for reconciliation with the concept of God. - *Key themes*: Despair, faith, the self, and the relationship with God in existential crises. 3. *C.S. Lewis ? "The Problem of Pain"* - *Why it's useful*: C.S. Lewis explores the problem of human suffering from a Christian theological perspective, addressing how pain forces individuals to turn toward God for answers. - *Key themes*: Suffering, divine purpose, and spiritual transformation. 4. *Paul Tillich ? "The Courage to Be"* - *Why it's useful*: Tillich examines existential anxiety and the role of faith in overcoming the crises of meaninglessness. He addresses how individuals turn to spirituality when confronted with the anxiety of existence. - *Key themes*: Existential anxiety, courage, and the divine. 5. *Thomas Merton ? "No Man Is an Island"* - *Why it's useful*: Merton, a Trappist monk, reflects on the importance of contemplation and how internal crises often direct us to seek answers in God and spiritual truths. - *Key themes*: Spiritual life, contemplation, and God?s role in personal crises. 6. *Simone Weil ? "Waiting for God"* - *Why it's useful*: Weil?s writings emphasize how suffering and affliction lead individuals to spiritual growth and a deeper understanding of God?s presence. - *Key themes*: Suffering, spiritual growth, and divine presence. 7. *St. Augustine ? "Confessions"* - *Why it's useful*: This autobiographical work shows St. Augustine?s own spiritual crisis and his journey toward understanding God?s role in his life. His reflections are a profound exploration of human restlessness and the search for divine truth. - *Key themes*: Sin, grace, spiritual crisis, and divine revelation. 828-292-9696 On Tue, Oct 8, 2024 at 7:39?PM James Wiegel via OE wrote: > The statement, "When the external situation creates an internal crisis > from which we seek to escape, it is at that point that the question of God > is raised" -- or something like that, was used to give a framework to the > Question of God lecture in the Ecumenical Institute's "Question of God" > lecture. > > What was the source of this statement? Something in Kierkegaard? > Thanks for any help. I am frantically trying to swim in the deep waters > of Gene Marshall's Zoom Symposium on a new Christian theology. > > Jim Wiegel > > ?We are all time travelers journeying into the future. But let us make > that future a place we want to visit. ? Stephen Hawking > _______________________________________________ > OE mailing list > OE at lists.wedgeblade.net > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfwiegel at yahoo.com Wed Oct 9 04:50:50 2024 From: jfwiegel at yahoo.com (James Wiegel) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2024 04:50:50 -0700 Subject: [Oe List ...] so i turn again to this wisdom pool In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <96E194D6-E7C8-4BC0-8209-280E23B3AAF1@yahoo.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maricrocker at gmail.com Wed Oct 9 20:26:39 2024 From: maricrocker at gmail.com (Mari Crocker) Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2024 23:26:39 -0400 Subject: [Oe List ...] so i turn again to this wisdom pool In-Reply-To: References: <674E8BA4-5F99-454A-8DC2-B9AAE09DA0CE.ref@yahoo.com> <674E8BA4-5F99-454A-8DC2-B9AAE09DA0CE@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6AFE9D30-C619-4AD6-ADBD-669817C109E2@gmail.com> Thank you Don for grounding, and Jim for inviting, these references to the ?Saints? (secular and religious, who informed our work as EI/OE/ICA,). And are still here with us ?... > On Oct 8, 2024, at 11:14 PM, Don Bushman via OE wrote: > > Well Jim-breathe-deep inhale twice as long exhale, 10 times. I have participated in his zooming and found it worth the effort. Unless you are going really far down hill, it is good stuff you can manage. > > I found the following likely sources. I suspect it was our Pierce, Matthews, Marshall, and the other creators of RS1 fascination with Kierkegaard-and several of these other sources could play into the statement: > > 1. Viktor Frankl ? "Man's Search for Meaning" > > Why it's useful: This book provides insight into how suffering can lead individuals to confront questions about meaning, purpose, and spirituality. Frankl, a Holocaust survivor, explores how the human spirit searches for meaning even in the most difficult circumstances. > Key themes: Existential crisis, suffering, and the search for purpose. > 2. S?ren Kierkegaard ? "The Sickness Unto Death" > > Why it's useful: Kierkegaard, considered the father of existentialism, deals with despair and how it leads to self-awareness and the need for reconciliation with the concept of God. > Key themes: Despair, faith, the self, and the relationship with God in existential crises. > 3. C.S. Lewis ? "The Problem of Pain" > > Why it's useful: C.S. Lewis explores the problem of human suffering from a Christian theological perspective, addressing how pain forces individuals to turn toward God for answers. > Key themes: Suffering, divine purpose, and spiritual transformation. > 4. Paul Tillich ? "The Courage to Be" > > Why it's useful: Tillich examines existential anxiety and the role of faith in overcoming the crises of meaninglessness. He addresses how individuals turn to spirituality when confronted with the anxiety of existence. > Key themes: Existential anxiety, courage, and the divine. > 5. Thomas Merton ? "No Man Is an Island" > > Why it's useful: Merton, a Trappist monk, reflects on the importance of contemplation and how internal crises often direct us to seek answers in God and spiritual truths. > Key themes: Spiritual life, contemplation, and God?s role in personal crises. > 6. Simone Weil ? "Waiting for God" > > Why it's useful: Weil?s writings emphasize how suffering and affliction lead individuals to spiritual growth and a deeper understanding of God?s presence. > Key themes: Suffering, spiritual growth, and divine presence. > 7. St. Augustine ? "Confessions" > > Why it's useful: This autobiographical work shows St. Augustine?s own spiritual crisis and his journey toward understanding God?s role in his life. His reflections are a profound exploration of human restlessness and the search for divine truth. > Key themes: Sin, grace, spiritual crisis, and divine revelation. > > > 828-292-9696 > > > > On Tue, Oct 8, 2024 at 7:39?PM James Wiegel via OE > wrote: >> The statement, "When the external situation creates an internal crisis from which we seek to escape, it is at that point that the question of God is raised" -- or something like that, was used to give a framework to the Question of God lecture in the Ecumenical Institute's "Question of God" lecture. >> >> What was the source of this statement? Something in Kierkegaard? >> Thanks for any help. I am frantically trying to swim in the deep waters of Gene Marshall's Zoom Symposium on a new Christian theology. >> >> Jim Wiegel >> ?We are all time travelers journeying into the future. But let us make that future a place we want to visit. ? Stephen Hawking >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OE mailing list >> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net >> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > _______________________________________________ > OE mailing list > OE at lists.wedgeblade.net > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elliestock at aol.com Mon Oct 14 13:46:40 2024 From: elliestock at aol.com (Ellie Stock) Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2024 20:46:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Oe List ...] Indigenous Peoples Day Greetings! In-Reply-To: <702587027.1233290.1728905771232@mail.yahoo.com> References: <702587027.1233290.1728905771232@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1204652298.1461948.1728938800219@mail.yahoo.com> Indigenous Peoples Day Greetings from Oberlin, OH where we now live. Below are:? -a link to Oberlin's Proclamation on Indigenous Peoples Day; and | -a link to a short video re the Wampanoag 400 year history:? "We Are Still Here." Oberlin celebrated with an Indigenous Peoples Day event Saturday in the community center:? dancing, artisan tables, info tables for Indigenous groups in the area, children's activities, food, etc. Today was a vigil on Tappan Square, in the middle of town, where folks of all ages gathered to listen to the Proclamation, and be present to the history, culture, gifts, and challenges of, and the learnings from the Indigenous Peoples of this nation and globally. At our senior community, the celebration also has included a presentation on colonization, a special bulletin board and library display focused on Indigenous Peoples, individual displays outside apartments and cottages, a newsletter blog, and a Three Sisters Stew Dinner tonight--all coordinated by the newly formed Indigenous Peoples Interest Group. As a poster that we brought to the vigil says . . . DEFEND THE SACRED! May we learn from All Our Relatives--animal, vegetable, and mineral . . . before it is too late . . . Ellie :) elliestock at aol.com? ? City Council Regular Meeting | | | Meeting Date: | 10/07/2024 | ? | | From: | Belinda Anderson, City Clerk | | Department: | City Clerk | ? | | | | | SUBJECT: | | Proclamation - Indigenous Peoples' Day | | | Attachments | | Proclamation - Indigenous Peoples Day | | 8:30 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vinodparekh at gmail.com Fri Oct 18 19:23:20 2024 From: vinodparekh at gmail.com (Vinod Parekh) Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2024 07:53:20 +0530 Subject: [Oe List ...] Indigenous Peoples Day Greetings! In-Reply-To: <1204652298.1461948.1728938800219@mail.yahoo.com> References: <702587027.1233290.1728905771232@mail.yahoo.com> <1204652298.1461948.1728938800219@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: We are touched Ellie.We are with you.The 'movement' is in our prayers. Vinod and Kamala On Tue, Oct 15, 2024 at 2:17?AM Ellie Stock via OE wrote: > Indigenous Peoples Day Greetings from Oberlin, OH where we now live. > > Below are: > > -a link to Oberlin's Proclamation on Indigenous Peoples Day; and > > -a link to a short video re the Wampanoag 400 year history: "We Are Still > Here." > > Oberlin celebrated with an Indigenous Peoples Day event Saturday in the > community center: dancing, artisan tables, info tables for Indigenous > groups in the area, children's activities, food, etc. > > Today was a vigil on Tappan Square, in the middle of town, where folks of > all ages gathered to listen to the Proclamation, and be present to the > history, culture, gifts, and challenges of, and the learnings from the > Indigenous Peoples of this nation and globally. > > At our senior community, the celebration also has included a presentation > on colonization, a special bulletin board and library display focused on > Indigenous Peoples, individual displays outside apartments and cottages, a > newsletter blog, and a Three Sisters Stew Dinner tonight--all coordinated > by the newly formed Indigenous Peoples Interest Group. > > As a poster that we brought to the vigil says . . . > > > > > *DEFEND THE SACRED!May we learn from All Our Relatives--animal, vegetable, > and mineral . . . before it is too late . . .*Ellie :) > elliestock at aol.com > > > > > > > > > > *City Council Regular Meeting* > Meeting Date: 10/07/2024 > From: Belinda Anderson, City Clerk > Department: City Clerk > ------------------------------ > SUBJECT: > Proclamation - Indigenous Peoples' Day > Attachments > Proclamation - Indigenous Peoples Day > > > > > > [image: We Are Still Here: Four hundred years of Wampanoag history] > 8:30 > > > > _______________________________________________ > OE mailing list > OE at lists.wedgeblade.net > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elliestock at aol.com Thu Oct 24 08:31:46 2024 From: elliestock at aol.com (Ellie Stock) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2024 15:31:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Oe List ...] Indigenous Peoples Day Greetings! In-Reply-To: References: <702587027.1233290.1728905771232@mail.yahoo.com> <1204652298.1461948.1728938800219@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1023183738.1101632.1729783906876@mail.yahoo.com> Thanks, Vinod and Kamala.? So good to hear from you.?? We are hoping for the best regarding the upcoming election.? According to polls, the vote will be close.? We have already voted, and in many places, there have been record early voting turnouts--not sure what that portends. We also continue to focus on environmental concerns and are working with a group in our senior community to address these issues locally, nationally and internationally. We hope you are both doing well. Ellie and Carleton :) On Friday, October 18, 2024 at 10:23:39 PM EDT, Vinod Parekh via OE wrote: We are touched?Ellie.We are with you.The 'movement' is in our prayers. Vinod and Kamala On Tue, Oct 15, 2024 at 2:17?AM Ellie Stock via OE wrote: Indigenous Peoples Day Greetings from Oberlin, OH where we now live. Below are:? -a link to Oberlin's Proclamation on Indigenous Peoples Day; and | -a link to a short video re the Wampanoag 400 year history:? "We Are Still Here." Oberlin celebrated with an Indigenous Peoples Day event Saturday in the community center:? dancing, artisan tables, info tables for Indigenous groups in the area, children's activities, food, etc. Today was a vigil on Tappan Square, in the middle of town, where folks of all ages gathered to listen to the Proclamation, and be present to the history, culture, gifts, and challenges of, and the learnings from the Indigenous Peoples of this nation and globally. At our senior community, the celebration also has included a presentation on colonization, a special bulletin board and library display focused on Indigenous Peoples, individual displays outside apartments and cottages, a newsletter blog, and a Three Sisters Stew Dinner tonight--all coordinated by the newly formed Indigenous Peoples Interest Group. As a poster that we brought to the vigil says . . . DEFEND THE SACRED! May we learn from All Our Relatives--animal, vegetable, and mineral . . . before it is too late . . . Ellie :) elliestock at aol.com? ? City Council Regular Meeting | | | Meeting Date: | 10/07/2024 | ? | | From: | Belinda Anderson, City Clerk | | Department: | City Clerk | ? | | | | | SUBJECT: | | Proclamation - Indigenous Peoples' Day | | | Attachments | | Proclamation - Indigenous Peoples Day | | 8:30 _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE at lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE at lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tim at tswegner.net Thu Oct 24 13:44:47 2024 From: tim at tswegner.net (Timothy Wegner) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2024 15:44:47 -0500 Subject: [Oe List ...] Obituary for William Dane Adkinson Message-ID: (From Wanda) Others may send this to you also, but I just wanted to be sure it did as soon as possible. His daughter did a great job on his Obituary and the Photo looks just like Dane?.a forever Visionary and Caregiver for ALL?. Grace & Peace, wanda Another member of our Austin Monthly Order Collegium has died and will be missed. The disease of ALS was his challenge for a year. We all hoped his willingness to undergo experimental treatments would postpone his death. He was an avid biker and in good health. Dane will be missed, but not lost, as he will always and forever in our hearts and part of the League. Grace and Peace Wanda Holcombe Obituary for William Dane Adkinson https://www.statesman.com/obituaries/paco0979890 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shb.poetry at gmail.com Thu Oct 24 15:55:00 2024 From: shb.poetry at gmail.com (Sarah Buss) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2024 17:55:00 -0500 Subject: [Oe List ...] Obituary for William Dane Adkinson In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Wanda. Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 24, 2024, at 3:45?PM, Timothy Wegner via OE wrote: > > ? > (From Wanda) > Others may send this to you also, but I just wanted to be sure it did as soon as possible. His daughter did a great job on his Obituary and the Photo looks just like Dane?.a forever Visionary and Caregiver for ALL?. > Grace & Peace, > wanda > > Another member of our Austin Monthly Order Collegium has died and will be missed. The disease of ALS was his challenge for a year. We all hoped his willingness to undergo experimental treatments would postpone his death. He was an avid biker and in good health. > > Dane will be missed, but not lost, as he will always and forever in our hearts and part of the League. > Grace and Peace > Wanda Holcombe > > Obituary for William Dane Adkinson > https://www.statesman.com/obituaries/paco0979890 > > _______________________________________________ > OE mailing list > OE at lists.wedgeblade.net > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From isobeljimbish at optusnet.com.au Thu Oct 24 17:43:32 2024 From: isobeljimbish at optusnet.com.au (Isobel and Jim) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2024 11:43:32 +1100 Subject: [Oe List ...] Obituary for William Dane Adkinson In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <85F11507-A719-4DD8-8FC2-C186326A2287@optusnet.com.au> Thank you Wanda, for giving us this opportunity. With love, Isobel Isobel Bishop Mob. 0412 129 425 > On 25 Oct 2024, at 9:56?AM, Sarah Buss via OE wrote: > > ?Thanks Wanda. > Sent from my iPhone > >>> On Oct 24, 2024, at 3:45?PM, Timothy Wegner via OE wrote: >>> >> ? >> (From Wanda) >> Others may send this to you also, but I just wanted to be sure it did as soon as possible. His daughter did a great job on his Obituary and the Photo looks just like Dane?.a forever Visionary and Caregiver for ALL?. >> Grace & Peace, >> wanda >> >> Another member of our Austin Monthly Order Collegium has died and will be missed. The disease of ALS was his challenge for a year. We all hoped his willingness to undergo experimental treatments would postpone his death. He was an avid biker and in good health. >> >> Dane will be missed, but not lost, as he will always and forever in our hearts and part of the League. >> Grace and Peace >> Wanda Holcombe >> >> Obituary for William Dane Adkinson >> https://www.statesman.com/obituaries/paco0979890 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OE mailing list >> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net >> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > _______________________________________________ > OE mailing list > OE at lists.wedgeblade.net > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kidbigelow at gmail.com Thu Oct 24 20:29:05 2024 From: kidbigelow at gmail.com (Daniel Bigelow) Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2024 20:29:05 -0700 Subject: [Oe List ...] Long time no see, Tim... Message-ID: Hey there Tim. It's Dan Bigelow. I saw you on the ICA thread making announcements about obits and such and since I recognized you and not the subject of the email thought I should reach out. It's been 37 years since I saw you and your family back in the Houston house. I did befriend Gretchen on Facebook a few years ago and saw she's coaching people to their best potential. Good for her...but that's all I know of your clan since the 1980s! I do hope you're doing well. I'm living in LA, married with dogs, making my art and animations all these years later. My sister and her husband are in Chicago. I imagine you saw that Dad passed a couple of months back via the same channels I found this email for you through. Karen Snyder helped us get his obit up on the ICA global archives site... https://icaglobalarchives.org/william-bigelow/ It's been a very long time and I'd love to hear how things went for you and yours over the years. Happy Holidays and Grace and Peace be unto you. =Daniel Bigelow www.dancandraw.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elsabengel at gmail.com Fri Oct 25 16:06:46 2024 From: elsabengel at gmail.com (Elsa Bengel) Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2024 19:06:46 -0400 Subject: [Oe List ...] Dane Atkinson Message-ID: What a creative honoring obituary. I had the pleasure of getting to work with Dane and Glenda when we opened the Miami Religious House with the Erskines. It has been a long time but I send blessings for Glenda and family. Elsa Bengel Sent from Gmail Mobile -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elizabeth at ehcaperton.com Sun Oct 27 10:32:20 2024 From: elizabeth at ehcaperton.com (Elizabeth Caperton) Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2024 17:32:20 +0000 Subject: [Oe List ...] Justin Morrill References: <8E2AEEC5-E492-4FE5-AA8B-DB82B1B2E8B6@singouteileen.com> Message-ID: <4BBF61D2-AA6D-4236-8B70-C9A618BB7866@ehcaperton.com> The Morrill family has asked me to share the following about Justin?s death. "Justin Irving Morrill died yesterday, October 26, at the age of 92. What a grand human he was! Pianist, husband, pastor, father, world changer and traveler, idealist, spiritual seeker, handyman, gardener, chef, fund raiser of many millions for education and Community Health Care, supporter of the arts, grandfather and great grandfather and, most of all, a wise counselor. He was all that and more. We are celebrating a life well lived. We have not yet set plans for a memorial but will communicate them when we do. Del?s address is 7290 Rosemount Circle, Apt 112 Tacoma 98465 She also can communicate pretty well via text and phone, less on email. (253) 365-1321 Thanks for your thoughts and prayers, The Morrill Family" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hfgreenenc at gmail.com Sun Oct 27 10:49:50 2024 From: hfgreenenc at gmail.com (Herman Greene) Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2024 13:49:50 -0400 Subject: [Oe List ...] Obituary for William Dane Adkinson In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I just learned of Dane's death. I went to high school with Dane and Glenda. Dane and I were in the same fraternity in college. We were all three in the Order Ecumenical. I don't know of any people who were more happily married than Dane and Glenda. I was amazed at the career achievements of both of them. His obituary captures who he was. He will live in my memory and heart forever. Herman On Thu, Oct 24, 2024, 4:45?PM Timothy Wegner via OE wrote: > (From Wanda) > Others may send this to you also, but I just wanted to be sure it did as > soon as possible. His daughter did a great job on his Obituary and the > Photo looks just like Dane?.a forever Visionary and Caregiver for ALL?. > Grace & Peace, > wanda > > Another member of our Austin Monthly Order Collegium has died and will be > missed. The disease of ALS was his challenge for a year. We all hoped his > willingness to undergo experimental treatments would postpone his death. He > was an avid biker and in good health. > > Dane will be missed, but not lost, as he will always and forever in our > hearts and part of the League. > Grace and Peace > Wanda Holcombe > > Obituary for William Dane Adkinson > https://www.statesman.com/obituaries/paco0979890 > > _______________________________________________ > OE mailing list > OE at lists.wedgeblade.net > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elliestock at aol.com Sun Oct 27 12:42:16 2024 From: elliestock at aol.com (Ellie Stock) Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2024 19:42:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Oe List ...] Justin Morrill In-Reply-To: <4BBF61D2-AA6D-4236-8B70-C9A618BB7866@ehcaperton.com> References: <8E2AEEC5-E492-4FE5-AA8B-DB82B1B2E8B6@singouteileen.com> <4BBF61D2-AA6D-4236-8B70-C9A618BB7866@ehcaperton.com> Message-ID: <278564692.1934182.1730058136758@mail.yahoo.com> Our hearts and prayers are with Del and all of the Morrill Family in the death of Justin, family, colleague, and friend of many.? We give thanks for his (and Del's) leadership with "Area New York" when we were assigned there and many other places.? May the legacy of his leadership and compassion, his many talents, and the gift of his whole life continue to be a source of comfort, inspiration, peace, and hope to his family and friends all those whose lives he touched now and in the days to come. Grace and peace ~blessings and love, Carleton and Ellie?carletonstock at aol.comelliestock@aol.com? On Sunday, October 27, 2024 at 01:32:26 PM EDT, Elizabeth Caperton via OE wrote: The Morrill family has asked me to share the following about Justin?s death. "Justin Irving Morrill died yesterday, October 26, at the age of 92. What a grand human he was! Pianist, husband, pastor, father, world changer and traveler, idealist, spiritual seeker, handyman, gardener, chef, fund raiser of many millions for education and Community Health Care, supporter of the arts, ?grandfather and great grandfather and, most of all, a wise counselor. He was all that and more. We are celebrating a life well lived. We have not yet set plans for a memorial but will communicate them when we do. Del?s address is 7290 Rosemount Circle, ?Apt 112 Tacoma 98465 She also can communicate pretty well via text and phone, less on email. (253) 365-1321 Thanks for your thoughts and prayers, The Morrill Family" _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE at lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfknutson at aol.com Sun Oct 27 12:54:19 2024 From: jfknutson at aol.com (Joan) Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2024 19:54:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Justin Morrill In-Reply-To: <278564692.1934182.1730058136758@mail.yahoo.com> References: <8E2AEEC5-E492-4FE5-AA8B-DB82B1B2E8B6@singouteileen.com> <4BBF61D2-AA6D-4236-8B70-C9A618BB7866@ehcaperton.com> <278564692.1934182.1730058136758@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1100807733.2228164.1730058859378@mail.yahoo.com> When we opened up a house in Anchorage Alaska, a remote location where we rarely got to see our colleagues, I still remember Justin's visits as comforting and collegial.? We were always pleased when he came. Joan Knutson On Sunday, October 27, 2024 at 12:43:06 PM MST, Ellie Stock via Dialogue wrote: Our hearts and prayers are with Del and all of the Morrill Family in the death of Justin, family, colleague, and friend of many.? We give thanks for his (and Del's) leadership with "Area New York" when we were assigned there and many other places.? May the legacy of his leadership and compassion, his many talents, and the gift of his whole life continue to be a source of comfort, inspiration, peace, and hope to his family and friends all those whose lives he touched now and in the days to come. Grace and peace ~blessings and love, Carleton and Ellie?carletonstock at aol.comelliestock@aol.com? On Sunday, October 27, 2024 at 01:32:26 PM EDT, Elizabeth Caperton via OE wrote: The Morrill family has asked me to share the following about Justin?s death. "Justin Irving Morrill died yesterday, October 26, at the age of 92. What a grand human he was! Pianist, husband, pastor, father, world changer and traveler, idealist, spiritual seeker, handyman, gardener, chef, fund raiser of many millions for education and Community Health Care, supporter of the arts, ?grandfather and great grandfather and, most of all, a wise counselor. He was all that and more. We are celebrating a life well lived. We have not yet set plans for a memorial but will communicate them when we do. Del?s address is 7290 Rosemount Circle, ?Apt 112 Tacoma 98465 She also can communicate pretty well via text and phone, less on email. (253) 365-1321 Thanks for your thoughts and prayers, The Morrill Family" _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE at lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ Dialogue mailing list Dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shb.poetry at gmail.com Mon Oct 28 08:51:04 2024 From: shb.poetry at gmail.com (Sarah Buss) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2024 10:51:04 -0500 Subject: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Justin Morrill In-Reply-To: <1100807733.2228164.1730058859378@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1100807733.2228164.1730058859378@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3DEB799F-67B1-4298-B5F6-5377CB354C49@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From synergi at yahoo.com Mon Oct 28 14:45:16 2024 From: synergi at yahoo.com (W. J.) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2024 21:45:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Oe List ...] bizarre References: <1300457150.2336206.1730151916092.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1300457150.2336206.1730151916092@mail.yahoo.com> We're in the closing days of the most bizarre U.S. election campaign in my memory. According to Barack, N.C. Lt. Gov. Robinson, the Repugnant candidate for governor, is a self-described "Black Nazi" who wants to bring back slavery.I know that one's hard to beat!But it gets worse!?Robinson will be defeated on November 5, rather than riding into the governor's mansion on the coattails of Trump's predicted N.C. victory.But here's what's worse:?Trump could narrowly win in the electoral college while losing the popular vote.Or he could narrowly lose the election, refuse to concede, and contest the election by casting doubt on its legitimacy and creating chaos in the electoral college, throwing the election to the House of Representatives.The critical voter block that will guarantee either outcome are female Trump voters, almost all of whom are white, and most of whom are not college graduates and are predominantly postmenopausal.This raises what is for me a burning question: why would any woman vote for Trump?And especially any woman who could conceive?Why would any woman not deeply understand that she is personally under threat the second any other woman is personally under threat?As well as being a member of a large group that is now directly under attack?I just don't get it.So, given the racial and gender gap in the American electorate, even if every white male voted for Donald Trump, he would have to lose if every female plus every person of color voted for Kamala. Right?Based on this logic, the reality that I just can't predict that Trump will lose is deeply disturbing.So I've tried to plumb the mystery of why any female (including my sister, who has voted for Trump twice before) would be determined to vote for Trump despite all the indisputable evidence that electing Trump in 2024 would be disastrous.I think it comes down to this: a cultural backlash against global change that is perceived as both virtually inevitable and threatening to the survival of their traditional female gender identity roles.?This perception of a diffuse but global threat to their sense of security in their traditional sense of self can lead female Trump voters to unconsciously self-destructive behavior, in that they can vote for Trump while at the same hating him personally as the embodiment of a threatening male dominance that they have had to put up with in their intimate familial relationships.In short, females voting for Trump perpetuate the ancient archetype of female subservience.In my humble opinion!So why are any female voters so profoundly stuck in this personal dilemma? Of rebelling against the dominance of a male establishment by voting for a fascist wanna-be dictator who exudes a shrunken and impotent sense of male dominance while he attacks the American Constitution?Perhaps those of you who are female can see more deeply into this contradiction than I can manage.?The best I can suggest is to place this existential disturbance somewhere in the area of "cultural impoverishment", and perhaps in the category of being "spiritually vulnerable" to what we used to call "brainwashing". And thus resistant to reality-based messages that contradict personal beliefs that are determined by a myth system.I invite your responses.And if you're a registered voter, don't neglect to vote! Marshall Finally, I just can't get why any woman in our group would insist on trashing Kamala. Yet here's what Susan Fertig posted on Facebook: P.S. Maybe Trump thinks of the electoral college as another iteration of Trump University! A scam he can manipulate to get what he wants. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 457488282_2891520291010734_7975706897851416784_n.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 56641 bytes Desc: not available URL: From maricrocker at gmail.com Mon Oct 28 16:06:14 2024 From: maricrocker at gmail.com (Mari Crocker) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2024 19:06:14 -0400 Subject: [Oe List ...] bizarre In-Reply-To: <1300457150.2336206.1730151916092@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1300457150.2336206.1730151916092.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1300457150.2336206.1730151916092@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4611B228-7F70-453C-B0F1-BD615C4E8645@gmail.com> Hi W.J and other colleagues I appreciate your analysis, and would add to your assessment of a ?cultural backlash against cultural change? and ?the perpetuation of the ancient archetype of female subservience,? the side-effects (like those of a deleterious drug) of "the abused woman syndrome". My sister typifies the abused woman, who continued to submit to abuse by ?staying in the marriage for the sake of the kids", and when she shook loose of marital abuse, she submitted to abuse by her sons, who of course learned from the role model of their father. One son did it by direct physical and emotional demeaning; the other by distancing himself geographically and abdicating any ?hands-on? support to his mother when she was diagnosed with dementia, save for an occasional phone call. However, despite her dementia, my sister cast her absentee ballot for Kamala. Even with dementia she saw the light. Marilyn > On Oct 28, 2024, at 5:45 PM, W. J. via OE wrote: > > We're in the closing days of the most bizarre U.S. election campaign in my memory. According to Barack, N.C. Lt. Gov. Robinson, the Repugnant candidate for governor, is a self-described "Black Nazi" who wants to bring back slavery. > I know that one's hard to beat! > But it gets worse! > Robinson will be defeated on November 5, rather than riding into the governor's mansion on the coattails of Trump's predicted N.C. victory. > But here's what's worse: > Trump could narrowly win in the electoral college while losing the popular vote. > Or he could narrowly lose the election, refuse to concede, and contest the election by casting doubt on its legitimacy and creating chaos in the electoral college, throwing the election to the House of Representatives. > The critical voter block that will guarantee either outcome are female Trump voters, almost all of whom are white, and most of whom are not college graduates and are predominantly postmenopausal. > This raises what is for me a burning question: why would any woman vote for Trump? > And especially any woman who could conceive? > Why would any woman not deeply understand that she is personally under threat the second any other woman is personally under threat? > As well as being a member of a large group that is now directly under attack? > I just don't get it. > So, given the racial and gender gap in the American electorate, even if every white male voted for Donald Trump, he would have to lose if every female plus every person of color voted for Kamala. Right? > Based on this logic, the reality that I just can't predict that Trump will lose is deeply disturbing. > So I've tried to plumb the mystery of why any female (including my sister, who has voted for Trump twice before) would be determined to vote for Trump despite all the indisputable evidence that electing Trump in 2024 would be disastrous. > I think it comes down to this: a cultural backlash against global change that is perceived as both virtually inevitable and threatening to the survival of their traditional female gender identity roles. > This perception of a diffuse but global threat to their sense of security in their traditional sense of self can lead female Trump voters to unconsciously self-destructive behavior, in that they can vote for Trump while at the same hating him personally as the embodiment of a threatening male dominance that they have had to put up with in their intimate familial relationships. > In short, females voting for Trump perpetuate the ancient archetype of female subservience. > In my humble opinion! > So why are any female voters so profoundly stuck in this personal dilemma? Of rebelling against the dominance of a male establishment by voting for a fascist wanna-be dictator who exudes a shrunken and impotent sense of male dominance while he attacks the American Constitution? > Perhaps those of you who are female can see more deeply into this contradiction than I can manage. > The best I can suggest is to place this existential disturbance somewhere in the area of "cultural impoverishment", and perhaps in the category of being "spiritually vulnerable" to what we used to call "brainwashing". And thus resistant to reality-based messages that contradict personal beliefs that are determined by a myth system. > I invite your responses. > And if you're a registered voter, don't neglect to vote! > > Marshall > > Finally, I just can't get why any woman in our group would insist on trashing Kamala. Yet here's what Susan Fertig posted on Facebook: > > <457488282_2891520291010734_7975706897851416784_n.jpg> > > P.S. Maybe Trump thinks of the electoral college as another iteration of Trump University! A scam he can manipulate to get what he wants. > > <457488282_2891520291010734_7975706897851416784_n.jpg>_______________________________________________ > OE mailing list > OE at lists.wedgeblade.net > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From w.schlesinger at pvida.net Mon Oct 28 16:22:24 2024 From: w.schlesinger at pvida.net (w.schlesinger at pvida.net) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2024 17:22:24 -0600 Subject: [Oe List ...] bizarre In-Reply-To: <4611B228-7F70-453C-B0F1-BD615C4E8645@gmail.com> References: <1300457150.2336206.1730151916092.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1300457150.2336206.1730151916092@mail.yahoo.com> <4611B228-7F70-453C-B0F1-BD615C4E8645@gmail.com> Message-ID: <079e01db2990$3fbe09d0$bf3a1d70$@pvida.net> The vice-presidential candidate studied Rene Girard?s work ? and betrayed it. He?s taken mimetic desire (I want what I see others having) and scapegoating (if we get rid of ?them? we?ll solve our problems, so let us link arms and attack ?them?) as recipes for victory instead of the driver for and betrayal of innocent suffering that Girard describes. Trump creates the incredibly powerful tool that ended up crucifying Jesus ? and in so doing, disclosed the horror and emptiness of that for the future. And as has been seen, when one ?they? has been disposed, the tool must find another ? and turns on itself in a cannibalistic process of eating its own. Thus the ?RINO? charge. Rubbing raw the sores of discontent can lead to this kind of destruction ? and in an angry rejection of other values. Attacking it in kind only strengthens the method. Unfortunately, innocent suffering is the only tool that stops it ? at cost. Thus the nonviolence movements of Gandhi and MLK Jr. and others? My two cents. Bill Schlesinger From: OE On Behalf Of Mari Crocker via OE Sent: Monday, October 28, 2024 5:06 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community Cc: Mari Crocker Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] bizarre Hi W.J and other colleagues I appreciate your analysis, and would add to your assessment of a ?cultural backlash against cultural change? and ?the perpetuation of the ancient archetype of female subservience,? the side-effects (like those of a deleterious drug) of "the abused woman syndrome". My sister typifies the abused woman, who continued to submit to abuse by ?staying in the marriage for the sake of the kids", and when she shook loose of marital abuse, she submitted to abuse by her sons, who of course learned from the role model of their father. One son did it by direct physical and emotional demeaning; the other by distancing himself geographically and abdicating any ?hands-on? support to his mother when she was diagnosed with dementia, save for an occasional phone call. However, despite her dementia, my sister cast her absentee ballot for Kamala. Even with dementia she saw the light. Marilyn On Oct 28, 2024, at 5:45 PM, W. J. via OE > wrote: We're in the closing days of the most bizarre U.S. election campaign in my memory. According to Barack, N.C. Lt. Gov. Robinson, the Repugnant candidate for governor, is a self-described "Black Nazi" who wants to bring back slavery. I know that one's hard to beat! But it gets worse! Robinson will be defeated on November 5, rather than riding into the governor's mansion on the coattails of Trump's predicted N.C. victory. But here's what's worse: Trump could narrowly win in the electoral college while losing the popular vote. Or he could narrowly lose the election, refuse to concede, and contest the election by casting doubt on its legitimacy and creating chaos in the electoral college, throwing the election to the House of Representatives. The critical voter block that will guarantee either outcome are female Trump voters, almost all of whom are white, and most of whom are not college graduates and are predominantly postmenopausal. This raises what is for me a burning question: why would any woman vote for Trump? And especially any woman who could conceive? Why would any woman not deeply understand that she is personally under threat the second any other woman is personally under threat? As well as being a member of a large group that is now directly under attack? I just don't get it. So, given the racial and gender gap in the American electorate, even if every white male voted for Donald Trump, he would have to lose if every female plus every person of color voted for Kamala. Right? Based on this logic, the reality that I just can't predict that Trump will lose is deeply disturbing. So I've tried to plumb the mystery of why any female (including my sister, who has voted for Trump twice before) would be determined to vote for Trump despite all the indisputable evidence that electing Trump in 2024 would be disastrous. I think it comes down to this: a cultural backlash against global change that is perceived as both virtually inevitable and threatening to the survival of their traditional female gender identity roles. This perception of a diffuse but global threat to their sense of security in their traditional sense of self can lead female Trump voters to unconsciously self-destructive behavior, in that they can vote for Trump while at the same hating him personally as the embodiment of a threatening male dominance that they have had to put up with in their intimate familial relationships. In short, females voting for Trump perpetuate the ancient archetype of female subservience. In my humble opinion! So why are any female voters so profoundly stuck in this personal dilemma? Of rebelling against the dominance of a male establishment by voting for a fascist wanna-be dictator who exudes a shrunken and impotent sense of male dominance while he attacks the American Constitution? Perhaps those of you who are female can see more deeply into this contradiction than I can manage. The best I can suggest is to place this existential disturbance somewhere in the area of "cultural impoverishment", and perhaps in the category of being "spiritually vulnerable" to what we used to call "brainwashing". And thus resistant to reality-based messages that contradict personal beliefs that are determined by a myth system. I invite your responses. And if you're a registered voter, don't neglect to vote! Marshall Finally, I just can't get why any woman in our group would insist on trashing Kamala. Yet here's what Susan Fertig posted on Facebook: <457488282_2891520291010734_7975706897851416784_n.jpg> P.S. Maybe Trump thinks of the electoral college as another iteration of Trump University! A scam he can manipulate to get what he wants. <457488282_2891520291010734_7975706897851416784_n.jpg>_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE at lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net -- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From maricrocker at gmail.com Mon Oct 28 16:59:47 2024 From: maricrocker at gmail.com (Mari Crocker) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2024 19:59:47 -0400 Subject: [Oe List ...] bizarre In-Reply-To: <079e01db2990$3fbe09d0$bf3a1d70$@pvida.net> References: <1300457150.2336206.1730151916092.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1300457150.2336206.1730151916092@mail.yahoo.com> <4611B228-7F70-453C-B0F1-BD615C4E8645@gmail.com> <079e01db2990$3fbe09d0$bf3a1d70$@pvida.net> Message-ID: Amen! Dear friend, Bill. Thank you for this, and many other insightful comments you have shared over the years. Fond memories of the time Joe and I spent with your family, way back, when you were discerning your call. Fondly, Marilyn > On Oct 28, 2024, at 7:22 PM, wrote: > > The vice-presidential candidate studied Rene Girard?s work ? and betrayed it. He?s taken mimetic desire (I want what I see others having) and scapegoating (if we get rid of ?them? we?ll solve our problems, so let us link arms and attack ?them?) as recipes for victory instead of the driver for and betrayal of innocent suffering that Girard describes. > > Trump creates the incredibly powerful tool that ended up crucifying Jesus ? and in so doing, disclosed the horror and emptiness of that for the future. And as has been seen, when one ?they? has been disposed, the tool must find another ? and turns on itself in a cannibalistic process of eating its own. Thus the ?RINO? charge. > > Rubbing raw the sores of discontent can lead to this kind of destruction ? and in an angry rejection of other values. Attacking it in kind only strengthens the method. Unfortunately, innocent suffering is the only tool that stops it ? at cost. Thus the nonviolence movements of Gandhi and MLK Jr. and others? > > My two cents. > > Bill Schlesinger > > From: OE > On Behalf Of Mari Crocker via OE > Sent: Monday, October 28, 2024 5:06 PM > To: Order Ecumenical Community > > Cc: Mari Crocker > > Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] bizarre > > Hi W.J and other colleagues > > I appreciate your analysis, and would add to your assessment of a ?cultural backlash against cultural change? and ?the perpetuation of the ancient archetype of female subservience,? the side-effects (like those of a deleterious drug) of "the abused woman syndrome". > > My sister typifies the abused woman, who continued to submit to abuse by ?staying in the marriage for the sake of the kids", and when she shook loose of marital abuse, she submitted to abuse by her sons, who of course learned from the role model of their father. One son did it by direct physical and emotional demeaning; the other by distancing himself geographically and abdicating any ?hands-on? support to his mother when she was diagnosed with dementia, save for an occasional phone call. > > However, despite her dementia, my sister cast her absentee ballot for Kamala. Even with dementia she saw the light. > > Marilyn > > > > >> On Oct 28, 2024, at 5:45 PM, W. J. via OE > wrote: >> >> We're in the closing days of the most bizarre U.S. election campaign in my memory. According to Barack, N.C. Lt. Gov. Robinson, the Repugnant candidate for governor, is a self-described "Black Nazi" who wants to bring back slavery. >> I know that one's hard to beat! >> But it gets worse! >> Robinson will be defeated on November 5, rather than riding into the governor's mansion on the coattails of Trump's predicted N.C. victory. >> But here's what's worse: >> Trump could narrowly win in the electoral college while losing the popular vote. >> Or he could narrowly lose the election, refuse to concede, and contest the election by casting doubt on its legitimacy and creating chaos in the electoral college, throwing the election to the House of Representatives. >> The critical voter block that will guarantee either outcome are female Trump voters, almost all of whom are white, and most of whom are not college graduates and are predominantly postmenopausal. >> This raises what is for me a burning question: why would any woman vote for Trump? >> And especially any woman who could conceive? >> Why would any woman not deeply understand that she is personally under threat the second any other woman is personally under threat? >> As well as being a member of a large group that is now directly under attack? >> I just don't get it. >> So, given the racial and gender gap in the American electorate, even if every white male voted for Donald Trump, he would have to lose if every female plus every person of color voted for Kamala. Right? >> Based on this logic, the reality that I just can't predict that Trump will lose is deeply disturbing. >> So I've tried to plumb the mystery of why any female (including my sister, who has voted for Trump twice before) would be determined to vote for Trump despite all the indisputable evidence that electing Trump in 2024 would be disastrous. >> I think it comes down to this: a cultural backlash against global change that is perceived as both virtually inevitable and threatening to the survival of their traditional female gender identity roles. >> This perception of a diffuse but global threat to their sense of security in their traditional sense of self can lead female Trump voters to unconsciously self-destructive behavior, in that they can vote for Trump while at the same hating him personally as the embodiment of a threatening male dominance that they have had to put up with in their intimate familial relationships. >> In short, females voting for Trump perpetuate the ancient archetype of female subservience. >> In my humble opinion! >> So why are any female voters so profoundly stuck in this personal dilemma? Of rebelling against the dominance of a male establishment by voting for a fascist wanna-be dictator who exudes a shrunken and impotent sense of male dominance while he attacks the American Constitution? >> Perhaps those of you who are female can see more deeply into this contradiction than I can manage. >> The best I can suggest is to place this existential disturbance somewhere in the area of "cultural impoverishment", and perhaps in the category of being "spiritually vulnerable" to what we used to call "brainwashing". And thus resistant to reality-based messages that contradict personal beliefs that are determined by a myth system. >> I invite your responses. >> And if you're a registered voter, don't neglect to vote! >> >> Marshall >> >> Finally, I just can't get why any woman in our group would insist on trashing Kamala. Yet here's what Susan Fertig posted on Facebook: >> >> <457488282_2891520291010734_7975706897851416784_n.jpg> >> >> P.S. Maybe Trump thinks of the electoral college as another iteration of Trump University! A scam he can manipulate to get what he wants. >> >> <457488282_2891520291010734_7975706897851416784_n.jpg>_______________________________________________ >> OE mailing list >> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net >> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfwiegel at yahoo.com Mon Oct 28 19:35:19 2024 From: jfwiegel at yahoo.com (James Wiegel) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2024 19:35:19 -0700 Subject: [Oe List ...] bizarre In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5B11E0F3-6879-401A-8E9E-907575621603@yahoo.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From w.schlesinger at pvida.net Tue Oct 29 03:42:35 2024 From: w.schlesinger at pvida.net (w.schlesinger at pvida.net) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2024 04:42:35 -0600 Subject: [Oe List ...] bizarre In-Reply-To: <5B11E0F3-6879-401A-8E9E-907575621603@yahoo.com> References: <5B11E0F3-6879-401A-8E9E-907575621603@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <086401db29ef$45783530$d0689f90$@pvida.net> It?s hard to respond point by point to demonstrably false statements and charges. COVID was so much more destructive than it needed to have been ? largely due to Trump?s refusal to deal with the science and politicizing responses. The resistance to immunizations, use of masking (common in other parts of the world) ? well, you get the point. Illusory claims of ?greatness? are just that. We may see a Trump victory. And we need to be prepared to stay at the center, to understand that the order of things in the systems will continue to be a process of persons seeking to create a ?visionary dream? ? to quote Bonhoeffer ? and persons seeking to do what it caring and responsible. And this is true whether or not we see a Trump victory. We?ll have to work in that world as we do now, with an understanding that we will not conquer by destroying an enemy but by being who we are called to be. Personally, we?ve contributed, voted, and spoken as clearly as we can in the networks and relationships we have. But our ?heroes? aren?t the ones who overthrew a tyranny. Our ?heroes? are those who cared and sustained even while marginalized and attacked. ?Lest Innocent Blood be Shed? is an account of a village that sheltered Jews in France ? and did so while being gentle with the Vichy forces. That led to warnings before raids as even those in the Vichy regime chose to care. Again, FWIW. Bill From: James Wiegel Sent: Monday, October 28, 2024 8:35 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community Cc: w.schlesinger at pvida.net; Mari Crocker Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] bizarre Watching the world series, I am hit by ads similar to the post forwarded by Susan ? 3 1/2 years in office and things didn?t get done and now they will ?I dont know how to respond to that ? help Jim Wiegel ??the long work of turning their lives into a celebration is not easy. Come and let us talk?. The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver On Oct 28, 2024, at 5:00?PM, Mari Crocker via OE > wrote: ?Amen! Dear friend, Bill. Thank you for this, and many other insightful comments you have shared over the years. Fond memories of the time Joe and I spent with your family, way back, when you were discerning your call. Fondly, Marilyn On Oct 28, 2024, at 7:22 PM, > > wrote: The vice-presidential candidate studied Rene Girard?s work ? and betrayed it. He?s taken mimetic desire (I want what I see others having) and scapegoating (if we get rid of ?them? we?ll solve our problems, so let us link arms and attack ?them?) as recipes for victory instead of the driver for and betrayal of innocent suffering that Girard describes. Trump creates the incredibly powerful tool that ended up crucifying Jesus ? and in so doing, disclosed the horror and emptiness of that for the future. And as has been seen, when one ?they? has been disposed, the tool must find another ? and turns on itself in a cannibalistic process of eating its own. Thus the ?RINO? charge. Rubbing raw the sores of discontent can lead to this kind of destruction ? and in an angry rejection of other values. Attacking it in kind only strengthens the method. Unfortunately, innocent suffering is the only tool that stops it ? at cost. Thus the nonviolence movements of Gandhi and MLK Jr. and others? My two cents. Bill Schlesinger From: OE < oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net> On Behalf Of Mari Crocker via OE Sent: Monday, October 28, 2024 5:06 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community < oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> Cc: Mari Crocker < maricrocker at gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] bizarre Hi W.J and other colleagues I appreciate your analysis, and would add to your assessment of a ?cultural backlash against cultural change? and ?the perpetuation of the ancient archetype of female subservience,? the side-effects (like those of a deleterious drug) of "the abused woman syndrome". My sister typifies the abused woman, who continued to submit to abuse by ?staying in the marriage for the sake of the kids", and when she shook loose of marital abuse, she submitted to abuse by her sons, who of course learned from the role model of their father. One son did it by direct physical and emotional demeaning; the other by distancing himself geographically and abdicating any ?hands-on? support to his mother when she was diagnosed with dementia, save for an occasional phone call. However, despite her dementia, my sister cast her absentee ballot for Kamala. Even with dementia she saw the light. Marilyn On Oct 28, 2024, at 5:45 PM, W. J. via OE < oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: We're in the closing days of the most bizarre U.S. election campaign in my memory. According to Barack, N.C. Lt. Gov. Robinson, the Repugnant candidate for governor, is a self-described "Black Nazi" who wants to bring back slavery. I know that one's hard to beat! But it gets worse! Robinson will be defeated on November 5, rather than riding into the governor's mansion on the coattails of Trump's predicted N.C. victory. But here's what's worse: Trump could narrowly win in the electoral college while losing the popular vote. Or he could narrowly lose the election, refuse to concede, and contest the election by casting doubt on its legitimacy and creating chaos in the electoral college, throwing the election to the House of Representatives. The critical voter block that will guarantee either outcome are female Trump voters, almost all of whom are white, and most of whom are not college graduates and are predominantly postmenopausal. This raises what is for me a burning question: why would any woman vote for Trump? And especially any woman who could conceive? Why would any woman not deeply understand that she is personally under threat the second any other woman is personally under threat? As well as being a member of a large group that is now directly under attack? I just don't get it. So, given the racial and gender gap in the American electorate, even if every white male voted for Donald Trump, he would have to lose if every female plus every person of color voted for Kamala. Right? Based on this logic, the reality that I just can't predict that Trump will lose is deeply disturbing. So I've tried to plumb the mystery of why any female (including my sister, who has voted for Trump twice before) would be determined to vote for Trump despite all the indisputable evidence that electing Trump in 2024 would be disastrous. I think it comes down to this: a cultural backlash against global change that is perceived as both virtually inevitable and threatening to the survival of their traditional female gender identity roles. This perception of a diffuse but global threat to their sense of security in their traditional sense of self can lead female Trump voters to unconsciously self-destructive behavior, in that they can vote for Trump while at the same hating him personally as the embodiment of a threatening male dominance that they have had to put up with in their intimate familial relationships. In short, females voting for Trump perpetuate the ancient archetype of female subservience. In my humble opinion! So why are any female voters so profoundly stuck in this personal dilemma? Of rebelling against the dominance of a male establishment by voting for a fascist wanna-be dictator who exudes a shrunken and impotent sense of male dominance while he attacks the American Constitution? Perhaps those of you who are female can see more deeply into this contradiction than I can manage. The best I can suggest is to place this existential disturbance somewhere in the area of "cultural impoverishment", and perhaps in the category of being "spiritually vulnerable" to what we used to call "brainwashing". And thus resistant to reality-based messages that contradict personal beliefs that are determined by a myth system. I invite your responses. And if you're a registered voter, don't neglect to vote! Marshall Finally, I just can't get why any woman in our group would insist on trashing Kamala. Yet here's what Susan Fertig posted on Facebook: <457488282_2891520291010734_7975706897851416784_n.jpg> P.S. Maybe Trump thinks of the electoral college as another iteration of Trump University! A scam he can manipulate to get what he wants. <457488282_2891520291010734_7975706897851416784_n.jpg>_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE at lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE at lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net -- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From w.schlesinger at pvida.net Tue Oct 29 03:56:16 2024 From: w.schlesinger at pvida.net (w.schlesinger at pvida.net) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2024 04:56:16 -0600 Subject: [Oe List ...] Justin Morrill In-Reply-To: <4BBF61D2-AA6D-4236-8B70-C9A618BB7866@ehcaperton.com> References: <8E2AEEC5-E492-4FE5-AA8B-DB82B1B2E8B6@singouteileen.com> <4BBF61D2-AA6D-4236-8B70-C9A618BB7866@ehcaperton.com> Message-ID: <08b401db29f1$2e6cc8e0$8b465aa0$@pvida.net> Our first ?overseas? assignment was in the Kobe House (Later Osaka) with Justin and Del Morrill. We arrived young, and with Carol pregnant with John, our first child. We had so much to learn. Justin and Del were open, caring, and wonderful teachers. They introduced us to Japan with all its complexities and misunderstandings, and helped us become engaged with patience and warmth. They shared their own perplexities as well as the friendships they had developed. And we learned to tell the taxi drivers, ?Hai, koko desu? when we arrived at the house! Bill and Carol Schlesinger El Paso, Texas From: OE On Behalf Of Elizabeth Caperton via OE Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2024 11:32 AM To: Order Ecumenical Community Cc: Elizabeth Caperton Subject: [Oe List ...] Justin Morrill The Morrill family has asked me to share the following about Justin?s death. "Justin Irving Morrill died yesterday, October 26, at the age of 92. What a grand human he was! Pianist, husband, pastor, father, world changer and traveler, idealist, spiritual seeker, handyman, gardener, chef, fund raiser of many millions for education and Community Health Care, supporter of the arts, grandfather and great grandfather and, most of all, a wise counselor. He was all that and more. We are celebrating a life well lived. We have not yet set plans for a memorial but will communicate them when we do. Del?s address is 7290 Rosemount Circle, Apt 112 Tacoma 98465 She also can communicate pretty well via text and phone, less on email. (253) 365-1321 Thanks for your thoughts and prayers, The Morrill Family" -- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From judiwhite070 at gmail.com Tue Oct 29 06:48:53 2024 From: judiwhite070 at gmail.com (Judi White) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2024 09:48:53 -0400 Subject: [Oe List ...] bizarre In-Reply-To: <086401db29ef$45783530$d0689f90$@pvida.net> References: <5B11E0F3-6879-401A-8E9E-907575621603@yahoo.com> <086401db29ef$45783530$d0689f90$@pvida.net> Message-ID: October 27, 2024 (Sunday) I stand corrected. I thought this year?s October surprise was the reality that Trump?s mental state had slipped so badly he could not campaign in any coherent way. It turns out that the 2024 October surprise was the Trump campaign?s fascist rally at Madison Square Garden, a rally so extreme that Republicans running for office have been denouncing it all over social media tonight. There was never any question that this rally was going to be anything but an attempt to inflame Trump?s base. The plan for a rally at Madison Square Garden itself deliberately evoked its predecessor: a Nazi rally at the old Madison Square Garden on February 20, 1939. About 18,000 people showed up for that ?true Americanism? event, held on a stage that featured a huge portrait of George Washington in his Continental Army uniform flanked by swastikas. Like that earlier event, Trump?s rally was supposed to demonstrate power and inspire his base to violence. Apparently in anticipation of the Sunday rally, Trump on the previous Friday night replaced his signature blue suit and red tie with the black and gold of the neofascist Proud Boys. That extremist group was central to the January 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol and has been rebuilding to support Trump again in 2024. On Saturday the Trump campaign then released a list of 29 people set to be on the stage at the rally. Notably, the list was all MAGA Republicans, including vice presidential nominee Ohio senator J.D. Vance, House speaker Mike Johnson (LA), Representative Elise Stefanik (NY), Representative Byron Donalds (FL), Trump backer Elon Musk, Trump ally Rudy Giuliani, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., right-wing host Tucker Carlson, Trump sons Don Jr. and Eric, and Eric?s wife, Republican National Committee co-chair Lara Trump. Libbey Dean of NewsNation noted that none of the seven Republicans running in New York?s competitive House races were on the list. When asked why not, according to Dean, Trump senior advisor Jason Miller said: ?The demand, the request for people to speak, is quite extensive.? Asked if the campaign had turned down anyone who asked to speak, Miller said no. Meanwhile, the decision of the owners of the Los Angeles Times and the Washington Post not to endorse Democratic presidential candidate Vice President Kamala Harris seems to have sparked a backlash. As Will Bunch of the Philadelphia Inquirer noted, ?in a strange way the papers did perform a public service: showing American voters what life under a dictator would feel like.? Early on October 26, the Washington Post itself went after Trump backer billionaire Elon Musk with a major story highlighting the information that Musk, an immigrant from South Africa, had worked illegally when he started his career in the U.S. Musk ?did not have the legal right to work? in the U.S. when he started his first successful company. As part of the Trump campaign, Musk has emphasized his opposition to undocumented immigrants. The New York Times has tended to downplay Trump?s outrageous statements, but on Saturday it ran a round-up of Trump?s threats in the center of the front page, above the fold. It noted that Trump has vowed to expand presidential power, prosecute his political opponents, and crack down on immigration with mass deportations and detention camps. It went on to list his determination to undermine the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), use the U.S. military against Mexican drug cartels ?in potential violation of international law,? and use federal troops against U.S. citizens. It added that he plans to ?upend trade? with sweeping new tariffs that will raise consumer prices, and to rein in regulatory agencies. ?To help achieve these and other goals,? the paper concluded, ?his advisers are vetting lawyers seen as more likely to embrace aggressive legal theories about the scope of his power.? On Sunday the front page of the New York Times opinion section read, in giant capital letters: ?DONALD TRUMP/ SAYS HE WILL PROSECUTE HIS ENEMIES/ ORDER MASS DEPORTATIONS/ USE SOLDIERS AGAINST CITIZENS/ ABANDON ALLIES/ PLAY POLITICS WITH DISASTERS/ BELIEVE HIM.? And then, inside the section, the paper provided the receipts: Trump?s own words outlining his fascist plans. ?BELIEVE HIM,? the paper said. On CNN?s State of the Union this morning, host Jake Tapper refused to permit Trump?s running mate, Ohio senator J.D. Vance, to gaslight viewers. Vance angrily denied that Trump has repeatedly called for using the U.S. military against Americans, but Tapper came with receipts that proved the very things Vance denied. Trump?s rally at Madison Square Garden began in the early afternoon. The hateful performances of the early participants set the tone for the rally. Early on, comedian Tony Hinchcliffe, who goes by Kill Tony, delivered a steamingly racist set. He said, for example: ?There?s literally a floating island of garbage in the middle of the ocean right now. I think it?s called Puerto Rico.? He went on: ?And these Latinos, they love making babies too. Just know that. They do. They do. There?s no pulling out. They don?t do that. They come inside. Just like they did to our country.? Hinchcliffe also talked about Black people carving watermelons instead of pumpkins. The speakers who followed Hinchcliffe called Vice President Kamala Harris ?the Antichrist? and ?the devil.? They called former secretary of state Hillary Clinton ?a sick son of a b*tch,? and they railed against ?f*cking illegals.? They insulted Latinos generally, Black Americans, Palestinians and Jews. Trump advisor Stephen Miller?s claim that ?America is for Americans and Americans only? directly echoed the statement of Adolf Hitler that "Germany is for Germans and Germans only.? Trump took the stage about two hours late, prompting people to stream toward the exits before he finished speaking. He hit his usual highlights, notably undermining Vance?s argument from earlier in the day by saying that, indeed, he believes fellow Americans are ?the enemy within.? But Trump perhaps gave away the game with his inflammatory language and with an aside, seemingly aimed at House speaker Johnson. ?I think with our little secret we are gonna do really well with the House, right? Our little secret is having a big impact, he and I have a secret, we will tell you what it is when the race is over,? Trump said. It seems possible?probable, even?that Trump was alluding to putting in play the plan his people tried in 2020. That plan was to create enough chaos over the certification of electoral votes in the states to throw the election into the House of Representatives. There, each state delegation gets a single vote, so if the Republicans have control of more states than the Democrats, Trump could pull out a victory even if he had dramatically lost the popular vote. Since he has made virtually no effort to win votes in 2024, this seems his likely plan. But to do that, he needs at least a plausibly close election, or at least to convince his supporters that the election has been stolen from him. Tonight?s rally badly hurt that plan. As Hinchcliffe was talking about Puerto Rico as a floating island of garbage, Democratic presidential nominee Vice President Kamala Harris was at a Puerto Rican restaurant in Philadelphia talking about her plan to spread her opportunity economy to Puerto Rico. She has called for strengthening Puerto Rico?s energy grid and making it easier to get permits to build there. After the ?floating island of garbage? comment, Puerto Rican superstar musician Bad Bunny, who has more than 45 million followers on Instagram, posted Harris?s plan for Puerto Rico, and his spokesperson said he is endorsing Harris. Puerto Rican singer and actor Ricky Martin shared a clip from Hinchcliffe?s set with his 16 million followers. His caption read: ?This is what they think of us.? Singer and actress Jennifer Lopez, who has 250 million Instagram followers, posted Harris?s plan. Later, singer-songwriter and actress Ariana Grande posted that she had voted for Harris. Grande has 376 million followers on Instagram. Singer Luis Fonsi, who has 16 million followers, also called out the ?constant hate.? The headlines were brutal. ?MAGA speakers unleash ugly rhetoric at Trump's MSG rally,? read Axios. Politico wrote: ?Trump?s New York homecoming sparks backlash over racist and vulgar remarks.? ?Racist Remarks and Insults Mark Trump?s Madison Square Garden Rally,? the New York Times announced. ?Speakers at Trump rally make racist comments, hurl insults,? read CNN. But the biggest sign of the damage the rally did was the frantic backpedaling from Republicans in tight elections, who distanced themselves as fast as they could from the insults against Puerto Ricans, especially. The Trump campaign itself tried to distance itself from the ?floating island of garbage? quotation, only to be met with comments pointing out that Hinchcliffe?s set had been vetted and uploaded to the teleprompters. As the clips spread like wildfire, political writer Charlotte Clymer pointed out that almost 6 million Puerto Ricans live in the states?about a million in Florida, half a million in Pennsylvania, 100,000 in Georgia, 100,000 in Michigan, 100,000 in North Carolina, 45,000 in Arizona, and 40,000 in Nevada?and that over half of them voted in 2020. In 1939, as about 18,000 American Nazis rallied inside Madison Square Garden, newspapers reported that a crowd of about 100,000 anti-Nazis gathered outside to protest. It took 1,700 police officers, the largest number of officers ever before detailed for a single event, to hold them back from storming the venue. On Tue, Oct 29, 2024, 6:42 AM Bill Schlesinger via OE < oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: > It?s hard to respond point by point to demonstrably false statements and > charges. COVID was so much more destructive than it needed to have been ? > largely due to Trump?s refusal to deal with the science and politicizing > responses. The resistance to immunizations, use of masking (common in > other parts of the world) ? well, you get the point. Illusory claims of > ?greatness? are just that. > > > > We may see a Trump victory. And we need to be prepared to stay at the > center, to understand that the order of things in the systems will continue > to be a process of persons seeking to create a ?visionary dream? ? to quote > Bonhoeffer ? and persons seeking to do what it caring and responsible. And > this is true whether or not we see a Trump victory. We?ll have to work in > that world as we do now, with an understanding that we will not conquer by > destroying an enemy but by being who we are called to be. > > > > Personally, we?ve contributed, voted, and spoken as clearly as we can in > the networks and relationships we have. But our ?heroes? aren?t the ones > who overthrew a tyranny. Our ?heroes? are those who cared and sustained > even while marginalized and attacked. ?Lest Innocent Blood be Shed? is an > account of a village that sheltered Jews in France ? and did so while being > gentle with the Vichy forces. That led to warnings before raids as even > those in the Vichy regime chose to care. > > > > Again, FWIW. > > > > Bill > > > > *From:* James Wiegel > *Sent:* Monday, October 28, 2024 8:35 PM > *To:* Order Ecumenical Community > *Cc:* w.schlesinger at pvida.net; Mari Crocker > *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] bizarre > > > > Watching the world series, I am hit by ads similar to the post forwarded > by Susan ? 3 1/2 years in office and things didn?t get done and now they > will ?I dont know how to respond to that ? help > > Jim Wiegel > > ??the long work > of turning their lives > into a celebration > is not easy. Come and let us talk?. > > The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver > > > > On Oct 28, 2024, at 5:00?PM, Mari Crocker via OE > wrote: > > ?Amen! Dear friend, Bill. Thank you for this, and many other insightful > comments you have shared over the years. Fond memories of the time Joe and > I spent with your family, way back, when you were discerning your call. > Fondly, Marilyn > > > > On Oct 28, 2024, at 7:22 PM, < > w.schlesinger at pvida.net> wrote: > > > > The vice-presidential candidate studied Rene Girard?s work ? and betrayed > it. He?s taken mimetic desire (I want what I see others having) and > scapegoating (if we get rid of ?them? we?ll solve our problems, so let us > link arms and attack ?them?) as recipes for victory instead of the driver > for and betrayal of innocent suffering that Girard describes. > > > > Trump creates the incredibly powerful tool that ended up crucifying Jesus > ? and in so doing, disclosed the horror and emptiness of that for the > future. And as has been seen, when one ?they? has been disposed, the tool > must find another ? and turns on itself in a cannibalistic process of > eating its own. Thus the ?RINO? charge. > > > > Rubbing raw the sores of discontent can lead to this kind of destruction ? > and in an angry rejection of other values. Attacking it in kind only > strengthens the method. Unfortunately, innocent suffering is the only tool > that stops it ? at cost. Thus the nonviolence movements of Gandhi and MLK > Jr. and others? > > > > My two cents. > > > > Bill Schlesinger > > > > *From:* OE *On Behalf Of *Mari Crocker > via OE > *Sent:* Monday, October 28, 2024 5:06 PM > *To:* Order Ecumenical Community > *Cc:* Mari Crocker > *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] bizarre > > > > Hi W.J and other colleagues > > > > I appreciate your analysis, and would add to your assessment of a > ?cultural backlash against cultural change? and ?the perpetuation of the > ancient archetype of female subservience,? the side-effects (like those of > a deleterious drug) of "the abused woman syndrome". > > > > My sister typifies the abused woman, who continued to submit to abuse by > ?staying in the marriage for the sake of the kids", and when she shook > loose of marital abuse, she submitted to abuse by her sons, who of course > learned from the role model of their father. One son did it by direct > physical and emotional demeaning; the other by distancing himself > geographically and abdicating any ?hands-on? support to his mother when she > was diagnosed with dementia, save for an occasional phone call. > > > > However, despite her dementia, my sister cast her absentee ballot for > Kamala. Even with dementia she saw the light. > > > > Marilyn > > > > > > > > > On Oct 28, 2024, at 5:45 PM, W. J. via OE wrote: > > > > We're in the closing days of the most bizarre U.S. election campaign in my > memory. According to Barack, N.C. Lt. Gov. Robinson, the Repugnant > candidate for governor, is a self-described "Black Nazi" who wants to bring > back slavery. > > I know that one's hard to beat! > > But it gets worse! > > Robinson will be defeated on November 5, rather than riding into the > governor's mansion on the coattails of Trump's predicted N.C. victory. > > But here's what's worse: > > Trump could narrowly win in the electoral college while losing the popular > vote. > > Or he could narrowly lose the election, refuse to concede, and contest the > election by casting doubt on its legitimacy and creating chaos in the > electoral college, throwing the election to the House of Representatives. > > The critical voter block that will guarantee either outcome are female > Trump voters, almost all of whom are white, and most of whom are not > college graduates and are predominantly postmenopausal. > > This raises what is for me a burning question: why would *any woman* vote > for Trump? > > And especially any woman who could conceive? > > Why would any woman not deeply understand that she is personally under > threat the second *any other woman* is personally under threat? > > As well as being a member of a large group that is now directly under > attack? > > I just don't get it. > > So, given the racial and gender gap in the American electorate, even if > *every* white male voted for Donald Trump, he would *have to lose* if > every female plus every person of color voted for Kamala. Right? > > Based on this logic, the reality that I just can't predict that Trump will > lose is deeply disturbing. > > So I've tried to plumb the mystery of why *any* female (including my > sister, who has voted for Trump twice before) would be determined to vote > for Trump despite all the indisputable evidence that electing Trump in 2024 > would be disastrous. > > I think it comes down to this: *a cultural backlash against global change > that is perceived as both virtually inevitable and threatening to the > survival of their traditional female gender identity roles.* > > This perception of a diffuse but global threat to their sense of security > in their traditional sense of self can lead female Trump voters to > unconsciously self-destructive behavior, in that they can vote for Trump > while at the same hating him personally as the embodiment of a threatening > male dominance that they have had to put up with in their intimate familial > relationships. > > In short, females voting for Trump perpetuate the ancient archetype of > female subservience. > > In my humble opinion! > > So why are any female voters so profoundly stuck in this personal dilemma? > Of rebelling against the dominance of a male establishment by voting for a > fascist wanna-be dictator who exudes a shrunken and impotent sense of male > dominance while he attacks the American Constitution? > > Perhaps those of you who are female can see more deeply into this > contradiction than I can manage. > > The best I can suggest is to place this existential disturbance somewhere > in the area of "cultural impoverishment", and perhaps in the category of > being "spiritually vulnerable" to what we used to call "brainwashing". And > thus resistant to reality-based messages that contradict personal beliefs > that are determined by a myth system. > > I invite your responses. > > And if you're a registered voter, don't neglect to vote! > > > > Marshall > > > > Finally, I just can't get why any woman in our group would insist on > trashing Kamala. Yet here's what Susan Fertig posted on Facebook: > > > > <457488282_2891520291010734_7975706897851416784_n.jpg> > > > > P.S. Maybe Trump thinks of the electoral college as another iteration of > Trump University! A scam he can manipulate to get what he wants. > > > > > <457488282_2891520291010734_7975706897851416784_n.jpg>_______________________________________________ > OE mailing list > OE at lists.wedgeblade.net > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain > confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged > and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including > the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are > not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, > copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have > received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by > reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without > reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you > > > _______________________________________________ > OE mailing list > OE at lists.wedgeblade.net > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain > confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged > and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including > the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are > not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, > copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have > received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by > reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without > reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you > _______________________________________________ > OE mailing list > OE at lists.wedgeblade.net > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nlt462 at gmail.com Tue Oct 29 07:11:20 2024 From: nlt462 at gmail.com (Nancy Trask) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2024 09:11:20 -0500 Subject: [Oe List ...] bizarre In-Reply-To: References: <5B11E0F3-6879-401A-8E9E-907575621603@yahoo.com> <086401db29ef$45783530$d0689f90$@pvida.net> Message-ID: Thanks Judi, from Heather Cox Richardson?s column. She keeps me halfway sane these days! Nancy On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 8:49?AM Judi White via OE wrote: > October 27, 2024 (Sunday) > > I stand corrected. I thought this year?s October surprise was the reality > that Trump?s mental state had slipped so badly he could not campaign in any > coherent way. > > It turns out that the 2024 October surprise was the Trump campaign?s > fascist rally at Madison Square Garden, a rally so extreme that Republicans > running for office have been denouncing it all over social media tonight. > > There was never any question that this rally was going to be anything but > an attempt to inflame Trump?s base. The plan for a rally at Madison Square > Garden itself deliberately evoked its predecessor: a Nazi rally at the old > Madison Square Garden on February 20, 1939. About 18,000 people showed up > for that ?true Americanism? event, held on a stage that featured a huge > portrait of George Washington in his Continental Army uniform flanked by > swastikas. > > Like that earlier event, Trump?s rally was supposed to demonstrate power > and inspire his base to violence. > > Apparently in anticipation of the Sunday rally, Trump on the previous > Friday night replaced his signature blue suit and red tie with the black > and gold of the neofascist Proud Boys. That extremist group was central to > the January 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol and has been rebuilding to > support Trump again in 2024. > > On Saturday the Trump campaign then released a list of 29 people set to be > on the stage at the rally. Notably, the list was all MAGA Republicans, > including vice presidential nominee Ohio senator J.D. Vance, House speaker > Mike Johnson (LA), Representative Elise Stefanik (NY), Representative Byron > Donalds (FL), Trump backer Elon Musk, Trump ally Rudy Giuliani, Robert F. > Kennedy Jr., right-wing host Tucker Carlson, Trump sons Don Jr. and Eric, > and Eric?s wife, Republican National Committee co-chair Lara Trump. > > Libbey Dean of NewsNation noted that none of the seven Republicans running > in New York?s competitive House races were on the list. When asked why not, > according to Dean, Trump senior advisor Jason Miller said: ?The demand, the > request for people to speak, is quite extensive.? Asked if the campaign had > turned down anyone who asked to speak, Miller said no. > > Meanwhile, the decision of the owners of the Los Angeles Times and the > Washington Post not to endorse Democratic presidential candidate Vice > President Kamala Harris seems to have sparked a backlash. As Will Bunch of > the Philadelphia Inquirer noted, ?in a strange way the papers did perform a > public service: showing American voters what life under a dictator would > feel like.? > > Early on October 26, the Washington Post itself went after Trump backer > billionaire Elon Musk with a major story highlighting the information that > Musk, an immigrant from South Africa, had worked illegally when he started > his career in the U.S. Musk ?did not have the legal right to work? in the > U.S. when he started his first successful company. As part of the Trump > campaign, Musk has emphasized his opposition to undocumented immigrants. > > The New York Times has tended to downplay Trump?s outrageous statements, > but on Saturday it ran a round-up of Trump?s threats in the center of the > front page, above the fold. It noted that Trump has vowed to expand > presidential power, prosecute his political opponents, and crack down on > immigration with mass deportations and detention camps. It went on to list > his determination to undermine the North Atlantic Treaty Organization > (NATO), use the U.S. military against Mexican drug cartels ?in potential > violation of international law,? and use federal troops against U.S. > citizens. It added that he plans to ?upend trade? with sweeping new tariffs > that will raise consumer prices, and to rein in regulatory agencies. > > ?To help achieve these and other goals,? the paper concluded, ?his > advisers are vetting lawyers seen as more likely to embrace aggressive > legal theories about the scope of his power.? > > On Sunday the front page of the New York Times opinion section read, in > giant capital letters: ?DONALD TRUMP/ SAYS HE WILL PROSECUTE HIS ENEMIES/ > ORDER MASS DEPORTATIONS/ USE SOLDIERS AGAINST CITIZENS/ ABANDON ALLIES/ > PLAY POLITICS WITH DISASTERS/ BELIEVE HIM.? And then, inside the section, > the paper provided the receipts: Trump?s own words outlining his fascist > plans. ?BELIEVE HIM,? the paper said. > > On CNN?s State of the Union this morning, host Jake Tapper refused to > permit Trump?s running mate, Ohio senator J.D. Vance, to gaslight viewers. > Vance angrily denied that Trump has repeatedly called for using the U.S. > military against Americans, but Tapper came with receipts that proved the > very things Vance denied. > > Trump?s rally at Madison Square Garden began in the early afternoon. The > hateful performances of the early participants set the tone for the rally. > Early on, comedian Tony Hinchcliffe, who goes by Kill Tony, delivered a > steamingly racist set. He said, for example: ?There?s literally a floating > island of garbage in the middle of the ocean right now. I think it?s called > Puerto Rico.? He went on: ?And these Latinos, they love making babies too. > Just know that. They do. They do. There?s no pulling out. They don?t do > that. They come inside. Just like they did to our country.? Hinchcliffe > also talked about Black people carving watermelons instead of pumpkins. > > The speakers who followed Hinchcliffe called Vice President Kamala Harris > ?the Antichrist? and ?the devil.? They called former secretary of state > Hillary Clinton ?a sick son of a b*tch,? and they railed against ?f*cking > illegals.? They insulted Latinos generally, Black Americans, Palestinians > and Jews. Trump advisor Stephen Miller?s claim that ?America is for > Americans and Americans only? directly echoed the statement of Adolf Hitler > that "Germany is for Germans and Germans only.? > > Trump took the stage about two hours late, prompting people to stream > toward the exits before he finished speaking. He hit his usual highlights, > notably undermining Vance?s argument from earlier in the day by saying > that, indeed, he believes fellow Americans are ?the enemy within.? > > But Trump perhaps gave away the game with his inflammatory language and > with an aside, seemingly aimed at House speaker Johnson. ?I think with our > little secret we are gonna do really well with the House, right? Our little > secret is having a big impact, he and I have a secret, we will tell you > what it is when the race is over,? Trump said. > > It seems possible?probable, even?that Trump was alluding to putting in > play the plan his people tried in 2020. That plan was to create enough > chaos over the certification of electoral votes in the states to throw the > election into the House of Representatives. There, each state delegation > gets a single vote, so if the Republicans have control of more states than > the Democrats, Trump could pull out a victory even if he had dramatically > lost the popular vote. > > Since he has made virtually no effort to win votes in 2024, this seems his > likely plan. > > But to do that, he needs at least a plausibly close election, or at least > to convince his supporters that the election has been stolen from him. > Tonight?s rally badly hurt that plan. > > As Hinchcliffe was talking about Puerto Rico as a floating island of > garbage, Democratic presidential nominee Vice President Kamala Harris was > at a Puerto Rican restaurant in Philadelphia talking about her plan to > spread her opportunity economy to Puerto Rico. She has called for > strengthening Puerto Rico?s energy grid and making it easier to get permits > to build there. > > After the ?floating island of garbage? comment, Puerto Rican superstar > musician Bad Bunny, who has more than 45 million followers on Instagram, > posted Harris?s plan for Puerto Rico, and his spokesperson said he is > endorsing Harris. > > Puerto Rican singer and actor Ricky Martin shared a clip from > Hinchcliffe?s set with his 16 million followers. His caption read: ?This is > what they think of us.? Singer and actress Jennifer Lopez, who has 250 > million Instagram followers, posted Harris?s plan. Later, singer-songwriter > and actress Ariana Grande posted that she had voted for Harris. Grande has > 376 million followers on Instagram. Singer Luis Fonsi, who has 16 million > followers, also called out the ?constant hate.? > > The headlines were brutal. ?MAGA speakers unleash ugly rhetoric at Trump's > MSG rally,? read Axios. Politico wrote: ?Trump?s New York homecoming sparks > backlash over racist and vulgar remarks.? ?Racist Remarks and Insults Mark > Trump?s Madison Square Garden Rally,? the New York Times announced. > ?Speakers at Trump rally make racist comments, hurl insults,? read CNN. > > But the biggest sign of the damage the rally did was the frantic > backpedaling from Republicans in tight elections, who distanced themselves > as fast as they could from the insults against Puerto Ricans, especially. > The Trump campaign itself tried to distance itself from the ?floating > island of garbage? quotation, only to be met with comments pointing out > that Hinchcliffe?s set had been vetted and uploaded to the teleprompters. > > As the clips spread like wildfire, political writer Charlotte Clymer > pointed out that almost 6 million Puerto Ricans live in the states?about a > million in Florida, half a million in Pennsylvania, 100,000 in Georgia, > 100,000 in Michigan, 100,000 in North Carolina, 45,000 in Arizona, and > 40,000 in Nevada?and that over half of them voted in 2020. > > In 1939, as about 18,000 American Nazis rallied inside Madison Square > Garden, newspapers reported that a crowd of about 100,000 anti-Nazis > gathered outside to protest. It took 1,700 police officers, the largest > number of officers ever before detailed for a single event, to hold them > back from storming the venue. > > On Tue, Oct 29, 2024, 6:42 AM Bill Schlesinger via OE < > oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: > >> It?s hard to respond point by point to demonstrably false statements and >> charges. COVID was so much more destructive than it needed to have been ? >> largely due to Trump?s refusal to deal with the science and politicizing >> responses. The resistance to immunizations, use of masking (common in >> other parts of the world) ? well, you get the point. Illusory claims of >> ?greatness? are just that. >> >> >> >> We may see a Trump victory. And we need to be prepared to stay at the >> center, to understand that the order of things in the systems will continue >> to be a process of persons seeking to create a ?visionary dream? ? to quote >> Bonhoeffer ? and persons seeking to do what it caring and responsible. And >> this is true whether or not we see a Trump victory. We?ll have to work in >> that world as we do now, with an understanding that we will not conquer by >> destroying an enemy but by being who we are called to be. >> >> >> >> Personally, we?ve contributed, voted, and spoken as clearly as we can in >> the networks and relationships we have. But our ?heroes? aren?t the ones >> who overthrew a tyranny. Our ?heroes? are those who cared and sustained >> even while marginalized and attacked. ?Lest Innocent Blood be Shed? is an >> account of a village that sheltered Jews in France ? and did so while being >> gentle with the Vichy forces. That led to warnings before raids as even >> those in the Vichy regime chose to care. >> >> >> >> Again, FWIW. >> >> >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> *From:* James Wiegel >> *Sent:* Monday, October 28, 2024 8:35 PM >> *To:* Order Ecumenical Community >> *Cc:* w.schlesinger at pvida.net; Mari Crocker >> *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] bizarre >> >> >> >> Watching the world series, I am hit by ads similar to the post forwarded >> by Susan ? 3 1/2 years in office and things didn?t get done and now they >> will ?I dont know how to respond to that ? help >> >> Jim Wiegel >> >> ??the long work >> of turning their lives >> into a celebration >> is not easy. Come and let us talk?. >> >> The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver >> >> >> >> On Oct 28, 2024, at 5:00?PM, Mari Crocker via OE >> wrote: >> >> ?Amen! Dear friend, Bill. Thank you for this, and many other insightful >> comments you have shared over the years. Fond memories of the time Joe and >> I spent with your family, way back, when you were discerning your call. >> Fondly, Marilyn >> >> >> >> On Oct 28, 2024, at 7:22 PM, < >> w.schlesinger at pvida.net> wrote: >> >> >> >> The vice-presidential candidate studied Rene Girard?s work ? and betrayed >> it. He?s taken mimetic desire (I want what I see others having) and >> scapegoating (if we get rid of ?them? we?ll solve our problems, so let us >> link arms and attack ?them?) as recipes for victory instead of the driver >> for and betrayal of innocent suffering that Girard describes. >> >> >> >> Trump creates the incredibly powerful tool that ended up crucifying Jesus >> ? and in so doing, disclosed the horror and emptiness of that for the >> future. And as has been seen, when one ?they? has been disposed, the tool >> must find another ? and turns on itself in a cannibalistic process of >> eating its own. Thus the ?RINO? charge. >> >> >> >> Rubbing raw the sores of discontent can lead to this kind of destruction >> ? and in an angry rejection of other values. Attacking it in kind only >> strengthens the method. Unfortunately, innocent suffering is the only tool >> that stops it ? at cost. Thus the nonviolence movements of Gandhi and MLK >> Jr. and others? >> >> >> >> My two cents. >> >> >> >> Bill Schlesinger >> >> >> >> *From:* OE *On Behalf Of *Mari Crocker >> via OE >> *Sent:* Monday, October 28, 2024 5:06 PM >> *To:* Order Ecumenical Community >> *Cc:* Mari Crocker >> *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] bizarre >> >> >> >> Hi W.J and other colleagues >> >> >> >> I appreciate your analysis, and would add to your assessment of a >> ?cultural backlash against cultural change? and ?the perpetuation of the >> ancient archetype of female subservience,? the side-effects (like those of >> a deleterious drug) of "the abused woman syndrome". >> >> >> >> My sister typifies the abused woman, who continued to submit to abuse by >> ?staying in the marriage for the sake of the kids", and when she shook >> loose of marital abuse, she submitted to abuse by her sons, who of course >> learned from the role model of their father. One son did it by direct >> physical and emotional demeaning; the other by distancing himself >> geographically and abdicating any ?hands-on? support to his mother when she >> was diagnosed with dementia, save for an occasional phone call. >> >> >> >> However, despite her dementia, my sister cast her absentee ballot for >> Kamala. Even with dementia she saw the light. >> >> >> >> Marilyn >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Oct 28, 2024, at 5:45 PM, W. J. via OE >> wrote: >> >> >> >> We're in the closing days of the most bizarre U.S. election campaign in >> my memory. According to Barack, N.C. Lt. Gov. Robinson, the Repugnant >> candidate for governor, is a self-described "Black Nazi" who wants to bring >> back slavery. >> >> I know that one's hard to beat! >> >> But it gets worse! >> >> Robinson will be defeated on November 5, rather than riding into the >> governor's mansion on the coattails of Trump's predicted N.C. victory. >> >> But here's what's worse: >> >> Trump could narrowly win in the electoral college while losing the >> popular vote. >> >> Or he could narrowly lose the election, refuse to concede, and contest >> the election by casting doubt on its legitimacy and creating chaos in the >> electoral college, throwing the election to the House of Representatives. >> >> The critical voter block that will guarantee either outcome are female >> Trump voters, almost all of whom are white, and most of whom are not >> college graduates and are predominantly postmenopausal. >> >> This raises what is for me a burning question: why would *any woman* vote >> for Trump? >> >> And especially any woman who could conceive? >> >> Why would any woman not deeply understand that she is personally under >> threat the second *any other woman* is personally under threat? >> >> As well as being a member of a large group that is now directly under >> attack? >> >> I just don't get it. >> >> So, given the racial and gender gap in the American electorate, even if >> *every* white male voted for Donald Trump, he would *have to lose* if >> every female plus every person of color voted for Kamala. Right? >> >> Based on this logic, the reality that I just can't predict that Trump >> will lose is deeply disturbing. >> >> So I've tried to plumb the mystery of why *any* female (including my >> sister, who has voted for Trump twice before) would be determined to vote >> for Trump despite all the indisputable evidence that electing Trump in 2024 >> would be disastrous. >> >> I think it comes down to this: *a cultural backlash against global >> change that is perceived as both virtually inevitable and threatening to >> the survival of their traditional female gender identity roles.* >> >> This perception of a diffuse but global threat to their sense of security >> in their traditional sense of self can lead female Trump voters to >> unconsciously self-destructive behavior, in that they can vote for Trump >> while at the same hating him personally as the embodiment of a threatening >> male dominance that they have had to put up with in their intimate familial >> relationships. >> >> In short, females voting for Trump perpetuate the ancient archetype of >> female subservience. >> >> In my humble opinion! >> >> So why are any female voters so profoundly stuck in this personal >> dilemma? Of rebelling against the dominance of a male establishment by >> voting for a fascist wanna-be dictator who exudes a shrunken and impotent >> sense of male dominance while he attacks the American Constitution? >> >> Perhaps those of you who are female can see more deeply into this >> contradiction than I can manage. >> >> The best I can suggest is to place this existential disturbance somewhere >> in the area of "cultural impoverishment", and perhaps in the category of >> being "spiritually vulnerable" to what we used to call "brainwashing". And >> thus resistant to reality-based messages that contradict personal beliefs >> that are determined by a myth system. >> >> I invite your responses. >> >> And if you're a registered voter, don't neglect to vote! >> >> >> >> Marshall >> >> >> >> Finally, I just can't get why any woman in our group would insist on >> trashing Kamala. Yet here's what Susan Fertig posted on Facebook: >> >> >> >> <457488282_2891520291010734_7975706897851416784_n.jpg> >> >> >> >> P.S. Maybe Trump thinks of the electoral college as another iteration of >> Trump University! A scam he can manipulate to get what he wants. >> >> >> >> >> <457488282_2891520291010734_7975706897851416784_n.jpg>_______________________________________________ >> OE mailing list >> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net >> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net >> >> >> >> >> >> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain >> confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged >> and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including >> the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are >> not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, >> copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have >> received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by >> reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without >> reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OE mailing list >> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net >> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net >> >> >> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain >> confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged >> and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including >> the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are >> not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, >> copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have >> received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by >> reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without >> reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you >> _______________________________________________ >> OE mailing list >> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net >> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net >> > _______________________________________________ > OE mailing list > OE at lists.wedgeblade.net > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfwiegel at yahoo.com Tue Oct 29 07:43:25 2024 From: jfwiegel at yahoo.com (James Wiegel) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2024 07:43:25 -0700 Subject: [Oe List ...] bizarre In-Reply-To: <086401db29ef$45783530$d0689f90$@pvida.net> References: <086401db29ef$45783530$d0689f90$@pvida.net> Message-ID: <7EB412B8-F2BA-4456-8282-7621022EB9BE@yahoo.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wandah70 at gmail.com Tue Oct 29 08:43:03 2024 From: wandah70 at gmail.com (Holcombe Wanda) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2024 10:43:03 -0500 Subject: [Oe List ...] bizarre In-Reply-To: <7EB412B8-F2BA-4456-8282-7621022EB9BE@yahoo.com> References: <7EB412B8-F2BA-4456-8282-7621022EB9BE@yahoo.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfwiegel at yahoo.com Tue Oct 29 10:13:54 2024 From: jfwiegel at yahoo.com (James Wiegel) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2024 10:13:54 -0700 Subject: [Oe List ...] bizarre In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <66C7C697-97D2-4161-8903-6A5304D1CB00@yahoo.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From onedonbushman at gmail.com Tue Oct 29 13:32:35 2024 From: onedonbushman at gmail.com (Don Bushman) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2024 14:32:35 -0600 Subject: [Oe List ...] bizarre In-Reply-To: <66C7C697-97D2-4161-8903-6A5304D1CB00@yahoo.com> References: <66C7C697-97D2-4161-8903-6A5304D1CB00@yahoo.com> Message-ID: I dare to suggest that the way transformation happens?often through an external event causing an existential crisis from which we try to escape?is writ large in our moment in history. There are some among us who suggest we are at a 500-year turning point, and new historical perspectives are either on the horizon or just over its edge. Such a change in the past has provoked massive resistance. The Pandora meme suggests that once opened, it can never be closed. We are now a global village?look at the existing global economic infrastructure. I believe what is happening with AI is the cultural infrastructure of this global village. The national alliances in the West, East, and South will force, in my humble opinion (IMHO), a global village political infrastructure. Maybe not in my lifetime, but it is coming. I long ago found developing nations' adoption of Marx somewhat paradoxical because Marx focused on industrialized nations' paths of development. I wonder who in the industrialized nations read and saw their demise in such development and promptly demonized Marx's insights. What exciting times we live in, and what incredible eyeglasses we have developed to taste the richness of life. 828-292-9696 On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 1:37?PM James Wiegel via OE wrote: > Still?? I recall conversations with you and others as far back as 1968 ? > Jim Wiegel > > ??the long work > of turning their lives > into a celebration > is not easy. Come and let us talk?. > > The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver > > On Oct 29, 2024, at 8:43?AM, Holcombe Wanda wrote: > > ?I believe we are in a global cultural malaise and Believe it is in > someway as Marilyn shared: > *a cultural backlash against global change that is perceived as both > virtually inevitable and threatening to the survival of their traditional > female gender identity** roles.* > > I also since it is also an emerging identity crisis for the male globally > also. I don?t remember the figure but it was shared yesterday that 40,000 > men committed suicide this year for various reasons. > > Whoever wins this election?.I perceive it will be up to both the female > and male globally to create the new human being and global society. > > I hope to they have to be 100 to be a part of that and see what the new > human looks like an act like the new GLOBAL CITIZEN?. > Wanda ??? > Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 29, 2024, at 9:43?AM, James Wiegel via OE > wrote: > > ?Thanks > Jim Wiegel > > ??the long work > of turning their lives > into a celebration > is not easy. Come and let us talk?. > > The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver > > On Oct 29, 2024, at 3:42?AM, w.schlesinger at pvida.net wrote: > > ? > > It?s hard to respond point by point to demonstrably false statements and > charges. COVID was so much more destructive than it needed to have been ? > largely due to Trump?s refusal to deal with the science and politicizing > responses. The resistance to immunizations, use of masking (common in > other parts of the world) ? well, you get the point. Illusory claims of > ?greatness? are just that. > > > > We may see a Trump victory. And we need to be prepared to stay at the > center, to understand that the order of things in the systems will continue > to be a process of persons seeking to create a ?visionary dream? ? to quote > Bonhoeffer ? and persons seeking to do what it caring and responsible. And > this is true whether or not we see a Trump victory. We?ll have to work in > that world as we do now, with an understanding that we will not conquer by > destroying an enemy but by being who we are called to be. > > > > Personally, we?ve contributed, voted, and spoken as clearly as we can in > the networks and relationships we have. But our ?heroes? aren?t the ones > who overthrew a tyranny. Our ?heroes? are those who cared and sustained > even while marginalized and attacked. ?Lest Innocent Blood be Shed? is an > account of a village that sheltered Jews in France ? and did so while being > gentle with the Vichy forces. That led to warnings before raids as even > those in the Vichy regime chose to care. > > > > Again, FWIW. > > > > Bill > > > > *From:* James Wiegel > *Sent:* Monday, October 28, 2024 8:35 PM > *To:* Order Ecumenical Community > *Cc:* w.schlesinger at pvida.net; Mari Crocker > *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] bizarre > > > > Watching the world series, I am hit by ads similar to the post forwarded > by Susan ? 3 1/2 years in office and things didn?t get done and now they > will ?I dont know how to respond to that ? help > > Jim Wiegel > > ??the long work > of turning their lives > into a celebration > is not easy. Come and let us talk?. > > The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver > > > > On Oct 28, 2024, at 5:00?PM, Mari Crocker via OE > wrote: > > ?Amen! Dear friend, Bill. Thank you for this, and many other insightful > comments you have shared over the years. Fond memories of the time Joe and > I spent with your family, way back, when you were discerning your call. > Fondly, Marilyn > > > > On Oct 28, 2024, at 7:22 PM, < > w.schlesinger at pvida.net> wrote: > > > > The vice-presidential candidate studied Rene Girard?s work ? and betrayed > it. He?s taken mimetic desire (I want what I see others having) and > scapegoating (if we get rid of ?them? we?ll solve our problems, so let us > link arms and attack ?them?) as recipes for victory instead of the driver > for and betrayal of innocent suffering that Girard describes. > > > > Trump creates the incredibly powerful tool that ended up crucifying Jesus > ? and in so doing, disclosed the horror and emptiness of that for the > future. And as has been seen, when one ?they? has been disposed, the tool > must find another ? and turns on itself in a cannibalistic process of > eating its own. Thus the ?RINO? charge. > > > > Rubbing raw the sores of discontent can lead to this kind of destruction ? > and in an angry rejection of other values. Attacking it in kind only > strengthens the method. Unfortunately, innocent suffering is the only tool > that stops it ? at cost. Thus the nonviolence movements of Gandhi and MLK > Jr. and others? > > > > My two cents. > > > > Bill Schlesinger > > > > *From:* OE *On Behalf Of *Mari Crocker > via OE > *Sent:* Monday, October 28, 2024 5:06 PM > *To:* Order Ecumenical Community > *Cc:* Mari Crocker > *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] bizarre > > > > Hi W.J and other colleagues > > > > I appreciate your analysis, and would add to your assessment of a > ?cultural backlash against cultural change? and ?the perpetuation of the > ancient archetype of female subservience,? the side-effects (like those of > a deleterious drug) of "the abused woman syndrome". > > > > My sister typifies the abused woman, who continued to submit to abuse by > ?staying in the marriage for the sake of the kids", and when she shook > loose of marital abuse, she submitted to abuse by her sons, who of course > learned from the role model of their father. One son did it by direct > physical and emotional demeaning; the other by distancing himself > geographically and abdicating any ?hands-on? support to his mother when she > was diagnosed with dementia, save for an occasional phone call. > > > > However, despite her dementia, my sister cast her absentee ballot for > Kamala. Even with dementia she saw the light. > > > > Marilyn > > > > > > > > > On Oct 28, 2024, at 5:45 PM, W. J. via OE wrote: > > > > We're in the closing days of the most bizarre U.S. election campaign in my > memory. According to Barack, N.C. Lt. Gov. Robinson, the Repugnant > candidate for governor, is a self-described "Black Nazi" who wants to bring > back slavery. > > I know that one's hard to beat! > > But it gets worse! > > Robinson will be defeated on November 5, rather than riding into the > governor's mansion on the coattails of Trump's predicted N.C. victory. > > But here's what's worse: > > Trump could narrowly win in the electoral college while losing the popular > vote. > > Or he could narrowly lose the election, refuse to concede, and contest the > election by casting doubt on its legitimacy and creating chaos in the > electoral college, throwing the election to the House of Representatives. > > The critical voter block that will guarantee either outcome are female > Trump voters, almost all of whom are white, and most of whom are not > college graduates and are predominantly postmenopausal. > > This raises what is for me a burning question: why would *any woman* vote > for Trump? > > And especially any woman who could conceive? > > Why would any woman not deeply understand that she is personally under > threat the second *any other woman* is personally under threat? > > As well as being a member of a large group that is now directly under > attack? > > I just don't get it. > > So, given the racial and gender gap in the American electorate, even if > *every* white male voted for Donald Trump, he would *have to lose* if > every female plus every person of color voted for Kamala. Right? > > Based on this logic, the reality that I just can't predict that Trump will > lose is deeply disturbing. > > So I've tried to plumb the mystery of why *any* female (including my > sister, who has voted for Trump twice before) would be determined to vote > for Trump despite all the indisputable evidence that electing Trump in 2024 > would be disastrous. > > I think it comes down to this: *a cultural backlash against global change > that is perceived as both virtually inevitable and threatening to the > survival of their traditional female gender identity roles.* > > This perception of a diffuse but global threat to their sense of security > in their traditional sense of self can lead female Trump voters to > unconsciously self-destructive behavior, in that they can vote for Trump > while at the same hating him personally as the embodiment of a threatening > male dominance that they have had to put up with in their intimate familial > relationships. > > In short, females voting for Trump perpetuate the ancient archetype of > female subservience. > > In my humble opinion! > > So why are any female voters so profoundly stuck in this personal dilemma? > Of rebelling against the dominance of a male establishment by voting for a > fascist wanna-be dictator who exudes a shrunken and impotent sense of male > dominance while he attacks the American Constitution? > > Perhaps those of you who are female can see more deeply into this > contradiction than I can manage. > > The best I can suggest is to place this existential disturbance somewhere > in the area of "cultural impoverishment", and perhaps in the category of > being "spiritually vulnerable" to what we used to call "brainwashing". And > thus resistant to reality-based messages that contradict personal beliefs > that are determined by a myth system. > > I invite your responses. > > And if you're a registered voter, don't neglect to vote! > > > > Marshall > > > > Finally, I just can't get why any woman in our group would insist on > trashing Kamala. Yet here's what Susan Fertig posted on Facebook: > > > > <457488282_2891520291010734_7975706897851416784_n.jpg> > > > > P.S. Maybe Trump thinks of the electoral college as another iteration of > Trump University! A scam he can manipulate to get what he wants. > > > > > <457488282_2891520291010734_7975706897851416784_n.jpg>_______________________________________________ > OE mailing list > OE at lists.wedgeblade.net > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain > confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged > and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including > the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are > not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, > copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have > received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by > reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without > reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you > > > _______________________________________________ > OE mailing list > OE at lists.wedgeblade.net > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain > confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged > and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including > the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are > not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, > copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have > received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by > reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without > reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you > > _______________________________________________ > OE mailing list > OE at lists.wedgeblade.net > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > > _______________________________________________ > OE mailing list > OE at lists.wedgeblade.net > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From onedonbushman at gmail.com Tue Oct 29 13:35:51 2024 From: onedonbushman at gmail.com (Don Bushman) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2024 14:35:51 -0600 Subject: [Oe List ...] bizarre In-Reply-To: References: <66C7C697-97D2-4161-8903-6A5304D1CB00@yahoo.com> Message-ID: A further thought: If we extended the Question of GOD lecture-how would we characterized each decade since the 50's? Would the time span be shorter than 10 years? 828-292-9696 On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 2:32?PM Don Bushman wrote: > I dare to suggest that the way transformation happens?often through an > external event causing an existential crisis from which we try to escape?is > writ large in our moment in history. > > There are some among us who suggest we are at a 500-year turning point, > and new historical perspectives are either on the horizon or just over its > edge. Such a change in the past has provoked massive resistance. > > The Pandora meme suggests that once opened, it can never be closed. We are > now a global village?look at the existing global economic infrastructure. I > believe what is happening with AI is the cultural infrastructure of this > global village. The national alliances in the West, East, and South will > force, in my humble opinion (IMHO), a global village political > infrastructure. Maybe not in my lifetime, but it is coming. > > I long ago found developing nations' adoption of Marx somewhat paradoxical > because Marx focused on industrialized nations' paths of development. I > wonder who in the industrialized nations read and saw their demise in such > development and promptly demonized Marx's insights. > > What exciting times we live in, and what incredible eyeglasses we have > developed to taste the richness of life. > > > > 828-292-9696 > > > > On Tue, Oct 29, 2024 at 1:37?PM James Wiegel via OE < > oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: > >> Still?? I recall conversations with you and others as far back as 1968 ? >> Jim Wiegel >> >> ??the long work >> of turning their lives >> into a celebration >> is not easy. Come and let us talk?. >> >> The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver >> >> On Oct 29, 2024, at 8:43?AM, Holcombe Wanda wrote: >> >> ?I believe we are in a global cultural malaise and Believe it is in >> someway as Marilyn shared: >> *a cultural backlash against global change that is perceived as both >> virtually inevitable and threatening to the survival of their traditional >> female gender identity** roles.* >> >> I also since it is also an emerging identity crisis for the male globally >> also. I don?t remember the figure but it was shared yesterday that 40,000 >> men committed suicide this year for various reasons. >> >> Whoever wins this election?.I perceive it will be up to both the female >> and male globally to create the new human being and global society. >> >> I hope to they have to be 100 to be a part of that and see what the new >> human looks like an act like the new GLOBAL CITIZEN?. >> Wanda ??? >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Oct 29, 2024, at 9:43?AM, James Wiegel via OE >> wrote: >> >> ?Thanks >> Jim Wiegel >> >> ??the long work >> of turning their lives >> into a celebration >> is not easy. Come and let us talk?. >> >> The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver >> >> On Oct 29, 2024, at 3:42?AM, w.schlesinger at pvida.net wrote: >> >> ? >> >> It?s hard to respond point by point to demonstrably false statements and >> charges. COVID was so much more destructive than it needed to have been ? >> largely due to Trump?s refusal to deal with the science and politicizing >> responses. The resistance to immunizations, use of masking (common in >> other parts of the world) ? well, you get the point. Illusory claims of >> ?greatness? are just that. >> >> >> >> We may see a Trump victory. And we need to be prepared to stay at the >> center, to understand that the order of things in the systems will continue >> to be a process of persons seeking to create a ?visionary dream? ? to quote >> Bonhoeffer ? and persons seeking to do what it caring and responsible. And >> this is true whether or not we see a Trump victory. We?ll have to work in >> that world as we do now, with an understanding that we will not conquer by >> destroying an enemy but by being who we are called to be. >> >> >> >> Personally, we?ve contributed, voted, and spoken as clearly as we can in >> the networks and relationships we have. But our ?heroes? aren?t the ones >> who overthrew a tyranny. Our ?heroes? are those who cared and sustained >> even while marginalized and attacked. ?Lest Innocent Blood be Shed? is an >> account of a village that sheltered Jews in France ? and did so while being >> gentle with the Vichy forces. That led to warnings before raids as even >> those in the Vichy regime chose to care. >> >> >> >> Again, FWIW. >> >> >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> *From:* James Wiegel >> *Sent:* Monday, October 28, 2024 8:35 PM >> *To:* Order Ecumenical Community >> *Cc:* w.schlesinger at pvida.net; Mari Crocker >> *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] bizarre >> >> >> >> Watching the world series, I am hit by ads similar to the post forwarded >> by Susan ? 3 1/2 years in office and things didn?t get done and now they >> will ?I dont know how to respond to that ? help >> >> Jim Wiegel >> >> ??the long work >> of turning their lives >> into a celebration >> is not easy. Come and let us talk?. >> >> The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver >> >> >> >> On Oct 28, 2024, at 5:00?PM, Mari Crocker via OE >> wrote: >> >> ?Amen! Dear friend, Bill. Thank you for this, and many other insightful >> comments you have shared over the years. Fond memories of the time Joe and >> I spent with your family, way back, when you were discerning your call. >> Fondly, Marilyn >> >> >> >> On Oct 28, 2024, at 7:22 PM, < >> w.schlesinger at pvida.net> wrote: >> >> >> >> The vice-presidential candidate studied Rene Girard?s work ? and betrayed >> it. He?s taken mimetic desire (I want what I see others having) and >> scapegoating (if we get rid of ?them? we?ll solve our problems, so let us >> link arms and attack ?them?) as recipes for victory instead of the driver >> for and betrayal of innocent suffering that Girard describes. >> >> >> >> Trump creates the incredibly powerful tool that ended up crucifying Jesus >> ? and in so doing, disclosed the horror and emptiness of that for the >> future. And as has been seen, when one ?they? has been disposed, the tool >> must find another ? and turns on itself in a cannibalistic process of >> eating its own. Thus the ?RINO? charge. >> >> >> >> Rubbing raw the sores of discontent can lead to this kind of destruction >> ? and in an angry rejection of other values. Attacking it in kind only >> strengthens the method. Unfortunately, innocent suffering is the only tool >> that stops it ? at cost. Thus the nonviolence movements of Gandhi and MLK >> Jr. and others? >> >> >> >> My two cents. >> >> >> >> Bill Schlesinger >> >> >> >> *From:* OE *On Behalf Of *Mari Crocker >> via OE >> *Sent:* Monday, October 28, 2024 5:06 PM >> *To:* Order Ecumenical Community >> *Cc:* Mari Crocker >> *Subject:* Re: [Oe List ...] bizarre >> >> >> >> Hi W.J and other colleagues >> >> >> >> I appreciate your analysis, and would add to your assessment of a >> ?cultural backlash against cultural change? and ?the perpetuation of the >> ancient archetype of female subservience,? the side-effects (like those of >> a deleterious drug) of "the abused woman syndrome". >> >> >> >> My sister typifies the abused woman, who continued to submit to abuse by >> ?staying in the marriage for the sake of the kids", and when she shook >> loose of marital abuse, she submitted to abuse by her sons, who of course >> learned from the role model of their father. One son did it by direct >> physical and emotional demeaning; the other by distancing himself >> geographically and abdicating any ?hands-on? support to his mother when she >> was diagnosed with dementia, save for an occasional phone call. >> >> >> >> However, despite her dementia, my sister cast her absentee ballot for >> Kamala. Even with dementia she saw the light. >> >> >> >> Marilyn >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Oct 28, 2024, at 5:45 PM, W. J. via OE >> wrote: >> >> >> >> We're in the closing days of the most bizarre U.S. election campaign in >> my memory. According to Barack, N.C. Lt. Gov. Robinson, the Repugnant >> candidate for governor, is a self-described "Black Nazi" who wants to bring >> back slavery. >> >> I know that one's hard to beat! >> >> But it gets worse! >> >> Robinson will be defeated on November 5, rather than riding into the >> governor's mansion on the coattails of Trump's predicted N.C. victory. >> >> But here's what's worse: >> >> Trump could narrowly win in the electoral college while losing the >> popular vote. >> >> Or he could narrowly lose the election, refuse to concede, and contest >> the election by casting doubt on its legitimacy and creating chaos in the >> electoral college, throwing the election to the House of Representatives. >> >> The critical voter block that will guarantee either outcome are female >> Trump voters, almost all of whom are white, and most of whom are not >> college graduates and are predominantly postmenopausal. >> >> This raises what is for me a burning question: why would *any woman* vote >> for Trump? >> >> And especially any woman who could conceive? >> >> Why would any woman not deeply understand that she is personally under >> threat the second *any other woman* is personally under threat? >> >> As well as being a member of a large group that is now directly under >> attack? >> >> I just don't get it. >> >> So, given the racial and gender gap in the American electorate, even if >> *every* white male voted for Donald Trump, he would *have to lose* if >> every female plus every person of color voted for Kamala. Right? >> >> Based on this logic, the reality that I just can't predict that Trump >> will lose is deeply disturbing. >> >> So I've tried to plumb the mystery of why *any* female (including my >> sister, who has voted for Trump twice before) would be determined to vote >> for Trump despite all the indisputable evidence that electing Trump in 2024 >> would be disastrous. >> >> I think it comes down to this: *a cultural backlash against global >> change that is perceived as both virtually inevitable and threatening to >> the survival of their traditional female gender identity roles.* >> >> This perception of a diffuse but global threat to their sense of security >> in their traditional sense of self can lead female Trump voters to >> unconsciously self-destructive behavior, in that they can vote for Trump >> while at the same hating him personally as the embodiment of a threatening >> male dominance that they have had to put up with in their intimate familial >> relationships. >> >> In short, females voting for Trump perpetuate the ancient archetype of >> female subservience. >> >> In my humble opinion! >> >> So why are any female voters so profoundly stuck in this personal >> dilemma? Of rebelling against the dominance of a male establishment by >> voting for a fascist wanna-be dictator who exudes a shrunken and impotent >> sense of male dominance while he attacks the American Constitution? >> >> Perhaps those of you who are female can see more deeply into this >> contradiction than I can manage. >> >> The best I can suggest is to place this existential disturbance somewhere >> in the area of "cultural impoverishment", and perhaps in the category of >> being "spiritually vulnerable" to what we used to call "brainwashing". And >> thus resistant to reality-based messages that contradict personal beliefs >> that are determined by a myth system. >> >> I invite your responses. >> >> And if you're a registered voter, don't neglect to vote! >> >> >> >> Marshall >> >> >> >> Finally, I just can't get why any woman in our group would insist on >> trashing Kamala. Yet here's what Susan Fertig posted on Facebook: >> >> >> >> <457488282_2891520291010734_7975706897851416784_n.jpg> >> >> >> >> P.S. Maybe Trump thinks of the electoral college as another iteration of >> Trump University! A scam he can manipulate to get what he wants. >> >> >> >> >> <457488282_2891520291010734_7975706897851416784_n.jpg>_______________________________________________ >> OE mailing list >> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net >> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net >> >> >> >> >> >> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain >> confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged >> and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including >> the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are >> not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, >> copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have >> received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by >> reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without >> reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OE mailing list >> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net >> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net >> >> >> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain >> confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged >> and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including >> the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are >> not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, >> copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have >> received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by >> reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without >> reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OE mailing list >> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net >> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OE mailing list >> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net >> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hfgreenenc at gmail.com Wed Oct 30 05:47:33 2024 From: hfgreenenc at gmail.com (Herman Greene) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2024 08:47:33 -0400 Subject: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Justin Morrill In-Reply-To: <1100807733.2228164.1730058859378@mail.yahoo.com> References: <8E2AEEC5-E492-4FE5-AA8B-DB82B1B2E8B6@singouteileen.com> <4BBF61D2-AA6D-4236-8B70-C9A618BB7866@ehcaperton.com> <278564692.1934182.1730058136758@mail.yahoo.com> <1100807733.2228164.1730058859378@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: A great man has passed. Blessed be. Herman On Sun, Oct 27, 2024 at 3:54?PM Joan via OE wrote: > When we opened up a house in Anchorage Alaska, a remote location where we > rarely got to see our colleagues, I still remember Justin's visits as > comforting and collegial. We were always pleased when he came. > > Joan Knutson > > On Sunday, October 27, 2024 at 12:43:06 PM MST, Ellie Stock via Dialogue < > dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: > > > Our hearts and prayers are with Del and all of the Morrill Family in the > death of Justin, family, colleague, and friend of many. We give thanks for > his (and Del's) leadership with "Area New York" when we were assigned there > and many other places. May the legacy of his leadership and compassion, > his many talents, and the gift of his whole life continue to be a source of > comfort, inspiration, peace, and hope to his family and friends all those > whose lives he touched now and in the days to come. > > Grace and peace ~ > blessings and love, > > Carleton and Ellie > carletonstock at aol.com > elliestock at aol.com > > On Sunday, October 27, 2024 at 01:32:26 PM EDT, Elizabeth Caperton via OE < > oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: > > > The Morrill family has asked me to share the following about Justin?s > death. > > > "Justin Irving Morrill died yesterday, October 26, at the age of 92. What > a grand human he was! Pianist, husband, pastor, father, world changer and > traveler, idealist, spiritual seeker, handyman, gardener, chef, fund raiser > of many millions for education and Community Health Care, supporter of the > arts, grandfather and great grandfather and, most of all, a wise > counselor. He was all that and more. We are celebrating a life well lived. > > We have not yet set plans for a memorial but will communicate them when we > do. Del?s address is > > 7290 Rosemount Circle, Apt 112 > > Tacoma 98465 > > > She also can communicate pretty well via text and phone, less on email. > (253) 365-1321 > > Thanks for your thoughts and prayers, > The Morrill Family" > > > > _______________________________________________ > OE mailing list > OE at lists.wedgeblade.net > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > _______________________________________________ > Dialogue mailing list > Dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net > _______________________________________________ > OE mailing list > OE at lists.wedgeblade.net > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hfgreenenc at gmail.com Wed Oct 30 05:56:44 2024 From: hfgreenenc at gmail.com (Herman Greene) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2024 08:56:44 -0400 Subject: [Oe List ...] Mark Dove Obituary - Worthington, OH In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: When I was in the Cleveland Religious House, Mark was our closest ministry colleague. I remember him well. He had 92 beautiful years of life. Heman On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 5:23?PM Lynda C via OE wrote: > > https://www.dignitymemorial.com/obituaries/worthington-oh/mark-dove-12003339 > > > > > > Today I received word from Janelle Dove that our colleague Mark Dove has > passed on to the next phase of his journey. > > > > With grateful hearts we remember his work with the Local Church > Experiment, and our friendship which was renewed when one of their > grandsons was in music school in Greensboro, NC. > > > > We enjoyed Mark and Janelle?s visits through Greensboro and getting to > attend with them several wonderful concerts of their Jazz Musician grandson > Rob Dove, as well as to meet Mark and Janelle?s son Tim and wife Lisa. > The trips to their summer home in Hilton Head, SC, were frequently > scheduled around Rob?s concerts. In return, they graciously hosted us in > Hilton Head during our NC winter months several times, and Mark and John > enjoyed playing golf together. Mark introduced us to a minister friend who > was looking for an RS-I kind of event for his congregation, and we led an > RS-I retreat on a beautiful little beach town where John Wesley had > preached, which led to further experimentation on the power of RS-I in > various forms. > > > > Another special memory of Mark came from a time when we lived in Galax, > VA. Ruth and Ken Gilbert had taken a ?traveling doc? assignment to Galax > during that time. When we learned that a youth RS-I was being planned in > Chicago, we loaded a van full of family teens, plus Jono and friend, and > headed north, stopping at the Lindblad?s gracious Wayside Inn on the way. > Mark Dove, Lynn Edwards, and Priscilla Woods were the pedagogues for the > course. What a delightful team to educate our younger generation. > > > > We send our love and care to Janelle and family. Memorial details are in > the link above. > > > > Grace and peace, and celebration of a life fully lived in service, > > > > Lynda and John Cock > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > OE mailing list > OE at lists.wedgeblade.net > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hfgreenenc at gmail.com Wed Oct 30 06:00:50 2024 From: hfgreenenc at gmail.com (Herman Greene) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2024 09:00:50 -0400 Subject: [Oe List ...] Completed Life of Michael Tippett Memorial Service is tomorrow. In-Reply-To: <7DF940A4-B919-436F-B4E2-EA2E457C7C35@gmail.com> References: <014d01dafcaf$dd55b930$98012b90$@gmail.com> <7DF940A4-B919-436F-B4E2-EA2E457C7C35@gmail.com> Message-ID: What wonderful people we have known. Now Mike, Judith, and Meg have all passed into the stars. Mike and Judith were our most faithful colleagues when I was in the Cleveland house and he cared for all of us for so many years through the directory. Glory be. Herman On Sun, Sep 1, 2024 at 8:28?PM Mari Crocker via OE wrote: > Yes, indeed. I just spent an hour or so participating in this wonderful > memorial service. It evoked memories from Joe?s and my first meeting this > amazing guy, guardian for the Consult in Bananeiras, Brazil, and such a > powerful, missional man. Mike was one of a kind. I will miss him > desperately, as we all will. > > Mari > > On Sep 1, 2024, at 4:45 PM, Jack and Louise Ballard via OE < > oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: > > Hello, > The memorial service today for Mike Tippett was such a beautiful tribute > to his life of service. We give thanks to God for his amazing model of > love and care for not only his dear family but anyone in need: students, > neighbors, friends, strangers, whomever. > > Thanks for the reminder to view this today on what would have been his 87 > th birthday. Well worth our time and the special memories evoked. > > Grace, peace and love, > Jack and Louise Ballard > > *From:* OE *On Behalf Of *Paula > Philbrook via OE > *Sent:* Saturday, August 31, 2024 5:20 PM > *To:* Order Ecumenical Community > *Cc:* Paula Philbrook > *Subject:* [Oe List ...] Completed Life of Michael Tippett Memorial > Service is tomorrow. > > All: > Here is the link from her Facebook Post- It will be live streamed on > Facebook. > > https://www.facebook.com/FrederickPresbyterianChurch?__cft__[0]=AZXDeAyHgALq_qGJx9REWLQIzCgW2Lv7ftis0nDxsYKBNw0v2fChdL87xxZ89Kxd-jpA04WRJuXWjd9657kDfgxI-i86S85mfas5VI6Odpr9KZtYQJ9x_psKCURdpLl1G7csbsfiaTIJRU3BM9sk368CTEmHBRsf0eKCIidU_RgCwg&__tn__=-]K-R > > This is the link to the Obituary, > > https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/fredericknewspost/name/michael-tippett-obituary?id=55646788&utm_source=webshareapi&utm_medium=share_button&utm_campaign=wsapimobile_beta&fbclid=IwY2xjawFAU_pleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHYkCgAiKA--HWNQYaHA4oWy1xu8Ni9pZvpVQr5dbqR5gpBixcACWNPMZrQ_aem_YS5nyIZT_R1Lp-e8qYo70g > Brooke's email is teach2sing at comcast.net if you would like to reach out > to his daughter's directly. > Paula > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > OE mailing list > OE at lists.wedgeblade.net > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > > > _______________________________________________ > OE mailing list > OE at lists.wedgeblade.net > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zbarley at earthlink.net Wed Oct 30 07:31:30 2024 From: zbarley at earthlink.net (zbarley at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2024 08:31:30 -0600 Subject: [Oe List ...] bizarre Message-ID: Sent using myEarthLink On Tue Oct 29 09:43:31 MDT 2024 Holcombe Wanda via OE wrote: I believe we are in a global cultural malaise and Believe it is in someway as Marilyn shared: a cultural backlash against global change that is perceived as both virtually inevitable and threatening to the survival of their traditional female gender identity roles. I also since it is also an emerging identity crisis for the male globally also. I don?t remember the figure but it was shared yesterday that 40,000 men committed suicide this year for various reasons. Whoever wins this election?.I perceive it will be up to both the female and male globally to create the new human being and global society. I hope to they have to be 100 to be a part of that and see what the new human looks like an act like the new GLOBAL CITIZEN?. Wanda ??? Sent from my iPhone > > On Oct 29, 2024, at 9:43?AM, James Wiegel via OE < > > > (mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net)> oe at lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net)> wrote: > > > > ? Thanks > Jim Wiegel > > ??the long work > of turning their lives > into a celebration > is not easy. Come and let us talk?. > > > The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver > > > > > > > > On Oct 29, 2024, at 3:42?AM, > > > > > > (mailto:w.schlesinger at pvida.net)> > w.schlesinger at pvida.net (mailto:w.schlesinger at pvida.net) wrote: > > > > > > > > ? > > > > It?s hard to respond point by point to demonstrably false statements and charges. COVID was so much more destructive than it needed to have been ? largely due to Trump?s refusal to deal with the science and politicizing responses. The resistance to immunizations, use of masking (common in other parts of the world) ? well, you get the point. Illusory claims of ?greatness? are just that. > > > > > > > > > > > > We may see a Trump victory. And we need to be prepared to stay at the center, to understand that the order of things in the systems will continue to be a process of persons seeking to create a ?visionary dream? ? to quote Bonhoeffer ? and persons seeking to do what it caring and responsible. And this is true whether or not we see a Trump victory. We?ll have to work in that world as we do now, with an understanding that we will not conquer by destroying an enemy but by being who we are called to be. > > > > > > > > > > > > Personally, we?ve contributed, voted, and spoken as clearly as we can in the networks and relationships we have. But our ?heroes? aren?t the ones who overthrew a tyranny. Our ?heroes? are those who cared and sustained even while marginalized and attacked. ?Lest Innocent Blood be Shed? is an account of a village that sheltered Jews in France ? and did so while being gentle with the Vichy forces. That led to warnings before raids as even those in the Vichy regime chose to care. > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, FWIW. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > > From: > > > > > > James Wiegel < > > > > > > (mailto:jfwiegel at yahoo.com)> > jfwiegel at yahoo.com (mailto:jfwiegel at yahoo.com)> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, October 28, 2024 8:35 PM > > To: > > > > Order Ecumenical Community < > > > > > > (mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net)> > oe at lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > > > > > Cc: > > > > > > > > (mailto:w.schlesinger at pvida.net)> > w.schlesinger at pvida.net (mailto:w.schlesinger at pvida.net); Mari Crocker < > > > > > > (mailto:maricrocker at gmail.com)> > maricrocker at gmail.com (mailto:maricrocker at gmail.com)> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] bizarre > > > > > > > > > > Watching the world series, I am hit by ads similar to the post forwarded by Susan ? 3 1/2 years in office and things didn?t get done and now they will ?I dont know how to respond to that ? help > > > > > > Jim Wiegel > > > > > > ??the long work > > of turning their lives > > into a celebration > > is not easy. Come and let us talk?. > > > > > > The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 28, 2024, at 5:00?PM, Mari Crocker via OE < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > oe at lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > ?Amen! Dear friend, Bill. Thank you for this, and many other insightful comments you have shared over the years. Fond memories of the time Joe and I spent with your family, way back, when you were discerning your call. Fondly, Marilyn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 28, 2024, at 7:22 PM, < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:w.schlesinger at pvida.net)> > > > w.schlesinger at pvida.net (mailto:w.schlesinger at pvida.net) > > > > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:w.schlesinger at pvida.net)> > > > w.schlesinger at pvida.net (mailto:w.schlesinger at pvida.net) > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The vice-presidential candidate studied Rene Girard?s work ? and betrayed it. He?s taken mimetic desire (I want what I see others having) and scapegoating (if we get rid of ?them? we?ll solve our problems, so let us link arms and attack ?them?) as recipes for victory instead of the driver for and betrayal of innocent suffering that Girard describes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Trump creates the incredibly powerful tool that ended up crucifying Jesus ? and in so doing, disclosed the horror and emptiness of that for the future. And as has been seen, when one ?they? has been disposed, the tool must find another ? and turns on itself in a cannibalistic process of eating its own. Thus the ?RINO? charge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rubbing raw the sores of discontent can lead to this kind of destruction ? and in an angry rejection of other values. Attacking it in kind only strengthens the method. Unfortunately, innocent suffering is the only tool that stops it ? at cost. Thus the nonviolence movements of Gandhi and MLK Jr. and others? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My two cents. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill Schlesinger > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: OE < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > > oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > > > > On Behalf Of Mari Crocker via OE > > > > Sent: Monday, October 28, 2024 5:06 PM > > > > To: Order Ecumenical Community < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > > oe at lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: Mari Crocker < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:maricrocker at gmail.com)> > > > maricrocker at gmail.com (mailto:maricrocker at gmail.com) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] bizarre > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi W.J and other colleagues > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I appreciate your analysis, and would add to your assessment of a ?cultural backlash against cultural change? and ?the perpetuation of the ancient archetype of female subservience,? the side-effects (like those of a deleterious drug) of "the abused woman syndrome". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My sister typifies the abused woman, who continued to submit to abuse by ?staying in the marriage for the sake of the kids", and when she shook loose of marital abuse, she submitted to abuse by her sons, who of course learned from the role model of their father. One son did it by direct physical and emotional demeaning; the other by distancing himself geographically and abdicating any ?hands-on? support to his mother when she was diagnosed with dementia, save for an occasional phone call. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, despite her dementia, my sister cast her absentee ballot for Kamala. Even with dementia she saw the light. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marilyn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 28, 2024, at 5:45 PM, W. J. via OE < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > > > oe at lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We're in the closing days of the most bizarre U.S. election campaign in my memory. According to Barack, N.C. Lt. Gov. Robinson, the Repugnant candidate for governor, is a self-described "Black Nazi" who wants to bring back slavery. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know that one's hard to beat! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But it gets worse! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Robinson will be defeated on November 5, rather than riding into the governor's mansion on the coattails of Trump's predicted N.C. victory. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But here's what's worse: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Trump could narrowly win in the electoral college while losing the popular vote. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or he could narrowly lose the election, refuse to concede, and contest the election by casting doubt on its legitimacy and creating chaos in the electoral college, throwing the election to the House of Representatives. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The critical voter block that will guarantee either outcome are female Trump voters, almost all of whom are white, and most of whom are not college graduates and are predominantly postmenopausal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This raises what is for me a burning question: why would any woman vote for Trump? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And especially any woman who could conceive? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would any woman not deeply understand that she is personally under threat the second any other woman is personally under threat? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As well as being a member of a large group that is now directly under attack? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just don't get it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, given the racial and gender gap in the American electorate, even if every white male voted for Donald Trump, he would have to lose if every female plus every person of color voted for Kamala. Right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Based on this logic, the reality that I just can't predict that Trump will lose is deeply disturbing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So I've tried to plumb the mystery of why any female (including my sister, who has voted for Trump twice before) would be determined to vote for Trump despite all the indisputable evidence that electing Trump in 2024 would be disastrous. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it comes down to this: a cultural backlash against global change that is perceived as both virtually inevitable and threatening to the survival of their traditional female gender identity roles. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This perception of a diffuse but global threat to their sense of security in their traditional sense of self can lead female Trump voters to unconsciously self-destructive behavior, in that they can vote for Trump while at the same hating him personally as the embodiment of a threatening male dominance that they have had to put up with in their intimate familial relationships. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In short, females voting for Trump perpetuate the ancient archetype of female subservience. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In my humble opinion! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So why are any female voters so profoundly stuck in this personal dilemma? Of rebelling against the dominance of a male establishment by voting for a fascist wanna-be dictator who exudes a shrunken and impotent sense of male dominance while he attacks the American Constitution? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps those of you who are female can see more deeply into this contradiction than I can manage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The best I can suggest is to place this existential disturbance somewhere in the area of "cultural impoverishment", and perhaps in the category of being "spiritually vulnerable" to what we used to call "brainwashing". And thus resistant to reality-based messages that contradict personal beliefs that are determined by a myth system. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I invite your responses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And if you're a registered voter, don't neglect to vote! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marshall > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Finally, I just can't get why any woman in our group would insist on trashing Kamala. Yet here's what Susan Fertig posted on Facebook: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <457488282_2891520291010734_7975706897851416784_n.jpg> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. Maybe Trump thinks of the electoral college as another iteration of Trump University! A scam he can manipulate to get what he wants. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <457488282_2891520291010734_7975706897851416784_n.jpg>_______________________________________________ > > > > > OE mailing list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:OE at lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > > > OE at lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:OE at lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net)> > > > > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). 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Thank you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > OE mailing list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:OE at lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > OE at lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:OE at lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net)> > > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you _______________________________________________ > OE mailing list > > > > (mailto:OE at lists.wedgeblade.net)> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:OE at lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > (http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net)> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zbarley at earthlink.net Wed Oct 30 07:31:59 2024 From: zbarley at earthlink.net (zbarley at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2024 08:31:59 -0600 Subject: [Oe List ...] bizarre Message-ID: <6e4f945a-9ce0-436d-8c79-424b8df4fa53@localhost> Sent using myEarthLink On Mon Oct 28 20:35:46 MDT 2024 James Wiegel via OE wrote: Watching the world series, I am hit by ads similar to the post forwarded by Susan ? 3 1/2 years in office and things didn?t get done and now they will ?I dont know how to respond to that ? help Jim Wiegel ??the long work of turning their lives into a celebration is not easy. Come and let us talk?. The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver > > On Oct 28, 2024, at 5:00?PM, Mari Crocker via OE < > > > (mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net)> oe at lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net)> wrote: > > > > ? Amen! Dear friend, Bill. Thank you for this, and many other insightful comments you have shared over the years. Fond memories of the time Joe and I spent with your family, way back, when you were discerning your call. Fondly, Marilyn > > > > > On Oct 28, 2024, at 7:22 PM, < > > > > > > (mailto:w.schlesinger at pvida.net)> > w.schlesinger at pvida.net (mailto:w.schlesinger at pvida.net)> < > > > > > > (mailto:w.schlesinger at pvida.net)> > w.schlesinger at pvida.net (mailto:w.schlesinger at pvida.net)> wrote: > > > > > > > > The vice-presidential candidate studied Rene Girard?s work ? and betrayed it. He?s taken mimetic desire (I want what I see others having) and scapegoating (if we get rid of ?them? we?ll solve our problems, so let us link arms and attack ?them?) as recipes for victory instead of the driver for and betrayal of innocent suffering that Girard describes. > > > > Trump creates the incredibly powerful tool that ended up crucifying Jesus ? and in so doing, disclosed the horror and emptiness of that for the future. And as has been seen, when one ?they? has been disposed, the tool must find another ? and turns on itself in a cannibalistic process of eating its own. Thus the ?RINO? charge. > > > > Rubbing raw the sores of discontent can lead to this kind of destruction ? and in an angry rejection of other values. Attacking it in kind only strengthens the method. Unfortunately, innocent suffering is the only tool that stops it ? at cost. Thus the nonviolence movements of Gandhi and MLK Jr. and others? > > > > My two cents. > > > > Bill Schlesinger > > > > From: OE < > > > > > > > > (mailto:oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net)> > oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > On Behalf Of Mari Crocker via OE > > Sent: Monday, October 28, 2024 5:06 PM > > To: Order Ecumenical Community < > > > > > > > > (mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net)> > oe at lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > > Cc: Mari Crocker < > > > > > > > > (mailto:maricrocker at gmail.com)> > maricrocker at gmail.com (mailto:maricrocker at gmail.com) > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] bizarre > > > > Hi W.J and other colleagues > > > > > > I appreciate your analysis, and would add to your assessment of a ?cultural backlash against cultural change? and ?the perpetuation of the ancient archetype of female subservience,? the side-effects (like those of a deleterious drug) of "the abused woman syndrome". > > > > > > > > My sister typifies the abused woman, who continued to submit to abuse by ?staying in the marriage for the sake of the kids", and when she shook loose of marital abuse, she submitted to abuse by her sons, who of course learned from the role model of their father. One son did it by direct physical and emotional demeaning; the other by distancing himself geographically and abdicating any ?hands-on? support to his mother when she was diagnosed with dementia, save for an occasional phone call. > > > > > > > > However, despite her dementia, my sister cast her absentee ballot for Kamala. Even with dementia she saw the light. > > > > > > > > Marilyn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 28, 2024, at 5:45 PM, W. J. via OE < > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > oe at lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > We're in the closing days of the most bizarre U.S. election campaign in my memory. According to Barack, N.C. Lt. Gov. Robinson, the Repugnant candidate for governor, is a self-described "Black Nazi" who wants to bring back slavery. > > > > > > I know that one's hard to beat! > > > > > > But it gets worse! > > > > > > Robinson will be defeated on November 5, rather than riding into the governor's mansion on the coattails of Trump's predicted N.C. victory. > > > > > > But here's what's worse: > > > > > > Trump could narrowly win in the electoral college while losing the popular vote. > > > > > > Or he could narrowly lose the election, refuse to concede, and contest the election by casting doubt on its legitimacy and creating chaos in the electoral college, throwing the election to the House of Representatives. > > > > > > The critical voter block that will guarantee either outcome are female Trump voters, almost all of whom are white, and most of whom are not college graduates and are predominantly postmenopausal. > > > > > > This raises what is for me a burning question: why would any woman vote for Trump? > > > > > > And especially any woman who could conceive? > > > > > > Why would any woman not deeply understand that she is personally under threat the second any other woman is personally under threat? > > > > > > As well as being a member of a large group that is now directly under attack? > > > > > > I just don't get it. > > > > > > So, given the racial and gender gap in the American electorate, even if every white male voted for Donald Trump, he would have to lose if every female plus every person of color voted for Kamala. Right? > > > > > > Based on this logic, the reality that I just can't predict that Trump will lose is deeply disturbing. > > > > > > So I've tried to plumb the mystery of why any female (including my sister, who has voted for Trump twice before) would be determined to vote for Trump despite all the indisputable evidence that electing Trump in 2024 would be disastrous. > > > > > > I think it comes down to this: a cultural backlash against global change that is perceived as both virtually inevitable and threatening to the survival of their traditional female gender identity roles. > > > > > > This perception of a diffuse but global threat to their sense of security in their traditional sense of self can lead female Trump voters to unconsciously self-destructive behavior, in that they can vote for Trump while at the same hating him personally as the embodiment of a threatening male dominance that they have had to put up with in their intimate familial relationships. > > > > > > In short, females voting for Trump perpetuate the ancient archetype of female subservience. > > > > > > In my humble opinion! > > > > > > So why are any female voters so profoundly stuck in this personal dilemma? Of rebelling against the dominance of a male establishment by voting for a fascist wanna-be dictator who exudes a shrunken and impotent sense of male dominance while he attacks the American Constitution? > > > > > > Perhaps those of you who are female can see more deeply into this contradiction than I can manage. > > > > > > The best I can suggest is to place this existential disturbance somewhere in the area of "cultural impoverishment", and perhaps in the category of being "spiritually vulnerable" to what we used to call "brainwashing". And thus resistant to reality-based messages that contradict personal beliefs that are determined by a myth system. > > > > > > I invite your responses. > > > > > > And if you're a registered voter, don't neglect to vote! > > > > > > > > > > > > Marshall > > > > > > > > > > > > Finally, I just can't get why any woman in our group would insist on trashing Kamala. Yet here's what Susan Fertig posted on Facebook: > > > > > > > > > > > > <457488282_2891520291010734_7975706897851416784_n.jpg> > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S. Maybe Trump thinks of the electoral college as another iteration of Trump University! A scam he can manipulate to get what he wants. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <457488282_2891520291010734_7975706897851416784_n.jpg>_______________________________________________ > > > OE mailing list > > > > > > > > > > > > (mailto:OE at lists.wedgeblade.net)> > > OE at lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:OE at lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net)> > > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you > _______________________________________________ > OE mailing list > > > > (mailto:OE at lists.wedgeblade.net)> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net (mailto:OE at lists.wedgeblade.net) > > > > > > (http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net)> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From joyful52 at gmail.com Wed Oct 30 06:27:34 2024 From: joyful52 at gmail.com (Evelyn Kurihara Philbrook) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2024 21:27:34 +0800 Subject: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Justin Morrill In-Reply-To: References: <8E2AEEC5-E492-4FE5-AA8B-DB82B1B2E8B6@singouteileen.com> <4BBF61D2-AA6D-4236-8B70-C9A618BB7866@ehcaperton.com> <278564692.1934182.1730058136758@mail.yahoo.com> <1100807733.2228164.1730058859378@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <97FB5569-E5DE-4AB5-BFCF-576D97D8AF1D@gmail.com> When we were in the Kabiro Project hosting people during the International Women?s Conference there and people came to see Kabiro, we showed them the pre-school with Sam Were and Ester Were, but it was Justin who asked where will these children go to school after preschool? Later when we visited Kabiro, their youngest son in Middle school associated with the Episcopal Church was happy that someone thought about education beyond Pre-School. Later he went to college supported by nuns from the Catholic Church across the road from the Kabiro Market. Sam would have been proud to see him graduate, but he died soon after we saw the Middle School. I thought Justin was the original man with a question, and it was always on target. Of course I only met Joe Matthews twice in passing. Sending love and peace to his family! Evelyn Kurihara Philbrook > On Oct 30, 2024, at 8:47?PM, Herman Greene via OE wrote: > > A great man has passed. Blessed be. > > Herman > > On Sun, Oct 27, 2024 at 3:54?PM Joan via OE > wrote: >> When we opened up a house in Anchorage Alaska, a remote location where we rarely got to see our colleagues, I still remember Justin's visits as comforting and collegial. We were always pleased when he came. >> >> Joan Knutson >> >> On Sunday, October 27, 2024 at 12:43:06 PM MST, Ellie Stock via Dialogue > wrote: >> >> >> Our hearts and prayers are with Del and all of the Morrill Family in the death of Justin, family, colleague, and friend of many. We give thanks for his (and Del's) leadership with "Area New York" when we were assigned there and many other places. May the legacy of his leadership and compassion, his many talents, and the gift of his whole life continue to be a source of comfort, inspiration, peace, and hope to his family and friends all those whose lives he touched now and in the days to come. >> >> Grace and peace ~ >> blessings and love, >> >> Carleton and Ellie >> carletonstock at aol.com >> elliestock at aol.com >> >> On Sunday, October 27, 2024 at 01:32:26 PM EDT, Elizabeth Caperton via OE > wrote: >> >> >> The Morrill family has asked me to share the following about Justin?s death. >> >> "Justin Irving Morrill died yesterday, October 26, at the age of 92. What a grand human he was! Pianist, husband, pastor, father, world changer and traveler, idealist, spiritual seeker, handyman, gardener, chef, fund raiser of many millions for education and Community Health Care, supporter of the arts, grandfather and great grandfather and, most of all, a wise counselor. He was all that and more. We are celebrating a life well lived. >> >> We have not yet set plans for a memorial but will communicate them when we do. Del?s address is >> 7290 Rosemount Circle, Apt 112 >> Tacoma 98465 >> >> She also can communicate pretty well via text and phone, less on email. (253) 365-1321 >> >> Thanks for your thoughts and prayers, >> The Morrill Family" >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OE mailing list >> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net >> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net >> _______________________________________________ >> Dialogue mailing list >> Dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net >> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net >> _______________________________________________ >> OE mailing list >> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net >> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > _______________________________________________ > OE mailing list > OE at lists.wedgeblade.net > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From joyful52 at gmail.com Wed Oct 30 06:27:34 2024 From: joyful52 at gmail.com (Evelyn Kurihara Philbrook) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2024 21:27:34 +0800 Subject: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Justin Morrill In-Reply-To: References: <8E2AEEC5-E492-4FE5-AA8B-DB82B1B2E8B6@singouteileen.com> <4BBF61D2-AA6D-4236-8B70-C9A618BB7866@ehcaperton.com> <278564692.1934182.1730058136758@mail.yahoo.com> <1100807733.2228164.1730058859378@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <97FB5569-E5DE-4AB5-BFCF-576D97D8AF1D@gmail.com> When we were in the Kabiro Project hosting people during the International Women?s Conference there and people came to see Kabiro, we showed them the pre-school with Sam Were and Ester Were, but it was Justin who asked where will these children go to school after preschool? Later when we visited Kabiro, their youngest son in Middle school associated with the Episcopal Church was happy that someone thought about education beyond Pre-School. Later he went to college supported by nuns from the Catholic Church across the road from the Kabiro Market. Sam would have been proud to see him graduate, but he died soon after we saw the Middle School. I thought Justin was the original man with a question, and it was always on target. Of course I only met Joe Matthews twice in passing. Sending love and peace to his family! Evelyn Kurihara Philbrook > On Oct 30, 2024, at 8:47?PM, Herman Greene via OE wrote: > > A great man has passed. Blessed be. > > Herman > > On Sun, Oct 27, 2024 at 3:54?PM Joan via OE > wrote: >> When we opened up a house in Anchorage Alaska, a remote location where we rarely got to see our colleagues, I still remember Justin's visits as comforting and collegial. We were always pleased when he came. >> >> Joan Knutson >> >> On Sunday, October 27, 2024 at 12:43:06 PM MST, Ellie Stock via Dialogue > wrote: >> >> >> Our hearts and prayers are with Del and all of the Morrill Family in the death of Justin, family, colleague, and friend of many. We give thanks for his (and Del's) leadership with "Area New York" when we were assigned there and many other places. May the legacy of his leadership and compassion, his many talents, and the gift of his whole life continue to be a source of comfort, inspiration, peace, and hope to his family and friends all those whose lives he touched now and in the days to come. >> >> Grace and peace ~ >> blessings and love, >> >> Carleton and Ellie >> carletonstock at aol.com >> elliestock at aol.com >> >> On Sunday, October 27, 2024 at 01:32:26 PM EDT, Elizabeth Caperton via OE > wrote: >> >> >> The Morrill family has asked me to share the following about Justin?s death. >> >> "Justin Irving Morrill died yesterday, October 26, at the age of 92. What a grand human he was! Pianist, husband, pastor, father, world changer and traveler, idealist, spiritual seeker, handyman, gardener, chef, fund raiser of many millions for education and Community Health Care, supporter of the arts, grandfather and great grandfather and, most of all, a wise counselor. He was all that and more. We are celebrating a life well lived. >> >> We have not yet set plans for a memorial but will communicate them when we do. Del?s address is >> 7290 Rosemount Circle, Apt 112 >> Tacoma 98465 >> >> She also can communicate pretty well via text and phone, less on email. (253) 365-1321 >> >> Thanks for your thoughts and prayers, >> The Morrill Family" >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OE mailing list >> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net >> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net >> _______________________________________________ >> Dialogue mailing list >> Dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net >> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/dialogue-wedgeblade.net >> _______________________________________________ >> OE mailing list >> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net >> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > _______________________________________________ > OE mailing list > OE at lists.wedgeblade.net > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From catherine at welchbox.com Wed Oct 30 09:46:17 2024 From: catherine at welchbox.com (catherine at welchbox.com) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2024 10:46:17 -0600 Subject: [Oe List ...] bizarre In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <004801db2aeb$3dbed7c0$b93c8740$@welchbox.com> Thanks to Zoe for passing on Wanda's insightful comments. It strikes me that as women have gained more voice and strength in recent years through their steadfast solidarity, perhaps we have sometimes failed to acknowledge the men who have supported and collaborated with us, and learned along with us to adapt to new roles. Perhaps such acknowledgement would affirm to all men that they are vitally needed as we create a new future. Catherine Welch From: OE On Behalf Of Zoe Barley via OE Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2024 8:32 AM To: Order Ecumenical Community Cc: zbarley at earthlink.net Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] bizarre Sent using myEarthLink On Tue Oct 29 09:43:31 MDT 2024 Holcombe Wanda via OE wrote: I believe we are in a global cultural malaise and Believe it is in someway as Marilyn shared: a cultural backlash against global change that is perceived as both virtually inevitable and threatening to the survival of their traditional female gender identity roles. I also since it is also an emerging identity crisis for the male globally also. I don?t remember the figure but it was shared yesterday that 40,000 men committed suicide this year for various reasons. Whoever wins this election?.I perceive it will be up to both the female and male globally to create the new human being and global society. I hope to they have to be 100 to be a part of that and see what the new human looks like an act like the new GLOBAL CITIZEN?. Wanda ??? Sent from my iPhone On Oct 29, 2024, at 9:43?AM, James Wiegel via OE < oe at lists.wedgeblade.net > wrote: ? Thanks Jim Wiegel ??the long work of turning their lives into a celebration is not easy. Come and let us talk?. The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver On Oct 29, 2024, at 3:42?AM, w.schlesinger at pvida.net wrote: ? It?s hard to respond point by point to demonstrably false statements and charges. COVID was so much more destructive than it needed to have been ? largely due to Trump?s refusal to deal with the science and politicizing responses. The resistance to immunizations, use of masking (common in other parts of the world) ? well, you get the point. Illusory claims of ?greatness? are just that. We may see a Trump victory. And we need to be prepared to stay at the center, to understand that the order of things in the systems will continue to be a process of persons seeking to create a ?visionary dream? ? to quote Bonhoeffer ? and persons seeking to do what it caring and responsible. And this is true whether or not we see a Trump victory. We?ll have to work in that world as we do now, with an understanding that we will not conquer by destroying an enemy but by being who we are called to be. Personally, we?ve contributed, voted, and spoken as clearly as we can in the networks and relationships we have. But our ?heroes? aren?t the ones who overthrew a tyranny. Our ?heroes? are those who cared and sustained even while marginalized and attacked. ?Lest Innocent Blood be Shed? is an account of a village that sheltered Jews in France ? and did so while being gentle with the Vichy forces. That led to warnings before raids as even those in the Vichy regime chose to care. Again, FWIW. Bill From: James Wiegel < jfwiegel at yahoo.com > Sent: Monday, October 28, 2024 8:35 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community < oe at lists.wedgeblade.net > Cc: w.schlesinger at pvida.net ; Mari Crocker < maricrocker at gmail.com > Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] bizarre Watching the world series, I am hit by ads similar to the post forwarded by Susan ? 3 1/2 years in office and things didn?t get done and now they will ?I dont know how to respond to that ? help Jim Wiegel ??the long work of turning their lives into a celebration is not easy. Come and let us talk?. The Sunflowers. Mary Oliver On Oct 28, 2024, at 5:00?PM, Mari Crocker via OE < oe at lists.wedgeblade.net > wrote: ?Amen! Dear friend, Bill. Thank you for this, and many other insightful comments you have shared over the years. Fond memories of the time Joe and I spent with your family, way back, when you were discerning your call. Fondly, Marilyn On Oct 28, 2024, at 7:22 PM, < w.schlesinger at pvida.net > < w.schlesinger at pvida.net > wrote: The vice-presidential candidate studied Rene Girard?s work ? and betrayed it. He?s taken mimetic desire (I want what I see others having) and scapegoating (if we get rid of ?them? we?ll solve our problems, so let us link arms and attack ?them?) as recipes for victory instead of the driver for and betrayal of innocent suffering that Girard describes. Trump creates the incredibly powerful tool that ended up crucifying Jesus ? and in so doing, disclosed the horror and emptiness of that for the future. And as has been seen, when one ?they? has been disposed, the tool must find another ? and turns on itself in a cannibalistic process of eating its own. Thus the ?RINO? charge. Rubbing raw the sores of discontent can lead to this kind of destruction ? and in an angry rejection of other values. Attacking it in kind only strengthens the method. Unfortunately, innocent suffering is the only tool that stops it ? at cost. Thus the nonviolence movements of Gandhi and MLK Jr. and others? My two cents. Bill Schlesinger From: OE < oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net > On Behalf Of Mari Crocker via OE Sent: Monday, October 28, 2024 5:06 PM To: Order Ecumenical Community < oe at lists.wedgeblade.net > Cc: Mari Crocker < maricrocker at gmail.com > Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] bizarre Hi W.J and other colleagues I appreciate your analysis, and would add to your assessment of a ?cultural backlash against cultural change? and ?the perpetuation of the ancient archetype of female subservience,? the side-effects (like those of a deleterious drug) of "the abused woman syndrome". My sister typifies the abused woman, who continued to submit to abuse by ?staying in the marriage for the sake of the kids", and when she shook loose of marital abuse, she submitted to abuse by her sons, who of course learned from the role model of their father. One son did it by direct physical and emotional demeaning; the other by distancing himself geographically and abdicating any ?hands-on? support to his mother when she was diagnosed with dementia, save for an occasional phone call. However, despite her dementia, my sister cast her absentee ballot for Kamala. Even with dementia she saw the light. Marilyn On Oct 28, 2024, at 5:45 PM, W. J. via OE < oe at lists.wedgeblade.net > wrote: We're in the closing days of the most bizarre U.S. election campaign in my memory. According to Barack, N.C. Lt. Gov. Robinson, the Repugnant candidate for governor, is a self-described "Black Nazi" who wants to bring back slavery. I know that one's hard to beat! But it gets worse! Robinson will be defeated on November 5, rather than riding into the governor's mansion on the coattails of Trump's predicted N.C. victory. But here's what's worse: Trump could narrowly win in the electoral college while losing the popular vote. Or he could narrowly lose the election, refuse to concede, and contest the election by casting doubt on its legitimacy and creating chaos in the electoral college, throwing the election to the House of Representatives. The critical voter block that will guarantee either outcome are female Trump voters, almost all of whom are white, and most of whom are not college graduates and are predominantly postmenopausal. This raises what is for me a burning question: why would any woman vote for Trump? And especially any woman who could conceive? Why would any woman not deeply understand that she is personally under threat the second any other woman is personally under threat? As well as being a member of a large group that is now directly under attack? I just don't get it. So, given the racial and gender gap in the American electorate, even if every white male voted for Donald Trump, he would have to lose if every female plus every person of color voted for Kamala. Right? Based on this logic, the reality that I just can't predict that Trump will lose is deeply disturbing. So I've tried to plumb the mystery of why any female (including my sister, who has voted for Trump twice before) would be determined to vote for Trump despite all the indisputable evidence that electing Trump in 2024 would be disastrous. I think it comes down to this: a cultural backlash against global change that is perceived as both virtually inevitable and threatening to the survival of their traditional female gender identity roles. This perception of a diffuse but global threat to their sense of security in their traditional sense of self can lead female Trump voters to unconsciously self-destructive behavior, in that they can vote for Trump while at the same hating him personally as the embodiment of a threatening male dominance that they have had to put up with in their intimate familial relationships. In short, females voting for Trump perpetuate the ancient archetype of female subservience. In my humble opinion! So why are any female voters so profoundly stuck in this personal dilemma? Of rebelling against the dominance of a male establishment by voting for a fascist wanna-be dictator who exudes a shrunken and impotent sense of male dominance while he attacks the American Constitution? Perhaps those of you who are female can see more deeply into this contradiction than I can manage. The best I can suggest is to place this existential disturbance somewhere in the area of "cultural impoverishment", and perhaps in the category of being "spiritually vulnerable" to what we used to call "brainwashing". And thus resistant to reality-based messages that contradict personal beliefs that are determined by a myth system. I invite your responses. And if you're a registered voter, don't neglect to vote! Marshall Finally, I just can't get why any woman in our group would insist on trashing Kamala. Yet here's what Susan Fertig posted on Facebook: <457488282_2891520291010734_7975706897851416784_n.jpg> P.S. Maybe Trump thinks of the electoral college as another iteration of Trump University! A scam he can manipulate to get what he wants. <457488282_2891520291010734_7975706897851416784_n.jpg>_______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE at lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE at lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE TO RECIPIENT: This transmission may contain confidential information belonging to the sender that is legally privileged and proprietary and may be subject to protection under the law, including the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from sharing, copying, or otherwise using or disclosing its contents. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and permanently delete this e-mail and any attachments without reading, forwarding or saving them. Thank you _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE at lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfwiegel at yahoo.com Wed Oct 30 10:43:59 2024 From: jfwiegel at yahoo.com (James Wiegel) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2024 10:43:59 -0700 Subject: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Justin Morrill In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48DE4DE6-6913-498E-A622-73D2C03DBEC5@yahoo.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nancy at songaia.com Wed Oct 30 18:04:55 2024 From: nancy at songaia.com (Nancy Lanphear) Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2024 18:04:55 -0700 Subject: [Oe List ...] Mark Dove Obituary - Worthington, OH In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Friends, I remember the Local Church Lab that was held in Mark and Janell's Church It was the beginning of the Movement/ Order experience for many of us and the meeting of friends and colleagues that has continued until this day. I'm grateful for the Journey with each one of you. Sent with love, Nancy On Wed, Oct 30, 2024 at 5:56?AM Herman Greene via OE < oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: > When I was in the Cleveland Religious House, Mark was our closest ministry > colleague. I remember him well. He had 92 beautiful years of life. > > Heman > > On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 5:23?PM Lynda C via OE > wrote: > >> >> https://www.dignitymemorial.com/obituaries/worthington-oh/mark-dove-12003339 >> >> >> >> >> >> Today I received word from Janelle Dove that our colleague Mark Dove has >> passed on to the next phase of his journey. >> >> >> >> With grateful hearts we remember his work with the Local Church >> Experiment, and our friendship which was renewed when one of their >> grandsons was in music school in Greensboro, NC. >> >> >> >> We enjoyed Mark and Janelle?s visits through Greensboro and getting to >> attend with them several wonderful concerts of their Jazz Musician grandson >> Rob Dove, as well as to meet Mark and Janelle?s son Tim and wife Lisa. >> The trips to their summer home in Hilton Head, SC, were frequently >> scheduled around Rob?s concerts. In return, they graciously hosted us in >> Hilton Head during our NC winter months several times, and Mark and John >> enjoyed playing golf together. Mark introduced us to a minister friend who >> was looking for an RS-I kind of event for his congregation, and we led an >> RS-I retreat on a beautiful little beach town where John Wesley had >> preached, which led to further experimentation on the power of RS-I in >> various forms. >> >> >> >> Another special memory of Mark came from a time when we lived in Galax, >> VA. Ruth and Ken Gilbert had taken a ?traveling doc? assignment to Galax >> during that time. When we learned that a youth RS-I was being planned in >> Chicago, we loaded a van full of family teens, plus Jono and friend, and >> headed north, stopping at the Lindblad?s gracious Wayside Inn on the way. >> Mark Dove, Lynn Edwards, and Priscilla Woods were the pedagogues for the >> course. What a delightful team to educate our younger generation. >> >> >> >> We send our love and care to Janelle and family. Memorial details are in >> the link above. >> >> >> >> Grace and peace, and celebration of a life fully lived in service, >> >> >> >> Lynda and John Cock >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OE mailing list >> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net >> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net >> > _______________________________________________ > OE mailing list > OE at lists.wedgeblade.net > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elizabeth at ehcaperton.com Thu Oct 31 05:33:43 2024 From: elizabeth at ehcaperton.com (Elizabeth Caperton) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2024 12:33:43 +0000 Subject: [Oe List ...] Fwd: Please post In-Reply-To: <4466BFBB-D9F5-4FF2-AEB2-49EA9314A8FA@singouteileen.com> References: <4466BFBB-D9F5-4FF2-AEB2-49EA9314A8FA@singouteileen.com> Message-ID: The Morrill family asked me to share. Dear friends, A memorial service for Justin Morrill will be held on Friday, November 8 at 1:00 pm at Mason United Methodist Church located at 2710 N Madison St, Tacoma, WA 98407 Donations in lieu of flowers may be made to Northwest Sinfonietta (https://nwsinfonietta.org/support-nws ) or to Community Health Care (https://www.commhealth.org/donate/). Questions - please text or call Eileen Howard 614-214-4030 or email eileenmhoward at icloud.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jfknutson at aol.com Thu Oct 31 07:41:26 2024 From: jfknutson at aol.com (Joan) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2024 14:41:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Oe List ...] Mark Dove Obituary - Worthington, OH In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1376059312.8451818.1730385686688@mail.yahoo.com> It all started for me at Friendship United Methodist Church and Mark Dove in Cincinnati.? I confessed to Mark my frustration that we weren't engaged in the important issues of our time and he sent Frank and I to RS1.? Things changed quickly for all of us.? Finally we heard that a PLC was scheduled and of course we recruited Mark to go.? Closer to the time of the course Frank and I wondered if he really was going to go so we doubled down on Mark to get there.? And he did finally go.? Years later he confessed that he really wasn't going to go and that we pushed him into it.? As many of you know from your own experience it was a wild ride.? Wouldn't have missed it for anything. Mark has always been on my meditative council. Joan Knutson On Wednesday, October 30, 2024 at 06:05:45 PM MST, Nancy Lanphear via OE wrote: Dear Friends, I remember the Local Church Lab that was held in Mark and Janell's Church? It was the beginning of the Movement/ Order experience for many of us and the meeting of friends and colleagues that has continued until this day. I'm grateful for the Journey with each one of you.? Sent with love, Nancy On Wed, Oct 30, 2024 at 5:56?AM Herman Greene via OE wrote: When I was in the Cleveland Religious House, Mark was our closest ministry colleague. I remember him well. He had 92 beautiful years of life. Heman On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 5:23?PM Lynda C via OE wrote: https://www.dignitymemorial.com/obituaries/worthington-oh/mark-dove-12003339 ? ? Today I received word from Janelle Dove that our colleague Mark Dove has passed on to the next phase of his journey.? ? With grateful hearts we remember his work with the Local Church Experiment, and our friendship which was renewed when one of their grandsons was in music school in Greensboro, NC.? ? We enjoyed Mark and Janelle?s visits through Greensboro and getting to attend with them several wonderful concerts of their Jazz Musician grandson Rob Dove, as well as to meet Mark and Janelle?s son Tim and wife Lisa.? ?The trips to their summer home in Hilton Head, SC, ?were frequently scheduled around Rob?s concerts.? In return, they graciously hosted us in Hilton Head during our NC winter months several times, and Mark and John enjoyed playing golf together.? Mark introduced us to a minister friend who was looking for an RS-I kind of event for his congregation, and we led an RS-I retreat on a beautiful little beach town where John Wesley had preached, which led to further experimentation on the power of RS-I in various forms.? ?? ? Another special memory of Mark came from a time when we lived in Galax, VA.? Ruth and Ken Gilbert had taken a ?traveling doc? assignment to Galax during that time.? When we learned that a youth RS-I was being planned in Chicago, we loaded a van full of family teens, plus Jono and friend, and headed north, stopping at the Lindblad?s gracious Wayside Inn on the way. ??Mark Dove, Lynn Edwards, and Priscilla Woods were the pedagogues for the course. ??What a delightful team to educate our younger generation.? ? We send our love and care to Janelle and family.? Memorial details are in the link above.? ? Grace and peace,? and celebration of a life fully lived in service, ? Lynda and John Cock ? ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE at lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE at lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net _______________________________________________ OE mailing list OE at lists.wedgeblade.net http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shb.poetry at gmail.com Thu Oct 31 10:13:40 2024 From: shb.poetry at gmail.com (Sarah Buss) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2024 12:13:40 -0500 Subject: [Oe List ...] Fwd: Please post In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C51895E-39D9-4F47-AC52-1A840E01CC86@gmail.com> What is a mailing address where memorials may be sent? Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 31, 2024, at 7:34?AM, Elizabeth Caperton via OE wrote: > > ? > The Morrill family asked me to share. >> >> Dear friends, >> A memorial service for Justin Morrill will be held on Friday, November 8 at 1:00 pm at Mason United Methodist Church located at 2710 N Madison St, Tacoma, WA 98407 >> >> Donations in lieu of flowers may be made to Northwest Sinfonietta (https://nwsinfonietta.org/support-nws ) or to Community Health Care (https://www.commhealth.org/donate/). >> >> Questions - please text or call Eileen Howard 614-214-4030 or email eileenmhoward at icloud.com > _______________________________________________ > OE mailing list > OE at lists.wedgeblade.net > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wandah70 at gmail.com Thu Oct 31 10:47:06 2024 From: wandah70 at gmail.com (Holcombe Wanda) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2024 12:47:06 -0500 Subject: [Oe List ...] Mark Dove Obituary - Worthington, OH In-Reply-To: <1376059312.8451818.1730385686688@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1376059312.8451818.1730385686688@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7938CA5D-FE93-48BE-84CC-8A322161CF01@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From synergi at yahoo.com Thu Oct 31 11:05:35 2024 From: synergi at yahoo.com (W. J.) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2024 18:05:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Oe List ...] a bumpy election References: <2026294532.3409995.1730397936426.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2026294532.3409995.1730397936426@mail.yahoo.com> Fasten your seatbelts, folks, this is already a bumpy election!Unbelievably, Donald Trump got ready for Halloween yesterday by donning an orange garbage man's vest and stumbling toward the Oval Office as he opened the door of a shiny new garbage truck bearing a Trump logo and climbed into the cab.The symbolism is now a garbage truck instead of a cattle car, but you get the meme.?The people he considers inferior, 'illegals', Haitians, Puerto Ricans (who are US citizens), subhuman criminal psychotics, and "the enemy within" (labeled Democrats, socialists, Marxists, and/or fascists) will be swept up and housed in FEMA pens before being subjected to mass deportation.We've tried mass deportations before to relocate unwanted, 'inferior' human beings.?It is called the Trail of Tears.You can't make up the bit about his garbage man costume.?But if this were not so serious a threat, we'd have to laugh! Meanwhile, Susan Fertig goes on to post on Facebook garbage like this: Despite the fact that this a FAKE Marx quote that's used to scare voters by labeling Kamala a "Marxist", given that her father is a noted economist and an academic scholar of Marx who can confirm that Marx never wrote that, Susan doesn't care about the truth. She's just out to trash Kamala. And to sow the seeds of distrust, fear, and hatred. As well as being the unintentional messenger of bad news. (As in "Don't shoot the messenger!")? Which, given Susan's history in the Order:Ecumenical, raises the question of WHY she's going to this extreme. Instead of trashing Susan's biased POV, I'm using her posts as a helpful example of what some of your intelligent and even somewhat 'progressive' relatives may have been led to believe and why. And mine as well! My best answer for you to comment on is this: Susan has drunk the Kool-Aid of bitterness and disappointment in the fake promises of Trumpology. For example, after 15 years of railing against Obamacare, and multiple promises to unveil a "far better and cheaper" alternative "in the next few weeks", the Repugnant Party now has, at best, "'concepts' of a plan" to replace it. In other words, to eliminate it along with any insurance for people with "pre-existing conditions." Bottom line is: "We're not going back!" I'm doing my best to empathize with the dilemma of millions of conservative white middle-class suburban female voters who are now caught between a rock and a very hard choice. They voted for Trump to get rid of Roe v. Wade (after Trump's right-wing appointees to the rogue majority in the Supreme Court vowed that it was "settled law"). Not fully realizing that they have pushed the snowball of proto-fascism down the hill that leads to female disempowerment and the replacement of the empowered female by specter of the Fake Female. No wonder 'the Susans' of the electorate are now so bitter that, by their allegiance to a fraudulent vision that they can?"make America great again"?by deporting?"the scum",?they have been forced to trash Kamala, who's embodying the empowered female! So. here's my list of the Top Ten Fake Females on the Trump Train. It's not just about their expensive hairdos, makeup, designer clothes, and cosmetic surgery. It's about their embrace of a fake image of who they really are as female human beings! 1. Melania Trump. Just look at her grifting! Her "Einstein" Visa! Her book! Her plagiarized speeches! Her fake $500 gold foil bills! Her fake marriage! Do I have to go on? She doesn't even want to resume her former role of First Lady! 2. Ivanka Trump. After Jared conned the Saudi government out of a cool two Billion bucks, Ivanka doesn't need to worry about selling her designer shoes (at 90% off!) or exploiting her 41 Chinese trademarks. She's retired to her little $41 million dollar mansion on the exclusive fortified Indian Creek Island for billionaires in Miami Bay. 3. Lara Trump. Married to Eric Trump and formerly with Fox News, she's now running the Trump campaign and the Republican National Committee, such as it is, while using the big bucks from billionaires to pay Donald's legal expenses, etc. 4. Kimberly Guilfoyle. This amazing example of duplicity jumped the shark when she leapt from Gavin Newsom's marital bed to Donald Trump Jr.'s loveseat, by way of modeling for Victoria's Secret and lying for Fox News. She was also a Kamala rival in the San Francisco D.A.'s office. Back in the day. 5. Alina Habba. Never won a case for Trump. But that doesn't matter as long as she can stand to stand by her Donald and spew her legal garbage for big bucks. She's put the Bed in Bedminster, so to speak. To latch on to Donald Trump. Otherwise, she a parking garage kind of lawyer whose second husband owns a parking garage. And she's the daughter of Iraqi immigrants. You know, the good kind. 6. Kristi Noem. Current South Dakota Repugnant governor who infamously executed her dog Cricket as well as a goat in a gravel pit. Plus three horses. Hopefully she didn't eat them. 7. Jenna Ellis. Her Colorado law license was suspended after she was indicted for racketeering and participating in a criminal enterprise furthering Donald Trump's attempts to overturn the 2020 election as a member of Trump's "elite strike force team" after she agreed to cooperate with Arizona prosecutors. Another Fake Female attorney with no professional integrity who's been Trumped and dumped. 8. Nikki Haley. She should be ashamed that she doesn't have the guts to endorse Kamala outright. Because she's protecting her options as a post-Trump Repugnant politician. 9. Tulsi Gabbard. A former Democratic congresswoman and vice chair of the DNC. She endorsed Bernie in 2016. ?What more can I say? Jumped the shark? 10. Stormy Daniels. I've got nothing against Stormy, 'cause she's using her physical assets as well as her brain to bring in some bucks. Out of necessity to support her family. So she couldn't say No to Donald Trump, even though she may now regret that move. But Trump made her bigly famous, so now she's on his list of Fake Females. Not exactly an exemplar of ?profound humanness. But at least she's honest about what she's puts out for pay. Stay tuned for the Grand Finale next Tuesday. Or for as long as it takes to sort out whatever the results turn out to be! And don't forget to vote if you are eligible to do so. Marshall Jones?? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 0001c.webp Type: image/webp Size: 26440 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Screenshot 2024-10-31 at 10.00.31?AM.png Type: image/png Size: 2437070 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ruthhgilbert at gmail.com Thu Oct 31 14:18:58 2024 From: ruthhgilbert at gmail.com (Ruth Gilbert) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2024 14:18:58 -0700 Subject: [Oe List ...] help? Message-ID: I?ve lost the information for contacting Eileen Howard. Can some one help? We just moved to Washington State and have heard of Justin?s death. It is possible we could attend the memorial. Would like to be in touch. Ruth Gilbert From saf1220 at gmail.com Thu Oct 31 14:57:54 2024 From: saf1220 at gmail.com (Sharon Fisher) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2024 14:57:54 -0700 Subject: [Oe List ...] help? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ruth, I'll send you the info in an email. It is here, too, on the listserve. -Sharon On Thu, Oct 31, 2024 at 2:19?PM Ruth Gilbert via OE wrote: > I?ve lost the information for contacting Eileen Howard. > Can some one help? > > We just moved to Washington State and have heard of Justin?s death. > It is possible we could attend the memorial. > Would like to be in touch. > > Ruth Gilbert > _______________________________________________ > OE mailing list > OE at lists.wedgeblade.net > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > -- saf1220 at gmail.com c: 503.807.7385 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elizabeth at ehcaperton.com Thu Oct 31 18:19:08 2024 From: elizabeth at ehcaperton.com (Elizabeth Caperton) Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2024 01:19:08 +0000 Subject: [Oe List ...] Morrill information In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4788E707-56B3-4989-9C0A-B8468BADC702@ehcaperton.com> Del?s address is 7290 Rosemount Circle, Apt 112 Tacoma 98465 Dear friends, A memorial service for Justin Morrill will be held on Friday, November 8 at 1:00 pm at Mason United Methodist Church located at 2710 N Madison St, Tacoma, WA 98407 Donations in lieu of flowers may be made to Northwest Sinfonietta (https://nwsinfonietta.org/support-nws ) or to Community Health Care (https://www.commhealth.org/donate/). Questions - please text or call Eileen Howard 614-214-4030 or email eileenmhoward at icloud.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From saf1220 at gmail.com Thu Oct 31 22:35:28 2024 From: saf1220 at gmail.com (Sharon Fisher) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2024 22:35:28 -0700 Subject: [Oe List ...] Morrill information In-Reply-To: <4788E707-56B3-4989-9C0A-B8468BADC702@ehcaperton.com> References: <4788E707-56B3-4989-9C0A-B8468BADC702@ehcaperton.com> Message-ID: Thanks for sending this again, Elizabeth. On Thu, Oct 31, 2024 at 6:19?PM Elizabeth Caperton via OE < oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote: > Del?s address is > > 7290 Rosemount Circle, Apt 112 > > Tacoma 98465 > > > > Dear friends, > A memorial service for Justin Morrill will be held on Friday, November 8 > at 1:00 pm at Mason United Methodist Church located at 2710 N Madison St, > Tacoma, WA 98407 > > Donations in lieu of flowers may be made to Northwest Sinfonietta ( > https://nwsinfonietta.org/support-nws ) or to Community Health Care ( > https://www.commhealth.org/donate/). > > Questions - please text or call Eileen Howard 614-214-4030 or email > eileenmhoward at icloud.com > > _______________________________________________ > OE mailing list > OE at lists.wedgeblade.net > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > -- saf1220 at gmail.com c: 503.807.7385 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kidbigelow at gmail.com Thu Oct 31 23:03:17 2024 From: kidbigelow at gmail.com (Daniel Bigelow) Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2024 23:03:17 -0700 Subject: [Oe List ...] a bumpy election In-Reply-To: <2026294532.3409995.1730397936426@mail.yahoo.com> References: <2026294532.3409995.1730397936426.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <2026294532.3409995.1730397936426@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I should think that instead of Stormy Daniels you would include Justice Amy Coney Barrett. She's been handed real power for the rest of her life and has already proven to be far more destructive than a pornstar who broke her NDA. =Daniel Bigelow On Thu, Oct 31, 2024 at 11:06?AM W. J. via OE wrote: > Fasten your seatbelts, folks, this is already a bumpy election! > Unbelievably, Donald Trump got ready for Halloween yesterday by donning an > orange garbage man's vest and *stumbling* toward the Oval Office as he > opened the door of a shiny new garbage truck bearing a Trump logo and > climbed into the cab. > The symbolism is now a *garbage truck* instead of a *cattle car*, but you > get the meme. > The people he considers inferior, 'illegals', Haitians, Puerto Ricans (who > are US citizens), subhuman criminal psychotics, and "the enemy within" > (labeled Democrats, socialists, Marxists, and/or fascists) will be swept up > and housed in FEMA pens before being subjected to mass deportation. > We've tried mass deportations before to relocate unwanted, 'inferior' > human beings. > It is called the Trail of Tears. > You can't make up the bit about his garbage man costume. > But if this were not so serious a threat, we'd have to laugh! > > [image: Inline image] > > Meanwhile, Susan Fertig goes on to post on Facebook garbage like this: > > [image: Inline image] > > Despite the fact that this a *FAKE* Marx quote that's used to scare > voters by labeling Kamala a "Marxist", given that her father is a noted > economist and an academic scholar of Marx who can confirm that Marx never > wrote that, Susan doesn't care about the truth. > > She's just out to trash Kamala. And to sow the seeds of distrust, fear, > and hatred. > > As well as being the unintentional messenger of bad news. (As in "Don't > shoot the messenger!") > > Which, given Susan's history in the Order:Ecumenical, raises the question > of *WHY* she's going to this extreme. > > Instead of trashing Susan's biased POV, I'm using her posts as a helpful > example of what some of *your* intelligent and even somewhat > 'progressive' relatives may have been led to believe and why. And mine as > well! > > My best answer for you to comment on is this: Susan has drunk the Kool-Aid > of *bitterness and disappointment* in the *fake* promises of Trumpology. > > For example, after 15 years of railing against Obamacare, and multiple > promises to unveil a "far better and cheaper" alternative "in the next few > weeks", the Repugnant Party now has, at best, "'concepts' of a plan" to > replace it. In other words, to eliminate it along with *any* insurance > for people with "pre-existing conditions." > > Bottom line is: "We're not going back!" > > I'm doing my best to empathize with the dilemma of millions of > conservative white middle-class suburban female voters who are now caught > between a rock and a very hard choice. They voted for Trump to get rid of *Roe > v. Wade* (after Trump's right-wing appointees to the rogue majority in > the Supreme Court vowed that it was "settled law"). > > Not fully realizing that they have pushed the snowball of proto-fascism > down the hill that leads to female disempowerment and the replacement of > the empowered female by specter of the *Fake Female*. > > No wonder 'the Susans' of the electorate are now *so bitter* that, by > their allegiance to *a fraudulent vision *that they can* "make America > great again" *by deporting* "the scum"*, they have been forced to trash > Kamala, who's embodying the empowered female! > > So. here's my list of the *Top Ten Fake Females on the Trump Train. *It's > not just about their expensive hairdos, makeup, designer clothes, and > cosmetic surgery. It's about their embrace of a *fake image* of who they > really are as female human beings! > > 1. *Melania Trump*. Just look at her grifting! Her "Einstein" Visa! Her > book! Her plagiarized speeches! Her fake $500 gold foil bills! Her fake > marriage! Do I have to go on? She doesn't even want to resume her former > role of First Lady! > > 2. *Ivanka Trump*. After Jared conned the Saudi government out of a cool > two Billion bucks, Ivanka doesn't need to worry about selling her designer > shoes (at 90% off!) or exploiting her 41 Chinese trademarks. She's retired > to her little $41 million dollar mansion on the exclusive fortified Indian > Creek Island for billionaires in Miami Bay. > > 3. *Lara Trump*. Married to Eric Trump and formerly with Fox News, she's > now running the Trump campaign and the Republican National Committee, such > as it is, while using the big bucks from billionaires to pay Donald's legal > expenses, etc. > > 4. *Kimberly Guilfoyle*. This amazing example of duplicity jumped the > shark when she leapt from Gavin Newsom's marital bed to Donald Trump Jr.'s > loveseat, by way of modeling for Victoria's Secret and lying for Fox News. > She was also a Kamala rival in the San Francisco D.A.'s office. Back in the > day. > > 5. *Alina Habba*. Never won a case for Trump. But that doesn't matter as > long as she can stand to stand by her Donald and spew her legal garbage for > big bucks. She's put the Bed in Bedminster, so to speak. To latch on to > Donald Trump. Otherwise, she a parking garage kind of lawyer whose second > husband owns a parking garage. And she's the daughter of Iraqi immigrants. > You know, the good kind. > > 6. *Kristi Noem*. Current South Dakota Repugnant governor who infamously > executed her dog Cricket as well as a goat in a gravel pit. Plus three > horses. Hopefully she didn't eat them. > > 7. *Jenna Ellis*. Her Colorado law license was suspended after she was > indicted for racketeering and participating in a criminal enterprise > furthering Donald Trump's attempts to overturn the 2020 election as a > member of Trump's "elite strike force team" after she agreed to cooperate > with Arizona prosecutors. Another Fake Female attorney with no professional > integrity who's been Trumped and dumped. > > 8. *Nikki Haley*. She should be ashamed that she doesn't have the guts to > endorse Kamala outright. Because she's protecting her options as a > post-Trump Repugnant politician. > > 9. *Tulsi Gabbard*. A former Democratic congresswoman and vice chair of > the DNC. She endorsed Bernie in 2016. What more can I say? Jumped the > shark? > > 10. *Stormy Daniels*. I've got nothing against Stormy, 'cause she's using > her physical assets as well as her brain to bring in some bucks. Out of > necessity to support her family. So she couldn't say No to Donald Trump, > even though she may now regret that move. But Trump made her bigly famous, > so now she's on his list of Fake Females. Not exactly an exemplar of > profound humanness. But at least she's honest about what she's puts out > for pay. > > Stay tuned for the Grand Finale next Tuesday. Or for as long as it takes > to sort out whatever the results turn out to be! > > And don't forget to vote if you are eligible to do so. > > Marshall Jones > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > OE mailing list > OE at lists.wedgeblade.net > http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 0001c.webp Type: image/webp Size: 26440 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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