[Oe List ...] Our Future --- as it so happens . . .

Tue Jul 23 02:29:33 PDT 2024

Helpful to see this not as ‘who’s right,’ but – as stated – different perceptions.  Assuming everyone does – or should – see things the same is a bit illusory as well as dangerous.  That said, assuming that all the West or all the Global South agree internally is also a bit overreaching.  Trends are there, but are more complex than simple.  

FWIW

Bill Schlesinger

Project Vida

www.pvida.net

3607 Rivera Avenue

El Paso TX 79905

(915) 465-1191 Ext. 207

(915) 490-6148 Cell

From: OE <oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net> On Behalf Of Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2024 3:05 AM
To: James Wiegel <jfwiegel at yahoo.com>
Cc: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby at yahoo.com>; Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Our Future --- as it so happens . . .

Dear Jim, this is my bid to elaborate on the gaps

THE PERCEPTION GAP BETWEEN THE WEST AND THE SOUTH

Walden Bello’s article “Crisis of the West, Opportunity for the Rest?” that Elsa forwarded is a good context for understanding the gaps in how the West and the Global South perceives the world. At one time, this would not even have been an issue. Gaps in perception? Could the “Global South” even have a perception independent of the West?

But as Walden explains, with the unravelling of the global hegemony of the US and its allies, the liberal “rules-based” order has lost its legitimacy, and many countries recognize it as a system designed to keep them down.

ISRAEL: The article describes the US, in its relations with Israel, as “reduced to a dog being wagged by the Zionist tail”. For non-Westerners, the racism that drives Israeli leaders is not surprising. But they puzzle over the readiness of the US to get involved in what is clearly another country’s genocidal mission to broaden its territory. Why do they do that? And it’s interesting that American  youth seem to have a different take.

RUSSIA & UKRAINE: Russia is shown as going after Ukraine to compensate for the pain of having seen the Soviet Union collapse. The US, its European allies and Nato are presented as saviours. But in the South, it’s seen as America’s proxy war against Russia with Ukraine as its pawn. The US regime change tactics that ousted President Viktor Yanukovych a decade ago, the use of Nato membership as a bait for Zelensky, and the pressure on him to withdraw from peace talks with Russia are not  forgotten. The US, not Russia, is seen as the mastermind willing to shed Ukrainian blood to further its ends. 

Attempts to get nations in the South to condemn Russia are mainly unsuccessful and seen as a bid to boost the anti-Russia strategy. US appeals for international law against the invasion of a sovereign nation to be honoured ring hollow compared to US invasions over the years.

CHINA: In this unravelling, the rise of China, the world’s largest economy, plays an important part. The US hopes and believes it can contain it. Nations in the South know this drives the foreign relations of the US and are unlikely to be taken in by anti-China narratives. They welcome China’s rise as it has given them an economic boost. At the same time, especially in Asean and India, there is worry over China’s growing appetite for broadening its borders. 

On Monday, 22 July 2024 at 01:18:24 pm GMT+8, James Wiegel <jfwiegel at yahoo.com <mailto:jfwiegel at yahoo.com> > wrote: 

Thanks, Ed; thanks, Dharma.

Local government and local community, whether bioregion or neighborhood or even intentional communities -- there seems to be an instinctive realization that that is important though how??

I did not know about Estonia--or maybe heard of it and forgot.  Would it be correct to assume they made a signficant investment in technology to do that?  Does most everyone there have online access??

To Dharma's point, at least in the US, I feel so self-obsessed with what is going on here that there is little room in my consciousness to think seriously of all the innovations elsewhere.  Dharma, can you describe a bit the gap you see between "the west". And the "global south"??  And the places you mentioned --Russia, Israel, Ukraine, China.  There is a lot of talk in Herman's study group about recovering indigenous world views and insights re:  governance.

Jim Wiegel

“We are all time travelers journeying into the future. But let us make that future a place we want to visit. “       Stephen Hawking

On Jul 21, 2024, at 10:12 PM, Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby at yahoo.com <mailto:dvinasithamby at yahoo.com> > wrote:

Hi Jim,

Related to your question about what innovations, shifts or changes would be needed, I (probably like many of you) am aware of the growing gap in world view between the “West” and the “Global South” in recent years. I see this particularly in Western perceptions of and attitudes to specific nations – Russia, Israel, Ukraine and China, among them. My (?jaundiced) explanation is that those who run the media are eager to keep the “West” in a bubble that shapes how they see the world. For some reason, they are either unable or uninterested in doing this for those outside the West. 

Identifying these gaps and trying to figure out what causes them would help us get a grip on this gap that will surely affect how we as the world envision the future.

Dharma

On Monday, 22 July 2024 at 09:25:59 am GMT+8, James Wiegel via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net <mailto:oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> > wrote: 

Some of you may remember Herman Greene.  I am involved in a "study group" with him and several dozen others looking into what kind of governance we need moving forward in this century with all that it holds.

Just wondering what thoughts any of you might have about what improvements, innovations, shifts or changes in governance, politics, morals, leadership that might produce better outcomes for all of us?

Thanks in advance.  

Jim Wiegel

“We are all time travelers journeying into the future. But let us make that future a place we want to visit. “       Stephen Hawking

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