[Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Stoicism

Jim wtw0bl at new.rr.com
Fri Jan 21 07:47:35 PST 2022 

I, too, have found Micheal Dowd's "Post-doom" series to be both helpful 
and inspiring.  I have tried answering some of the questions he asks his 
guests such as: What are you known for? What are you passionate about? 
What are you concerned about?  What was your world view growing up?  His 
mantra is: Grief, Grounding and Gratitude.  One of his mentors is 
William Catton whom he often quotes.  He reads meaningful books like 
_Overshoot_ which can be downloaded from youtube.com using RealPlayer.  
Dowd is an ordained minister.  He is a Pro-Future Evangelist. ProFuture 
Faith.

Jim Baumbach

On 1/21/2022 12:49 AM, Milan Hamilton via OE wrote:
> I majored in philosophy also and especially Studied Kierkegaard with 
> one of the preeminent American teachers of SK, But can’t say I got 
> much beyond the surface until RS-1. I do think there was more depth to 
> Stoicism as a philosophy than hearing the word elicits in our psyche. 
> But as to offering a way into the question Dharma is raising, I would 
> suggest reading Jem Bendell’s Deep Adaptation paper and if interested 
> getting into the conversation on the Deep Adaptation Forum; secondly, 
> Michael Dowd’s “Post Doom” series of 78 fifty minute interviews on You 
> Tube with all sorts of climate scientists and writers, as well as some 
> of his own videos; third, check out Joanna Macy’s “The Work that 
> Reconnects.” These are some resources we have found helpful to avoid 
> getting stuck in one or more of the philosophy rabbit holes,Stoicism 
> being only one of them.
> Humbly, Milan H.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Jan 20, 2022, at 10:20 PM, Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via OE 
>> <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Thanks everyone for your responses. Some of these touched on what is 
>> happening to our planet, which is also what triggered my question.
>> It is clear that we have pushed our biosphere over the tipping point 
>> into a trajectory that will bring mass extinctions, perhaps even that 
>> of our species, in its wake. Whatever we do cannot change this, at 
>> least till after several decades. So whatever good we do, we won’t be 
>> around to see its result.
>> So the question for me is what does it mean to say Yes to life in 
>> this situation and to live out of that stance. To use a metaphor, if 
>> we are led to the gallows, can we approach it saying Yes to what our 
>> life has been and what is going happen? By “can we”, I mean how do we 
>> generate the courage and spirit for this.
>> A related question, how do we tell others what is in store truthfully 
>> and yet not leave them without hope or drive?
>> If we live like this, could it be described (in a positive way) as 
>> Stoicism? I remember we seemed to have reservations about this during 
>> our RS1 courses. But I’m not sure whether they were about the popular 
>> understanding of Stoicism, as Karen illustrates in her email, or 
>> something deeper in that philosophy.
>>
>> Dharma
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, 21 January 2022, 11:17:28 am MYT, James Wiegel via OE 
>> <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Does anyone recall (have notes on) the lecture introductions from 
>> RS-1?  They were quick and insightful, and I don't find anything in 
>> our archives on them . . .
>>
>> One intro, maybe on Saturday afternoon -- would have been an intro to 
>> the freedom lecture / section / holy spirit / life style was a series 
>> of little triangles . . .
>>
>> Everyone lives out of some sense of their final reality What am I 
>> upagainst in life?  what is my situation?
>> and they have "A word" that releases them -- gives me the capacity to 
>> live
>> and a life style that comes out of that
>>
>> Anyway, I think one of them was the final reality is bad, and the 
>> word was just survive, and the life style was the stoic
>>
>> I don't quite remember the other ones . . . and the one course I had 
>> on philosophy did not emphasize the stoics.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jim Wiegel <http://partnersinparticipation.com/?page_id=123>
>>
>> The unknown is what is.  And to be frightened of it is what sends 
>> everybody scurrying around chasing dreams, illusions, wars, peace, 
>> love, hate, all that.  Unknown is what is.  Accept that it's unknown, 
>> and it's plain sailing. John Lennon
>>
>>
>> 401 North Beverly Way,Tolleson, Arizona 85353
>>
>> 623-363-3277
>>
>> jfwiegel at yahoo.com <mailto:marilyn.oyler at gmail.com>
>>
>> www.partnersinparticipation.com <http://www.partnersinparticipation.com/>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, January 20, 2022, 07:54:09 PM MST, Karenbueno via 
>> Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Stoic: I'm fine.
>> Me: Are you telling the truth?
>> Stoic: Well, even if I hurt, what can I do.  I will just bear it.
>> Me: Have you tried what the doctor advised?
>> Stoic: Oh, I probably will soon.  Stop worrying about me.  I'm fine.
>>
>> Another day--
>> Stoic: I don't see how we need to worry about climate change.  It 
>> will destroy us and the rest of life on the planet soon.
>> Me: But shouldn't we do a few actions that might help.
>> Stoic:  Oh, we are too far gone.  The oceans are rising, the ice is 
>> about gone.  We might as well just enjoy the life we have.
>> Me: but what about our kids and grandkids and their kids?
>> Stoic:  Look. We are human.  The planet it too far gone.  We may as 
>> well just accept it.
>>
>> Another day--
>> Stoic: Well, I think we have gone as far as we can to abolish racism 
>> in the United States.
>> Me: I think there is still a lot of suffering from racism.  I think 
>> we should find some way to pay reparations.
>> Stoic: You pay for it.  I have some other things I want to do with 
>> our money.
>>
>> Another day--
>> Me: Did you hear about how the Wisconsin government is giving back 
>> some of their land to the Indians?
>> Stoic: Oh for Pete Sake.  That war is long over, and we are getting 
>> along fine.
>>
>> Another day--
>> Stoic: Listen to those shovels!  They are finishing my work!
>> Me: No, honey, they are digging your grave.
>>
>> Another day--
>> Me: They say that faith is belief in things not seen.
>> Stoic: Ha. Sounds pretty magic to me!
>> Me: But if you trust that the creative power of God is in charge, you 
>> can have hope that the future is open, and we can act!
>> Stoic: Naptime now.
>>
>>
>>
>> Karen Bueno
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby via Dialogue 
>> <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
>> To: OE Listserve <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>; Dialogue List 
>> <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
>> Cc: Dharmalingam Vinasithamby <dvinasithamby at yahoo.com>
>> Sent: Thu, Jan 20, 2022 5:27 pm
>> Subject: [Dialogue] Stoicism
>>
>> Dear colleagues,
>>
>> I need help with an idea I’m trying to sort out. If you have the time 
>> and inclination, I would love to hear from you on the following:
>>
>> Saying Yes to life and Stoicism. Stoicism seems to be understood as a 
>> relationship to life where you keep going on despite the odds. There 
>> is also an inuendo that this may not be humanly possible and that 
>> internal pressures will eventually cause the person to crash. What I 
>> want to know is, was that the Stoicism that Zeno founded or merely a 
>> degraded understanding? Why did we as an Order cast it in a negative 
>> light? What was our beef with it? Was it a reaction to the degraded 
>> form or were we looking at it in its original sense?
>>
>> regards
>> Dharma
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