[Oe List ...] more on that Bonhoeffer movie

Sat Nov 23 14:04:57 PST 2024


> On Nov 23, 2024, at 12:08 PM, Sarah Buss via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
> 
> In case it’s relevant: I just had a v-cell treatment for macular deterioration. Time will tell the results. Sarah 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Nov 23, 2024, at 8:39 AM, James Wiegel via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Hmm, how did the song go?  "Observe and judge, the given facts, 
>> Weigh up the values . . "
>> 
>> Jim Wiegel
>> “We are all time travelers journeying into the future. But let us make that future a place we want to visit. “       Stephen Hawking
>> 
>> 
>>> On Nov 23, 2024, at 7:24 AM, W. J. via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dick, you. wrote, "go see the money..."
>>> OK, so show me the money!
>>> Seriously, I probably will catch the flick eventually. And I certainly want to.
>>> But I'm going for my fifth eye surgery on Monday, so I won't be seeing too well in the immediate future.
>>> Bonhoeffer will just have to wait on my bucket list.
>>> So far I'm just reporting that all of the world's Bonhoeffer scholars are up in arms about this flick, including 'emeritus' Professor John De Gruchy of South Africa (whom I do not know personally, though we have in common a collegial relationship with another 'emeritus' professor of ethics), who is a leader of the International Bonhoeffer Society: English Language Section <https://bonhoeffersociety.org/>, and a translator and editor of several Bonhoeffer books in English, including Letters and Papers from Prison.
>>> There's gotta be a reason why there's so much smoke here. Maybe an international firestorm!
>>> So Dick, why not write your own review of the film?
>>> Marshall
>>> 
>>> On Friday, November 22, 2024 at 07:47:49 PM EST, Richard Alton via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Marshal. go see the money and lead an ORID conversation with your community.. will surprise you.
>>> Dick
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Nov 22, 2024 at 5:31 PM W. J. via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>> wrote:
>>> I still haven't seen the movie, but a few of us have. Here's my response to a private email from one colleague:
>>> Marshall
>>> 
>>> D**, I'm guessing from your description that the screenplay was not the result of any in-depth study of Bonhoeffer's life or his theology. 
>>> I bet the screenwriter didn't even bother to read Eberhard Bethge's biography.
>>> What I think he did is to create a cartoon Bonhoeffer character by superimposing the skeletal outline of Bonhoeffer's life onto a thriller movie framework.
>>> Leaving out the nuances and agonizing complexities of Bonhoeffer's ethical dilemmas as a pacifist.
>>> I'm not shocked that this cartoon version of Bonhoeffer has him wishing to "tear down the institutional church." 
>>> I think the real Bonhoeffer's life was more profoundly nuanced than that kind of statement. His Life Together and The Cost of Discipleship were written while he supervised the underground seminary at Finkenwalde for students who were preparing to serve the dissenting Confessing Church that opposed the official German Church coalition that embraced Hitler. 
>>> His focus on a "religionless Christianity" is a rejection of the 'smells and bells' and medieval belief system Luther inherited from Catholicism in favor of a radical immersion in the secular life of the world.
>>> And also a radical following of Jesus rather than middle class cultural norms.
>>> Something like the monastic life of seminary students at Finkenwalde. Or maybe the O:E.
>>> Although Bonhoeffer never abandoned his upper-class entitlement to a rich, privileged life. 
>>> I believe that the real Dietrich was in love with his young student Eberhard <https://spiritualfriendship.org/2014/08/08/one-more-post-on-the-gay-bonhoeffer/>, who was the beneficiary of his will.
>>> Dietrich reluctantly became engaged to marry the much younger Maria Von Wedemeyer only after her grandmother relentlessly pushed her on him and only after Eberhard got engaged to Dietrich's niece Renate.
>>> I don't get the sense that he was ever hot to make love with Maria. Perhaps their experience of 'true love' was always from an emotional distance, especially after Dietrich's arrest just three months after their announcement. There were letters and supervised visits. That's all.
>>> After both became engaged, Dietrich wrote to Eberhard, imagining that 
>>> Now, we can resume our partnership, and we can travel together in those places where we found so much joy, and we can leave our wives back in Germany, in Berlin, or some place.
>>> In other words, they both acquired beards, and Dietrich longed to renew and pursue their spiritual friendship as 'soul mates' or whatever they decided to call it. 
>>> But Eberhard was never willing to venture below the belt (as far as we can tell).
>>> I'm not at all sure that Dietrich was ever willing to go there, much as he may have longed to do just that. He wrote in prison that he would die a virgin.
>>> But since Eberhard's whole life was about Dietrich--especially as his martyred mentor and forever lost lover--how hard is it to understand the depth of his love in return?
>>> At least that's my version of Bonhoeffer. Now I'll have to see the damn movie!
>>> Marshall
>>> 
>>> Dietrich Bonhoeffer Was Flamingly Gay-- Deal With It <https://www.patheos.com/blogs/frankschaeffer/2014/06/dietrich-bonhoeffer-was-flamingly-gay-deal-with-it/>
>>> Links in the message (1)
>>> 		
>>> One More Post on the “Gay” Bonhoeffer
>>>  <https://spiritualfriendship.org/2014/08/08/one-more-post-on-the-gay-bonhoeffer/>		
>>> Dietrich Bonhoeffer Was Flamingly Gay--...
>>>  <https://www.patheos.com/blogs/frankschaeffer/2014/06/dietrich-bonhoeffer-was-flamingly-gay-deal-with-it/>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OE mailing list
>>> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE at lists.wedgeblade.net>
>>> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Richard H. T. Alton
>>> ICA Global Fund
>>> The Last Chapter
>>> United Methodist Net Zero
>>> T: 773.344.7172
>>> richard.alton at gmail.com <mailto:richard.alton at gmail.com>
>>> Make Plain the Vision, Habakkuh 2:2
>>> Won't you be my neighbor?
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OE mailing list
>>> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:OE at lists.wedgeblade.net>
>>> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OE mailing list
>>> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net
>>> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
>> _______________________________________________
>> OE mailing list
>> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net
>> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net
> _______________________________________________
> OE mailing list
> OE at lists.wedgeblade.net
> http://lists.wedgeblade.net/listinfo.cgi/oe-wedgeblade.net

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.wedgeblade.net/pipermail/oe-wedgeblade.net/attachments/20241123/250a3df4/attachment.htm>