[Oe List ...] [Dialogue] Salmon: prayer reflection

Fri Sep 23 14:28:42 PDT 2016

Hi George,

Many groups, in the footsteps of Teilhard de Chardin are exploring theology/science relationship in the context of our 13.8 year universe journey--Christian, interfaith.

In the Presbyterian Church (USA), the group that has been doing this is the Presbyterian Association for Science, Technology and the Christian Faith (PASTCF).  This group helped initiate a document called "Affirmation of Creation" which was passed at our last General Assembly.  This document, as well as other resources, can be found at the PASTCF website:  www.pastcf.org 

Thomas Berry's books.

I just came across a review of a book The God Particle:  God-Talk in a "Big Bang" World, by R. Kirby Godsey, Mercer University Press, Macon GA, 112 pp.  Haven't read it, so I don't know particulars...

The Evolution Dialogues--Science, Christianity, and the Quest for Understanding, American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS--Advancing Science, Serving Society), ed. by Dr. James B. Miller

Darwin, Divinity, and the Dance of the Cosmos, an Ecological Christianity, by Bruce Sanguin

Thank God for Evolution, by Michael Dowd

Many others...

Ellie Stock
elliestock at aol.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: George Holcombe via Dialogue <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
To: ICA/OE List Serves <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>; ICA/OE List Serves <dialogue at lists.wedgeblade.net>
Sent: Thu, Sep 22, 2016 8:25 am
Subject: Re: [Dialogue] [Oe List ...] Salmon: prayer reflection

There was a time that Theology was regarded as the Queen of Science, but that lost ground when theologians began to look through telescopes and microscopes and the story of the universe began to change.  Today theology and religion seem to be caught in a time warp trying to reinterpret the past for the “sake of the future.”  Anyone know of where the science and theology community are exploring the present, and perhaps together?  Rob Work posted a thought of his from several years back on his Facebook page today that may be a starting point. "What a stunning mystery! To be a conscious living being as part of a 13.8 billion year old universe with billions of more years to create, explore and experience! Who could ever have dreamed or made this up? And with only one thing to do – love it all, moment by moment, situation by situation, being by being. But how to do that with wisdom and skillful means, that is the question, the challenge, the calling." I wrote this on FB three years ago today. Still my experience. What do you think?”

George Holcombe
14900 Yellowleaf Tr.
Austin, TX 78728
Mobile 512/252-2756
geowanda1 at me.com

"Whatever the problem, community is the answer.  There is no power greater than a community discovering what it cares about."  Margaret Wheatley

On Sep 20, 2016, at 10:24 AM, H. A. Tillinghast via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

Bill I also like the quadrilateral. I also contend the Experience is central- though everyone disagrees with me. After all, the Scripture records the experience of the biblical writers and the Tradition records the experience of the church.

Bud

On Sep 20, 2016, at 3:54 PM, William Salmon via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

Susan, et al, 
    Something to consider. The wonderful thing about our personal experiences is that we all look at the same reality, but we bring to this task a set of prescription glasses (lenses?) that colors our perception of the reality we all experience. This makes the task a personal one. 
    This is why the quadrilateral of John Wesley is helpful. Wesley believed we need to ask four questions about any task or conversation about that task: scripture, tradition, reason and experience. This provided those who use these four dynamics to be kept from being dilatants. 
    The following paragraph will explain this process: 
The phrase which has relatively recently come into use to describe the principal factors that John Wesley believed illuminate the core of the Christian faith for the believer. Wesley did not formulate the succinct statement now commonly referred to as the Wesley Quadrilateral. Building on the Anglican theological tradition, Wesley added a fourth emphasis, experience. The resulting four components or "sides" of the quadrilateral are (1) Scripture, (2) tradition, (3) reason, and (4) experience. For United Methodists, Scripture is considered the primary source and standard for Christian doctrine. Tradition is experience and the witness of development and growth of the faith through the past centuries and in many nations and cultures. Experience is the individual's understanding and appropriating of the faith in the light of his or her own life. Through reason the individual Christian brings to bear on the Christian faith discerning and cogent thought. These four elements taken together bring the individual Christian to a mature and fulfilling understanding of the Christian faith and the required response of worship and service.
(Source: A Dictionary for United Methodists, Alan K. Waltz, 
Copyright 1991, Abingdon Press. Used by Permission.)
    I like this and I use it often. It allows me to identify my personal experience, and then to measure my perceptions by the other dynamics; this keeps me from getting arrogant; the "selfy-age often strikes. 
    Weskey said that "scripture" was prime. However, there are those among us who affirm that "experience" could be prime and then supported or challenged by tradition, reason and the scriptures. 
    Thanks for sharing. 
    Bill  

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----- Original Message ----- 
From: Susan Fertig via OE
To: Isobel and Jim Bishop ; Order EcumenicalCommunity
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 10:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Listserve on prayer, 2-story universe, etc.

If we’re operating out of experience, mine is just different than yours. So, just as I’m not likely to change anybody’s mind on this listserv, none of the comments here are likely to change mine. I know what I know. I believe what I believe. 

Someone actually accused people who believe what I believe of “shallowness” and “superstition.” 
Interesting that in my church of about 3,000 congregants, some of the greatest minds in a city rife with intellect, scientific or from other disciplines, engage with God in a way you’d all probably laugh about. But of course we are all deficient intellectually in the minds of people who have dismissed this way of looking at relationship with God, and Christ, and the Holy Spirit.
Superstition is avoiding black cats and walking under ladders. It bears no resemblance to my faith.
My experience of the other world is as real as my hand in front of my face.

Susan

Susan Fertig-Dykes
(personal email account)

And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought .  Isaiah 58:11

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From: OE [mailto:oe-bounces at lists.wedgeblade.net] On Behalf Of Isobel and Jim Bishop via OE
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 10:27 PM
To: Jack Gilles <jackcgilles at gmail.com>; Order Ecumenical Community <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net>
Subject: Re: [Oe List ...] Listserve on prayer, 2-story universe, etc.

Isobel and  Jim Bishop

isobeljimbish at optusnet.com.au

Dear Folks, especially Jack, 

I too am grateful that the list serve is still ticking over!  I  have observed  over the years I have been reading this listserve- that in the summer months in the northern hemisphere- you all are quieter, and don' t  engage so much.. I have always thought to myself 

that this is because you like to be outdoors, enjoying your summer….? In the winter months when you don' t go out so much, you seem to stay by your computer more often and write pearls of wisdom….Just my observation  from  down here in Oz.

Yes, I listened to Joe's lecture and it brought back so many memories. 

I thought he described the two storey universe well. I hope that Susan found it useful. 

Nowadays I think what Joe was saying to me--  can best be described as the connectedness of ALL of life-  both at the very  centre of my life, and in the cosmos, and  in the urban, secular everyday life  of connecting with the world and all that is within it. 

… and   at  the edges too. ...the farthest reaches of the planet. I did notice that the last few words of Joe's talk included ' all of Creation itself.' This made me realise that Joe was way ahead of his time, talking about Creation….

A word about prayer…   Some time ago, on the list serve there was some reference to prayer- and Jim Weigel gave a small description of it-  as ' leaning to the good'.  I don't  know if this helps others, but it helped me at the time, and I still reflect on these 

words. I do feel that good vibes which I empathise about a situation;  can bring gentleness and calmness to a situation, be it a person, or a situation.

Enough from me from Leichhardt, an inner west suburb of Sydney. 

Jim is well-  has just had had both his caratacts renewed, and will be  87 next month. I am 80, and still very active. We do lots of walking and exercises etc., 

Our daughter Rebecca, a US citizen, will be voting again in your  Election,  I reckon. It is quite scary from this viewpoint. 

All the best to y'all,

and with grace, peace, and love, 

from   Isobel. 

On 20/09/2016, at 1:57 AM, Jack Gilles via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

There should be a request to share the ability to open. But if you see a ‘download’ arrow, do that and then download the link that allows you to listen to Goole.doc sound tracks. I couldn’t open my post as well, but I did that and it plays just fine. It opens another window with the player. I hope others find that works for them as well.

Jack

On Sep 19, 2016, at 10:54, Doris Hahn via OE <oe at lists.wedgeblade.net> wrote:

I tried to access Jack's sharing of JWM on 2-story universe, but it is locked. How do I get in?

Doris Hahn
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