[Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Stoicism

Fri Jan 21 12:40:18 PST 2022

We studied Michael Dowd's books at the church from which we retired, have been to several of his seminars with his wife Connie Barlow and hosted them for an event at our church in 2009.  That was when he and his wife were travelling "evolutionary evangelists" and living out of van with a "Christian fish symbol and Darwin Fish symbol kissing each other" bumper sticker on the side of the van. He and his work continue to evolve.
Ellie elliestock at aol.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
To: Milan Hamilton via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
Cc: Jim <wtw0bl at new.rr.com>
Sent: Fri, Jan 21, 2022 9:47 am
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Stoicism

 I, too, have found Micheal Dowd's "Post-doom" series to be both helpful and inspiring.  I have tried answering some of the questions he asks his guests such as: What are you known for? What are you passionate about? What are you concerned about?  What was your world view growing up?  His mantra is: Grief, Grounding and Gratitude.  One of his mentors is William Catton whom he often quotes.  He reads meaningful books like Overshoot which can be downloaded from youtube.com using RealPlayer.  Dowd is an ordained minister.  He is a Pro-Future Evangelist. ProFuture Faith. Jim Baumbach
  On 1/21/2022 12:49 AM, Milan Hamilton via OE wrote:

 I majored in philosophy also and especially Studied Kierkegaard with one of the preeminent American teachers of SK, But can’t say I got much beyond the surface until RS-1. I do think there was more depth to Stoicism as a philosophy than hearing the word elicits in our psyche. But as to offering a way into the question Dharma is raising, I would suggest reading Jem Bendell’s Deep Adaptation paper and if interested getting into the conversation on the Deep Adaptation Forum; secondly, Michael Dowd’s “Post Doom” series of 78 fifty minute interviews on You Tube with all sorts of climate scientists and writers, as well as some of his own videos; third, check out Joanna Macy’s “The Work that Reconnects.” These are some resources we have found helpful to avoid getting stuck in one or more of the philosophy rabbit holes,Stoicism being only one of them. Humbly, Milan H.

 Sent from my iPad 

On Jan 20, 2022, at 10:20 PM, Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

     Thanks everyone for your responses. Some of these touched on what is happening to our planet, which is also what triggered my question.  It is clear that we have pushed our biosphere over the tipping point into a trajectory that will bring mass extinctions, perhaps even that of our species, in its wake. Whatever we do cannot change this, at least till after several decades. So whatever good we do, we won’t be around to see its result. So the question for me is what does it mean to say Yes to life in this situation and to live out of that stance. To use a metaphor, if we are led to the gallows, can we approach it saying Yes to what our life has been and what is going happen? By “can we”, I mean how do we generate the courage and spirit for this.  A related question, how do we tell others what is in store truthfully and yet not leave them without hope or drive?  If we live like this, could it be described (in a positive way) as Stoicism? I remember we seemed to have reservations about this during our RS1 courses. But I’m not sure whether they were about the popular understanding of Stoicism, as Karen illustrates in her email, or something deeper in that philosophy.  
  Dharma 

      On Friday, 21 January 2022, 11:17:28 am MYT, James Wiegel via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:  

       Does anyone recall (have notes on) the lecture introductions from RS-1?  They were quick and insightful, and I don't find anything in our archives on them . . .  
  One intro, maybe on Saturday afternoon -- would have been an intro to the freedom lecture / section / holy spirit / life style was a series of little triangles . . .  
  Everyone lives out of some sense of their final reality What am I upagainst in life?  what is my situation? and they have "A word" that releases them -- gives me the capacity to live and a life style that comes out of that 
  Anyway, I think one of them was the final reality is bad, and the word was just survive, and the life style was the stoic 
  I don't quite remember the other ones . . . and the one course I had on philosophy did not emphasize the stoics. 

   Jim Wiegel  
     The unknown is what is.  And to be frightened of it is what sends everybody scurrying around chasing dreams, illusions, wars, peace, love, hate, all that.  Unknown is what is.  Accept that it's unknown, and it's plain sailing.    John Lennon 
  401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353 623-363-3277 jfwiegel at yahoo.com www.partnersinparticipation.com    

       On Thursday, January 20, 2022, 07:54:09 PM MST, Karenbueno via Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:  

       Stoic: I'm fine.  
  Me: Are you telling the truth? Stoic: Well, even if I hurt, what can I do.  I will just bear it. Me: Have you tried what the doctor advised? Stoic: Oh, I probably will soon.  Stop worrying about me.  I'm fine. 
  Another day-- Stoic: I don't see how we need to worry about climate change.  It will destroy us and the rest of life on the planet soon. Me: But shouldn't we do a few actions that might help. Stoic:  Oh, we are too far gone.  The oceans are rising, the ice is about gone.  We might as well just enjoy the life we have. Me: but what about our kids and grandkids and their kids? Stoic:  Look.  We are human.  The planet it too far gone.  We may as well just accept it. 
  Another day-- Stoic: Well, I think we have gone as far as we can to abolish racism in the United States. Me: I think there is still a lot of suffering from racism.  I think we should find some way to pay reparations. Stoic: You pay for it.  I have some other things I want to do with our money. 
  Another day-- Me: Did you hear about how the Wisconsin government is giving back some of their land to the Indians? Stoic: Oh for Pete Sake.  That war is long over, and we are getting along fine. 
  Another day-- Stoic: Listen to those shovels!  They are finishing my work! Me: No, honey, they are digging your grave. 
  Another day-- Me: They say that faith is belief in things not seen. Stoic: Ha.  Sounds pretty magic to me! Me: But if you trust that the creative power of God is in charge, you can have hope that the future is open, and we can act! Stoic: Naptime now. 

  Karen Bueno

  -----Original Message-----
 From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
 To: OE Listserve <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>; Dialogue List <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
 Cc: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby<dvinasithamby at yahoo.com>
 Sent: Thu, Jan 20, 2022 5:27 pm
 Subject: [Dialogue] Stoicism

      Dear colleagues,

  I need help with an idea I’m trying to sort out. If you have the time and inclination, I would love to hear from you on the following: 

  Saying Yes to life and Stoicism. Stoicism seems to be understood as a relationship to life where you keep going on despite the odds. There is also an inuendo that this may not be humanly possible and that internal pressures will eventually cause the person to crash. What I want to know is, was that the Stoicism that Zeno founded or merely a degraded understanding? Why did we as an Order cast it in a negative light? What was our beef with it? Was it a reaction to the degraded form or were we looking at it in its original sense? 
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